Solution to PF30 woes?

[ceolwulf]

http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/03/04/review-bbinfinites-amazingly-smooth-one-piece-pressfit-bottom-bracket/

It's kind of sad that something like this needs to exist, but it looks like a good system.

[Peter B]

Hey that's brilliant!

No wait...I have idea...what if we were to thread both sides of the shell....and use...a one-piece BB assembly...:crap:

Solution, meet problem.

[ColnagoFan]

www.praxiscycles.com/

The absolute best, and easier, adapter I've used.

[Cicli]

Bummer we have to engineer solutions to a crappy bottom bracket engineered to save the manufacturer money. Oh, but it's blah, blah, blah, blah stiffer too.

I don't own a bike with a press BB and never will.

[oldpotatoe]

Bummer we have to engineer solutions to a crappy bottom bracket engineered to save the manufacturer money. Oh, but it's blah, blah, blah, blah stiffer too.

I don't own a bike with a press BB and never will.

10-farging-4

[toastedbread]

Now let's talk about BB30 creak...

[zzy]

And you need an air hammer to get it out? The pressfit BB 'solutions' are almost a parody of the problems they're designed to solve.

[Likes2ridefar]

small sample pool here but the last 3 bikes I've owned have been pf30 and not one single problem with them. the cervelo r5 and parlee ESX are/were both team bikes and no one else on the team had an issue either.

only problem I ran into was installing the bearings. i tried to just press it in with boards and a hammer but the alignment was all wrong so I was forced to get the proper tool that works for nothing but that.

[SoCalSteve]

Even though I bitched about it, my Moots RSL has a PF30 BB shell. It came with a Chris King bb and Shimano adapters...besides having to by the CK tool to do the install, it's been perfect and works just as well as external bottom brackets..:hello:

[Michael Maddox]

I'm just WAITING for someone to decide they can make a lighter crankset by removing all the threads going to a one-piece crank arm...or perhaps a cotter pin.
Perfect match for the press-fit bottom bracket.

[ColnagoFan]

I'm just WAITING for someone to decide they can make a lighter crankset by removing all the threads going to a one-piece crank arm...or perhaps a cotter pin.
Perfect match for the press-fit bottom bracket.

Didn't Look do this with their last bike? Some special BB/crank, I could've sworn it was 1 piece carbon, the whole shebang...

Edit: I was right!
HA!
http://www.lookcycle.com/en/us/route/accessoires/pedalier-zed-2.html

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/photos/2008/tech/features/look_road_intro_08/Look_2009_Zed_crank_spindle.jpg

[firerescuefin]

I understand the love for threaded BBs.

That being said, you get a Praxis or CK PF 30 BB, the problems are moot/mute ;) . If there is a bike out there that I want in PF30, it's not stopping me from buying it. I'm on my third PF bike...2 PF30s and 1 PF24....0 issues.

[notoriousdjw]

I understand the love for threaded BBs.

That being said, you get a Praxis or CK PF 30 BB, the problems are mute. If there is a bike out there that I want in PF30, it's not stopping me from buying it. I'm on my third PF bike...2 PF30s and 1 PF24....0 issues.

I agree. My first bike with PF30 started ticking about 500 miles in and I thought "here we go" based on the all the doom and gloom on the paceline. After replacing the SRAM bb with CK, the problem has been moot, and mute (but sadly not moots). At least the SRAM BB lived up to its reputation.

My second PF30 bike came with a crank and bb from serial offender FSA which was comically heavy (925 grams without bb!) and had chainring bolts made of chilled butter. I replaced the crank with something lighter so I could continue with my gluten-full diet. I left the BB alone figuring it would last 500 miles and be replaced by a CK. Much to my surprise the FSA bb has been completely silent. Now my 2 quietest drivetrains are both PF30.

[tigoat]

I understand the love for threaded BBs.

That being said, you get a Praxis or CK PF 30 BB, the problems are mute. If there is a bike out there that I want in PF30, it's not stopping me from buying it. I'm on my third PF bike...2 PF30s and 1 PF24....0 issues.

I see how the Praxis threaded concept would be a better interface to address those creaking problems but what did Chris King do to make their press-fit BBs better than others.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

I have the BBInfinite (with ABEC 3 SS bearings) on my Cervelo S3 so that I can run a Shimano crank on it. Smoothest BB I've every seen spin. No creaking, either.

Yes, it's a shame there is a need for such a solution to today's modern frames, but it's better than the alternatives that were out there for PF30 frames, even having to use the air hammer to extract the BB. I highly recommend BBInfinite.

I've also used the Wheels Mfg BB with outboard angular bearings on another PF30 frame with good success. No creaking, either.

Just wish they were all threaded BB's to avoid all these complicated hoops one has to jump through.

[lhuerta]

....or u can just install ur PF30 using Loctite 609 and do it right the first time. There is no such thing as press fit installation without including a retaining compound

[John H.]

I had a Moots RSL 29er that was a creak machine.
But that was a couple years ago when none of these bb options existed.
Between the bb and the hollowgram cranks I was doing nothing but chasing creaks.
I am confident that a BBinfinite would have remedied my issues.

I currently have a Cervelo S5 BBright- basically a wide PF30- I have a Kogel bb for 24mm Shimano cranks- it is both quiet and smooth.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

....or u can just install ur PF30 using Loctite 609 and do it right the first time. There is no such thing as press fit installation without including a retaining compound

All the problems I've ever had with nylon PF30 BBs included install with Loctite, and three days for it to cure, by a guy who is the best mechanic in OC. He recommends aluminum shell BBs like the Wheels Mfg option. And what if you don't want to use a BB30 crank? Those adaptors add more moving parts to the equation and potential for creak.

And if you're going to slap a big piece of metal in your BB to solve your problems, why not just have the mfr make it threaded to begin with? Saves a lot of time, money, and aggravation for the consumer.

[notoriousdjw]

I purchased some Loctite 641 (like 609 but lower strength) to use on the PF30 install but CK advises to use anti-seize only. If it starts to creak I will give the 641 a try but so far it has been unnecessary.

[11.4]

Three bikes with CK PF30 bottom brackets and one with the Praxis, and haven't heard a creak yet. I also have a beater BB30 with the Wheels Manufacturing adapters to fit a 24 mm crank, also no problems. All are installed with anti seize and nothing else.

I suspect there were evolutionary issues at work, both in bottom brackets and in how the bottom bracket shells were designed. As for press-fitting versus threading, we've press-fit headsets for years and that's a component that would screw up if a press fit wasn't effective. And the benefit of a press-fit bottom bracket isn't so much that it saves threading a bottom bracket; it's that we don't have to deal with the problems of threaded bottom brackets. Who has ever stripped a threaded BB shell? Or had to have it retapped after a paint job? Or had all that surface area corrode and gall? Or dropped a bottom bracket, bunged up the threads, and had to replace it? Or had a bottom bracket completely dependent on being squarely faced (which was technically easy with traditional frames but you should have seen my Look track frame with an uneven bottom bracket face set flush into a huge carbon fiber bottom bracket)? In short, I don't think we've really gone backwards.

[CAAD]

Now let's talk about BB30 creak...
Loctite RC609 and done.

[svelocity]

...but I thought the point of the PF30 and BB30 was to have a larger bottom bracket shell so the frame manufacturers would have some place to affix all of the oversized downtubes and chainstays. I think we were running out of real estate down there, no?

[foo_fighter]

This looks like a nice design too:
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/enduro-launches-torqtite-press-fit-bottom-brackets-43740/
Personally, I've never had an issue with my PF30 BB, but I'll probably go to BSA30 on the next build.

[josephr]

+1 on the Wheels --- no problems/creak and less expensive the Praxxis (though its a great option too).

here's the same conversation from back in November

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=158651&highlight=wheels+pf30

[Jeff Borisch]

Three bikes with CK PF30 bottom brackets and one with the Praxis, and haven't heard a creak yet. I also have a beater BB30 with the Wheels Manufacturing adapters to fit a 24 mm crank, also no problems. All are installed with anti seize and nothing else.

I suspect there were evolutionary issues at work, both in bottom brackets and in how the bottom bracket shells were designed. As for press-fitting versus threading, we've press-fit headsets for years and that's a component that would screw up if a press fit wasn't effective. And the benefit of a press-fit bottom bracket isn't so much that it saves threading a bottom bracket; it's that we don't have to deal with the problems of threaded bottom brackets. Who has ever stripped a threaded BB shell? Or had to have it retapped after a paint job? Or had all that surface area corrode and gall? Or dropped a bottom bracket, bunged up the threads, and had to replace it? Or had a bottom bracket completely dependent on being squarely faced (which was technically easy with traditional frames but you should have seen my Look track frame with an uneven bottom bracket face set flush into a huge carbon fiber bottom bracket)? In short, I don't think we've really gone backwards.

Definitely.

A long time ago Shimano perfected the affordable, disposable, all in one threaded bottom bracket. UN-whatever

Since then no one seems to remember how poorly threaded bottom brackets performed if the frame was not prepared properly. See all the complaints from a few years back about how much these newfangled external bearing BBs "bind" and "suck"

PF30 is the same way. Granted the tools are more expensive and less common.

[oldpotatoe]

Three bikes with CK PF30 bottom brackets and one with the Praxis, and haven't heard a creak yet. I also have a beater BB30 with the Wheels Manufacturing adapters to fit a 24 mm crank, also no problems. All are installed with anti seize and nothing else.

I suspect there were evolutionary issues at work, both in bottom brackets and in how the bottom bracket shells were designed. As for press-fitting versus threading, we've press-fit headsets for years and that's a component that would screw up if a press fit wasn't effective. And the benefit of a press-fit bottom bracket isn't so much that it saves threading a bottom bracket; it's that we don't have to deal with the problems of threaded bottom brackets. Who has ever stripped a threaded BB shell? Or had to have it retapped after a paint job? Or had all that surface area corrode and gall? Or dropped a bottom bracket, bunged up the threads, and had to replace it? Or had a bottom bracket completely dependent on being squarely faced (which was technically easy with traditional frames but you should have seen my Look track frame with an uneven bottom bracket face set flush into a huge carbon fiber bottom bracket)? In short, I don't think we've really gone backwards.

BUT how many headsets have you had to 'glue' in to keep from creaking(none?)
And if it does creak, grease, not loctite makes it work.

Perhaps it is crappy manufacturing. Bearing seats and surfaces not made well, to tight tolerances. Or bearing seats not parallel(seen those, combos of same a LOT!). Do yup, they creak and no amount of grease or anti seize will stop it so....glue 'em in there!

But considering the percentage of threaded vs pressfit BBs that have issues, the percentage in non threaded MUCH higher.

[bcroslin]

A mechanic friend of mine swears by the Parlee cups. Anyone have an opinion on them?

http://www.parleecycles.com/storage/gear/prod_lg_pf30_to_Shimano.jpg

[ultraman6970]

Oversize BBs tried to fix a nonexistent problem for the consumer, but at the side of the bike frame manufacturer fixed a lot of things, like get the frames built cheaper.

long live to threaded BB's specially italian ones :P

[oldpotatoe]

oversize bbs tried to fix a nonexistent problem for the consumer, but at the side of the bike frame manufacturer fixed a lot of things, like get the frames built cheaper.

Long live to threaded bb's specially italian ones :p

huzza!!

[Bstone]

Installed this for $11 and it never creaked again. English thread and square taper on everything.

Retrogrouchs rule.