Legend Ti or Spectrum ti??

[srogers]

Hi all, kind of new here, but am thinking of replacing my 6 year old Litespeed Arenburg, and I've narrowed it down to these two choices (I think). Has anyone owned both? I know both are custom, but wondering if the tubes are much different, the ride is much different? Weight? Thanks!

[Sandy]

I don't own either, but from what I understand it's like a choice between a truck of gold and a truck of gold. In either case, you get a truck of gold.


:banana: The Golden Boy Serotta Sandy :banana:

[znfdl]

I can only comment on the Spectrum Ti. I have a Spectrum Ti with the butted tubes. Tom was able to design the perfect bike for me by using the latest available tubeset (mostly oversized). The tubes were tuned for a specific ride that I outlined and the bike matches my request perfectly. The 54 cm frame, fork, paint and headset weigh in at 3lbs 10 oz.

I needed Tom to design a bike that is great for both long rides and the occasional race. Although I have not raced the bike I just got back from a 600 mile week long tour. The characteristics of the bike is that it is quick handling without being twitchy, accelerates and climbs like a demon. The bike is probably the best descending bike that I have ever had. The bike has a short wheel base, but absorbs enough road shock so that rough roads do not beat me up.

Any other questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

[Too Tall]

What a lucky guy to even be able to say what you are saying :)
Look, you can't go wrong however there certainly are advantages to knowing what you want and expect agreed? I'm probably not adding to what you know by saying Ti Legends are known for their amazing tubeset, stout build and steel-like ride. What attracts you to the Ti Legend and why? Also FWIIW and you probably know T.K.s more recent Ti tubeset is outtasight. Two very diff. Ti bikes. Ginger or Mary Ann?

[djg]

I needed Tom to design a bike that is great for both long rides and the occasional race. Although I have not raced the bike I just got back from a 600 mile week long tour. The characteristics of the bike is that it is quick handling without being twitchy, accelerates and climbs like a demon. The bike is probably the best descending bike that I have ever had. The bike has a short wheel base, but absorbs enough road shock so that rough roads do not beat me up.

Any other questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

And they said it was a three hour tour ...

What znfdl has failed to point out is that it's a killer looking bike too. Way nice. Secondary concern, mebbe, but still ...

[Sandy]

Why are they two very different (diff.) bikes, when you can have each tuned for the desired characteristics that you want, by builders with a superb ability to design what you want? Do I just not understand what diff. means?



Serotta Sandy

[Serotta PETE]

Do not know if weights are much different. Suggestion would be to first determine (quantify) what type ride you want, what type of riding you are going to be doing, what ride characteristics would you like changed (magnified or deleted) that your current bike has.

Both are custom bikes but it is like chocolate vs vanilla ice cream or ZIN verses CAB wine....One is not better or worse just a different flavor. I personally do not beleive they have to be different - if they are designed for you for a specific ride type. Only differnce will be Tom's or Serotta's execution on those requirements..

It is my belief that Serotta has more adjustability in tube set and fork characteristics BUT that is also not good or bad - if you do not need it to meet your riding requirements. Legend has option of a ST rear BUT if not needed for your requirements than it is a mute point.


My suggestion would be to write your requirements down and see which builder you feel best meets them.

You will not be disappointed with either.

Good shopping>>>>>>>>>>>>>

PETE

[znfdl]

Pete:

A ZIN is a much better wine than a CAB :D

ZNFDL

[Serotta PETE]

Pete:

A ZIN is a much better wine than a CAB :D

ZNFDL

I AGREE _ _ __ COME TO SMILEY's AND LETS TRY THEM>>>>

[coylifut]

I only know one person who has both and that's Christoph.

[OldDog]

Spectrum - fit by Tom
Legend - fit by ?

If the Legend is your thing take the time and trouble to find a shop/fitter you trust.

I'm jonesing for a Legend (though a Concur's might make more sense) and will be selling off bikes I no longer have any love for to finance it. I will be traveling 4 - 5 hours to DC to have Smiley fit it and assist in it's design. If i am going to lay out up to $4500 for a frame fork, the fitter will be one of the best.

On the other hand, TK designed a ti frame for my wife with 650c wheels. Tom gave us a 100% assurance she would like it, or return it. Understand that I do not know if that is Tom's standard policy, but in our case, 'da man stood behind his work. BTW - she loved it.

Tough choice to make! Have fun with it.

[Too Tall]

Isn't Christophes bike steel?

[Len J]

I only know one person who has both and that's Christoph.



they are both great bikes:

Plus for Spectrum.......if you can go there you will be fit by Tom & he will design the bike. I have never heard of anyone that didn't love the fit/ride of their Spectrum. I can't say that for Serotta.

Possible minus for Spectrum......his Ti bikes are made in the merlin Plant....he inspects them but he does outsource them. If that worries you, go Serotta.

If you have a very good fitter, and if you believe that merlin's Q/C is as good as Serotta, then either choice is great.

Len

[znfdl]

I AGREE _ _ __ COME TO SMILEY's AND LETS TRY THEM>>>>

Pete:

My 2001 Pinot's are drinking better than my 2002 Zin's, would one of those suffice?

[chrisroph]

I've got both (lucky me!) although it is not an entirely fair comparison because the spectrum was custom made for me and is about 1 year old. In contrast, I bought the legend used, it has standard geometry and it is about 8 years old. I would have built the legend differently, with oversized chainstays, a slacker seat tube angle and a lower bottom bracket.

Both are at the top of the titanium heap. They are far and away the best ti bikes I have ever had. They are both very solid with oversize tubes and are eminently raceable yet still compliant. Neither is as rigid or as uncompromising as my eddy leader al, which is slated to be this year's racing iron. But both have, at least to this experienced dude who has over 30 years in the saddle, better all around characteristics, more of a combination of comfort and speed. But I have never really been a fan of the uncompromisingly rigid frame, preferring a bike that has some give and move with the rider kind of flexion characteristics.

I love the spectrum. It was designed as a road bike, for long days in the saddle, going up and down mountians, for riding no hands while taking off and putting on vests and jackets. TK nailed it, it is perfect for the intended use. There is really something silky and magical about it which is due to the design, the balance, the oversize tubeset and gigantic chainstays. At the same time, you can jump on it and not have it feel overly mushy. Interestingly, my steel spectrum has many of the same qualities so maybe it is a house characteristic.

On to the legend. It is also a very special bike. I used it as my late last season racing bike and it has all of the qualities you want in an all around racing bike, solid stable cornering, enough rigidity to respond to big gear out of the saddle jumps, predictable manners. I really don't think about it, I just ride it. I often am amazed by its rigid main triangle and its overall responsiveness. This year, it is in Bend and will be my central Oregon road bike. My only real criticisms of it are

1. That the rear end seems too wiggle just a bit under real hard jumps. I am sure this could easily be remedied with bigger chainstays, which serotta has available and which I now believe are standard on the legend.

2. The bb is too high for my tastes. It is one of the older 7cm drop models and I seem to prefer 73-80mm. This gives a bike much more stability.

My criticisms of the legend would all be alleviated if I had one built custom. I have absolutely no doubt that it would be simple for serotta to build exactly what I want if I ordered a new one.

So, which should you get? Either will exceed your wildest dreams if

1. It fits you right.

2. It has the ride characteristics you like.

These depend on several things including your own knowledge of your own fit parameters, and who you will be working with. For example, I know that I like 72 deg st angles coupled with about a 57.5-58cm tt, a 13-14 cm stem, a standard length headtube with 1-1.5 cm spacers, chainstays of about 41-42 cm, 73-80mm bb drop, 56-59mm trail. Trial and error has taught me that I like bikes that have these characteristics.

Thus, I don't really need to be "fitted". I once was fitted by a local shop and the recommendations were so bizarre that I walked out.

Do you know what you like in terms of a fit? If not, are you close to TK or to a serotta certified fitter that you trust?

Bottom line, you will not go wrong with either choice. BTW, I had an arenberg and you will be amazed at the differences.

[chrisroph]

I've got both (lucky me!) although it is not an entirely fair comparison because the spectrum was custom made for me and is about 1 year old. In contrast, I bought the legend used, it has standard geometry and it is about 8 years old. I would have built the legend differently, with oversized chainstays, a slacker seat tube angle and a lower bottom bracket.

Both are at the top of the titanium heap. They are far and away the best ti bikes I have ever had. They are both very solid with oversize tubes and are eminently raceable yet still compliant. Neither is as rigid or as uncompromising as my eddy leader al, which is slated to be this year's racing iron. But both have, at least to this experienced dude who has over 30 years in the saddle, better all around characteristics, more of a combination of comfort and speed. But I have never really been a fan of the uncompromisingly rigid frame, preferring a bike that has some give and move with the rider kind of flexion characteristics.

I love the spectrum. It was designed as a road bike, for long days in the saddle, going up and down mountians, for riding no hands while taking off and putting on vests and jackets. TK nailed it, it is perfect for the intended use. There is really something silky and magical about it which is due to the design, the balance, the oversize tubeset and gigantic chainstays. At the same time, you can jump on it and not have it feel overly mushy. Interestingly, my steel spectrum has many of the same qualities so maybe it is a house characteristic.

On to the legend. It is also a very special bike. I used it as my late last season racing bike and it has all of the qualities you want in an all around racing bike, solid stable cornering, enough rigidity to respond to big gear out of the saddle jumps, predictable manners. I really don't think about it, I just ride it. I often am amazed by its rigid main triangle and its overall responsiveness. This year, it is in Bend and will be my central Oregon road bike. My only real criticisms of it are

1. That the rear end seems too wiggle just a bit under real hard jumps. I am sure this could easily be remedied with bigger chainstays, which serotta has available and which I now believe are standard on the legend.

2. The bb is too high for my tastes. It is one of the older 7cm drop models and I seem to prefer 73-80mm. This gives a bike much more stability.

My criticisms of the legend would all be alleviated if I had one built custom. I have absolutely no doubt that it would be simple for serotta to build exactly what I want if I ordered a new one.

So, which should you get? Either will exceed your wildest dreams if

1. It fits you right.

2. It has the ride characteristics you like.

These depend on several things including your own knowledge of your own fit parameters, and who you will be working with. For example, I know that I like 72 deg st angles coupled with about a 57.5-58cm tt, a 13-14 cm stem, a standard length headtube with 1-1.5 cm spacers, chainstays of about 41-42 cm, 73-80mm bb drop, 56-59mm trail. Trial and error has taught me that I like bikes that have these characteristics.

Thus, I don't really need to be "fitted". I once was fitted by a local shop and the recommendations were so bizarre that I walked out.

Do you know what you like in terms of a fit? If not, are you close to TK or to a serotta certified fitter that you trust?

Bottom line, you will not go wrong with either choice. BTW, I had an arenberg and you will be amazed at the differences.

Re QC, they both are perfect with superb alignment, no hands characteristics, the wheels are square, the width of the rear triangle is perfect, etc. I wouldn't worry about the QC on the spectrum, it is a thing of beauty and art. Mine was one of the last batch built by Eddie, TK's hand picked welder, who unfortunately passed away suddenly after my frame was built.

[Serotta PETE]

Pete:

My 2001 Pinot's are drinking better than my 2002 Zin's, would one of those suffice?

:D naturally it will suffice... :)

[Sandy]

they are both great bikes:

Plus for Spectrum.......if you can go there you will be fit by Tom & he will design the bike. I have never heard of anyone that didn't love the fit/ride of their Spectrum. I can't say that for Serotta.

Possible minus for Spectrum......his Ti bikes are made in the merlin Plant....he inspects them but he does outsource them. If that worries you, go Serotta.

If you have a very good fitter, and if you believe that merlin's Q/C is as good as Serotta, then either choice is great.

Len

In defense of Serotta relative to fit/ride of Serottas compared to Spectrums- Serotta produces many more ti (or steel) bikes than Spectrum. In addition, the Serotta board is a very large and active bike forum (unlike Spectrum) with basically an open invitation to say what you want, be that positive or negative to Serotta. Spectrum does have an obvious advantage in that the fitter and designer is Tom Kellogg and you can go to the "barn" to get fit by Tom himself, whereas Serotta depends more on a large number of fitters. I also have never encoutered a Spectrum rider who didn't love his Spectrum. But I have met many more owners of Serottas and all of them equally enjoy their bikes. In addition, as you have stated, Tom Kellogg designs the ti bikes but he does not build them (as he builds his steel). There have been some Spectrum owners who have not been totally satisfied with their bikes.

The law of numbers and the open availability to make comments makes the comparison a little skewed, at least to me.

Personally, the ONLY bike that I would consider for purchase at this time would be a Serotta or a Spectrum or a Kirk (possibly a Vanilla). I can't imagine any of them not being wonderful.


Not so wonderful,


Serotta Sandy

[SPOKE]

regarding being able to get the fit and ride qualities you may be looking for from either builder. both are first class. just do yourself a favor and take a very close look at recent examples of each frame in sizes that are close to what you will be riding. the Serotta will have "shaped" tubes in the main triangle and the rear triangle. the Spectrum (i think) will use round tubes in these locations. both tube sets are butted and can be built to offer you the ride qualities you desire. the difference in asthetics may help you make the decision.

[Dr. Doofus]

custom geo:

tk is a master fitter guru can't go wrong guy

your fit school technician may or may not be

use your best judgment


stock geo:

both amazing bikes


down to:

which one do you think look better?

[Len J]

sounds like we are saying the same thing.

What am I missing?

Len

[Ray]

I had the same decision about a year and a half ago. I have abosolute confidence that either can be designed and built into a virtually perfect bike. To me the only difference is that with Spectrum, you KNOW who's doing the fit/design and you know that he never ends up with a dis-satisfied customer (well, maybe very rarely, but he and erichie are the only folks I've NEVER read a negative review about - Kirk and Vanilla too but they're relatively new).

Serotta clearly has some excellent, first rate fitters, some of whom are on this board. If you know you have a great fitter, I'd never try to talk you out of Serotta - as someone else said, if the fit/design is right its like comparing a bucket of diamonds to a bucket of diamonds - both are incredible.

I went with Spectrum partially because of TK's rep and he's in my neighborhood, so it was easy to get to the barn for a fit. I've had the same crazy great experience as everyone else. Won't bore you with the details (again), but the SOB has destroyed what had been a very healthy case of bike lust - just not interested in riding anything else anymore. He just absolutely nailed what I was looking for and maybe took me beyond what I was looking for because I didn't know what was possible. I'm quite sure you can have the same experience with Serotta if you have the right fitter, but you might not if the fitter isn't great.

In short, you can go very very very right going in either direction - with one direction, though, you pretty much CANNOT go wrong.

Good luck and have fun,

-Ray

[coylifut]

are these bikes priced the same for a frame, fork and headset?

[Smiley]

Serotta builds close to what 3000 approx.frames per year .. mostly all done through their dealer / fitter network . I am sure that if one of these dealer/ fitters screwed up your fit Serotta would do good by you. Lets see one example comes to mind Climb got an Ottrott that fit well but was not tuned to his liking .. what did serotta do , EAT THE FRAME . So come on lets cut our hosts a break here and give them some props . All 3000 bikes can't be screwed up . I am sure if TK whom I love and respect did 3000 bikes a year chances are he'd at least mess one or two up :)

My point is you can't compare the scales of the operation or the same business models. Serotta's are just flat GREAT bikes and they are backed by a company that will soon be celebrating its 35 th year in business , NUF said and they do host this board and for that they have the balls to see good business steered away from them by "us" the receiptiants of their generosity .

[Ray]

No disrespect meant to Serotta at all - and Smiley has a good point about the scale of the operation. And I'm sure they'd take care of you if there was a problem. But scale doesn't matter to the OP - he's one customer either way he goes. OK - here's a recommendation:

Go to Smiley to get fit for a Serotta (never seen anything but raves from his customers and he's a great guy too!) or go to TK for a Spectrum. Equal playing field. Either/Or proposition. Two buckets of the finest, rarest stuff known to humankind. No downsides. He or she WILL be ecstatically happy with the new bike.

We cool? :beer:

-Ray

[Smiley]

Ray , this is not about me as a fitter , its about the knock of the Serotta system , why does one assume that with doctors or fitters or custom bike companies you don't need to shop around for references about the Good and the Very good. I just think that you'll get an excellent fit by most of the reputed Serotta fitters in the dealer network and remember its about doing due dilegince as with any other service you seek.

If your really nice , I'll let you demo an Ottrott at Nottrott :)

[H1449-6]

I just went through a similar decision process (on a Ti bike, considering Seven, Serotta and Spectrum). There's a 60 or 70 post thread from a couple of weeks ago.

For me, being able to be fit by the designer (and that the designer's Tom Kellogg) made the difference in my decision. I've a fitting appointment in May and am looking forward to it.

[Johny]

For me, being able to be fit by the builder (and that the builder's Tom Kellogg) made the difference in my decision. I've a fitting appointment in May and am looking forward to it.

Spectrums are made by Merlin in TN.

[Ray]

Ray , this is not about me as a fitter , its about the knock of the Serotta system , why does one assume that with doctors or fitters or custom bike companies you don't need to shop around for references about the Good and the Very good. I just think that you'll get an excellent fit by most of the reputed Serotta fitters in the dealer network and remember its about doing due dilegince as with any other service you seek.

If your really nice , I'll let you demo an Ottrott at Nottrott :)
Again, no knock intended. Being a larger company with a larger network of fitters means there's more room for both excellence and, occasionally, something less. If the buyer knows enough to find one of the many great fitters, he/she will be really happy. And if not, Serotta will likely make it right. But that takes just a bit of work. With a very small operation like Spectrum/Sachs/Vanilla/Kirk/CPG/etc, the ONE GUY (ok two with Spectrum - Jeff is a big part of what makes them great. maybe three - Colby's gotta get some props too for setting just the right mood) establishes the repuation of the whole operation so its somewhat easier to research and assure yourself of who you're dealing with. It's inevitable that Serotta's size creates a different set of tradeoffs (some up, some down, obviously) than a smaller operation. So no knock - just a discussion of the inevitable differences. And if the OP does the research and is satisfied with his/her fitter, then no reason at all not to go with Serotta and many good reasons to do so.

That might not have been nice enough to warrant a test ride on an Ottrott or MeiVichi - maybe a Fierte? :cool:

-Ray

[H1449-6]

Spectrums are made by Merlin in TN.

Good point. I meant to note that the DESIGNER is Tom K.

[manet]

Good point. I meant to note that the DESIGNER is Tom K.

TK is designer and fitter.

Kelly is designer.

[Zoomie80]

I went through this same dilemma three years ago...wanted a new ti bike and considered Moots, Seven, IF, Davidson, Holland, and Merlin; but narrowed it to Serotta and Spectrum. I was in a state of "analysis paralysis" for about a month, trying to weigh all of the variables in this decision. I finally gave up and realized I was going to get a great ride no matter what. I chose Serotta because of the 3DXL dropouts(!)...pure artistry in their shape and the "safety net" of a dealer network. I chose a Legend ti (1/2 polish, red and white "Sizzler" paint)...man, that was a tough decision too...but much more fun! My LBS (Spokes, etc. in Vienna, VA) came through for me when I found a very minor cosmetic flaw in the downtube and they worked with me and Serotta to get the bike repainted. No doubt TK would have done the the same...but just glad I had an LBS to work with.

Now...I'm wondering if a 56 Fierte IT will fit me... :banana:

BTW, I met TK and his wife at NAHBS last month...wow, absolutely fantastic people. It was an honor to chat with him and shake his hand.

Cheers,
Zoomie

[Len J]

Ray , this is not about me as a fitter , its about the knock of the Serotta system , why does one assume that with doctors or fitters or custom bike companies you don't need to shop around for references about the Good and the Very good. I just think that you'll get an excellent fit by most of the reputed Serotta fitters in the dealer network and remember its about doing due dilegince as with any other service you seek.

If your really nice , I'll let you demo an Ottrott at Nottrott :)

Smiley:

I don't see anyone knocking the Serotta system, rather, both Ray & I are just stating that Not everyone can do a fit/design like Tom Kellogg. Where is that a knock on the Serotta system.....it's knda inarguable.

I also went out of my way to specifically say, get a good fitting and they are 2 great bikes.

I don't get the sensitivity here.

Len

[bostondrunk]

I think the difference is that TK is TK, someone that is extremely well known for his fit skill. With Serotta fitters, it is well known that many have gone to 2+ different serotta fitters and received 2+ different frame recommendations... Doesn't mean they are bad, just makes it harder to figure out who is the right one to go to...

[spincycle]

There is a very detailed comparison between a Spectrum and Legend written by an owner of both on the bikefanclub forum. The owner happens to be kahuna who is also the moderator of the the bikefanclub forum. Just go to the bikefanclub forum, select the Spectrum forum and the thread is on the fourth and last page. Granted this is one owners experience and shouldn't be considered as the absolute answer to the original posters question. Just one more data point. By the way, Kahuna concludes they are both great bikes with a slight nod to the Spectrum. It's at least worth a read.

[Dr. Doofus]

I think the difference is that TK is TK, someone that is extremely well known for his fit skill. With Serotta fitters, it is well known that many have gone to 2+ different serotta fitters and received 2+ different frame recommendations... Doesn't mean they are bad, just makes it harder to figure out who is the right one to go to...

yo drunk

stop agreein with the foodus

it'll start messin up yer insides and all

[Smiley]

What if Ben Serotta did the fit , would you all be happy or since Ben did not weld the frame would this give a nod to Tom Kellog ?

Again , listen there are plenty of serotta dealers that depend on making a living fitting and selling Serotta's , saying they or the system they function under is not as good as TK or others is just not fair or right to them and to Serotta. Again its a different business model and TK could not build 3000 frames per year doing all the fits and then welding in his spare time.
Kelly Bedford who is the X factor when his talent is figured into this Serotta equation will get you one hella of a bike design . People forget that Kelly Bedford takes calls all the time from customers to discuss their bike handling requirements . Maybe some clients are not aware of this .

LenJ and Ray , my points are not directed to you but these are general since this is the second post of this nature asking about Serotta and Spectrum , I see thats there another post about Serotta and Litespeed and they all come back to the same point Ben does not personally do the fit. Geez no , really he's running a very successful company and seems to me his model works just swell . But lets just give them their just Kudos for the joy they bring to very many satisfied Serotta bikes owners even though Ben never did my bike fit somebody else did and guess what I could not be happier with the end result. I leave it at that since I know too many really good bike fitters that amaze me with the stuff they've done and the level of service they have elivated the industry too. That's all thanks to the Serotta model and the invention by Ben Serotta of the tool that most wish they could have come up with "the Size Cycle" :)

[Fixed]

bro the troubles all come with the fitters and their ideas about bikes .if they dont know the way you ride or race they can't tell when you ride a trainer .you better know what you like before you trust your new bike to a fitter unless he rides with you and knows you .i.m.h.o.
cheers

[vaxn8r]

bro the troubles all come with the fitters and their ideas about bikes .if they dont know the way you ride or race they can't tell when you ride a trainer .you better know what you like before you trust your new bike to a fitter unless he rides with you and knows you .i.m.h.o.
cheers
Sage advice....

[znfdl]

bro the troubles all come with the fitters and their ideas about bikes .if they dont know the way you ride or race they can't tell when you ride a trainer .you better know what you like before you trust your new bike to a fitter unless he rides with you and knows you .i.m.h.o.
cheers

Fixed:

You are quite right. I have been a customer of Spectrum since 1987. After alomst 19 years of being a loyal customer, Tom finally got it right :D Seriously though, Tom knows quite well what I look for in a bike and he built me a great bike. There have been several aspects of my bikes that have stayed constant through the years; HT & ST angles, TT length and fork rake. The variability in my different frames has been BB height, chain stay length and tuning the tubes for a specific ride. I guess that I am most comfortable with Tom and Jeff's work.

Smiley, I am sure that there are many Serotta fitters that could also do a tremendous job. For me it was the comfort level of being a long time customer of Spectrum. Serotta also has a tremendous following of loyal customers. This discussion has the merits of debating "should I buy a Maserati or a Ferrari".

[bostondrunk]

What if Ben Serotta did the fit , would you all be happy or since Ben did not weld the frame would this give a nod to Tom Kellog ?


If Ben had 15+ years of people raving about him specifically as a great fitter, then yes, I bet that would make a difference.

Like I said, 2 different Serotta trained fitters, 2 different frame/size opinions. Just makes it a bit more difficult to decide who. Now if you happen to know yur Serotta fitter well and have great faith in him/her, then yer fine I guess.

[Spectrum Bob]

Just throwing in my 2 cents

10 or 12 years ago I was thinking I would have to give up cycling or get a recumbent – I have a herniated disc in my neck and was getting a lot of pain from riding – I was on a bike that did not fit me – I actually contacted Serotta and they recommended a fitter in Harrisonburg VA who had a degree in sports physiology that they felt would be a good person to work with – Garth was a great fitter – we spent hours on the fit cycle searching for that perfect set up that allowed me to ride – I still have a very fine line of how much I can bend my neck before I am in pain – I almost bought a Serotta at that time but I wasn’t sure if this new position would work and did not want to make the investment at the time not knowing if the new position would allow me to ride pain free – Garth researched and found me a production frame in my budget that was close and we had Salsa produce a custom stem to dial it in – needless to say it worked

I knew at this time I was a prime candidate for a custom bike – my bike club over several years had guest speakers come in for their annual meeting – I got to hear Ben Serotta, Richard Schwinn and Tom Kellogg all give talks about their companies – their philosophies on design and fit.

In conclusion – if I was in a different financial situation at the time I am sure Garth would have built me one sweet Serotta – if Garth would have still been in business when I went custom I would have been hard pressed to go anywhere else but unfortunately Garth left the bike business – after listening to Ben, Richard and Tom – I connected best with Tom – I also saw a lot of Serottas around (Smiley was doing a great job!) but I rarely ever saw a Spectrum – I liked that – In the end I picked Spectrum based to the talk Tom gave to Potomac Peddlers

The bike Tom built for me fits like a glove – which is no surprise – the surprise has been how the bike inspired me to ride at a new level – Tom really built me a bike that has inspired me to grow as a cyclist – I am far from its potential – I have also watched my wife go through a similar transformation since she got her Spectrum – she is actually doing a little racing – how cool is that!

I want to finish saying thank you to Serotta for hosting the forum – it’s a great place to hang and learn!

[Smiley]

Cool Breeze Cyclery , My man Garth was one really good guy :)

[Ahneida Ride]

Ray , this is not about me as a fitter , its about the knock of the Serotta system , why does one assume that with doctors or fitters or custom bike companies you don't need to shop around for references about the Good and the Very good. I just think that you'll get an excellent fit by most of the reputed Serotta fitters in the dealer network and remember its about doing due dilegince as with any other service you seek.

If your really nice , I'll let you demo an Ottrott at Nottrott :)

Smiley is right. you gotta shop for your fitter. Find someone with 10 years
of experience. My guy has 20 plus.

If Kelly get the right stuff, magic happens. My Serotta is just perfect !
Just Perfect ! ;)

[catulle]

With Serotta fitters, it is well known that many have gone to 2+ different serotta fitters and received 2+ different frame recommendations... Doesn't mean they are bad, just makes it harder to figure out who is the right one to go to...

Been there, done that.

[andy mac]

devil's advocate - if you only ask one person eg. tk, you only get one opinion.

[chrisroph]

The best fitter is yourself. What I mean by this is really only you know exactly how high your saddle should be positioned, what type of saddle to ride, what angle to use on the saddle, how much setback to use, how to position your cleats, what type of shoes and pedals to ride, how much reach you like to the bars, how low the bars should be, what type of bars to ride, how wide should the bars be, where should the hoods be positioned, what type of shorts to use, what type of chamois cream to use, what type of stretching works, what type of cadence and gears to ride, etc. People can help with these things and we are always learning, always tweaking, always searching for something a little more efficient and more comfortable. What works on one day or a particular time of the year may not work at other times. My saddle goes up and down a few mm's all the time. But really, only you can ultimately decide what works best for you. The recommendations of a fitter only put you in an appropriate range. You have to make the final decisions yourself. The thought of having someone else adjust my cleats for example gives me the willies. I have spent hours setting up a new set of cleats or a new pair of shoes. Sometimes these hours are spend over the course of several days or even weeks. Cleat position is the starting point in a fit and is absolutely critical to comfortable and efficient pedaling.

The best use of a builder/designer is to build you a frame with the kind of riding characteristics you desire given your anticipated position on the bike. TK can do this and so can serotta. No doubt. They both spec great riding bikes.

[Fixed]

amen bro