Is this frame toast?

[dbh]

Was cleaning off my ANT fixed gear club racer after a ride through Boston's salt encrusted roads when I inspected the bb and found what look to be hairline cracks. Just wanted a second opinion as to whether folks thought it was a crack in the frame or the powder coat. I thought the ride had been a bit mushy but chalked it up to the 32mm Vittoria randonneurs I use in the winter.
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/08/cc52a1f1cec5f79a79f2ac798728a341.jpg

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/08/70ce7f23440eeb3d78eca37808348ae2.jpg

[RedRider]

I'll reserve my comments because you are in Boston and should try to contact Mike Flanigan directly. He built it... no one would know better...

[seanile]

given that those are rust colored cracks, i'd think it's not just in the paint that's cracked.
almost every crack is repairable [by replacement], but it depends on the cost associated, and BB clusters are not very cost effective places to fix a crack. you'd need to replace the ST and DT by the looks of it..almost half of your bike right there.

[Black Dog]

Does not look good. Sorry. It may be time to pull the plug and say goodbye. :(

[dcama5]

I'll reserve my comments because you are in Boston and should try to contact Mike Flanigan directly. He built it... no one would know better...

I agree with RedRider. Contact Mike at Ant. He can give you all the info from seriousness to cost of repair. In my opinion, it may be dangerous to ride especially if you were noticing a "mushy" feel to the frame.

[Peter P.]

It's the frame.

I had a Reynolds 853 Salsa Ala Carte develop similar cracks in several spots.

[unterhausen]

I would like to know what could cause an indication like that without being a huge crack. It's amazing how far around a frame can crack at the bb shell and still be ridable. This is particularly true if there isn't a front derailleur there to rub on the chain. That looks like it's not long for the world. My guess is it wouldn't be hard to open that up with a foot on the drive side pedal

[RedRider]

I agree with RedRider. Contact Mike at Ant. He can give you all the info from seriousness to cost of repair. In my opinion, it may be dangerous to ride especially if you were noticing a "mushy" feel to the frame.

Mike is now working at Seven after closing down Ant. He might use the Ant email but he's still in your area and active in framebuilding.

[Charles M]

My X-ray App isn't working...

Sorry.

[oldpotatoe]

I agree with RedRider. Contact Mike at Ant. He can give you all the info from seriousness to cost of repair. In my opinion, it may be dangerous to ride especially if you were noticing a "mushy" feel to the frame.

'Cost of repair'? If the OP is original owner and it is cracked(looks that way to me), I would hope cost of repair=zero...

IMHO. Frames shouldn't break like that. Again, IMHO.

[josephr]

I wouldn't ride it, if that's what you're asking....that first pic looks pretty serious.

[Cicli]

Sorry Toast.

I love the description. "Hairlines". That's a bit more than a hairline.

[F150]

Got a crack in '80s Fuji bottom bracket TIG welded, holding up for now. But that was a bottom bracket. Yours looks more like in the tubing itself. Failure at this location doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[buddybikes]

>>>Cost of repair'? If the OP is original owner and it is cracked(looks that way to me), I would hope cost of repair=zero...

IMHO. Frames shouldn't break like that. Again, IMHO.


Rust - steel and water don't like each other. How can that be a framebuilder problem?

[Peter P.]

It's amazing how far around a frame can crack at the bb shell and still be ridable.

I had my Bilenky Clubsman crack on the seat tube just above the bottom bracket. I discovered the crack after it was roughly 3/4 the way around the tube. I rode the bike for 4 more days before I could send it out for repair.

Cracks in steel frames usually form very slowly oftentimes giving you plenty of warning, visual or otherwise.

Since ANT's out of business, I think the owner will be out of luck if they think they're going to get a warranty repair. Just because Mike Flanigan can be found at Seven doesn't mean he's under obligation to fix it if his business is gone.

[AngryScientist]

Q: is this frame toast?

A: yes

[likebikes]

I'd ride it.

[Louis]

I'd ride it.

Not very far...

[seanile]

Since ANT's out of business, I think the owner will be out of luck if they think they're going to get a warranty repair. Just because Mike Flanigan can be found at Seven doesn't mean he's under obligation to fix it if his business is gone.
you must consider mike's good character before you count him out for the upholding of a warranty.

[dbh]

Definitely not in warranty as I'm the second owner and the frame is a decade old. Probably not worth repairing given what I paid for it.

[blessthismess]

Definitely not in warranty as I'm the second owner and the frame is a decade old. Probably not worth repairing given what I paid for it.

Unfortunately it looks like that frame is toast. Been through that before. You have my sympathies. 2013/2014 was a rough year for me and cracked frames. All older bikes will eventually crack or break especially when being used in rough weather or rough streets.

[charliedid]

Burnt

[oldpotatoe]

>>>Cost of repair'? If the OP is original owner and it is cracked(looks that way to me), I would hope cost of repair=zero...

IMHO. Frames shouldn't break like that. Again, IMHO.


Rust - steel and water don't like each other. How can that be a framebuilder problem?

Looks like the welds cracked around BB....then rusted. Rust isn't the issue I see from the pix but the huge cracks.

[FlashUNC]

I'd still reach out to Mike. Everything I hear is he's a stand up dude.

[jr59]

i'd still reach out to mike. Everything i hear is he's a stand up dude.

+1

[Mikej]

Ok, 2nd owner of a bike made by a guy/company that could not stay in business is most likely not going to get fixed for free. I'm sure all of his equipment and facilities are no longer around. Would you still work at your old job when you got a new job? Plus, those are failures that would most likely require a new frame. If he was fixing 2nd owner steel bikes for life, good on him for the 2nd owner, bad for biz. Steel bikes generally don't have lifetime warranties anyway. Why would you think that frame wasn't toast, btw?

[unterhausen]

agree, it sure looks like both the seat tube and down tube are cracked. Not economic to fix it, even for a framebuilder. Would be new frame time

[FlashUNC]

Ok, 2nd owner of a bike made by a guy/company that could not stay in business is most likely not going to get fixed for free. I'm sure all of his equipment and facilities are no longer around. Would you still work at your old job when you got a new job? Plus, those are failures that would most likely require a new frame. If he was fixing 2nd owner steel bikes for life, good on him for the 2nd owner, bad for biz. Steel bikes generally don't have lifetime warranties anyway. Why would you think that frame wasn't toast, btw?

From Mike's blog post on shutting down ANT:

https://antbikemike.wordpress.com/2014/11/17/a-new-begining/

I am going to keep just enough tooling for a home shop to continue make bicycles, but on a part time basis and without taking any orders. The website, blog, Facebook, Instagram and Flickr will still be used. I will be showing my work at Seven, Seven events, riding bikes and eventually what I am making at home for fun and to sell, after the bike is made.

My guess, if its a real welding issue, bring it up with Mike and see what he says about a possible repair. Absolute worst case, he says no, right? So what's the harm in asking?

[Mikej]

From Mike's blog post on shutting down ANT:

https://antbikemike.wordpress.com/2014/11/17/a-new-begining/

I am going to keep just enough tooling for a home shop to continue make bicycles, but on a part time basis and without taking any orders. The website, blog, Facebook, Instagram and Flickr will still be used. I will be showing my work at Seven, Seven events, riding bikes and eventually what I am making at home for fun and to sell, after the bike is made.

My guess, if its a real welding issue, bring it up with Mike and see what he says about a possible repair. Absolute worst case, he says no, right? So what's the harm in asking?

None, but lifetime warranty 10+ year old 2nd hand frames is just not something it keep my hopes up for. A real welding issue would have most likely been noticed sooner than 10+ years. It actually appears to be NOT a weld issue anyway. That crinkled paint on the seat tube could more than likely be from an accident with the cranks hitting something like the concrete after a bicycle cart wheel. That did not happen JRA -Just riding along - and as the second owner, you have no idea. What's the rest of the bike look like?

[David Tollefson]

Difficult to tell where exactly the crack started without pulling it apart -- whether it started in the weld or the tube itself. Redardless, it's in the heat-affected zone, which is a welding issue, even if it's not in the weld itself.

[dbh]

That crinkled paint on the seat tube could more than likely be from an accident with the cranks hitting something like the concrete after a bicycle cart wheel. That did not happen JRA -Just riding along - and as the second owner, you have no idea. What's the rest of the bike look like?

Rest of the bike is in great shape. I bought it from the original owner who was one of Mike's earliest clients when he left IF but was still building in Somerville. Nothing else on the frame to indicate it was abused such as rippling in the paint or dings in the top tube. Still, that's life. Ain't gonna bother Mike with this. Frame is toast and he bares no responsibility -- even if he was still in business.

If anyone wants the threaded, straight blade unicrown fork drilled for long reach front brake and custom D rack, let me know. It's got a black powder coat and cleans up nicely.

[cnighbor1]

If close to builder take frame to him has he needs to see how his frame preform in the real world. Or he could make the same error again