"Stop at Nothing" on Netflix

[45K10]

I am as tired as the next person when it comes to LA but it was a good watch none the less.
http://www.on-netflix.com/stop-at-nothing-the-lance-armstrong-story/16535

[bobswire]

Thanks for the heads up, I'll give it a watch.

[peanutgallery]

It was well done, just a reminder of all the crazy talk and lives ruined over many years. Reinforcement of how crazy and weird the whole affair is
Lots of pics of a grinning Och in the background, what gives there?

Might need to invest in some bandwith or something as the CIRC report is coming out Monday. The Clinic on CyclingNews may spontaneously combust - and the internet as we know it right behind it:)

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-to-publish-circ-report-on-monday

[bikerboy337]

I'll have to check that out as i spin tonight!

[goonster]

Who is the French guy with the toothy grin at the '99 banquet?

[DCilliams]

That was a great doc - especially the last few minutes.

[rugbysecondrow]

I watched it the other night, and it was entertaining.

Lance is who he is. What I disliked is the implication that he was alone in his doping. Cycling, as a sport, has been ruled by dopers forever, especially the last few decades. Voided titles, suspensions etc. It is a cheaters sport at the top level. The implication that the sport was clean but for Lance was ridiculous.

[commonguy001]

I watched it last weekend when I first noticed it and really enjoyed it.
Totally worth the time it takes to watch and was a great trainer flick.

[marciero]

I also thought I'd heard enough of LA but enjoyed it (if that's the word). A lot of interesting footage of Kimmage, early days, the Andreus, etc.

[ultraman6970]

They have the badger lemond movie also.

[bobswire]

They have the badger lemond movie also.

I liked that one too, after seeing it I thought Lemond was screwed much more by Hinault than anything LA ever did to him.

[ultraman6970]

Hinault was a real ass, the problem is that the peloton let him be an ass.

Lemond had bad luck, but you have to picture the things too... americans were no welcomed too much in cycling in europe back in the day, or was Hinault's team or die trying.

A lot of riders with a lot of potential die in the politics of pro and semi-pro peloton.

[Hindmost]

I have followed the LA story over the years; thought I had read and watched just about everything. "Stop at Nothing" is probably the best, watchable presentation of the events.

[velomonkey]

^^^^^^^ Lance was "my boy" in college. Loved the dude and knew something was up in '01 and have been following it all as a fan of the sport and knowing somewhere around '03 something isn't right. Then it was all - 'I was right!!!!'

The Armstrong Lie was Alex Gibney trying to salave his total mess - total fiction - this is way better. Great footage - watch it at least to see Lance in a La Vie Claire jersey. Great old footage and well done!!!!!

[ultraman6970]

What about that biopic movie?? anybody knows something about it?

[pro12tc]

I thought this movie was very good as well.

I must be the only dummy on the internet that had no idea Lance was doping through all those wins :(

[mg2ride]

Renews my dislike of Betsy.

ATMO she is a self righteous B. Damn attractive though, I can't blame Lance for hitting it.

[mg2ride]

I thought this movie was very good as well.

I must be the only dummy on the internet that had no idea Lance was doping through all those wins :(

Worry not, your weren't the only one and believing doesn't make you a dummy.

If you think the peloton is clean now, then yes, your a dummy.

[weisan]

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/255/3/b/big_fish_eat_little_fish_by_fizzyjinks-d2yjybh.jpg

[Andrevich4]

I really like the LA piece. Brought back a lot of memories of the old Lance well before he became an icon.

I liked that one too, after seeing it I thought Lemond was screwed much more by Hinault than anything LA ever did to him.

I thought "Slaying the Badger" made Lemond look like a spoiled kid who expected it to be given to him.

And I liked Hinault even more after seeing it. Which I didn't think possible after seeing him throw a couple of deserving guys off the TDF podium.

[marciero]

Renews my dislike of Betsy.

ATMO she is a self righteous B.

Righteous, perhaps. Held her ground all those years with nothing to gain and a lot to lose; in fact did lose a lot as a result.

[Black Dog]

Renews my dislike of Betsy.

ATMO she is a self righteous B. Damn attractive though, I can't blame Lance for hitting it.

Yep. Speaking the truth against terrible odds knowing that she was doing the right thing and having the conviction to take the consequences all along the way. Somewhere in your sexist rant I missed that fact. BTW lance was and is the self righteous player.

[weisan]

It's actually quite chilling if you think about it...

Betsy stood her ground when ALMOST EVERYONE around her... falters, hesitates, recants, self-preserves, betrays, cowers...

It's also interesting to read the public comments made here and elsewhere towards Betsy and Lemond...these two individuals who arguably endured the most pressure and paid the highest personal costs throughout the whole saga, and yet refused to give in.

Nope. Not saying they are perfect. Far from it.

Just saying that maybe this tells us more about ourselves, our society as a whole, than the other two fellas.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

"All is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

[peanutgallery]

without Betsy, Floyd and Greg we would still have Livestrong spinning the the -7 lie

Like others have stated, they paid the highest price to state the truth. -7 is still in damage control, does not compute

[oldpotatoe]

Renews my dislike of Betsy.

ATMO she is a self righteous B. Damn attractive though, I can't blame Lance for hitting it.

Self righteous? Don't see that. She was essentially an outsider to all this until she wasn't. If given a choice, I doubt she would want to be around LA ever.

VERY strong willed woman who doesn't like to lied to, or screwed with..no surprise. Frankie is so low key..must be an 'interesting' relationship.

BUT one of the 3 or 4 non cyclists, non dopers who LA tried to discredit and she pushed back..good for her.

The 'story' sure isn't over though.

[mcteague]

Self righteous? Don't see that. She was essentially an outsider to all this until she wasn't. If given a choice, I doubt she would want to be around LA ever.

VERY strong willed woman who doesn't like to lied to, or screwed with..no surprise. Frankie is so low key..must be an 'interesting' relationship.

BUT one of the 3 or 4 non cyclists, non dopers who LA tried to discredit and she pushed back..good for her.

The 'story' sure isn't over though.
Just don't understand the hate directed towards Betsy. With each new documentary my admiration of her grows. Very few of us could have withstood the attacks she did and stood our ground. Certainly that strong of a personality can upset people, especially when possessed by a woman. Not me, I think Frankie is a lucky man.

Tim

[mcteague]

Renews my dislike of Betsy.

ATMO she is a self righteous B. Damn attractive though, I can't blame Lance for hitting it.

If this is a serious comment then you are one sad sack. If just a joke, well, my opinion stands.

Tim

[Black Dog]

So many are so willing to blame the victim, especially if the victim is a woman. :( We need more women like her not less, hell, we need more men like her too.

[Andrevich4]

without Betsy, Floyd and Greg we would still have Livestrong spinning the the -7 lie

Like others have stated, they paid the highest price to state the truth. -7 is still in damage control, does not compute

I think Floyd is the one who brought down the empire. Felt he was wronged, did what he did, the rest is history. Were his motives right? Em... seems to me if he'd been put back on the payroll after his suspension he would not have come forward. At least not in the way he did.

Good on Betsy for doing the right thing throughout. An appropriate example for international women's day. I think her standing up to the drugs the entire time, even while knowing the costs, really makes her remarkable and then sticking to her story when it was asked of her. Doesn't strike me that she went out of her way to spread the stories either. She's a strong woman.

I can't say the same thing for Lemond, though. One of my early heroes whose comeback story was one of my first actual books when I was a kid. That and seeing him in the Tour DuPont got me interested in cycling. That said, I don't think that he held up well Slaying the Badger and his hatred of Armstrong seems almost like a pathology.

[peanutgallery]

Without getting into the ethical motivation of each, we would still have -7 doing Michelob commercials and cashing in on cancer. Thank the gods its over, I appreciate their contributions to doing the right thing...eventually

I think Floyd is the one who brought down the empire. Felt he was wronged, did what he did, the rest is history. Were his motives right? Em... seems to me if he'd been put back on the payroll after his suspension he would not have come forward. At least not in the way he did.

Good on Betsy for doing the right thing throughout. An appropriate example for international women's day. I think her standing up to the drugs the entire time, even while knowing the costs, really makes her remarkable and then sticking to her story when it was asked of her. Doesn't strike me that she went out of her way to spread the stories either. She's a strong woman.

I can't say the same thing for Lemond, though. One of my early heroes whose comeback story was one of my first actual books when I was a kid. That and seeing him in the Tour DuPont got me interested in cycling. That said, I don't think that he held up well Slaying the Badger and his hatred of Armstrong seems almost like a pathology.

[etu]

I agree that Betsy deserves respect as does Frankie Andreu. If their marriage lasted through all this drama, you have admit that they must have a pretty solid partnership going.

I have to confess that this movie was the "straw" for me and my Lance DVD's which were still pretty good for the occasional ride on the trainer. Especially liked that Sestriere climb of the '99 Tour. I am sure if I try riding with that on that video on again, all that will be going through my head will be Greg Lemond talking about the French viewer who immediate suspected doping - no pain or suffering in his eyes. Oh, well...

[Mark McM]

I think Floyd is the one who brought down the empire. Felt he was wronged, did what he did, the rest is history. Were his motives right? Em... seems to me if he'd been put back on the payroll after his suspension he would not have come forward. At least not in the way he did.

Good on Betsy for doing the right thing throughout. An appropriate example for international women's day. I think her standing up to the drugs the entire time, even while knowing the costs, really makes her remarkable and then sticking to her story when it was asked of her. Doesn't strike me that she went out of her way to spread the stories either. She's a strong woman.

Let's not forget Stephen Swart, former Motorola teammate of Armstrong. In 2004 he was the first to go on record with eyewitness testimony about doping on the Motorola team. He had nothing to gain, and everything to lose, when he spoke out. He was selected as the New Zealand Herald Sportsman of the Year in 2012 for having taken this stand.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10854154

[dancinkozmo]

Renews my dislike of Betsy.

ATMO she is a self righteous B. Damn attractive though, I can't blame Lance for hitting it.

http://cdn.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/your-check-asshole-light-is-on-abdbe.png

[TPetsch]

Came across this this morning, but we all ready knew this.

Report: Cycling officials allowed Armstrong to cheat.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/video/watch/report-cycling-officials-allowed-armstrong-to-cheat/vi-AA9yhCh

[mg2ride]

http://cdn.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/your-check-asshole-light-is-on-abdbe.png


This is a pretty civilized place. You're welcome to 'agree to disagree' but personal attacks aren't tolerated. We like it that way.

[Wesley37]

*cough*
ATMO she is a self righteous B

So... Is she not a person also?

[mg2ride]

*cough*


So... Is she not a person also?

Seems as though you can say damn near anything you want about someone as long as they don't post here.

[rugbysecondrow]

I am no expert in this, and I have only a peripheral knowledge of what transpired, but Betsy does come across as vindictive. Lance, her husband, teammates, everybody was playing a game and playing it a certain way. Honor amongst thieves? There is none, but they would have you believe that Lance was the only thief, and the rest were just victims. In truth, he was the best thief, and they all got taken by him. He was the better cyclist before doping and he was better while doping...even when cheating they couldn't hold his jock.

I also find it interesting, with both Lemond's wife and Betsy, the role the wives play and how intimately they are involved in the discussions and participation with the team. Is that the status quo for cycling? Anyway, that was new to me. Part of me was thinking, "why the hell are they involved in this" or "why didn't Frankie tell her to mind her own damned business" or manage her. It seemed he was a puppet of either Lance or Betsy, whomever had his balls on that particular day.

Lastly, and this might be a personal issue I have, but I find it dishonorable to report on what you see or hear in somebody's hospital room. People are at their weakest, on medication...it just seems wrong to take advantage of that. To use that information the way she did was wrong IMO.

[Black Dog]

This is a pretty civilized place. You're welcome to 'agree to disagree' but personal attacks aren't tolerated. We like it that way.

But personal/sexist attacks on Betsy are? :rolleyes: Maybe there is no place here for either...just say'n.

[Black Dog]

I am no expert in this, and I have only a peripheral knowledge of what transpired, but Betsy does come across as vindictive. Lance, her husband, teammates, everybody was playing a game and playing it a certain way. Honor amongst thieves? There is none, but they would have you believe that Lance was the only thief, and the rest were just victims. In truth, he was the best thief, and they all got taken by him. He was the better cyclist before doping and he was better while doping...even when cheating they couldn't hold his jock.

I also find it interesting, with both Lemond's wife and Betsy, the role the wives play and how intimately they are involved in the discussions and participation with the team. Is that the status quo for cycling? Anyway, that was new to me. Part of me was thinking, "why the hell are they involved in this" or "why didn't Frankie tell her to mind her own damned business" or manage her. It seemed he was a puppet of either Lance or Betsy, whomever had his balls on that particular day.

Lastly, and this might be a personal issue I have, but I find it dishonorable to report on what you see or hear in somebody's hospital room. People are at their weakest, on medication...it just seems wrong to take advantage of that. To use that information the way she did was wrong IMO.

She is his wife not his property. What her husband does is very much her business. And when he refused to get on the doping program he lost his job on the team and later was blackballed and lost his job on Versus and as a team manager and their family lost income...they had kids to feed and that is her business and not just his. So if he had balls he would have lied to his wife and the mother of his kids about his doping? He was no puppet, he made the choice to tell his wife the truth and not take the easy road of continuing to lie to her...that takes a set.

She was under oath and compelled when she gave that testimony and like some others, actually told the truth. To tell a lie would have been perjury. Betsy and Frankie asked to leave the room before Lance spoke to the Docs and Lance said they should stay. Listen to the message that the Oakley rep who lied about what she heard in the hospital room left on betsy's phone after betsy told the truth. Imagine a person accused of doing harm to your family was heard to say that he did it while in a hospital room being treated, would you apply the same standard if someone was asked to give testimony about what they heard in that room?

These things are not simple and black and white.

[rugbysecondrow]

1. She is his wife not his property. What her husband does is very much her business. And when he refused to get on the doping program he lost his job on the team and later was blackballed and lost his job on Versus and as a team manager...thanks Lance.

2. She was under oath and compelled when she gave that testimony and like some other actually told the truth. To tell a lie would have been perjury. Listen to the message that the Oakley rep who lied about what she heard in the hospital room left on betsy's phone. Betsy and Frankie asked to leave the room before Lance spoke to the Docs and Lance said they should stay.


1) Hey man, this isn't a wife/property conversation...the same thing would hold true for a woman who was the primary athlete and an overbearing husband getting into the business. Frankie was a huge cheater as well, and he even introduced doping to Hincapie and others. He lost his job because he wasn't as effective as other riders.

2) She came forward to David Walsh and other reporters well before the testimony (see below). So again, it seems wrong to bust out Lance and the hotel room, but then just skate on by when it is your own family.

They were a willing participant in this world, until Frankie didn't perform. The timing of the leaks coincide well with the timing of Frankie leaving the team. Again, it seems vindictive to me. Anyway, it really doesn't matter much, but I am suspect of people who are trying to appear squeeky clean, 100% innocent and above the fray, especially after participating and profiting from their prior bad behavior.


http://archive.freep.com/article/20140202/COL26/302020035/Betsy-Andreu-Lance-Armstrong-doping

Coming clean
Over the years, Betsy had befriended an American journalist living in Paris, and says after the 2000 Tour de France, she confided in him about the hospital room incident, the pressure on Frankie to dope, the lies and intimidation. He had no interest in pursuing the story, but he knew someone who might consider it.

He told Betsy he’d give her name and number to a Sunday Times reporter named David Walsh in London, who’d expressed doubts that Armstrong was riding clean. About that time, others had begun to question Armstrong’s success, too. French authorities began an investigation into doping on the U.S. Postal Service team in 2000.

Walsh didn’t call Betsy for another three years. But when he did, Betsy told him everything. The allegations were printed in his book with Pierre Ballester called “L.A. Confidentiel: Lance Armstrong’s Secrets,” (La Martinière, 2004) published in France. The book became the foundation for the first of many lawsuits filed against Armstrong in connection with the doping allegations.

[Black Dog]

1) Hey man, this isn't a wife/property conversation...the same thing would hold true for a woman who was the primary athlete and an overbearing husband getting into the business. Frankie was a huge cheater as well, and he even introduced doping to Hincapie and others. He lost his job because he wasn't as effective as other riders.

2) She came forward to David Walsh and other reporters well before the testimony (see below). So again, it seems wrong to bust out Lance and the hotel room, but then just skate on by when it is your own family.

Anyway, it really doesn't matter much, but I am suspect of people who are trying to appear squeeky clean, 100% innocent and above the fray. They were a willing participant in this world, until Frankie didn't perform. If there is one thing Lance seemed to respect, it was results, and Frankie didn't bring them.


http://archive.freep.com/article/20140202/COL26/302020035/Betsy-Andreu-Lance-Armstrong-doping

Coming clean
Over the years, Betsy had befriended an American journalist living in Paris, and says after the 2000 Tour de France, she confided in him about the hospital room incident, the pressure on Frankie to dope, the lies and intimidation. He had no interest in pursuing the story, but he knew someone who might consider it.

He told Betsy he’d give her name and number to a Sunday Times reporter named David Walsh in London, who’d expressed doubts that Armstrong was riding clean. About that time, others had begun to question Armstrong’s success, too. French authorities began an investigation into doping on the U.S. Postal Service team in 2000.

Walsh didn’t call Betsy for another three years. But when he did, Betsy told him everything. The allegations were printed in his book with Pierre Ballester called “L.A. Confidentiel: Lance Armstrong’s Secrets,” (La Martinière, 2004) published in France. The book became the foundation for the first of many lawsuits filed against Armstrong in connection with the doping allegations.

Sorry if I sounded to harsh about the property thing, I know that you were not making that parallel or heading down that road; I did not mean to paint you that way. I still think that she was not being overbearing, she certainly was his moral compass and he could have left her, she gave him the choice. From what is out there it seems that in that room Lance was coherent, and not under the effects of Meds, not so much in a compromised state. He just thought that the doping was normal and not an admission that anyone in that room would be surprised about. I think he spoke to this in the "The Armstrong Lie" documentary (On netflix and very good). As for Frankie not performing it was because he refused to get on/stay on the full Postal Doping Program.

[dancinkozmo]

This is a pretty civilized place. You're welcome to 'agree to disagree' but personal attacks aren't tolerated. We like it that way.

http://www5.pcmag.com/media/images/438753-how-to-be-a-jerk-in-internet-comments.jpg?thumb=y&width=740&height=426

[peanutgallery]

If Betsy was a vindictive, whatever....what was -7? I would love to hear that one

I can fill it in for you, a liar, a cheat, a bully, a criminal, a sociopath, a parasite on the hopes and dreams of the cancer community, and the best is for last...The Defendant. I hope the sentence is 10 years of cohabiting with Frank Day and forced to ride with a set of his cranks on every bike

Thank you Betsy (and others) for taking the unpopular stand and having the courage for doing the right thing and ignoring the the yellow wristband bandits. You're a much better quality of a human being than -7 would ever have the capacity to be

Carry on

I am no expert in this, and I have only a peripheral knowledge of what transpired, but Betsy does come across as vindictive. Lance, her husband, teammates, everybody was playing a game and playing it a certain way. Honor amongst thieves? There is none, but they would have you believe that Lance was the only thief, and the rest were just victims. In truth, he was the best thief, and they all got taken by him. He was the better cyclist before doping and he was better while doping...even when cheating they couldn't hold his jock.

I also find it interesting, with both Lemond's wife and Betsy, the role the wives play and how intimately they are involved in the discussions and participation with the team. Is that the status quo for cycling? Anyway, that was new to me. Part of me was thinking, "why the hell are they involved in this" or "why didn't Frankie tell her to mind her own damned business" or manage her. It seemed he was a puppet of either Lance or Betsy, whomever had his balls on that particular day.

Lastly, and this might be a personal issue I have, but I find it dishonorable to report on what you see or hear in somebody's hospital room. People are at their weakest, on medication...it just seems wrong to take advantage of that. To use that information the way she did was wrong IMO.

[oldpotatoe]

:eek:http://cdn.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/your-check-asshole-light-is-on-abdbe.png

:eek: yowser!!

And for peanutgallery Right above, what he said!!!

[rugbysecondrow]

Cycling reminds me of the mafia. Sure, sure, Sammy the Bull and others told the truth, they outed mobsters and they put Gotti and others behind bars...but they are still son of bitches. The fact that they told the truth, or some of the truth, does not make them less or better...they just hit a point in life where their self interests diverged from Lance's. Lance might have ordered the hits, but they carried them out and participated. None told the truth in their prime, when they weren't already busted or when they were actually sacrificing their whole careers by telling the truth. Lance told the truth, when it was in his self interest to do so. Period.

Betsy, she was a willing participant in the doping culture, even if she did so with her head in the sand. Her husband profited professionally from his own doping. The sanctimony is what I dislike.



If Betsy was a vindictive, whatever....what was -7? I would love to hear that one

I can fill it in for you, a liar, a cheat, a bully, a criminal, a sociopath, a parasite on the hopes and dreams of the cancer community, and the best is for last...The Defendant. I hope the sentence is 10 years of cohabiting with Frank Day and forced to ride with a set of his cranks on every bike

Thank you Betsy (and others) for taking the unpopular stand and having the courage for doing the right thing and ignoring the the yellow wristband bandits. You're a much better quality of a human being than -7 would ever have the capacity to be

Carry on

[Black Dog]

Betsy, she was a willing participant in the doping culture, even if she did so with her head in the sand. Her husband profited professionally from his own doping. The sanctimony is what I dislike.

This is factually incorrect. She never accepted doping. She called Frankie out and he admitted it when she suspected that he was juiced. She told Frankie if he kept doping she was done with him. She always maintained that it was cheating and wrong.

[rugbysecondrow]

She knew Lance doped, and she knew others did as well, and Lance had huge coat tails. Regardless of what she knew or chose to know about her husband, she knew Lance was doping and as a participant on the team, they all hit it big on his back and profited.

It reminds me of Michael Corleone in the Godfather 2, "we are all part of the same hypocrisy Senator". The Senator didnt pull triggers or order hits, but he took money from those who did.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[peanutgallery]

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/762/095/77c.jpg

She knew Lance doped, and she knew others did as well, and Lance had huge coat tails. Regardless of what she knew or chose to know about her husband, she knew Lance was doping and as a participant on the team, they all hit it big on his back and profited.

It reminds me of Michael Corleone in the Godfather 2, "we are all part of the same hypocrisy Senator". The Senator didnt pull triggers or order hits, but he took money from those who did.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mg2ride]

...And when he refused to STAY on the doping program he lost his job on the team and yet later landed a great job on Versus and as a team manager and doing very well with his family income ...

I fixed for you!

I only hope that someone ruins my career like that someday.

Without Lance there would have never been a Job with Versus and he would never even been consider as a team manager. For years after he left the team he and Betsy benefited greatly off of the coat tails of LA.

[Black Dog]

I fixed for you!

I only hope that someone ruins my career like that someday.

Without Lance there would have never been a Job with Versus and he would never even been consider as a team manager. For years after he left the team he and Betsy benefited greatly off of the coat tails of LA.

Both jobs that he lost when Lance decided to get back at him and Betsy. I guess that you somehow edited out that little bit...

[rugbysecondrow]

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/762/095/77c.jpg


Stay classy peanut

[peanutgallery]

Pretty sure that is a classic -7 retort to allegations and circumstantial evidence that all turned out to be true. Keep channeling the talking points, -7 loves it

Stay classy peanut

[bobswire]

Just don't understand the hate directed towards Betsy. With each new documentary my admiration of her grows. Very few of us could have withstood the attacks she did and stood our ground. Certainly that strong of a personality can upset people, especially when possessed by a woman. Not me, I think Frankie is a lucky man.

Tim

Just don't understand the hate directed towards LA. With each new documentary my admiration of him grows. Very few of us could have withstood the attacks he did and stood our ground. Certainly that strong of a personality can upset people, especially when possessed by a man. Not me, I think Hansen is a lucky woman. ;) The Devil made me do it!

[mg2ride]

Pretty sure that is a classic -7 retort to allegations and circumstantial evidence that all turned out to be true. Keep channeling the talking points, -7 loves it

Do you not understand that many (if not most) of us who "support"* Lance never questioned the allegations and circumstantial evidence? We assumed he was doping all along.

*"support" = don't hate = don't feel personally jilted = never worshipped him as a hero = just enjoyed the show

[peanutgallery]

I understand perfectly

Gee, for your sake - I hope The Defendant is going to be OK

Do you not understand that many (if not most) of us who "support"* Lance never questioned the allegations and circumstantial evidence? We assumed he was doping all along.

*"support" = don't hate = don't feel personally jilted = never worshipped him as a hero = just enjoyed the show

[bironi]

What about that biopic movie?? anybody knows something about it?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3083008/