campagnolo shamal mille

[Martygarrison]

Anyone have any experience with these wheels?

[zmudshark]

Anyone have any experience with these wheels?

Any experience is likely to be very little.
They seem like the new consumer level uber wheelset, though.

I'll be glad to test some out.

[pdmtong]

Curious as well as I like the look a lot

Both local boutique lbs have them on floor bikes. Outstanding aesthetics but some talk about not being able to use same pad as hyperon bota etc.

Is this same / similar to exalaith? I don't mind the breaking buzz on my mavics but wonder how the shamals sound

[lhuerta]

...the new red Campagnolo pads can be used on both carbon and alum rims (including the Mille), however, in order to take full advantage of the new Mille braking track tech, the new blue pads are required, which apparently are not interchangeable with carbon rims (for optimal braking the blue pads are recommended).

[CSKeller]

If they are anything like the older (2009) Shamals, they will be outstanding!!
I have the 2 way fit Shamals on my Look 695. Love them! I'm 5'11" and 200 lbs and find these wheels to be fantastic! Super solid and stiff and bombproof!

I've used them since day 1 with tubeless...great ride! Not premium tubular ride but very, very nice and tons better than any clinchers I've ever ridden!

You can't go wrong with Campagnolo wheels.

[beeatnik]

Just got the Fulcrum Racing Zero Nites. Will report back in a few weeks.

Wanted the Shamals but didn't want to spend an extra 2 bills and I kind of prefer the rear lacing of the Fulcrums.

[jds108]

I kind of prefer the rear lacing of the Fulcrums.



What's the difference? They're both 21 spoke triplet paired aren't they? I googled some pics and the only difference I think I see is that the campy branded wheels have the three spokes closer to each other at the rim.

[beeatnik]

^the scientific esplanation is this: Fulcrums look less goofy.

And they cost less.

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=102709&start=30#p879166

[Anarchist]

Both the Campy and Fulcrum branded wheels will be wonderful, no doubt.

Great hubs, great rims and those God-awful proprietary spokes.

If I could ever convince myself that I DON'T hate that triplet lacing I may try them. But I really don't like that spoke lacing.

[Kentf14]

The new wheels are no doubt every bit as nice as the last gen Shama Ultra 2-Way wheels. I picked up a pair of the outgoing style from Ribble for ~$750 recently to give them a try.
Good: Nice hubs with ceramic bearings, light, tubeless compatible
Bad:
1. Too narrow and I believe the new Mille wheels are the same width. Campy needs to make these wider. All of my other wheels are much wider (ENVE & H Plus Son). I totally prefer the road feel of the tire being opened up a little. Don't get me wrong, I used to roll 19C tires back in the late 80s when in high school, I do like the more modern rim widths these days.
2. As much as I want to like the triplet paired spokes... they're ugly.
3. Really hard to get a tire on the rear wheel due to super tall sidewalls. I'm guessing that this would be a real PITA when flatting out on the road (tubeless or tubed)

I've ended up defaulting to my H Plus Son Archetypes laced to King R45s by Justin @ Luxe for my go-to daily wheels. They're light, comfortable and look kick-a$$ on my Firefly ;)

[Duende]

+1

Waiting for the 23c version. Probably won't be for a while though. :(

[Hermes_Alex]

The Shamal Mille, Mavic Exalith, Hed Ardennes Black et al. are all different names for the same metal treatment, Plasma Electrolytic Oxidation. It's very expensive, and there are very very few people who have the equipment to run the procedure.

The thought behind it is that it is so hard that it can be expected to never be worn through in a wheel's expected lifetime, so you can make brake tracks thinner (as you no longer have to compensate for rim wear), can make a pattern in the brake track which would otherwise be quickly worn away without the coating, and a few other little benefits like that.

[rgr111]

Question about the rim width -- are all Campy wheels narrow or is that just a Shamal thing? I switched from HEDs to some Eurus last year and, aside from the obvious width difference, didn't notice too much of a change in the fit. I guess I never considered that Campys wouldn't be 23mm.

[beeatnik]

The new Bora clinchers (35 and 50) are 24mm wide.

[Kentf14]

Based on the spec data found here:
http://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_204_Technical_specifications_wheels_range_Camp agnolo_2015.pdf

All Campy wheels are ~20mm width EXCEPT the Boras which are ~24mm.

[Hermes_Alex]

That's interesting that they're starting to go wide - in the past, european firms have pretty diligently stuck to narrow rims so that they could remain within ETRTO guidelines for 23c tires, and also due to the continued preference for narrow rims over there.

[gfk_velo]

In fact, experimental data for wider rims / tyres is still at best equivocal and the gains made are in a laboratory, rather than a real-world situation.

Many European manufacturers have yet to be fully convinced by the real-world application of the wide envelope / wide rim scenario, whilst many less traditionally minded / more commercially driven markets are prey to following the latest trend.

There is no doubt that in some situations a bigger envelope does help with rolling resistance, and with a properly designed rim in some circumstances and at specific yaw angles is more aero - but the number of caveats is startling and for 99.9% of users, the gains are, to be blunt, irrelevant - they would benefit more from spending less money on equipment and more money on taking time off work to train properly or to get correctly positioned on their bikes ...

I'm no Luddite (as the head tech for Campagnolo's main Service Centre in the UK, I can't be ...) but a careful line has to be drawn between a perceived and a real world adavantage and the trade-offs to gain that advantage have to be properly understood ... so yes, there is a structural advantage to G3 spoking in a Campagnolo wheel (as distinct from the execution of the 2:1 pattern used in Fulcrum) for instance - but there is a disadvantage too - there is a longer unsupported area of rim and great care has to be taken in tensioning and truing a G3 wheel ... 2-way-fit rims offer the opportunity to use tubed or tubeless tyres, but getting a tubed tyre on is more challenging (although with good technique is not actually *that* hard), and so on.

So yes, Shamal Mille uses PEO which is an anodisation technique that influences not only surface hardness but also the crystal structure of the materal underneath but it requires the new Campagnolo blue brake blocks for best all-weather performance and it retains a 21.5 mm wide rim, designed to work best with 700 x 23c tyres to allow quick and easy interchangeability in the same bike, with other rims of similar width and configuration, which are still by far the most common in the market.

It's also worth noting that there are some "aero road" and TT bikes, especially, where a 25c tyre's profile won't actually fit into the frame ...

Hopefully that hasn't muddied the waters too much ...

Graeme
Velotech Cycling Ltd
Campagnolo Main UK Technical and Service Centre.

[velomonkey]

Ok, so I'm the dude above, but that also means I don't have an agenda.

I'm not sold on wide rims myself. Let me step back, all things being equal yea I will take a 20 to 22mm wide rim. These 23 to 25mm - no. I had some HED Belgium + rims built to some King R45s - I just felt slow.

I got a pair of Fulcrums 1s on closeout at $500. This wheel is awesome. Just a great solid and good looming wheels. Mine are 2 way. A few observations.

Tubeless is awesome, but Fulcrum isn't going 2 way anymore : ( People just need to try tubeless and they will see, it works, it's not tubular, but it's close.

The sidewalls are wicked tall - like too tall. Total PITA to change a clincher (or tubeless obviously).

I would love to hear how the ZERO NITEs ride - that wheel looks great.

[Joachim]

Campy specs say 20.5mm width


In fact, experimental data for wider rims / tyres is still at best equivocal and the gains made are in a laboratory, rather than a real-world situation.

Many European manufacturers have yet to be fully convinced by the real-world application of the wide envelope / wide rim scenario, whilst many less traditionally minded / more commercially driven markets are prey to following the latest trend.

There is no doubt that in some situations a bigger envelope does help with rolling resistance, and with a properly designed rim in some circumstances and at specific yaw angles is more aero - but the number of caveats is startling and for 99.9% of users, the gains are, to be blunt, irrelevant - they would benefit more from spending less money on equipment and more money on taking time off work to train properly or to get correctly positioned on their bikes ...

I'm no Luddite (as the head tech for Campagnolo's main Service Centre in the UK, I can't be ...) but a careful line has to be drawn between a perceived and a real world adavantage and the trade-offs to gain that advantage have to be properly understood ... so yes, there is a structural advantage to G3 spoking in a Campagnolo wheel (as distinct from the execution of the 2:1 pattern used in Fulcrum) for instance - but there is a disadvantage too - there is a longer unsupported area of rim and great care has to be taken in tensioning and truing a G3 wheel ... 2-way-fit rims offer the opportunity to use tubed or tubeless tyres, but getting a tubed tyre on is more challenging (although with good technique is not actually *that* hard), and so on.

So yes, Shamal Mille uses PEO which is an anodisation technique that influences not only surface hardness but also the crystal structure of the materal underneath but it requires the new Campagnolo blue brake blocks for best all-weather performance and it retains a 21.5 mm wide rim, designed to work best with 700 x 23c tyres to allow quick and easy interchangeability in the same bike, with other rims of similar width and configuration, which are still by far the most common in the market.

It's also worth noting that there are some "aero road" and TT bikes, especially, where a 25c tyre's profile won't actually fit into the frame ...

Hopefully that hasn't muddied the waters too much ...

Graeme
Velotech Cycling Ltd
Campagnolo Main UK Technical and Service Centre.

[Kentf14]

Thanks for the detailed and informed response Graeme.

Kent

[pdmtong]

Bumping an older thread.

Anyone have a set 2015 shamal mille? Comments on fulcrum zero nite welcome too.

Would like to know how you like the wheels as well as the keronite/PEO surface wear/durability and noise (if any).

[Waldo]

Both the Campy and Fulcrum branded wheels will be wonderful, no doubt.

Great hubs, great rims and those God-awful proprietary spokes.

If I could ever convince myself that I DON'T hate that triplet lacing I may try them. But I really don't like that spoke lacing.

I have triplet-laced Fulcrum 1s on two bikes and both sets of wheels are great. I was reluctant initially because of the appearance of the lacing, but realized that I don't look at the rear wheel's lacing pattern much while I ride.

[pdmtong]

I have triplet-laced Fulcrum 1s on two bikes and both sets of wheels are great. I was reluctant initially because of the appearance of the lacing, but realized that I don't look at the rear wheel's lacing pattern much while I ride.

Nor does it matter when the wheel is spinning!

[Tim Porter]

pdmtong: I have a set of the 2015 Shamal Milles and rode them extensively this summer, plus a week in Tuscany in early September. They are by far the best aluminum wheels I've ever ridden. Ultra smooth with Veloflex Corsa 25mm tires. The braking is unbelievable--so strong and smooth. Not a single squeal in approx. 1000 miles. The brakes make a very satisfying hissss as you slow down, but it's whisper quiet. On the one wet day we had in Tuscany, the braking was still even and powerful. I'm a big guy(well over 200 lbs) and they were stable at speeds up to 45 mph, which is as fast as I cared to go on those occasions that I hit those speeds. I'm sure they could go faster!

You do have to use the proprietary blue brake pads, which seem to last a long time--no appreciable wear so far. There has been zero wear on the brake tracks so far, and no discoloration. I am such a big fan that I just bought a second set . . . . I'm going to put 28mm Ones on them and they'll be my intended wheel for a trip back to Tuscany at Giro time in May, probably on my orange Kirk. I really think they'll be amazing on the strade bianche.

HTH, Tim

.http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a583/porterphoto1/IMG_2346_zpsc3flgk5d.jpg