Goodbye for a while, my friends

[Frank]

OK

[alancw3]

i can relate. my favorite ride is still my 1974 bob jackson 531 reynolds with nuovo record gruppo. still use campy nuovo record track pedals and clips on that bike. recently purchased an aegis aro svelte and while nice there is just something about it that is just like every other high end bike now a days. but i guess what really got me thinking about the whole state of biking today is when one of my neighbors told me he was selling his mint condition 1998 vw bettle with 7950 total miles on it for $7000. and here i am looking at bikes selling for that kind of money. what a reality check that was for me. funny how we get caught up in the hype of things in life. it's a bike!!!

[cycleman_21]

I hope you find your peace Frank, I know I will miss your posts.
There's an old saying "your either moving ahead or or going backwards, there's no staying in one place" I hope you find what your looking for back there :) , just kidding, good luck.

Ron C

[Ray]

See you around Frank. I can relate to what you're saying. Although I'm not married to a particular material or stem type, I've gotten to the point where I have a frame that's just perfectly dialed for me and I have the gear I like on it and I just like to ride and not think about equipment so much lately. I still love hanging out here, but I'm less interested in hearing about people's new bikes and more in hearing about their riding experiences and general perspectives on other stuff. New bikes don't do much for me these days either, but I'm not making any promises about what I will or won't buy somewhere down the line!

Hope to hear from you again if you make it back here. If not, happy trails!

-Ray

[Too Tall]

Frank *** are you blathering about???? For crying out loud honest and intersted opinions as yours ARE what makes our conversations so interesting. Of the (cough) regulars here I'd reckon there is an even holding of bikes that meet your expectations and with the rest who can hold an even discourse on the subject fer r' agin "it" can engage a reasonably intelligent if not effin' humorous discussion. So FRANK ***??? Goodbye??? More like HELLO to the new Frank. Best to you my friend, Josh.

[TimD]

Maybe we should all provide some honest and open feedback to our nearest "Shimano Authorized Internet Retailer"

TimD

[Smiley]

What Too Tall said , why leave when your voice and opinion here matter , I just bought a steel bike cause like you I forgot how much I liked steel. Please reconsider .

[Kevan]

when someone who doesn’t fall into the “norm” becomes so disenfranchised that they choose to pick up their baseball glove and cap and leave this game rather than stick it out and try to influence others with their differing opinion. I have zero argument with anything Frank had to say. He’s absolutely right about the state of cycling today. But to lose the talent such as his, that insight, that different perspective, to me, is a major blow to this forum.

[dbrk]

Frankpal,
I left this place (and the conversation about bikes in most public ways) awhile back for about three months. I felt, exactly as I do today about the industry's trends in design, pricing, marketing, i.e., utterly and cynically disaffected, and I also felt like there were fewer and fewer folks with whom I shared what part of the passion remains in me. Sure there are "other" conversations about bikes we might frequent with different preferences and I have been part of those places for years (and years). But they have their weirdness too when it comes to the _bikes_ and the collectors (who seem to win disdain around here just as racers and those that race are considered a superior breed...). In other places some guys just collect and really don't ride and I say, good for them!, though I'm not quite sure I totally get it (everything to be said good about diversity in bicycles), and then there are the curbside finders with a thrift store only disdain for anything new (no names!): it's certainly a mixed bag of interests and that's a good thing and, for me, a frustrating thing because I don't see myself as any of those things particularly or only. I'm not sure who shares or really cares about the stuff I still love but we all want someone to talk to or some place where we can just rant our preferences. Strangely enough, all of this led me deeper into the bike "business" (without quotation marks would imply profit, and that's NOT a bad thing, it's just not my thing) because I wanted to make bikes that I would like to ride and in the styles that most interest me.

But here's my point (you will not miss my long-windedness, I am sure; BD hasn't even read this far...:-): I came back for the _people_, not the bikes and not even their particular interest in bikes. Sure, bikes, Serotta's wondrous bikes, are the pretext about which we gather, but strangely enough, I have met real, true, and good friends in cycling cyberland and many of them here. One of the best friends I ever had in life, Dr. Dennis Cotcamp, a person of extraordinary character and gifts, I met on the old, old iBOB. You may also remember Dennis who only very occasionaly spoke up. We were as good friends in person (after many years of just correspondence) as we remained on-line. My life is so much the richer for this man, and for others. Dennis isn't with us anymore but I miss this friend of mine every single day and I would miss folks here too, a lot. There are folks _right here_ in Serottaville that I know only because of Serotta, and I count them among my very good friends. Some I have yet to meet in person. I would so much like to meet you. In fact, there are so many friends that I would feel awkward naming them for fear that I might leave someone off such a list, it would be so long!

Whatever we dispute, fail to share, or just shout about, there are folks here truly worth all the time spent. In fact, I feel even like I have friends among some who are my vocal "adversaries" in expressing cycling interests and yet I am the better for it.

So a second point: sign-off for awhile, it sure did me a lot of good, but come back when you like, and don't worry a thing because your friends will welcome you back as authentically as they were sad to see you leave. Come back to talk to your friends. The rest is details. And take care of yourself so we can see you again soon.

dbrk

[spiderman]

and doing the right thing at the right time for the right reasons...
...here's a poem for you that helped me decide to take a break
for awhile, awhile back.
maybe it will encourage you, too.


A STANDING GROUND

However just and anxious I have been,
I will stop and step back
from the crowd of those who may agree
with what I say, and be apart.
There is no earthly promise of life or peace
but where the roots branch and weave
their patient silent passages in the dark;
uprooted, I have been furious without an aim.
I am not bound for any public place,
but for ground of my own
where I have planted vines and orchard trees,
and in the heat of the day climbed up
into the healing shadow of the woods.
Better than any argument is to rise at dawn
and pick dew-wet red berries in a cup.

Wendell Berry

like dbrk says...
...it's all about relationships
not things...
so, i look forward to meeting you at some point in the future,
riding together
and hearing more about
what you're learning,
and what your heart has to say...

[Erik.Lazdins]

Frank,
Don't leave - just wait 5 years and will see "what sticks" About 10 years ago CF started showing up, now its everywhere and most of it isn't good. Some of it is very good. This phase cannot and will not last.

I'm sure you have a good stockpile of rideable stuff until better items once again show up.

The bike industry is in the CF bubble and it will eventually burst.

Have a good ride,
Erik

[Fixed]

bro what goes around comes around at least for some I always enjoyed your bike post even if they were a little to small for me . classic steel bikes will always be in bro .i.m.h.o. cheers

[Big Dan]

Frank come on, you have to look around bro. For example Nashbar had 105 STI's for 119 a couple of weeks ago. I'm stuck at 9 speed for a while and have extra STI's and DT shifters also. We will survive....

Stay here for the people.......... :banana:

[Ahneida Ride]

Frank

Prices are going ballistic because we are dealing in worthless Federal Reserve Notes (frn), not in Dollars. The fed creates these green shopping coupons outa thin air and the banks then expand their supply up to a factor of 10 using fractional reserve banking. I call the process frnacation. So 1 Billion frn, created outa thin air, gets expanded to 10 billion frn. :eek:

Modern Money Mechanics ( published by the Chicago fed ) (http://landru.i-link-2.net/monques/mmm2.html) see figure at the end of page 11.

Bottom line is we all get diluted. :crap: One simply cannot not store wealth in frn.

In the not too distant future, the fed note's prominence and hegemony will be lore as the rest of the world seeks a more stable resource for storing purchasing power and we will see staggering price increases and the extinction of the American middle class.

Many prices have already jumped by a factor of 10 since 1970. We ain't seen nothin yet !

Lets also note that: The fed is a Private Central bank, NOT an arm of the US Goverment. It was created on Dec. 24, 1913. and is our nation third central bank. The second was defeated by President Jackson in 1836.
US citizens were not required to accept the notes of this second central bank under penality of law as we required to accept notes of the fed.

Inflation is not higher prices, it is a hidden tax caused by to many phony frns floating around. Imagine 1,000,000 Legend Ti's appearing outa thin air. What would that do to the value of a Serotta Legend?

[victoryfactory]

Yikes, Frank

Don't be so dramatic.
This forum is as much about life as it is about bikes.

Stick around and continue to contribute.


VF

[Chief]

Frank,

I respect your decision, but I will miss your posts, discussions and above all the bikes that you offered. Best of luck in whatever you do.

[Brons2]

Frank,

The problem is not following bicycling on the Internet. The problem is WHERE you choose to follow cycling on the Internet.

One you recognize the racers as being totally irrelevant, you break it down to the sorts of bikes that people in other countries ride the way we ride cars; that is, bicycling as part of a sustainable lifestyle, not as a fitness sport.

Might I suggest joining the iBOB list? These are people that celebrate older and less costly bikes.

http://www.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-bob

Yes, they talk a lot about new (lugged steel) bikes also. But you'll find an audience for posts about picking up old 70s/80s beaters off of eBay, NOS parts for those bikes, traditional methods of fitting a person to a bike, etc.

All is not lost. You're just in the wrong place.

[taz-t]

'We had joy, we had fun
We had seasons in the sun...'

- taz

[dave thompson]

So, Frank, you're taking the time off to build up a bike maybe?

Hurry back buddy!

[eddief]

and I understand. Why not stay and start the conversations or participate in those conversations you'd like to have?

Oh and pay no attention to the dorky ones.

[GoJavs]

Hi Frank - sad the hear you are taking a break, but I fully understand. There are though still plenty of people that feel just like you do. So, stick around and lurk a little if you're not up to posting. Us retro-grouches will be waiting here for you!

BTW - this is the least expensive bike I own...and my favorite...

[rePhil]

You need some longer valve stems!

I think we are in agreement, we will miss Frank and wish he would change his mind and stay. I do hope you check back once in awhile, if for nothing more just to say hello.
I wish you many, many happy and safe miles!

[GoJavs]

;)

[Wayne77]

There are many irritating things in life, and always will be. Chances are there will be just as much to harp about in 5 years (or whenever you decide to return to the "community") But the dialogue and friendship that takes place in a community such as this is a valuable thing. I echo the sentiments of those who find it a little odd that it is so easily abandoned along with the negatives you mention.

[Ken Robb]

you might find some more kindred spirits at iBob forums.

I agree with much of what you wrote.

Look at the bright sideabout the evolution of bicycle technology. The guys who always have to have the latest high-tech and expensive gear become puveyors to us of low-priced last year's latest technology at bargain prices. We don't even have to test the "beta" versions but can wait to see what performs well and holds up in the real world.

[djg]

There's riding, there's talkin' and there's shopping. Far be it from me to tell you how much of one or the other you should do on any given day, but I am willing to humbly point out what you already knew; that is, that they are different activities. You could, for example, ride a bunch, post a bit, and limit the shopping to new tires and lube. I don't know you, but I've enjoyed your posts and quite a few of your pics and I'll miss them a bit if they're gone.

If you have the shopping jones, you know as well as anyone where to go for a lugged frame at a reasonable price. If you want a new one, Gios is still shipping bright blue frames to the US and they don't cost a fortune. If much of the current custom bling seems too rich for your blood, and you tire of NOS, there are builders like DeSalvo and Rock Lobster (PS) who seem to do lugs for much less money than that (VERY REASONABLY) charged by some of the better known builders. And there are always used frames around--that's how I got my CSi. As for 10 speed, you don't need it if you don't want it, but if you hunt around (say, at the total cycling web site) you'll find it at more manageable prices.

[vaxn8r]

Frank, my favorite activity here, bar none, is looking at bike porn. Yours will be missed!

I know what you mean about taking a break. I've done so many times...and when I finally come back, after 3-4 hours, it all feels fresh again :)

Take care!

[Climb01742]

Yikes, Frank (...) This forum is as much about life as it is about bikes. Stick around and continue to contribute.
VF

that about sums it up for me. and i learn something from folks who's tastes aren't the same as mine. your bikes are a fine example, frank. i have no real desire to own the bikes you like, but i always admire them and your descriptions teach me something. philosophical clones teach us little; engage us only superficially; and re-enforce our beliefs, rather than challenge, expand, tweak or improve them. douglas, for example, has opened my eyes and mind; our differences aren't barriers; they're prods to keep an open mind.

we'll be a bit poorer for your absence. you, i'm afraid, will be much poorer for missing the collective wisdom and personalities of this big and diverse sandbox. the past is a neat place to visit but a sucky place to live, IMO. but in the end, what truly matters is...your opinion. i hope you find someplace more to your liking. it may be a long search. take lots of snacks! :beer:

[steelrider]

Frank, take some time out. Think it over. I'm being selfish of course, because I'm going to miss those art-quality photos of the Colnagos and Bottecchias. They always were like porn. Even though I ride other mediums, steel will always be where it's at.

[Smiley]

Guys is Frank the guy who can't resist buying lugged steel bikes and especially ones with Chrome lugs .. Geez Frank if thats you please STAY or we'll have to hear about Carbone Fibre bikes from the young kids :)

[bironi]

You'll be back, and we'll be waiting. Enjoy your ride!

Byron

[manet]

http://users.cis.net/sammy/seasons.htm

[marle]

Frank

Prices are going ballistic because we are dealing in worthless Federal Reserve Notes (frn), not in Dollars. The fed creates these green shopping coupons outa thin air and the banks then expand their supply up to a factor of 10 using fractional reserve banking. I call the process frnacation. So 1 Billion frn, created outa thin air, gets expanded to 10 billion frn. :eek:

Modern Money Mechanics ( published by the Chicago fed ) (http://landru.i-link-2.net/monques/mmm2.html) see figure at the end of page 11.

Bottom line is we all get diluted. :crap: One simply cannot not store wealth in frn.

In the not too distant future, the fed note's prominence and hegemony will be lore as the rest of the world seeks a more stable resource for storing purchasing power and we will see staggering price increases and the extinction of the American middle class.

Many prices have already jumped by a factor of 10 since 1970. We ain't seen nothin yet !

Lets also note that: The fed is a Private Central bank, NOT an arm of the US Goverment. It was created on Dec. 24, 1913. and is our nation third central bank. The second was defeated by President Jackson in 1836.
US citizens were not required to accept the notes of this second central bank under penality of law as we required to accept notes of the fed.

Inflation is not higher prices, it is a hidden tax caused by to many phony frns floating around. Imagine 1,000,000 Legend Ti's appearing outa thin air. What would that do to the value of a Serotta Legend?

All true except you miss a key point of Economic History - Depression. As a society we unwilling to undergo the ravages of Depressions to fulfill notions of fixed money (e.g. Gold Standard) fantasies. These ravages are born not by the weathy but by those earn wage income.

[Sandy]

Hopefully you will return sometime to give us some of your intelligent and insightful posts. We all can use them.



Sandy

[stevep]

hey, where are those 1,000, 000 legend tis ( e-bay )? i want to get one before the my size ones are gone?
any info accepted

[Johny]

Hey Frank,

Looks like I would see yo more often on ebay. :D

I agree with others. Bike love brought us here in the first place; however, friends are more important than bikes.

Please stay here and don't waste time and money on ebay. :D

John

[Brons2]

Hi Frank - sad the hear you are taking a break, but I fully understand. There are though still plenty of people that feel just like you do. So, stick around and lurk a little if you're not up to posting. Us retro-grouches will be waiting here for you!

BTW - this is the least expensive bike I own...and my favorite...

awesome Bridgestone!!!

[Nick H.]

The cycling world doesn't revolve around the Meivici. The "average" racing bike gets cheaper every year, thanks to production moving to Taiwan and China. There are some fantastic "cheap" bikes with Shimano 105 and very good frames. Serotta customers may think of them as "cheap" but they're actually much better than the best stuff the pros were riding 20 years ago, i.e. Reynolds 753 with Super Record. And they only cost a couple of weeks pay for someone on an average salary. Novices can - and do - buy them. Bicycles haven't really evolved much in the last 20 years, largely thanks to the oppressive rules of the UCI. But that's a different argument!

[Dr. Doofus]

The cycling world doesn't revolve around the Meivici.


word

or the c-50

or the vxrs

or whatever

doof is interested in affordable bikes that feel good at 30mph

not $7,000 bikes with the bars even with the seat

[Brons2]

not $7,000 bikes with the bars even with the seat

nothing wrong with having the bars even with the seat. geometry doesn't have anything to do with price points.

[Sandy]

word

or the c-50

or the vxrs

or whatever

doof is interested in affordable bikes that feel good at 30mph

not $7,000 bikes with the bars even with the seat

Buy what you want.

Some want their bars even with the seat. Some want them lower and some want them higher.

Some buy "affordable" bikes that feel good at 30 mph.

Some buy MeiVicis that feel good at 30 mph.

I would never buy a Meivici. But so what? Each person makes their own choice as how they want to spend their money. Don't you?


Sandy

[Sandy]

nothing wrong with having the bars even with the seat. geometry doesn't have anything to do with price points.

word


Sandy

[William]

Frank,

Sorry to see you go. You've got to do what you've got to do. We'll be here waiting for you when you decide to come back.

The a$$ backward pricing and "improvement" for the sake of being different & "new"???? I've lamented and griped about that more then a few times here.


William

[Keith A]

Frank,

I will really miss your posts and the beautiful bikes that you have shared with us all. You do such a wonderful job discussing the details of the frame, that we all get to enjoy them vicariously though you.

I echo the sentiments of what others have stated and think that it is healthy to take a break for a while -- but don't stay gone too long. It is the people that participate on this forum, that I have come to know both in person and in cyber space, that make this forum so great and you are a valuable part of this group. Is is also the diversity of discussions that keep me interested. I have learned much from hanging out with the Serotta gang and not just about bikes.

So go ahead and take a break...spend some time with your daughter and put some miles on one of your lovely steal frames...but don't leave us for good.

P.S. If you are ever down my way, please let me know -- you have a bike to ride at my house and even a place to stay if you'd like.

[Sandy]

What Keith A said.


Sandy

[bostondrunk]

word

doof is interested in affordable bikes that feel good at 30mph



for who?




;) :banana:

[Argos]

not $7,000 bikes with the bars even with the seat

Hey! Not my fault I got little stumps for legs! I did not choose to have the inseam of a 5th Grade boy!

http://picayune.uclick.com/comics/ch/1990/ch900806.gif