Can we talk a little about Selle SMP?

[Dead Man]

I know these saddles are old news, but scanning through a search I didn't see a ton of stuff, especially not recent.

I rode an Evolution (edit: not Dynamic - my bad) for the first time yesterday.... finally trying it, after going through a few saddles since this thread: http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=155876

After getting it set up on the trainer, making about 4-5 adjustments before I thought it was right, I stopped probably another 4-5 times on the road to re-adjust. I've never experienced a saddle that had such a tight tolerance for position.. not even close. Usually I just match up the new saddle to the old saddle, make 1 or 2 adjustments, and that's pretty much it. I'm still not convinced I have this SMP set up right, even after all that fiddling.

Right now, it's pretty doggone nose-up, which surprises me. The dude at the bike shop said people usually have trouble nosing them up, so I initially set it up what I thought was fairly flat (my Flite Flow, the last saddle I am coming from, is nosed up quite a bit), but the very moment I put my butt down on it I realized that wasn't working, so I racked it back several degrees.

After getting out on the road, I found saddle height and for-aft were hard to get a feel for. I ended up moving the saddle forward about 2cm and up/down adjustments of as little as 1-2mm up or down made huge differences. Moving it forward did NOT produce the need to raise height that I would have predicted.

I've also noted that hip angle changes the leg reach quite a bit. What's comfortable leg extension on the pedals forward and flat is very uncomfortable sitting up on the tops or hands-free... in fact, I can't even really reach the pedals sitting completely up hands-free- I have to wobble back and forth just to pedal, and it hurts my butt.

This last bit makes me think I might still need to nose it up more... I suspect perhaps when I sit back, I'm riding too high up on the back of the huge radius of the back of the saddle, lifting me probably close to a full CM higher, stretching my legs out......?

Comfort was good. With such little contact area with the saddle, I was obviously a little dubious at first. Sitting on it wearing regular pants made me literally laugh out loud - it hurt. But I gave it another chance with a thin chammy, and suddenly it didn't hurt anymore (plus I probably had it better adjusted at that point). I was starting to get a little tender by the end of my 34 mile ride, but since I'm sitting in totally different areas of my crotch/butt on this saddle, I think that's still well within an acceptable break-in period.

The most important thing I observed - NO NUMBNESS IN MY TAINT. And that's 100% why I wanted to try this saddle. So if I can get the saddle position and butt position figured out, and assuming the tenderness goes away after a few rides, this might very well be the saddle of the future for me.

Thoughts on my position assessments??

[seanile]

ya definitely shouldnt be needing to tilt it back so severely. if anything it should be 2-5degrees tilted nose-down.
your hips will likely not be used to the position theyre prompted to get into. but id just recommend leveling it at an appropriate height, then pointing the nose down very slightly, and just ride through whatever awkwardness you feel for a little bit. see if you get used to it.
also, note that the saddle setback will be reduced compared to your previous saddle.
basically just start from scratch and try not to recreate anything from your prior saddle's position hah.

the saddle is constructed so that the rails are at an angle that eliminates the need to raise/lower it when you adjust for/aft..you figured this out quicker than most do.

or the dynamic may not be the right model for you, it's perfect for me and i love it dearly, but ive sat on other smps that just don't work for me.

[rnhood]

I think most fitters familiar with the SMP say it needs to be mounted flat, to nose down a little (-3 or 4 degrees). If you find the need to nose it up more and more, then I assume you are compensating for trying to slide forward while riding. In this case chances are the saddle is too high and needs to be lowered a little.

The "Glider" model is similar but with less profile (swag). So its a little easier to get along with imho. But this is personal and what works for one doesn't often work for another.

[Dead Man]

I wish I could post a picture, but Photobucket isn't working for me.

It's possible it's not nearly as nosed up as I'm making it sound. The rails are crazy jacked up, but you mention this is intentional so one doesn't have to adjust height with fore/aft....? And really, looking at it from the side, in a non-roadside, level view in my kitchen, I can't even tell if you'd call this "nose up" anyway. The rear of the saddle is still higher than that convex behind the nose.

Also - this is the Evolution, not the Dynamic. I misspoke before. They also had a Dynamic, but I recall the dude said he strongly suggest I get used to the style before trying that one, as it has almost no padding. I'm finally dialed into their saddle loan program, so I can try whatever they've got if this one doesn't work for me.

[Gern]

I have an SMP Pro, and I agree that small changes in angle make a big difference. Mine is slightly nose down. The biggest difference I noted was in setback, however. The saddle is much farther forward on the post than I would have initially supposed to replicate my hip position from a different bike (with a Dash saddle).

The saddle works very well with respect to comfort. I get pudendal nerve irritation quite easily, and the SMP is great in that regard.

[Ralph]

I went thru the loan program, rode each one quite a bit, and never could find real comfort. However....my pain comes from degenerative issues, and not from fit. So moved on. Have a friend who loves his.

[oldpotatoe]

Had a saddle sore/mass and a SMP(Glider) was the only saddle that worked but it is dead level..from a long straight edge along the 2 'high' points of the saddle. That line is level with the ground. The Glider also has the shallowest 'dip' in it as well. No pain whatsoever ANd for the first time, my actual, sitz bones hurt a bit after riding the first couple of times..means I probably haven't really been sitting on the things on all my other saddles(Rolls, Rolls Due).

[Dead Man]

Had a saddle sore/mass and a SMP(Glider) was the only saddle that worked but it is dead level..from a long straight edge along the 2 'high' points of the saddle. That line is level with the ground. The Glider also has the shallowest 'dip' in it as well. No pain whatsoever ANd for the first time, my actual, sitz bones hurt a bit after riding the first couple of times..means I probably haven't really been sitting on the things on all my other saddles(Rolls, Rolls Due).

OK - if that's how level is determined (and I guess that's the obvious way to do it, since it's how you'd do it with any other saddle), then this saddle is technically nosed down, not up. The rails tripped me out... they're pointed up like 6-7 degrees... and I guess I just wasn't understanding that this thing is designed to put your butt down into a concave..

So I probably should "level" this saddle before today's ride, and see what happens.

[Dead Man]

Photobucket is back up...

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/bkb0000/IMG_06901_zpszcerukue.jpg~original

[oldpotatoe]

Photobucket is back up...

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/bkb0000/IMG_06901_zpszcerukue.jpg~original

I sit on the back part of the saddle(well duh)..but if mine were nose down, I would slide forward, since my but would be on the part that's 'nose down'.

So mine is level, front to back, with a minimal 'dip' so it seems 'level-ish, to me.

[gasman]

I have an SMP Pro. i run it about 5 degrees nose down and fairly far forward compared to my previous saddles. All my weight is focused on my ischial tuberosities (sitz bones) but I have zero problems with numbness in my nether region.

[ptourkin]

Because of that slope in front of all the SMP models, it's important to agree on a nomenclature when discussing angle. Spec says to measure angle in the middle third and when you do that, the nose can still appear to be down, even when the level appears at 0, especially on the SMPs. I've been using the clinometer app on my Android and carefully noting the position of the phone.

[Dead Man]

It FEELS like the nose needs to come up a hair.... and since I can now see that it would need to come up a bit to be "level," front to back, on this weird shape, I think that lines up nicely. I'm excited to get on it again... being able to ride for as long as I want without having to worry about nerve damage would be a huge motivational booster for me.

[seanile]

your picture looks proper. try not to go into positive rise without riding for a bit.
for body-part locations...in your picture, your sit bones should position just about over the "lle" in "Selle", and your taint should be snug in the middle, which supports your perineum bones.

[p nut]

I've been curious about SMP's as well. But as a flat saddle rider (B17, Antares, various specialized), I don't know if these will work out. It looks very much rounded, and even pointy looking:

http://www.euroasiaimports.com/productcart/pc/catalog/smpback_1867_detail.jpg

I've had issues with saddles that were rounder, which would cause numbness. As explained by Cervelo:

http://www.cervelo.com//Media/images/Saddles-fig-6-d6879f41-48e2-4044-95d2-5c577e74481c-0-454x149.jpg
http://www.cervelo.com/en/engineering/ask-the-engineers/the-four-and-a-half-rules-of-road-saddles-.html

Anyone ride flat saddles that found comfort with these SMP's?

[tuscanyswe]

The big advantage with a flat saddle is that you can move for and aft while riding if one likes to do that. With smps you are pretty much stuck in the same position. Now i like that since its a great fit for me. I have evolution, forma and a composite. All 3 works good for me but my favorite is the composite i think followed by the evolution.

For me it wasn't love at first sight (duh) but after a few rides and getting over some pain from sitting only on parts that on previous saddles offered very little support it was quite obvious these saddles are very comfortable as well as totally eliminating numbness for me.

I like em so much i even had busyman make em look a tad better .)

Hopefully this is a saddle that can make you get on the bike for longer periods again. fingers crossed!

[Elefantino]

I ride with my Gliders dead solid level. But I like the "hammock" style of riding as opposed to moving fore and aft a bit.

But OP is right: Slight changes in SMP-dom seem to make more of a difference than they do with other saddles.

[LegendRider]

If you want a flatter saddle with a large cut-out, try a San Marco Mantra. Zero pressure on "soft tissue" and easier to move fore and aft.

[KWalker]

Not a fan of the SMP mantra for a few reasons that people have mentioned. I think that a lot of fit practitioners over estimate the amount of pelvic rotation and hip engagement needed to powerfully pedal a bike over different types of terrain. Most people get relief from the channel, but that is because they spend so much time on saddles that are not properly set and pinch their drain pipes. In most cases they are a great crutch for bike fitters that are unable to get a rider in a powerful position with a normal, supportive saddle. I'm sure they work fine for some, but I find the general shape a bit limiting.

[austex]

Have a look here, too:

http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/09/all-about-smps/

[bcroslin]

A lot of dudes in my neck of the woods ride SMP's and they look like yours. My fitter taught me a trick when trying to get a hammock-style saddle level. He places a clip board on top of the saddle and then uses a level to get to 0 degrees.

[binouye]

I've been curious about SMP's as well. But as a flat saddle rider (B17, Antares, various specialized), I don't know if these will work out. It looks very much rounded, and even pointy looking:

Anyone ride flat saddles that found comfort with these SMP's?

I ride a Selle Italia SLR flow on my road bike and I think they're considered pretty flat (used to be a plain SLR). I generally like flatter saddles to the more rounded ones.
For my fendered bike I've got an SMP Stratos, and a SMP Pro on one of the tandems. I find the SMPs work well for me too, and like them better when I'm wearing 'normal' clothes instead of padded lycra bibs. The SMPs do take more time to set up, as this thread brings up. Caveat: I've never ridden the SMP for more than ~35 miles at a time, just because of the bikes they're on.

[Dead Man]

I leveled the saddle out before last night's street-lamp sprint session ( :rolleyes: ), and lowered it a little also, and I think that helped... BUT... the issue with sitting up on the saddle remained. I was super unstable riding hands-free - I'd just sway back and forth in the lane, as my weight shifted from one side to the other on the saddle... no stability at all.. plus, my legs still felt over-stretched sitting up.

Pretty lame. Flattened out, hips rotated forward, no problem at all - very comfortable. This is HUGE... I've probably never gotten my hips rotated that far forward before. But as soon as I sit up, my sit bones just can't find a stable place on the thing.. they slide off one side or the other

[tuscanyswe]

I can sort of relate or at least understand the issue with slipping of the saddle to the sides when sitting up. On smps one is sitting almost elusively on the sit bones and if you got the wrong width i can c how one would fall to one or the other side. It almost feels like one is sitting on 2 1cm patches, at least it does for me.

Did you have the evolution? I believe the stratos is a tad wider if my memory serves me correct, perhaps that could help remedy the issue slightly tho it will likely improve with time and exp on the saddle as well.

[seanile]

goood.
but that whole legs-feel-like-theyre-reaching thing makes me think your seat is still too high

[Dead Man]

goood.
but that whole legs-feel-like-theyre-reaching thing makes me think your seat is still too high

Word... but they feel perfect, flattened out on the drops! Only feels overreached sitting up. I'll try dropping another 2mm today.

There is another potential issue here, though - I've been riding 175mm cranks with a 31" inseam. It hasn't been an issue (though I've been trying to find a 165mm 7950 for months), with other saddles... but given that this saddle, as we've all experienced, is so sensitive to position - I'm perfectly willing to consider the possibility that my legs are just too stretched out with the long cranks.

However - that doesn't address the saddle width issue, if that's what's causing my stability problem.. and I think that is the issue, there.

[milkbaby]

I've had issues with saddles that were rounder, which would cause numbness. As explained by Cervelo:

http://www.cervelo.com//Media/images/Saddles-fig-6-d6879f41-48e2-4044-95d2-5c577e74481c-0-454x149.jpg
http://www.cervelo.com/en/engineering/ask-the-engineers/the-four-and-a-half-rules-of-road-saddles-.html

Anyone ride flat saddles that found comfort with these SMP's?

I have Fizik Antares Versus on 2 bikes and a Selle SMP Forma on another bike. The SMP came on it when I bought it second hand, and I liked it just fine so never replaced it. I think I was just lucky that the width of the SMP works out good for my individual anatomy, as the Forma is simply a leather cover over the plastic saddle without padding.

For OP, I have my saddle set up similar, just a little nose down from flat horizontal. I can ride either deep in the drops or sitting up no-hands without problem, so it may be either a width issue, saddle height, or possibly even both in your case.

[jischr]

I have a Glider and two Stratos, all bought used. All were installed level, basically mid rail position, with the height measured from the BB center through the seat post to the top of the saddle the same as the saddle it replace. I believe that’s SMP’s recommended starting point. I haven’t found a reason to change from that. If I do change one it will be the Glider since the width is a little bit more than the Stratos and I ‘think’ I can feel more inner thigh rub on the Glider, could be my imagination though.

One thing I have noticed with the SMP saddle is that I do rotate my pelvis forward more and have a flatter back. When riding my Italia Flite Gel Max I rode more hunched over and had numbness if on the drops for a long period even though it is cut out. The SMPs have been installed since winter started and I haven’t gone more than 30 miles at a time on any of them. ‘Butt’ given the perceived improvement I don’t anticipate having any issues.

I don't have an issue riding hands free for 30-40 seconds to stretch my upper body but I've never tried longer on any bike/saddle combination.

[oldpotatoe]

I leveled the saddle out before last night's street-lamp sprint session ( :rolleyes: ), and lowered it a little also, and I think that helped... BUT... the issue with sitting up on the saddle remained. I was super unstable riding hands-free - I'd just sway back and forth in the lane, as my weight shifted from one side to the other on the saddle... no stability at all.. plus, my legs still felt over-stretched sitting up.

Pretty lame. Flattened out, hips rotated forward, no problem at all - very comfortable. This is HUGE... I've probably never gotten my hips rotated that far forward before. But as soon as I sit up, my sit bones just can't find a stable place on the thing.. they slide off one side or the other

Maybe it's too high. Can you unclip, stretch out a leg with the pedal as far as it can go from saddle(crank aligned with the seattube) and put your foot instep on the pedal?, Without leaning to that side?).

Maybe ya need a wider one?

[bcroslin]

Saddle is still too high. Keep dropping it until the bike is stable and your hips don't rock. Your knees are likely going to feel like they're up around your ears but you'll get used to it.

[bewheels]

In case you guys have not seen this... http://www.sellesmp.com/smp4bike/en/support/assemble-and-adjust-saddle

A potentially dumb question - is the curved down nose part of the comfort? Does it have a purpose?

[Dead Man]

I lowered the saddle, then lowered it again, then lowered it again..... but as I was bumping it downer and downer, it occurred to me that this saddle is a lot taller than the Selle Italia I had on there - and I don't actually remember if I deliberately took that into account when I switched to the SMP.

Either way, I now thoroughly agree- the saddle was way too high. It might still be a hair too high. So thanks for that observation, gents.

I can sit up with a lot more stability now, but I am definitely going to try a wider saddle after this'un. Looks like the Evolution is actually one of their narrower saddles - the dynamic is something like a centimeter wider, and I wanted to try it next anyway.

[rnhood]

... Does it have a purpose?

Yes, it prevents catching the short when sitting back down.

[seanile]

Glad to hear your dialing it in well, B.

[Dead Man]

Update for the archive -

The Evolution proved too narrow for me. I also wanted a little less padding. Researching the different models, I next tried a Forma... 8mm wider at 137mm and NO padding (my shop didn't have a Dynamic). This worked better - I was more stable, and felt like I could really pivot and get into great form on this saddle, but with no padding, and still feeling slightly too narrow (probably a combination of no padding + the narrow design of all these saddles), I bailed after a couple rides. Flat, I felt totally fine on it... but I just can't stay flat for 60 miles straight, and sitting up hurt and made my sit bones roll around.

Finding a Dynamic for sale on our local race association mailer, I think I finally found my saddle. I can sit on it, get flat on it, ride upright/hands free on it (though still not nearly as stably as with my previous Selle Italias). I just wish it wasn't 260g.... sheesh. Guess a carbon-railed variety is on the shopping list.

So this case might very well be closed! Thanks for everyone's input - it was definitely helpful

[personicus]

The SMP (aside from the IT calluses I developed) saved my...stuff

That said, it's one of the rare saddles I think without question you need to have fitted for you by a pro. I've always been able to eyeball my fits without and pain or discomfort. The SMP really needs to fit your sitbones and riding position perfectly. When it does, it's magic.

[tuscanyswe]

Im aslo a fan. Cant c me going to another saddle for quite a while. I just picked these up at the post. A composit and an evolution tom down under.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7285/16738060057_f14b8f42a6_b.jpg

[Dead Man]

Im aslo a fan. Cant c me going to another saddle for quite a while. I have these waiting for me at the post, kinda excited as I've only seen the pics.

A composite and an evolution from down under..

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8583/16223310624_e89190dc38_z.jpg

Wow... best looking Selle SMPs I've ever seen. Post up pics of 'em on the bikes, if you would

That's one drawback of this saddle that we haven't even touched on.... they are f'ing ugly as sin. Totally worth it to save my taint, though.

[tuscanyswe]

Cheers! Not sure they will look great on my current bikes but i had to have them n treat myself to something for my birthday :) if a total clash on the the current bikes one or 2 better suited will come along sooner or later n ill post some pics!

[personicus]

Where can we get those proper looking SMPs?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tuscanyswe]

they are busyman custom saddles. You send him a saddle and he waves his wand i guess, the next thing you know they look like this. Well at least a year later they will.

Very pleasant to deal with and seems like a super nice guy. The process do take a while (or rather the que is long) and they are rather expensive, but i figure i spend more than 1500h on a saddle every year so it was worth it.

[GRAVELBIKE]

I tested a few (http://www.gravelbike.com/?p=3959) of the SMP saddles, and found the their Plus model to be very comfortable. My preferred saddle is a Selle Anatomica--which is quite flat when viewed from behind--but the Plus works very well (especially off-road).

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7629/16781203606_b21f4ed4a6_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ryU4bE)