Cinelli 64 or 65

[DrSpoke]

I have a set of Record 10 levers and am wondering how they fit on these bars? Has anyone tried this combination? Thoughts? Opinion? Thanks

[11.4]

Depends on what you mean by "fit." There are those who would say that no modern shifters work on Criteriums because you either have to mount the levers so low on the bars or they are pointed sideways. If you like a relatively low fit, they may work -- I like them that way.

As for Giro's (the 64's), they are pretty square bars, shallow drop. They are good for facilitating a short reach for those who need it. The problem people seem to have with Giro's is that the turn at the top is pretty radical and creates a bit of a drop-off to the lever hood. Again, that's from people who may not like the fit because they are used to riding something like a 3T Ergonova or even a Rotundo.

You can like the levers on either bar; it just depends on what a good fit means to you.

[saab2000]

Depends on what you mean by "fit." There are those who would say that no modern shifters work on Criteriums because you either have to mount the levers so low on the bars or they are pointed sideways. If you like a relatively low fit, they may work -- I like them that way.

As for Giro's (the 64's), they are pretty square bars, shallow drop. They are good for facilitating a short reach for those who need it. The problem people seem to have with Giro's is that the turn at the top is pretty radical and creates a bit of a drop-off to the lever hood. Again, that's from people who may not like the fit because they are used to riding something like a 3T Ergonova or even a Rotundo.

You can like the levers on either bar; it just depends on what a good fit means to you.

I am one of those who says that 10-speed levers don't fit on Cinelli 65s. This is unfortunate because they are the best handlebar shape ever invented.

To get the bars into the right place with the bottom of the brake lever level with the bottom of the bars the lever is pretty skewed.

They will fit but the clamp doesn't clamp that well when they're in the proper place and they look strange.

The older pointy 8-speed levers work fine but I had real trouble with the 10-speed levers. The shape of the clamping area changed dramatically between those generations.

Cinelli 65 bars feel the most natural to my hands and I would love to have a bike built just around these bars! I wish someone could duplicate the shape in a way that would work better with modern shifters.

[donevwil]

I second what 11.4 wrote. I tried gen 1 levers on both and gen 2 on 64s, none were even close to what I could live with. I have large hands so a flat transition from hoods to levers is important.

[lhuerta]

here you go:

http://ruedatropical.com/2009/03/road-drop-bar-geometry/

[ceolwulf]

This might or might not help but I had current-shape Campy levers on a Criterium bar - http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=157441

You can get a flat transition but you can't have it horizontal without the drops pointing somewhere in the vicinity of your bottom bracket and it just looks really strange. And looking strange is completely unacceptable. With the older shape it might or might not work but I have my doubts.

They were fairly comfortable the way I had them but I did want that horizontal bar-to-hood transition area so have since switched to a Soma Highway One.

[lhuerta]

You can get a flat transition but you can't have it horizontal without the drops pointing somewhere in the vicinity of your bottom bracket and it just looks really strange.

...looks like you had more room to move the levers up for an even flatter transition and perhaps less angle on the drops.

BTW....nice Merckx and great photography.

Lou

[ceolwulf]

...looks like you had more room to move the levers up for an even flatter transition and perhaps less angle on the drops.



BTW....nice Merckx and great photography.



Lou


I probably did have a bit more room yeah.

Thanks! I love this bike.

[carpediemracing]

For over 20 years I used either the Cinelli 65, Mavic 315, or 3ttt Gimondi bars, similar shape. Was on Cinelli 65 from about 1989?, moved to the 3ttt in about 1991, Mavic from 1997, used a 3ttt in 2012-13, moved to a compact bar in 2014.

Mavics. Cut down so shorter than normal.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_TbmplkIYLx8/TJajUaibxWI/AAAAAAAAC-0/yKYmOPbM5W8/s800/2010-09-19_12-01-30_12.jpg

Mavics, same bar, on black bike.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_TbmplkIYLx8/TU9e586PpEI/AAAAAAAADPM/mfCKn9CJf0M/s800/DSC_0797.JPG

I think 3ttt, cut down, on the black bike. Compact bar on the red, that's what I prefer now.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yVszbCsm9as/UWgFV-hXfuI/AAAAAAAAE2g/au678ML1IGU/s800/DSC_0605.JPG

For crit bend bars I moved the levers as high as possible before they started doing the tilt thing. That seemed to work fine.

[nooneline]

I used crit bars with Campag 10-speed levers for a long time. The bars were rotated up slightly, but not obscenely. The levers were swiveled outward slightly, but not obscenely. It worked, but it probably wouldn't work for everybody since yes, there is a limited range of adjustment.

[thirdgenbird]

I second what 11.4 wrote. I tried gen 1 levers on both and gen 2 on 64s, none were even close to what I could live with. I have large hands so a flat transition from hoods to levers is important.

I have hands so large, I can comfortably palm a full size ipad and I love ergo levers on a 64s. Actually, I almost wish I had a 64 style drops on my bike with compact bars.

[TRACK]

sweet tsunami bike. i had a track one looong ago.

[DrSpoke]

Thanks to all for your insights. I just picked up a Cinelli Supercorsa so was hoping to use Cinelli bars. I've got 65s on my old Alan and have always liked them. I didn't think they would be a good fit w/modern levers but it sounds like Mod 64s may work. It sounds like the levers would just sit a little lower than with a modern bend bar. I was a little concerned about the reach too but can probably live with that. Thanks again.

[JLP]

I have a set of 64's that I run with Tektro brake levers -- just a copy of the 10 speed campy ergo shape. Yeah that little drop off is not perfect, but it's not enough to cause me any issues even on very long rides. So, it works fine for me. I agree that I wouldn't really like it on criterium bars.

[DrSpoke]

here you go:

http://ruedatropical.com/2009/03/road-drop-bar-geometry/

I've seen this website before but forgot to check it - thanks. I'd like to stay Italian but would consider Nitto too. I've got a set of FSA New Ergo and like them a lot - similar to Ergos but a deeper drop. But the bike has a threaded steerer so 31.8 is out.

[11.4]

Thanks to all for your insights. I just picked up a Cinelli Supercorsa so was hoping to use Cinelli bars. I've got 65s on my old Alan and have always liked them. I didn't think they would be a good fit w/modern levers but it sounds like Mod 64s may work. It sounds like the levers would just sit a little lower than with a modern bend bar. I was a little concerned about the reach too but can probably live with that. Thanks again.

You might take a look at the #63's "Campione del Mondo." These were the classic Eddy Merckx bars. They don't have much reach and the drop is intermediate by today's standards. And they do pretty well with modern shifters.

Two things to bear in mind with any of these bars. First, Cinelli made them originally in 26.4 mm clamp diameter, but the whole industry basically bought into 3T's 26.0. Cinelli later made them in 26.0, not always marking the bars as such. Frankly, they were never quite round in cross-section anyway, so the fit to any stem was always a bit funky by modern standards. Second, the newer bars were from a harder alloy -- the old 26.4 mm ones weren't the stiffest but you could crash and tie them into knots and they'd never break on you. The later ones were a bit stiffer but a lot more crack-prone. You can roughly tell vintage by the badge on them -- whether the original Cinelli coat of arms or the later winged logo or just a font -- but those don't necessarily tell you diameter or what they were made of.

Frankly, except for a pure vintage build I think they are past their prime. It's sad because as classic shapes without a lot of reach or drop, they were pretty nice. You can get a Nitto B125AA bar in emulation of a Cinelli 65, but it has a lot more reach and a bit more depth. However, it's a much better made bar. (And note that, just to be ornery, it's made in 25.4 mm clamp size for track, so you have to find yet another stem to use with it.)

Of the vintage bars, I'd still use the Cinelli over most of the others. 3T and many other bar manufacturers were going to heat treated or hardened alloy and going to very thin walls because of the characteristics of the metal. However, they also cracked and broke ... a lot. Cinema followed suit and had the same problems later in their history. Equipment then frankly wasn't as good as it is today.

[DrSpoke]

Thanks 11.4 - I'm familiar with the diameters so plan on buying the bars first and then looking for a stem. I'm not heart set on the 65 bend, just like them on my old Alan, and your 63 idea is worth pursuing. I was thinking something like the Nitto Noodle but would prefer to stay Italian. A (somewhat) local craigslist ad has a set of 64-40 w/coat of arms logo. A little narrow but am considering them. But he's an hr+ away and doesn't want to ship. I like the old XA stem too so am hoping to use that with the combo. I assume they were all 26.4 but not sure. I also like the polish of the older stem and bars.

[alexstar]

I had Cinelli 64 bars on my Colnago Super and they worked okay with pre-2009 Campagnolo levers:

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3295/3054837114_92871cb59f_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/5DWQDq)IMG_1417 (https://flic.kr/p/5DWQDq) by soradical (https://www.flickr.com/people/31213544@N00/), on Flickr


When that bike died a painful death I replaced it with a Cinelli Supercorsa with Cinelli 66 bars:

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2591/3722032925_3f01d68fbb_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/6EUoHt)the finished bike (https://flic.kr/p/6EUoHt) by soradical (https://www.flickr.com/people/31213544@N00/), on Flickr

These photos illustrate the limitations of the old handlebar bend with modern levers. In both instances I moved the levers up as far as possible without the levers starting to rotate. These setups may not look "right" to some, but are plenty comfortable. Were I to do this again, I would look for the later Top/Ergo 64 or 66 bars and see if those made a difference.

Hope this helps,
Alex

[DrSpoke]

What beautiful bikes - love them both. When I lived in CO in the mid 70s and worked in a bike shop we carried Colnago, Guerciotti and Masi. Like an idiot, I bought an Alan. It was mostly a financial decision but I really did enjoy that bike and rode the heck out of it - still have it. In about 2002 I bought a titanium Serotta (Concours/Daytona10) and in 2010 a carbon Ducati (Bianchi). So I sort of skipped over the Italian steel dream bike. But I fixed that yesterday with a late 90s Cinelli Supercorsa in blue. It cleaned up quite nice and is in about 95/100 condition. I can only hope it comes out as nice as yours. I've got a mid 2000s Record10 groupo, currently on the Ducati, for it w/alloy cranks but w/carbon levers. And Record/OpenPro ceramic wheels. But am looking for stem/bars/headset and maybe a seatpost.

I agree about the suitability. The hoods end up in about the same position as in the old NR days - that is, a ways down from the tops. That said, the 64s look like they could go up a little on your Colnago. What are the top/ergo bars you refer to? Are these the current versions with 26.0 centers?


I had Cinelli 64 bars on my Colnago Super and they worked okay with pre-2009 Campagnolo levers:

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3295/3054837114_92871cb59f_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/5DWQDq)IMG_1417 (https://flic.kr/p/5DWQDq) by soradical (https://www.flickr.com/people/31213544@N00/), on Flickr


When that bike died a painful death I replaced it with a Cinelli Supercorsa with Cinelli 66 bars:

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2591/3722032925_3f01d68fbb_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/6EUoHt)the finished bike (https://flic.kr/p/6EUoHt) by soradical (https://www.flickr.com/people/31213544@N00/), on Flickr

These photos illustrate the limitations of the old handlebar bend with modern levers. In both instances I moved the levers up as far as possible without the levers starting to rotate. These setups may not look "right" to some, but are plenty comfortable. Were I to do this again, I would look for the later Top/Ergo 64 or 66 bars and see if those made a difference.

Hope this helps,
Alex

[DrSpoke]

11.5 - Those 63s look like a good possibility. Just enough different from the 64s.

[alexstar]

Thanks for the compliments. The Colnago was a nice ride but the fit and finish left something to be desired; the Cinelli is a vast improvement in that regard, like jewelry in bicycle form.

The Top Ergo bars I mentioned were a later version that were supposedly "optimized" somehow for Ergo levers. They came in gunmetal and, yes, a 26.0 clamp. I have seen the 64 and 66 bends. I don't know if they ever made a Top Ergo 65, but that would really be something.


http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/HBCITPER66/cinelli-top-ergo-66-nos-handlebar
http://d2plslj6xljffa.cloudfront.net/imgs/products/px/400_constH/HBCITPER66_P1.jpg

[merckx]

Thanks for the compliments. The Colnago was a nice ride but the fit and finish left something to be desired; the Cinelli is a vast improvement in that regard, like jewelry in bicycle form.

The Top Ergo bars I mentioned were a later version that were supposedly "optimized" somehow for Ergo levers. They came in gunmetal and, yes, a 26.0 clamp. I have seen the 64 and 66 bends. I don't know if they ever made a Top Ergo 65, but that would really be something.


http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/HBCITPER66/cinelli-top-ergo-66-nos-handlebar
http://d2plslj6xljffa.cloudfront.net/imgs/products/px/400_constH/HBCITPER66_P1.jpg

The Ergo Tops were optimized for Ergos with the addition of a second crease to tuck the housing into. They are also constructed for a different alloy that allowed thinner walls and are a bit lighter than bog-standard 64's and 66's.

[merckx]

Thanks for the compliments. The Colnago was a nice ride but the fit and finish left something to be desired; the Cinelli is a vast improvement in that regard, like jewelry in bicycle form.

The Top Ergo bars I mentioned were a later version that were supposedly "optimized" somehow for Ergo levers. They came in gunmetal and, yes, a 26.0 clamp. I have seen the 64 and 66 bends. I don't know if they ever made a Top Ergo 65, but that would really be something.


http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/HBCITPER66/cinelli-top-ergo-66-nos-handlebar
http://d2plslj6xljffa.cloudfront.net/imgs/products/px/400_constH/HBCITPER66_P1.jpg

The Ergo Tops were optimized for Ergos with the addition of a second crease to tuck the housing into. They are also constructed from a different alloy that allowed thinner walls and are a bit lighter than bog-standard 64's and 66's.

[DrSpoke]

I agree - would love them, or something similar, to fit modern levers.

I am one of those who says that 10-speed levers don't fit on Cinelli 65s. This is unfortunate because they are the best handlebar shape ever invented.

To get the bars into the right place with the bottom of the brake lever level with the bottom of the bars the lever is pretty skewed.

They will fit but the clamp doesn't clamp that well when they're in the proper place and they look strange.

The older pointy 8-speed levers work fine but I had real trouble with the 10-speed levers. The shape of the clamping area changed dramatically between those generations.

Cinelli 65 bars feel the most natural to my hands and I would love to have a bike built just around these bars! I wish someone could duplicate the shape in a way that would work better with modern shifters.