Train Crossing Issue -- PR Spoiler

[Keith A]

I just finished reading an interesting article on CyclingNews regarding the train crossing issue in the PR. It seems that Boonen and company also crossed the train barriers after the train went by, but BEFORE the barriers went up -- but yet they weren't DQ'd. If they are going to use the letter of the law in this case to DQ the two Discovery riders and Van Petegem, then they need to apply the same law across the board. Not that I am interested in Boonen or anyone else being DQ'd because of this, but come on, you've got play fair -- either they all get DQ'd, or none of them.

Here's a link to the CyclingNews' report (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/apr06/apr10news2)

[harlond]

Maybe, but there is a significant difference. Hoste and company were trying to beat the train, which is quite a bit more dangerous than crossing after the train has gone. The commissars might reasonably have concluded that discouraging future riders from trying to beat trains through a crossing necessitated the disqualification of Hoste and company, and not Boonen and company.

[Johny]

Hey the rules are there for interpretation. The referees were probably pissed off when Van Petegem et al. did not listen to them at the cross.

[Keith A]

Yes indeed it is much more dangerous to cross before the train has passed rather than after it. But the riders looked and there was no train coming at that moment as the barriers had just gone done. However, the race officials are using the letter of this law rather than the spirit of the law and here is what the race director thought about the decision...

Jean-Marie Leblanc, race director, also thought the decision was too hard on the riders. "The regulation was made because there were situations that needed a rule," he said. "But this was not the case today. Cancellara passed the crossing, and the barriers went down behind him. The three chasers, who didn't see a train coming, certainly infringed the rule but it didn't really affect the race situation. Everyone knew that Cancellara was increasing his lead and that the ones behind him would be fighting for second place. In these kind of situations, I prefer the spirit rather than the rule itself to be applied - although that is certainly incorrect rules-wise. I think the decision is very severe."

[yeehawfactor]

see below

[Argos]

Sorry, but that was a BIG train. Though it was out of rmae of the Motobikes until it was right there, they saw it. Boonen and the others crossing before the barriers went up is less the problem, then the others dis-obeying the race officials standing there waving them to stop.

Once the train is gone, it is reasonable that they would resume chase as soon as possible. The rule is about safety, not the position of a bar.

[Ray]

Sorry, but that was a BIG train.I get your basic point and agree with it. But would a smaller train have been less dangerous? You get hit by a train of any size (well, maybe not Lionel), and you're pretty well toast, no?

-Ray

[Keith A]

Boonen and the others crossing before the barriers went up is less the problem, then the others dis-obeying the race officials standing there waving them to stop.Do we know that the race officials told Boonen and company to go ahead before the barriers came up?

[Squint]

It depends...if there are more than one set of tracks, sometimes there are two trains. People have waited for the first train only to be hit by the second...

Probably not the case here but it happens.


Maybe, but there is a significant difference. Hoste and company were trying to beat the train, which is quite a bit more dangerous than crossing after the train has gone. The commissars might reasonably have concluded that discouraging future riders from trying to beat trains through a crossing necessitated the disqualification of Hoste and company, and not Boonen and company.

[Keith A]

Good point, as this picture shows there was certainly more than one track and the barriers were still down.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2006/apr06/roubaix06/Par704042.jpg

[Johny]

It's all officials' fault: why don't they block the train? Sue them.

[Keith A]

It does look like we haven't seen the end of this yet...

Marc Sergeant, Davitamon-Lotto director, and Johan Bruyneel are now considering submitting a complaint against the UCI because of the train incident. "The decision isn't human," Sergeant told Het Nieuwsblad on Monday morning. "We lose an important podium placing and a whole lot of ProTour points. I do feel bitter. I don't have a problem with the rules, but if Van Petegem, Hoste and Gussev are disqualified, why wasn't Boonen? It's a question of principle."

[Argos]

I get your basic point and agree with it. But would a smaller train have been less dangerous? You get hit by a train of any size (well, maybe not Lionel), and you're pretty well toast, no?

-Ray

Agreed, you got my point. Any train is a big train. What I was implying was though we only saw the TV Frame, there was no way they missed it coming.


Do we know that the race officials told Boonen and company to go ahead before the barriers came up?

We do not know one way or the other, though I am inclined to believe that everyone present could see more then us and could use their judgement that no Train was coming.

The DQ's come from the three cutting it close.

[Argos]

ooops. DP. (Double Post)

[Dr. Doofus]

did they neutralize cancellera while boonen et al waited?

(probably not)

if they neutralized everyone, then waiting is no problem...though it would be a beyotch to go from hammering, to waiting, to hammering again...ouch....


stupid decision

and cancellera is a beast

[Fixed]

bro don't you know yet that some cats get special treatment ?
it's in the rule books isn't it?
cheers

[Keith A]

Doof -- From what I saw on OLN, there was no neutralization while Boonen and the others were waiting for the train.

Argos -- So if the officials told Boonen not to go, then there is NO difference in the violations that occured as far as the letter of the law goes. Therefore, they should receive the same result as the ones that went before the train. I understand that this was potentially more dangerous -- but as Squint pointed out, they didn't know for a fact that another train was on the other tracks.

Of course this is all speculation as none of us were there to witness what happened. However, I still think it is a bad call. If you are going to DQ the first three riders, then DQ the second group as well -- or the vice versa.

[Argos]

Doof,

The rule is that if you are past the crossing, you keep going.

Everyone that is behind the crossing gets released and spaced in the rder they where stopped.

Theoretically, this would have meant PVP, Hoste, and Gustav would have gone once the officials told them and then Boonen and the others would have had to wait 20 seconds (or however far back they were) to get going again.

Theoretically because PVP, Hoste, and Mac Daddy G did not, in fact, stop.

[Dr. Doofus]

it didn't matter

closing 15 sec at 50kph?

nope

they knew cancellera had it

they just effed with those three because someone with a race badge is a wonk

[Argos]

I sorta agree. You know these guys sometimes pull roses out of their butts in these situations. Though they did not stop, they did slow and nearly stop, costing valuable time.

Could they have caught Cancellera?
Did the Psychological of knowing they got stopped help him? (as well as the extra 20 seconds)
Could they have caught him if he was a rabbit hanging out there?

Maybe not. Probably not. He had a great race. I just would have liked, like the rest of you, to have seen a straight up final 12k, no trains.