John Kerry is still on a Serotta - retro cool or obsolete

[velomonkey]

John Kerry is into bikes - that was clear a while ago - the guy is still wicked thin and he still rides - I knew back in the Lance days he was on a Serotta

Seems he still is on a Serotta and rides a bike to take a break - even while tensions are high (http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-kerry-bicycle-20150318-story.html). So, retro cool or obsolete old technology?

Bonus points to the first Bush-voting, Koch brothers supporting, Duck Dynasty watching supporting conservative that says "You go John Kerry! Hate your politics, love your bike"

Bonus points to the first Clinton-loving, starbucks latte sipping, NY Times reading liberal that is like "F you Mr. Kerry, firefly is from your beloved state of Mass and your particular bike sucks."

[beeatnik]

Kudos to the first 23-year-old who has a memory of John Kerry running for President.

[Shortsocks]

I read that too. Good for him. Nice to see even with the world watching you and all that stress he can still get out on his rig and go for a ride. I mean jeez. He's in Switzerland no? What a place to ride.

[numbskull]

Interesting that one SS agent appears to ride traffic side of him. Sure to piss off motorists everywhere. That could end badly for some overly aggressive driver. :)

[OtayBW]

Three threads going at once on this topic. Mods - Is it possible to merge these? Thx.

[justinrchan]

I wonder if he packs, unpacks, and assembles the bike himself or us taxpayers have someone do it for him. Regardless, awesome he can get out for rides.

[jlwdm]

...

... So, retro cool or obsolete old technology?



Neither. A titanium Serotta is still a great bike.

Jeff

[rwsaunders]

I'm sure that two security guards on bikes are somewhat useless in preventing a perp from ruining John's day. Hopefully there is some firepower in one of the cars.

[vqdriver]

i think it's cool. that's two (administrations at least) in a row with cyclists at the top.

what's curious to me is that the secret service guys aren't in spd shoes. seems like those road cleats would be a handicap if their services are actually required.

[fuzzalow]

Interesting that one SS agent appears to ride traffic side of him. Sure to piss off motorists everywhere. That could end badly for some overly aggressive driver. :)

Naw, they're Europeans and don't have the same pent up road rage waitin' to happen on cyclists like over here yonder.

Good on Kerry for keep on keepin' on. One more reason why he's more like many of us here on Paceline and one more reason why he didn't get elected! :)

[choke]

Interesting that one SS agent appears to ride traffic side of him. FYI, the SecState's detail is from the State Dept's Bureau of Diplomatic Security rather than the Secret Service.

I'm sure that two security guards on bikes are somewhat useless in preventing a perp from ruining John's day. Hopefully there is some firepower in one of the cars.You can bet there's more than just water in that Camelbak. :)

[bikinchris]

Neither. A titanium Serotta is still a great bike.

Jeff

This^

If it still rides good, it is good. Paraphrasing Duke Ellington.

[buddybikes]

His rear derailleur mucked up and had to go to a Geneva bike shop, secret service had to first go in an scour the place then Kerry came in with his bike. Shop guy did for free, but Kerry handed him a 20. Least that is the story.

[shovelhd]

He's riding right down the middle of the lane. If this was America, he'd be roadkill.

[rounder]

I think it's cool that he rides a serotta. I am not a Kerry fan. But with all his money, he could ride the latest and the greatest. Instead, he rides a cool bike they do not even make anymore.

[bcgav]

Not USSS, they're DSS (http://www.state.gov/m/ds/) (Diplomatic Security Service) & DSS MSD (DSS Mobile Security Deployment) Special Agents (edit: as Choke mentioned). I'd also venture to guess there's more than energy bars, spare tubes, a hydration bladder, and a patch kit in the Camelbak...

Not a fan but admire his passion for the sport.

[FL_MarkD]

Yeah, just like the rest of us Serotta owners. Well except for the extra $200 million in net worth, but who's counting.

[Elefantino]

With no S&S couplers on his Ottrott he must pay exorbitant excess baggage fees to jet around with his bike.

[velotrack]

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/06/13/sports/playmagazine/theclimb_kerry.531.jpg

[93legendti]

Yeah, just like the rest of us Serotta owners. Well except for the extra $200 million in net worth, but who's counting.

Worked in politics his entire adult life...no private sector jobs...

[fuzzalow]

Yeah, just like the rest of us Serotta owners. Well except for the extra $200 million in net worth, but who's counting.

God bless him, JFK certainly married up in life to the lovely Theresa Heinz. Gotta love their 57 varieties of who-knows-what (condiments?) but the ketchup franchise was all one could ever need. FWIW I think the Heinz family has long since divested their ownership of their surnamed company. Dunno what his net worth is.

Kerry must take that bike everywhere, what's not to like when you just wheel it down the aisle of the United States Department of State jet and lean it up next to a file cabinet.

[bobswire]

Worked in politics his entire adult life...no private sector jobs...

Public servant most of his adult life including military service but the vast majority of Kerry’s holdings are part of three trusts linked with his wife Teresa Heinz-Kerry’s family fortune. In fact I has some ketchup with fries today as well as rode on a Serotta so I had something in common with him today besides my politics. :)

[Seramount]

With no S&S couplers on his Ottrott he must pay exorbitant excess baggage fees to jet around with his bike.

srsly, you really think he flies commercial...?

[goonster]

Worked in politics his entire adult life...no private sector jobs...
Enlistment in the military, combat service . . . not what I'd call "politics".

C'mon, the (inherited) wealth (of his wife) is pretty much the least controversial thing about the guy.

[Ti Designs]

I wonder if he packs, unpacks, and assembles the bike himself

No, he has a shop do it for him, like most people who travel with their bikes.

He bought that bike at Wheelworks (or as we called it, Bike Shop One, when he was running for president). He had a little crash in Concord when he was running for office, he came back to the shop, stood in line at the service counter and waited like any other customer. I remember this 'cause I was at the front stand replacing the drop-out tab for one of my racers. I heard "Is this where we stand for repair work?"

[Dead Man]

Hmm... is he relevant?

[Mr. Pink]

I'd love to have a list of those shops. Seriously. I started a thread about that a year or so ago. I'd love to have a list of shops around the world I could just walk into and hand them a case and my bike and a solid fee for the service. Betcha he knows more than a few, considering his day job.

[rwsaunders]

Worked in politics his entire adult life...no private sector jobs...

On his second venture down the aisle, Kerry married Teresa Heinz...her first husband was one of the heirs to the Heinz empire, as in pickles and ketchup. Kerry didn't need a private sector job to be worth $200MM.

[Shortsocks]

No, he has a shop do it for him, like most people who travel with their bikes.

He bought that bike at Wheelworks (or as we called it, Bike Shop One, when he was running for president). He had a little crash in Concord when he was running for office, he came back to the shop, stood in line at the service counter and waited like any other customer. I remember this 'cause I was at the front stand replacing the drop-out tab for one of my racers. I heard "Is this where we stand for repair work?"

This is a great story. I just read this aloud to the wife and folks at be dinner table. Thanks for sharing.

What happened to the rest of the story? Was he nice? What was wrong with his rig?

[fogrider]

Not USSS, they're DSS (http://www.state.gov/m/ds/) (Diplomatic Security Service) & DSS MSD (DSS Mobile Security Deployment) Special Agents (edit: as Choke mentioned). I'd also venture to guess there's more than energy bars, spare tubes, a hydration bladder, and a patch kit in the Camelbak...

Not a fan but admire his passion for the sport.

I was not a fan of Kerry running for potus, but sec of state, I think is the perfect job for him!

diplomatics with guns = spies.

my legend ti is one of my best riding bikes...to bad he doesn't ride campy!

[Llewellyn]

Both our Prime Minister and Defence Minister are keen cyclists, and the PM is always up for a photo op of himself riding in the lycra. Unfortunately he also has a penchant for wearing budgie smugglers :mad:

[Elefantino]

srsly, you really think he flies commercial...?
Tongue ... meet cheek.

[CPP]

I'm sure more than one of us here would like to have his quads.

[benito]

https://www.smartlivingnetwork.com/uploads/20140312125313giphy.gif

[christian]

For a custom bike of that size, you might be able to equal a Legend, but I don't think you can surpass one. And it was made in the USA which I am sure appeals to him.

I think it remains a good choice. I am pretty keen on bikes and if I were in his shoes, I'd keep riding it. (Campy SR11 and Bora 50s, natch.)

[msl819]

Politics aside... Of this or any other administration, I apprecitate that they get out and ride. I would have to believe the job comes with stressors that many of us don't know and can't imagine. Getting out for a ride in the midst of tense conversations has to help. They are people too and if they enjoy exercise, cycling I'm this case, and allow its positive benefits to help them in life and in their work, I think it is cool. Bonus points from me for the fact that he is not on some clown bike for publicity pictures. He seems to be a real rider.

[Ti Designs]

What happened to the rest of the story? Was he nice? What was wrong with his rig?

He got his handlebars replaced because of the crash. There's a wide range of customers, from the guy who wants service two minutes before he walks in the door to the kind of guy we invite back into the workroom to explain what we're doing. John felt a bit out of place in the workroom, but he wound up joking about being tall and clumsy with Carlos, the mechanic who worked on his bike, who is anything but tall and clumsy.

I've run into him in the bike shop about a dozen times. The scheduled visits are always kinda tense, guys in expensive suits checking out our garbage cans... When he comes in with the bike he's just a cyclist - a very tall one. He often wears a PMC jersey and gets into conversations with other customers about doing that ride.

[Cornfed]

I'd love to have a list of those shops. Seriously. I started a thread about that a year or so ago. I'd love to have a list of shops around the world I could just walk into and hand them a case and my bike and a solid fee for the service. Betcha he knows more than a few, considering his day job.

Bike Flights has a list: http://www.bikeflights.com/how_to_pack_a_bike.aspx

Haven't used them before, so can't comment on their service or accuracy, but seems like a solid concept.

[fuzzalow]

Politics aside... Of this or any other administration, I apprecitate that they get out and ride. I would have to believe the job comes with stressors that many of us don't know and can't imagine. Getting out for a ride in the midst of tense conversations has to help.

Agree. An avid bicyclist is also Hank Paulson, former Secretary of the Treasury during the time of the collapse of Lehman Brothers. It it well known that during his work on salvaging the banking system he would take occasional bike rides to clear his head.

All recounted in the Andrew Ross Sorkin book "Too Big to Fail".

[rzthomas]

Hmm... is he relevant?
Uhh, yeah? He's the SoS, after all.

[jet sanchez]

Warren Buffet bought Heinz for $23 billion last year.

[oldpotatoe]

Enlistment in the military, combat service . . . not what I'd call "politics".

C'mon, the (inherited) wealth (of his wife) is pretty much the least controversial thing about the guy.

Commissioned Naval Officer, no 'enlistment' per say, small point but...

[SpokeValley]

Neither. A titanium Serotta is still a great bike.

Jeff

Ditto.

Cool for sure, retro...not yet.

I love mine and it's just a damned fine bike. He has excellent taste...at least in bikes.

[SpokeValley]

Both our Prime Minister and Defence Minister are keen cyclists, and the PM is always up for a photo op of himself riding in the lycra. Unfortunately he also has a penchant for wearing budgie smugglers :mad:

:)

[SpokeValley]

Worked in politics his entire adult life...no private sector jobs...

Nothing like marrying into financial security...

[93legendti]

Public servant most of his adult life including military service but the vast majority of Kerry’s holdings are part of three trusts linked with his wife Teresa Heinz-Kerry’s family fortune. In fact I has some ketchup with fries today as well as rode on a Serotta so I had something in common with him today besides my politics. :)

She's worth a billion...numbers do not add up..

[93legendti]

On his second venture down the aisle, Kerry married Teresa Heinz...her first husband was one of the heirs to the Heinz empire, as in pickles and ketchup. Kerry didn't need a private sector job to be worth $200MM.

Right, but she is worth a billion...again, numbers don't add up that he got his money (20% of what his wife is worth) solely thru marriage...

Anyway, glad to see America has gotten over vilifying the rich. ;)

[Dead Man]

Right, but she is worth a billion...again, numbers don't add up that he got his money (20% of what his wife is worth) solely thru marriage...

Anyway, glad to see America has gotten over vilifying the rich. ;)

It's called crime.

[Ralph]

It's called crime.

You know this how?

[Dead Man]

You know this how?

He's a politician.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/787/356/d6f.jpg

[PQJ]

Geez. Disagree with his politics all you want but have a little respect for his service to the nation and his appreciation of the sport most of us love and a bike brand most of us can appreciate. When did fundamental human decency become so passé?

[MadRocketSci]

old technology? they're just tubes connected to each other in a double triangle configuration....how had this old technology dis-enabled us to do something we weren't able to do before?

[fuzzalow]

Geez. Disagree with his politics all you want but have a little respect for his service to the nation and his appreciation of the sport most of us love and a bike brand most of us can appreciate. When did fundamental human decency become so passé?

Agreed. The more insignificant and invisible in society never pass up the rashness to become noticed in criticizing those that try to achieve, or have achieved. Self restraint is anathema when the conceit is high but the intellect is low.

[cloudguy]

When did fundamental human decency become so passé?

It came with the internet - we get to here everyone's bile-ridden thoughts that otherwise tend to be appropriately suppressed in face-to-face communication.

[Ralph]

He's a politician.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/787/356/d6f.jpg

I don't think most politicians are criminals. I just think that's what a lot of people say about them before thinking about where is the proof.

It's not that difficult to accumulate a couple hundred million net worth over a 30-50 year period, especially if you started with a few million. I don't necessarily always agree with his politics either, but I think he's representing his President well, and I appreciate seeing any politician out advancing our sport, and I also think he's pretty smart. Guess some would think higher of him if he was broke.

[Dead Man]

I don't necessarily always agree with his politics either,

I do not disagree with his politics, I just think he's a criminal. This chart represents what I know, and care, about his politics:

http://maaw.info/images/BlankGraph.gif

This chart represents how much I think he, or any of our opinions about him, matter in the world:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/stripgenerator/strip/76/39/05/00/00/full.png

:p

[Dead Man]

I guess I do know something about his politics. I actually went to a rally in downtown Portland when he was running for president. I had to, for a PS class I was taking (gen ed for my degree - I didn't study PS). He talked about his position on abortion. I paraphrase: I am Catholic, so I don't personally believe in abortion. But I won't let my personal religious feelings on the matter determine my public policy. Applause and cheers.

What I took from this was "I don't actually use my own ethical foundation to make ethical decisions." So what do you use, then?

[OtayBW]

I've run into him in the bike shop about a dozen times. The scheduled visits are always kinda tense, guys in expensive suits checking out our garbage cans... When he comes in with the bike he's just a cyclist - a very tall one. He often wears a PMC jersey and gets into conversations with other customers about doing that ride.
I ran into Kerry in a bike shop in Worcester early when he was running for prez. No real entourage; just an admin type. He actually introduced himself and we talked a bit. Nice guy.

[Ray]

I guess I do know something about his politics. I actually went to a rally in downtown Portland when he was running for president. I had to, for a PS class I was taking (gen ed for my degree - I didn't study PS). He talked about his position on abortion. I paraphrase: I am Catholic, so I don't personally believe in abortion. But I won't let my personal religious feelings on the matter determine my public policy. Applause and cheers.

What I took from this was "I don't actually use my own ethical foundation to make ethical decisions." So what do you use, then?

Maybe it means "I have religious beliefs that guide my life decisions, but I respect the separation of church and state and don't believe I should impose my religious beliefs on others". I don't know - just another possible interpretation...

-Ray

[Dead Man]

Maybe it means "I have religious beliefs that guide my life decisions, but I respect the separation of church and state and don't believe I should impose my religious beliefs on others". I don't know - just another possible interpretation...

-Ray

Yes; we know that's what he was shooting for, and hoping we'd happily swallow. Yet the question remains.

[oldpotatoe]

I guess I do know something about his politics. I actually went to a rally in downtown Portland when he was running for president. I had to, for a PS class I was taking (gen ed for my degree - I didn't study PS). He talked about his position on abortion. I paraphrase: I am Catholic, so I don't personally believe in abortion. But I won't let my personal religious feelings on the matter determine my public policy. Applause and cheers.

What I took from this was "I don't actually use my own ethical foundation to make ethical decisions." So what do you use, then?

Sounds like to me, "I won't shove my ethics down your throat". 'Criminal', cuz he married well?

[Ray]

Yes; we know that's what he was shooting for, and hoping we'd happily swallow. Yet the question remains.
I'm proposing that it's not just "what he was shooting for" and "hoping we'd happily swallow", but a strongly held position of how to govern. I have strongly held personal beliefs that inform how I live my own life but I strongly do NOT believe they should be forced on anyone else. In the extremely remote chance that I ever found myself running for public office, I'd make that very clear. So I don't have any problem assuming that's exactly what he was doing when you heard him speak...

None of which has anything to do with him riding in Switzerland and what kind of rider he is.

-Ray

[Corso]

My Kerry Story: I was riding the PanMass Challenge several years back. Roughly 190 miles for a 2 day ride. Day 1: Senator Kerry was riding with a bunch of Pan mass dignitaries, my gang spoke to them at a big rest stop, then we headed out before them. They had dismounting to talk to the news crews.

hours latter, as my group rolls across finish line, the senator walks his bike out from behind the finish area, all showered and changed, waving to the crowd, saying “great ride today, good ride, great day…". My group looked at each other, and were “when the hell did he pass us?” His group was too well recognized to go by us without notice. Yes, 4,000 riders, but you could NOT miss this group.

His driver walks over, take the bike from Mr Kerry, and rolls it behind a building, where the blackout Surburban was parked. A completely empty parking lot, yards away from thousands of folks…I follow him, (I wanted a closer look at his bike) so it’s just me and Driver.

As he lifts the bike to the roof rack, I ask “So how many time have you done that today?”…he laughed, and says “The Senator is a very busy man”.

I ask, “So he’s not riding day 2?” Driver smiled, “The Senator is a very busy man”.

“well, how far did he ride today?”

“The Senator is a very busy man”

My memory may be clouding some details, but man, to get a lift during a charity ride didn’t sit right with me…although Driver didn’t say that, his face did, wink wink.

Some time latter, I saw him play at a Celebrity Boston Bruins game. I must admit, the Senator could play! Skated very well, looked good on the ice, very smooth.

Both events were for Charity. So that a good thing.

[Dead Man]

I'm proposing that it's not just "what he was shooting for" and "hoping we'd happily swallow", but a strongly held position of how to govern. I have strongly held personal beliefs that inform how I live my own life but I strongly do NOT believe they should be forced on anyone else. In the extremely remote chance that I ever found myself running for public office, I'd make that very clear. So I don't have any problem assuming that's exactly what he was doing when you heard him speak...

None of which has anything to do with him riding in Switzerland and what kind of rider he is.

-Ray

That's cool. But the question remains....

Personally, if I were in a public office and had to make ethical decisions, I would have to use my ethical foundation to do so. Anything else would be sheer lunacy, probably hypocrisy. Doesn't matter what that ethical base is - you need to have some kind of moral high ground from which you can make decisions. When your conscience is screaming at you this is wrong! but you vote for it anyway.... sorry, can't ever put my stamp of approval on that.

Essentially, the answer to the questions is: I make important ethical decisions based on the opinion of my constituency and/or major donors, regardless of ethics.

And that's cool too, I guess. But it's at least a major part of why I've become absolutely politically apathetic in my 30s, and don't see any hope of that changing.

/derail

[oldpotatoe]

That's cool. But the question remains....

Personally, if I were in a public office and had to make ethical decisions, I would have to use my ethical foundation to do so. Anything else would be sheer lunacy, probably hypocrisy. Doesn't matter what that ethical base is - you need to have some kind of moral high ground from which you can make decisions. When your conscience is screaming at you this is wrong! but you vote for it anyway.... sorry, can't ever put my stamp of approval on that.

Essentially, the answer to the questions is: I make important ethical decisions based on the opinion of my constituency and/or major donors, regardless of ethics.

And that's cool too, I guess. But it's at least a major part of why I've become absolutely politically apathetic in my 30s, and don't see any hope of that changing.

/derail

You dont sound apathetic to me. Thinking they are all a bunch of crooks sounds like they tweak you pretty vigorously. If you were apathetic, you wouldn't even comment, on this stuff, imho

[slidey]

That's cool. But the question remains....

Personally, if I were in a public office and had to make ethical decisions, I would have to use my ethical foundation to do so. Anything else would be sheer lunacy, probably hypocrisy. Doesn't matter what that ethical base is - you need to have some kind of moral high ground from which you can make decisions. When your conscience is screaming at you this is wrong! but you vote for it anyway.... sorry, can't ever put my stamp of approval on that.

Essentially, the answer to the questions is: I make important ethical decisions based on the opinion of my constituency and/or major donors, regardless of ethics.

And that's cool too, I guess. But it's at least a major part of why I've become absolutely politically apathetic in my 30s, and don't see any hope of that changing.

/derail

I believe you're typing faster than you can possibly think.

1. You, or no one has any moral high ground over absolutely any human-being, who is not actively engaged in taking someone else's life. The moment you get on that moral high ground you like to step on, trust me to erode it away from underneath you (with my strongly held and obviously superior belief of facts).

2. Your religious beliefs mean jack squat when compared to mine, and vice versa. See where this leads to? That's right - nowhere. So to have the temerity to claim that a politician is to be held in contempt because he chooses not to thrust his religious beliefs on you is quite a stupid argument.

3. Try again, and this time with an iota of logical reasoning - I know you can.

[Shortsocks]

Jesus. Once again, another topic that's gone out of hand.

POLITICS HAS NO MOTHER, FATHER, BROTHER OR SISTER.

We are all brothers, who everyday dress up like superheroes, to ride our bicycles and risk our lives to do something we love. Can we please put this pity Bull*hit aside and get back to cycling.

[Shortsocks]

F*CK I hate this.

[fuzzalow]

When the legislatures gerrymander voting districts to make concentrations of voters of identical ilk, that is how we, as citizens, get illiterate government. Case in point, the flow of conversation just preceding this post.

[Saint Vitus]

We are all brothers, who everyday dress up like superheroes, to ride our bicycles and risk our lives to do something we love. Can we please put this pity Bull*hit aside and get back to cycling.

Which I did today, it was nice out a little windy but being outside and pedaling was nice. Left the Serotta and rode the Look instead only because I felt like it, nothing political about my choice either ;-)

[Bradford]

Let's calm this one down or I'll close it down.

[Ray]

...

[Mr. Pink]

My Kerry Story: I was riding the PanMass Challenge several years back. Roughly 190 miles for a 2 day ride. Day 1: Senator Kerry was riding with a bunch of Pan mass dignitaries, my gang spoke to them at a big rest stop, then we headed out before them. They had dismounting to talk to the news crews.

hours latter, as my group rolls across finish line, the senator walks his bike out from behind the finish area, all showered and changed, waving to the crowd, saying “great ride today, good ride, great day…". My group looked at each other, and were “when the hell did he pass us?” His group was too well recognized to go by us without notice. Yes, 4,000 riders, but you could NOT miss this group.

His driver walks over, take the bike from Mr Kerry, and rolls it behind a building, where the blackout Surburban was parked. A completely empty parking lot, yards away from thousands of folks…I follow him, (I wanted a closer look at his bike) so it’s just me and Driver.

As he lifts the bike to the roof rack, I ask “So how many time have you done that today?”…he laughed, and says “The Senator is a very busy man”.

I ask, “So he’s not riding day 2?” Driver smiled, “The Senator is a very busy man”.

“well, how far did he ride today?”

“The Senator is a very busy man”

My memory may be clouding some details, but man, to get a lift during a charity ride didn’t sit right with me…although Driver didn’t say that, his face did, wink wink.

Some time latter, I saw him play at a Celebrity Boston Bruins game. I must admit, the Senator could play! Skated very well, looked good on the ice, very smooth.

Both events were for Charity. So that a good thing.

So, I hope you got the point. The Senator is a very busy man.

[Bruce K]

A buddy of mine had a similar story from that same PMC.

The part you omitted Corso, was that along with the dignitaries were relays of pairs of Secret Service guys (each doing about 10-15 miles) who were riding with him as well. They were all armed and being followed by a couple of black Suburbans.

But yes, he (as we say in Boston) pulled a Rosie Ruiz!!!

BK

[Ralph]

I'm just happy to see him riding, getting cycling natioal exposure. It's hard for me to imagine how a popular Senator, Sec of State, etc.....can even pull off doing a ride. With the demands on his time, the problems of security, and the issue of him not wanting to disrupt an event any more than necesary, I don't know how it could be done differently.

And no.....neither he nor his bike is obsolete. If he is....there are lots of us in that same category LOL. Ride on!

[velomonkey]

What I took from this was "I don't actually use my own ethical foundation to make ethical decisions." So what do you use, then?

Bro . . . . for reals this is how you break it down?!?!?! Only someone who WANTS to see it that way sees it that way.

For the rest of us - it means that he is going to ensure that his religious beliefs don't supercede the bigger picture namely that of citizens to have the right to chose what they do.

Let me put it into bike terms for you - As a bike aficionado I believe hand-made, custom built frames are the best built, best riding bikes available and I personally could never, ever ride a big box store bike. As someone who loves bikes - I am just happy to see people riding on two wheels so ride whatever you got but, more importantly, get on a bike.

I can use Campy and SRAM if that helps - or grand tours and spring classics - or urban single speed hipsters and calorie-counting, watt watching road dorks - give me your poison.

[velomonkey]

Jesus. Once again, another topic that's gone out of hand.

POLITICS HAS NO MOTHER, FATHER, BROTHER OR SISTER.

We are all brothers, who everyday dress up like superheroes, to ride our bicycles and risk our lives to do something we love. Can we please put this pity Bull*hit aside and get back to cycling.

For reals, from Ti Serotta to abortion in like 2 moves :no:

[Frankwurst]

Jesus. Once again, another topic that's gone out of hand.

POLITICS HAS NO MOTHER, FATHER, BROTHER OR SISTER.

We are all brothers, who everyday dress up like superheroes, to ride our bicycles and risk our lives to do something we love. Can we please put this pity Bull*hit aside and get back to cycling.

In all my posts I don't ever think I've said or asked for a thread to be locked but please lock this one. Springs here boys and girls. Even in the land of the great chill factor. Lets go ride, break parts, ask each other questions about what would you do and put this BS behind us.:beer:

[velomonkey]

In all my posts I don't ever think I've said or asked for a thread to be locked but please lock this one. Springs here boys and girls. Even in the land of the great chill factor. Lets go ride, break parts, ask each other questions about what would you do and put this BS behind us.:beer:


Or . . . . we can show that the group is above this. Heck, I love anyone who has a say in law riding bikes. With that understood - if I am gonna nit pick - as someone who is the same height as the senator the head tube is a bit long and I cringe that someday I may ride such a long head tube.

[buddybikes]

Heard on another forum years back they were riding a pass and he pulled them up. Guy has had prostate cancer, he is 71 years old, and doing pretty well on his bike.

[Frankwurst]

Or . . . . we can show that the group is above this. Heck, I love anyone who has a say in law riding bikes. With that understood - if I am gonna nit pick - as someone who is the same height as the senator the head tube is a bit long and I cringe that someday I may ride such a long head tube.

Cringe away. I do and proud to say I've been on a bike and rode enough years to know it's necessary.:beer:

[shovelhd]

Agreed. The more insignificant and invisible in society never pass up the rashness to become noticed in criticizing those that try to achieve, or have achieved. Self restraint is anathema when the conceit is high but the intellect is low.

You're sounding awfully elistist right there.

George Bush rides a mountain bike. Do you honesty think this forum would give him the same kind of respect?

[rnhood]

Or . . . . we can show that the group is above this. Heck, I love anyone who has a say in law riding bikes. With that understood - if I am gonna nit pick - as someone who is the same height as the senator the head tube is a bit long and I cringe that someday I may ride such a long head tube.

He still runs what appears to me to be a normal amount of drop for his age (maybe 5 or 6cm). I don't think anyone likes tallish head tubes but when your height is 6'3" or more, a tall head tube beats an angled up stem.

[Ray]

You're sounding awfully elistist right there.

George Bush rides a mountain bike. Do you honesty think this forum would give him the same kind of respect?

Of course not - it's a roadie forum! Gotta have standards! :cool:

Actually, back when I was pretty active here, he was the Prez and did get respect for his mountain biking, even among those who didn't much care for his politics.

As someone who used to be a really avid cyclist but who's limited by health concerns to 5-10 miles on relatively flat ground on a sit up and beg town bike these days, I'm happy to see ANYONE the age of these guys still getting it done. I know I rode a lot during my most stressful times and know how helpful it could be in terms of stress management and even freeing up your mind (at least DURING the rides) to so some of your more creative thinking. I count all of this as good, so I was glad to see Bush and Kerry riding in those days and I'm glad to see Kerry still riding since he's still in the mix. And if Jeb or Hillary should get elected, I hope either of them finds as healthy an outlet as this to help them cope with the pressure and vast responsibilities...

-Ray

[jlwdm]

Or . . . . we can show that the group is above this. Heck, I love anyone who has a say in law riding bikes. With that understood - if I am gonna nit pick - as someone who is the same height as the senator the head tube is a bit long and I cringe that someday I may ride such a long head tube.

Head tube size is not only related to height. He may have different body proportions.

Jeff

[BumbleBeeDave]

Neither. A titanium Serotta is still a great bike.

Jeff

. . . from some years ago is that it's an Ottrott.

BBD

[fuzzalow]

You're sounding awfully elistist right there.

George Bush rides a mountain bike. Do you honesty think this forum would give him the same kind of respect?

Depending on your predispositions, even if I told you I wasn't being elitist, you may or may not believe me. I am an equal opportunity vilifier of extreme partisan political thought done at the citizen's expense of getting things done. Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill had their political differences but shared a drink at the end of the day and got on with work of governance the next day.

Honestly, if GWB come up as a topic on this board, the disciples of hate media would remain silent about a supposed conservative and the liberals might make some dumb jokes. I don't and wouldn't diss GWB for being born with a silver spoon in his mouth - I only care about what he does/did and how he has/had performed at his job.

In truth my remark was responding to 93legendti. The slide down the political rabbit hole started there. Mr. Kerry has served his country well. Even if one doesn't agree with his current boss or Mr. Kerry's past politics, he has served to what I perceive as his best effort and to the best interests of our nation. Why slag him off as never holding a private industry job? What kind of perverse patriotism is reflected in that kind of remark? It is the kind of remark not taken seriously other than the self gratification in hearing one's self repeat dogma.

Gotta gripe? Talk intelligently about it - this forum is smart enough to handle it. Hinting at insults is just throwing D batteries from the bleachers.

[93legendti]

Of course not - it's a roadie forum! Gotta have standards! :cool:

Actually, back when I was pretty active here, he was the Prez and did get respect for his mountain biking, even among those who didn't much care for his politics.

As someone who used to be a really avid cyclist but who's limited by health concerns to 5-10 miles on relatively flat ground on a sit up and beg town bike these days, I'm happy to see ANYONE the age of these guys still getting it done. I know I rode a lot during my most stressful times and know how helpful it could be in terms of stress management and even freeing up your mind (at least DURING the rides) to so some of your more creative thinking. I count all of this as good, so I was glad to see Bush and Kerry riding in those days and I'm glad to see Kerry still riding since he's still in the mix. And if Jeb or Hillary should get elected, I hope either of them finds as healthy an outlet as this to help them cope with the pressure and vast responsibilities...

-Ray
Just from one thread, here are 9 out of 35 posts:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=37696&highlight=Bush&page=3


everyone loves an unrepetent ex-drunk.

jerk

may train with power.


his brain is very low wattage.


I can't wait until he has some real time to train.

JG


His time on the bike is 90 minutes per week that he isn't effen something up. Perhaps he and VPres DC can start training for centuries or an IM.

given the decisions that get made, are we not better off with him on the trail?

That's a lot of training time. Shouldn't he be the busiest man in the world?

I don't care how much of a cyclist he is, he's still a loathsome disgrace to the country--call him the "Richard Nixon Appreciation Lesson."

Halve brain. Will train.


how often does he check the abuse-of-power meter?

[gdw]

Time to lock this one up.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Cut it out now or this thread gets the big lock. The partisan political stuff is clearly out of bounds with the forum user agreement.

The usual suspects spouting the usual stuff mods have grown to expect over the years. Stop it. Please.

BBD

[fuzzalow]

My posts concerned less politics and more about basic civility and manners. My apologies BBD.

That's all for me on this one. I'll see you guys at the next stop.

[Ken Robb]

I knew from the beginning that this would be a nasty thread so I avoided looking in until---just now when I read pages 6 and 7 which confirmed that my first reaction was correct. As BBD wrote: the usual "stuff" from the usual suspects.
I'm an old geezer and find it amusing that I have come to appreciate all of our ex-presidents including the ones I used to consider very disappointing.

[rounder]

Of course not - it's a roadie forum! Gotta have standards! :cool:

Actually, back when I was pretty active here, he was the Prez and did get respect for his mountain biking, even among those who didn't much care for his politics.
-Ray

You were a spokesman when I first started coming here. As far as I was concerned your posts were always good and relevant. Not always in to your politics but was always into your insight. Glad you are back. Welcome.

[IJWS]

. . . from some years ago is that it's an Ottrott.

BBD

Let's get this thread back to the point...an Ottrott? Really?

http://www.slipstreamsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/senator-kerry-1801.jpg
Well he's definitely not opposed to crabon

http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2011/08/06/1312688691_6425/539w.jpg

and this looks like it could be an Ottrott that he's on while fist-bumping everyone's favorite person

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03236/john-kerry_3236590b.jpg

That seatstay to dropout looks like an ottrott rear-end but that top tube has such a funky shape (aggressive taper), I can't imagine that's carbon. Must return to google image for more info.

oh geez, disregard.

http://files.newsnetz.ch/story/2/2/2/22212211/10/topelement.jpg

[Shortsocks]

You know, I've got to say, he's got pretty decent form for a guy is age. Seems to like gumwall vittorias, excellent tire, and other than a couple of pics of him locking his arms out, he's 100% a roadie. Good for him.

[Ray]

You were a spokesman when I first started coming here. As far as I was concerned your posts were always good and relevant. Not always in to your politics but was always into your insight. Glad you are back. Welcome.

I never completely left - I've always been checking in from time to time, but I don't have much to say about bike specific stuff anymore since I can't really ride much anymore. Every now and then I chime in on something semi-OT, but I should have stayed away from this one for sure...

-Ray

[numbskull]

I'm sure Kerry buys his own bikes but a parallel question this thread raises is what do our tax dollars buy for Kerry's escorts to ride, and who gets to pick them? The young guy outside him in the last picture looks to be well equipped.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm sure Kerry buys his own bikes but a parallel question this thread raises is what do our tax dollars buy for Kerry's escorts to ride, and who gets to pick them? The young guy outside him in the last picture looks to be well equipped.

Probably cheaper than a blacked-out, armored, comm unit equipped, armed to the teeth, Suburban.

[victoryfactory]

Maybe it means "I have religious beliefs that guide my life decisions, but I respect the separation of church and state and don't believe I should impose my religious beliefs on others". I don't know - just another possible interpretation...

-Ray

You Go Ray!
The separation of Church and State is at the very core of the American story.
And it's not a bad idea for bike forums either!

VF

[eippo1]

That's the Seven V-II that he's riding in this one. Custom paint w/ an eagle. You can see hints of it on the HT, but it is mostly on the drive side.

Let's get this thread back to the point...an Ottrott? Really?


http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2011/08/06/1312688691_6425/539w.jpg

and this looks like it could be an Ottrott that he's on while fist-bumping everyone's favorite person

[93legendti]

I'm sure Kerry buys his own bikes but a parallel question this thread raises is what do our tax dollars buy for Kerry's escorts to ride, and who gets to pick them? The young guy outside him in the last picture looks to be well equipped.

Hopefully bikes that allow them to keep up with those they are assigned to protect...even if they at cyclists, which I think they must be as well as agents, it's work related. I don't see this as a problem. Not an area to skimp on...

[rugbysecondrow]

"You go John Kerry! Hate your politics, love your bike"

[rugbysecondrow]

Maybe it means "I have religious beliefs that guide my life decisions, but I respect the separation of church and state and don't believe I should impose my religious beliefs on others". I don't know - just another possible interpretation...

-Ray

This is all bull···· Ray! (said with a grin because I am completely joking).

Good to see you Ray!

[sandyrs]

I cannot abide that loose-flapping yellow base layer jersey thing he's wearing in a bunch of these photos, but otherwise, good for him.

[OtayBW]

I cannot abide that loose-flapping yellow base layer jersey thing he's wearing in a bunch of these photos, but otherwise, good for him.
They draw attention away from his gut! ;)

[oldpotatoe]

They draw attention away from his gut! ;)

Hope you look as good when you are 72, sonny.

[Andrevich4]

I'm glad I skipped to the part where I could say his Serotta is still awesome.

What should his next bike be, though? A Gaulzetti with luxe wheels?

The real question is what components. Shimano might send the wrong message to China and Campagnolo just cut 20% of its workforce. Seems SRAM is the only choice. Tough life for the Secretary of State.

[Andrevich4]

Cycling is big in Iran, too, as I recall. And no test for EPO, either:

https://twitter.com/Mattbrammeier85/status/355986939775692801

Maybe the Secretary and the Foreign Minister ought to take the negotiations out on a bike ride.

[weisan]

It doesn't matter how much money you have...it's the bike that speaks to you that gets ridden most of the time...just ask Robin.
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/bg/Robin+Rides+SVAnh0cxYRNl.jpg
http://lovingthebike.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/robin-williams-colnago.jpg
http://blog.newscom.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/robin-williams-house-of-d.jpg

[oldpotatoe]

I'm glad I skipped to the part where I could say his Serotta is still awesome.

What should his next bike be, though? A Gaulzetti with luxe wheels?

The real question is what components. Shimano might send the wrong message to China and Campagnolo just cut 20% of its workforce. Seems SRAM is the only choice. Tough life for the Secretary of State.

All of srams junque is made in China or Taiwan. Gotta be Campagnolo on a Moots. Head diplomat, after all.

[malcolm]

I'm proposing that it's not just "what he was shooting for" and "hoping we'd happily swallow", but a strongly held position of how to govern. I have strongly held personal beliefs that inform how I live my own life but I strongly do NOT believe they should be forced on anyone else. In the extremely remote chance that I ever found myself running for public office, I'd make that very clear. So I don't have any problem assuming that's exactly what he was doing when you heard him speak...

None of which has anything to do with him riding in Switzerland and what kind of rider he is.

-Ray

Ray, Love it when you hang around brother. You say what I'm thinking so much better than I would.

[moose8]

Kerry showed up a couple of times on a group ride one of my friends did out of Newton a few years ago and acted just like another regular guy on a ride. I think it's great to see people in power ride bikes because they like riding bikes.

[OtayBW]

Hope you look as good when you are 72, sonny.
Thank-you, Young man.

[weisan]

I don't really want to contribute outside the discussion other than Ottrott and Colnago ...but I will say one thing.

The concept of "not forcing something down someone's throat" is a nice one but rarely adhere to by anyone in real life or in practice with any credible degree of consistency, if we are truly self-aware or honest with ourselves... We are always exerting influence over the people around us one way or another, whether through a formal chain of command or authority or through many informal channels of personal influence. A child absorbed values and acquired concepts just watching an adult, whether both parties are aware or intentional with their actions or not. That's how we socialize as humans, that's how we impart or pass down information or knowledge.

We say "we don't care" as in, not going to force you to adopt or accept my position or stance on certain issues but we will call somebody out as "trolls" or such trouble makers label...that itself is influence, it's peer pressure, it's exacting a certain standard, asserting one's opinion...because they don't meet our expectations, they needed to be called out. Nothing wrong with that, except we need to recognize and acknowledge we are "forcing" a position.

Again, absolutely nothing wrong with any of these...just saying we need to operate at a higher degree of self awareness and honesty, that's all. :D

[Kirk007]

Weisan,

Agreed, but there's a difference when you have taken an oath of office to uphold the Constitution and to adhere to the separation of church and state. And there is a difference between religious belief and morals/ethics/values. Yes they undoubtably inform and influence one another, but it is our public servants' duty to adhere to the separation of church and state.

For instance, one may believe as a religious matter that all life is sacred, a belief that manifests in multiple policies like abortion, physician assisted suicide (and that should manifest in protections for natural resources but rarely seems to); one may believe as a religious matter that their God is the one and true God and that everyone should live under and obey his or her will. But our Constitution guarantees that, as a religious matter, I can believe the same, the opposite or something entirely different and that I am free to live without the oppression of someone else's religious views.

If a public servant cannot see or is unwilling to distinguish to which authority they answer to in their role as a public servant: their God or our Constitution and laws, then they are not fit to serve. Sadly I think that a very large percentage of our public servants today are unfit under this fundamental standard. If we do not live without the oppression of a state religion, how do remain distinguishable from other fundamentalist regimes that oppress all other religions and their followers?

[1centaur]

We could get bogged down in a semantic hole but I think there is no need because I think we agree.

Religious/ethical views are all bound up in personal instincts, priorities, decisions, etc. There is no separating church from state in that regard. The Constitution itself reflects those instincts. Somebody who is anti abortion for religious reasons is not going to pursue expanding abortion rights as a top priority. Atheists will take a dim view of mandating creationism discussion in classrooms. We must agree that religion and state intertwine while also agreeing that mandating a church-based dogma as a driving force in politics is against the constitution.

The separation of church and state is often used as a pretext to be against extremely minor confluences of the two. I think we would be better off just accepting some underlying majority comfort with religion as long as no mandate exists. Though I still wonder how courts get away with "so help me God" when swearing in witnesses.

[Kirk007]

Though I still wonder how courts get away with "so help me God" when swearing in witnesses.

It is an "imperfect" union, reminiscent of Mr. Sach's "imperfection is perfection" we can always strive for better recognizing we are imperfect along the way. And judge's well - sometimes they confuse their position with God him/her/itself ; )

[weisan]

"I think we agree."
"imperfect union..."
No wiser words have been spoken. :banana: :p

[velomonkey]

All of srams junque is made in China or Taiwan. Gotta be Campagnolo on a Moots. Head diplomat, after all.

Agree with this - with one small exception - gotta be firefly "Made in Boston." given mine has campy and I'm 6'3" like the Senator/ Secretary of State - I would, no joke, give him mine.

Mr. Kerry - call me :)

[numbskull]

Hopefully bikes that allow them to keep up with those they are assigned to protect...even if they at cyclists, which I think they must be as well as agents, it's work related. I don't see this as a problem. Not an area to skimp on...

Absolutely. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. To the contrary, I could see Kerry (indirectly, through an underling) having to approve the expenditure and telling the agents who ride with him to "have at it boys". Which is probably what most of us would do. Reasonable fringe benefit for someone who might have to stop a bullet for you. Nice benefit at that.

[bironi]

It doesn't matter how much money you have...it's the bike that speaks to you that gets ridden most of the time...just ask Robin.
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/bg/Robin+Rides+SVAnh0cxYRNl.jpg
http://lovingthebike.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/robin-williams-colnago.jpg
http://blog.newscom.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/robin-williams-house-of-d.jpg

He's not answering currently.

[buddybikes]

correct he is not.

depression sucks.

how low can this thread get....

[SlowPokePete]

If those guys worked together they could up their average...

SPP

[gasman]

He's not answering currently.


This is really, really in poor taste.

[Road Fan]

I think it's cool that he rides a serotta. I am not a Kerry fan. But with all his money, he could ride the latest and the greatest. Instead, he rides a cool bike they do not even make anymore.

Looks to me like he just bought what he liked, he still likes it, and so he still rides it.

That Serotta will be a great ride 20 years from now. There might be better, but it will still be good.

[tuscanyswe]

I think he choose a pretty great color on that ottrott as well. Looks very nice!

[bironi]

This is really, really in poor taste.

You are right. I'm sorry for the flip answer.
Byron

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . has run it's course. Please, everybody, go for a ride.

BBD