Chains??

[Dr Luxurious]

So who makes good* chains these days?

*strong, reliable, cheap

Building a bike with 11sp Campy. First rig with more than 9 speeds...
I used to use Sedis / Sachs / SRAM for 8 and 9. Are they still any good?

Now I use Campy for 9 since the price came down to earth but I don't want to use Campy for 11 because of the peening requirement.

I also don't want anything with hollow pins or slotted plates - that's just asking for disaster.

I should also say that I take my chains off every couple weeks for a solvent soak so funny connector links or other oddities are right out - I need something that can be reinstalled easily.

So what's good? SRAM, Shimano, KMC, Whippermann, other?

[oldpotatoe]

So who makes good* chains these days?

*strong, reliable, cheap

Building a bike with 11sp Campy. First rig with more than 9 speeds...
I used to use Sedis / Sachs / SRAM for 8 and 9. Are they still any good?

Now I use Campy for 9 since the price came down to earth but I don't want to use Campy for 11 because of the peening requirement.

I also don't want anything with hollow pins or slotted plates - that's just asking for disaster.

I should also say that I take my chains off every couple weeks for a solvent soak so funny connector links or other oddities are right out.

So what's good? SRAM, Shimano, KMC, Whippermann, other?

sram are sram, I'd stay away.

KMC or shimano for 11s. I think the Campagnolo 11s chain is still the best functioning chain but more $ and ya gotta install it right. Peening.

I'd not recommend wipperman or sram.

[seanile]

kmc ftw

[Cicli]

I like Shimano with KMC link or a KMC with a KMC link.

Get a s(h)ram to keep the trashliner in place.

[eBAUMANN]

I've seen chains from every manufacturer break, none are perfect. Personally, I've only broken one chain, a sram 1070. Since then I've used primarily ultegra chains on my sram/shimano bikes and campy on the campy bikes, just cause. That's said, from a price/performance standpoint I would recommend Shimano, unless you want a sweet gold chain, then go kmc ;)

Whatever you do, use a quick link. Most of the chains Ive seen break have broken at the pin, probably due to imperfect installation but who knows.

[guido]

KMC with a KMC quick link. Very strong and reliable.

[FlashUNC]

Had a KMC chain that worked great on my Campy 11 setup, until it didn't for whatever reason. Wasn't stretched or worn. All the other parts were fine. Shifted great until it didn't. Swapped it out for a Campy chain, everything's back to normal.

KMC lasted me a year plus, but again, no appreciable stretching and things just went sideways.

I'd say Campy with a quick link personally.

[ultraman6970]

KMC quick link with any chain as long you match the link speeds with the chain speeds.

As for to calling disaster because the chain is hollow actually unless you are able to put a wattage like hulk in like a fraction of a second, probably those chains will work as good as a non hollow one, specially the KMC ones. You have more chances IMO to snap a 10 speed wipperman chain than a 10 speed ultra light kmc or campagnolo.

There is a reason people is naming KMC also.

[shovelhd]

Can a 5800 chain be used on Campy 11sp? If so that's what I run on my Shimano 11sp with an 11sp KMC missing link. Works great. Bulk chains are under $20 and the links are about $3 each.

[AngryScientist]

KMC all the way for me.

from 11-sp right down to the 1/8" fixie.

[mudhead]

Campy 11s and KMC missing link instead of peenning

[Black Dog]

Campy 11s and KMC missing link instead of peenning

This 100%. I have been running this setup for years with zero issues. Campy chorus chains are super quiet, shift great, and last a long time.

[kramnnim]

I bought a KMC X11SL an it makes weird grindy noises/feelings. (coupled with a Chorus cassette) At first I thought the upper RD pulley was too close to the sprockets, that's what it sounds/feels like.

Moved it over to a bike with an Ultegra cassette and it's not as noticeable.

[Cicli]

I bought a KMC X11SL an it makes weird grindy noises/feelings. (coupled with a Chorus cassette) At first I thought the upper RD pulley was too close to the sprockets, that's what it sounds/feels like.

Moved it over to a bike with an Ultegra cassette and it's not as noticeable.

Worn out cassette?

[kramnnim]

Nope...

[R3awak3n]

another vote for KMC. Its all I use and good price, light (the SL), simple to open and close and silver and gold

[tylerbick]

sram are sram, I'd stay away.

Yep, 100% correct.

I'd not recommend wipperman or sram.

I've never had any customer have issues w/ any Wipperman 9/10/11 speed chains... I've even gotten a couple of their stainless chains for a couple folks, they definitely seem to be holding up quite well compared to a traditional steel chain. And, I run one of their 1/8" on my track bike.


I'm pretty shocked to see KMC over and over here. In my experience, on the Shimano/Sram bikes there's no substitute for Shimano in terms of shift quality. Perhaps KMC is a better Campy replacement, just haven't given it the chance.

[Satellite]

I have used SRAM chains for 10 years, only broke one Mountain Bike chain and who knows I could have sucked up a stick or some debris, I believe it was 8 speed but might of been 9 speed.

I don't know why folks have such a problem with SRAM. I also use the Hollow Pin/Link chains on my road bikes, they have been great; quiet, shift well, priced well and never failed. I don't know what else I could want in a chain.

Satellite

[Dr Luxurious]

Wow, a lot of love for KMC.
And GOLD! Hell yeah!

Campy 11s and KMC missing link instead of peenning

Really?
Didn't know you could do that.
Very interesting...

[mtechnica]

Dude stop taking your chains off so often, I dunno about you guys but I leave mine on until they are elongated and get plenty of miles from them. BTW campagnolo, kmc

[mtechnica]

Shimano chains are alright but don't seem to last as long as others

[Tony]

I don't know why folks have such a problem with SRAM. I also use the Hollow Pin/Link chains on my road bikes, they have been great; quiet, shift well, priced well and never failed. I don't know what else I could want in a chain.

Satellite

+1
Never any problems, dirt or road, quiet, reliable.

[Louis]

For me it's been Shimano chains + Quick Links (most of my quick-links have been SRAM and worked fine, but I'd gladly try KMC)

[Russian bear]

KMC for me, across Shimano and Campy (10 speed) drive trains. When I go 11 speed campy, i'll get their chain as well and use a quick link.

[simonov]

I have used SRAM chains for 10 years, only broke one Mountain Bike chain and who knows I could have sucked up a stick or some debris, I believe it was 8 speed but might of been 9 speed.

I don't know why folks have such a problem with SRAM. I also use the Hollow Pin/Link chains on my road bikes, they have been great; quiet, shift well, priced well and never failed. I don't know what else I could want in a chain.

Satellite

Same here. SRAM chains have been problem free. I use either those or KMC depending on what I can get my hands on more easily when it's time for a replacement.

[oldpotatoe]

Can a 5800 chain be used on Campy 11sp? If so that's what I run on my Shimano 11sp with an 11sp KMC missing link. Works great. Bulk chains are under $20 and the links are about $3 each.

Yes, 11s chains are all intercompatible. Anecdotally, Wipperman 'seemed' to wear cogsets more quickly. Often a bike we got for tune that had a Wipperman, seemed the cogset was history.

Seen a few sram and sram quicklinks break, so for this and 'other' reasons, I'd say, again, shimano, Campagnolo, KMC, with either KMC or Wipperman quicklinks

[tmf]

I'm converting my two bikes over to 11 speed. I'm planning to use a Chorus 11 chain with KMC missing link on one (the chain came with the Chorus group), and a KMC chain with missing link on the other.

The 11 speed KMC missing link says that it's "non-reuseable". The 10 speed Missing Link was reuseable. If you're planning to take your chain off frequently, you'll need to stock up on the Missing Links (or can anyone confirm that they can be reused??).

[Black Dog]

I'm converting my two bikes over to 11 speed. I'm planning to use a Chorus 11 chain with KMC missing link on one (the chain came with the Chorus group), and a KMC chain with missing link on the other.

The 11 speed KMC missing link says that it's "non-reuseable". The 10 speed Missing Link was reuseable. If you're planning to take your chain off frequently, you'll need to stock up on the Missing Links (or can anyone confirm that they can be reused??).

What they really mean is non-reusable from one chain to the next. They will stretch out if you try an use them on successive chains. Taking them on and off through the life of one chain is not an issue. I find that when my campy chains are staring to measure close to .75% elongation they will measure just over that if I measure the section with the KMC link.

[shovelhd]

What they really mean is non-reusable from one chain to the next. They will stretch out if you try an use them on successive chains. Taking them on and off through the life of one chain is not an issue. I find that when my campy chains are staring to measure close to .75% elongation they will measure just over that if I measure the section with the KMC link.

That has been my experience as well. No problems reusing them on the same chain. For the heck of it I tried reusing one on a new chain and it skipped. I replaced the link, problem solved.

[saab2000]

Had a KMC chain that worked great on my Campy 11 setup, until it didn't for whatever reason. Wasn't stretched or worn. All the other parts were fine. Shifted great until it didn't. Swapped it out for a Campy chain, everything's back to normal.

KMC lasted me a year plus, but again, no appreciable stretching and things just went sideways.

I'd say Campy with a quick link personally.

This is what I would do if I removed the chain periodically.

I got some KMC links for my Campagnolo 10-speed chain on my travel bike. It's been great.

Get the removal tool.

Campagnolo chains are excellent chains and last a long time.

[biker72]

The shop where I work has had the fewest problems with Shimano and Campy chains. Make that almost no problems.

SRAM as other posters have mentioned is SRAM. They seem to be using customers as quality control.

[Plum Hill]

Campy with an IRD link (per OP-posted recommendation. No problems.

[druptight]

KMC here too. Just wanted to add that the cards of 6 missing links from amazon or wherever are great. Easy to NOT lose, whenever I drop one half on my basement floor and can't find it I've got more on hand.

10 speed version (I haven't gone 11 yet): http://www.amazon.com/KMC-Missing-10-speed-Reusable-Pairs/dp/B00K7X8J7G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424181222&sr=8-1&keywords=kmc+missing+link

[tumbler]

I like Shimano with KMC link or a KMC with a KMC link.

Get a s(h)ram to keep the trashliner in place.

+1. Whichever is cheaper. Keep it clean and lubed and you'll be all set.

[tumbler]

KMC here too. Just wanted to add that the cards of 6 missing links from amazon or wherever are great. Easy to NOT lose, whenever I drop one half on my basement floor and can't find it I've got more on hand.

10 speed version (I haven't gone 11 yet): http://www.amazon.com/KMC-Missing-10-speed-Reusable-Pairs/dp/B00K7X8J7G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424181222&sr=8-1&keywords=kmc+missing+link

Has anyone noticed that the 11 speed links are crazy expensive? On Amazon, a 6-pack of 10 speed links is $9, whereas a 6-pack of 11 speed links (which are now labeled non-reuseable?!?) is $31. Seems like a lot for a tiny fraction of a chain. I understand tolerances and what not, but this still seems excessive.

[bluesea]

Dude stop taking your chains off so often, I dunno about you guys but I leave mine on until they are elongated and get plenty of miles from them. BTW campagnolo, kmc


I try to wipe the chain after every ride and oiling as opposed to taking it off.

[Dr Luxurious]

Has anyone noticed that the 11 speed links are crazy expensive? On Amazon, a 6-pack of 10 speed links is $9, whereas a 6-pack of 11 speed links (which are now labeled non-reuseable?!?) is $31. Seems like a lot for a tiny fraction of a chain. I understand tolerances and what not, but this still seems excessive.

I was wondering about that, too.
I think it's because 11 is the latest & greatest. 9 and 10 are cheap now because they've been kicked down the food chain.


Originally Posted by mtechnica
Dude stop taking your chains off so often, I dunno about you guys but I leave mine on until they are elongated and get plenty of miles from them. BTW campagnolo, kmc

Nope. I do a minor overhaul every few weeks. Includes FULLY cleaning the drive train. I keep 2 chains in rotation: pull one off and toss it in solvent overnight , dry it, spray it with motorcycle chain lube, put it in a zipplock til next time. While the first is soaking I install the second. Repeat at next cleaning. Makes cogs, chains, and rings last a LONG time - plus then the chain isn't all stretched when I put on my race wheels.

[Tony T]

So who makes good* chains these days?

*strong, reliable, cheap

Building a bike with 11sp Campy.

You can have strong and reliable, or you can have cheap.
Go strong and reliable and get a Campy chain.

[Tony T]

Has anyone noticed that the 11 speed links are crazy expensive? On Amazon, a 6-pack of 10 speed links is $9, whereas a 6-pack of 11 speed links (which are now labeled non-reuseable?!?) is $31.

Yup, that's why I got the Campy chain tool. By now I would have spent just as much for the KMC links.

[ceolwulf]

Park makes a good chain tool that can peen the Campy links for a lot less than the Campy tool.

[oldpotatoe]

Yup, that's why I got the Campy chain tool. By now I would have spent just as much for the KMC links.

I take my chains off once to clean, next time to replace. I use Campag on 11s, use the supplied pin. Then use the KMC link. On my friction bike, I use a 9s KMC, don't clean it, just replace.

[mtechnica]

I was wondering about that, too.
I think it's because 11 is the latest & greatest. 9 and 10 are cheap now because they've been kicked down the food chain.




Nope. I do a minor overhaul every few weeks. Includes FULLY cleaning the drive train. I keep 2 chains in rotation: pull one off and toss it in solvent overnight , dry it, spray it with motorcycle chain lube, put it in a zipplock til next time. While the first is soaking I install the second. Repeat at next cleaning. Makes cogs, chains, and rings last a LONG time - plus then the chain isn't all stretched when I put on my race wheels.

Taking it off and putting it back on constantly makes it weaker and probably extends the life 10-15% max but keep doing it if it males you feel better and you have the time...

[Seramount]

for me, KMC X10SL + Chain-L is a great combination.

like buttah...l!

[tmf]

What they really mean is non-reusable from one chain to the next. They will stretch out if you try an use them on successive chains. Taking them on and off through the life of one chain is not an issue. I find that when my campy chains are staring to measure close to .75% elongation they will measure just over that if I measure the section with the KMC link.

For KMC, they say the 10sp is re-useable but the 11sp is not. I've reused 10sp missing links a few times on the same chain ("re-use" meaning opening it and refastening it). I don't always follow manufacturer guidance 100% all of the time, but this one seems like they may have a reason for the caution. Here is the verbage from the KMC 11 speed Missing Link instructions:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/todd4ta/KMC11spMissingLink_zpsae452de5.jpg

Here is a link to the full instructions KMC 11sp Missing Links (http://www.kmcchain.eu/products-connectors-missing_links)

[ceolwulf]

The Wipperman Connex quick-link might be my favourite part on my bike. (use with Campy chains.)

I wax my chains though so I'm taking them off quite a lot.

[Tony T]

Did Wipperman produce an 11s link? Last I looked (years ago), they did not.

[ceolwulf]

According to the catalog I just now downloaded from their site they do list an 11-speed link.

[Johnny P]

kmc with a kmc quick link. Very strong and reliable.

+1

[bikinchris]

I have used SRAM chains for 10 years, only broke one Mountain Bike chain and who knows I could have sucked up a stick or some debris, I believe it was 8 speed but might of been 9 speed.

I don't know why folks have such a problem with SRAM. I also use the Hollow Pin/Link chains on my road bikes, they have been great; quiet, shift well, priced well and never failed. I don't know what else I could want in a chain.

Satellite

I agree. I don't know why SRAM has become the whipping boy of the internet, but I have never had a SRAM chain fail and have had some from Campy and Shimano fail. The only failure of a SRAM snap together link was from a guy who kept reusing the no reuse link.

To the OP, go ahead and use the Campy chain, but throw the special pin as far away as you can. Use a snap together link from either SRAM or Wipperman.

[MikeD]

Shimano chains for me. KMC chains seem to wear out too fast, but their master links are great. I tried SRAMs in the past, but I think Shimanos are better quality. Never tried Wipperman. Aren't they expensive?

[Cat3roadracer]

I have used SRAM chains for a long time, road, cross, MTB. Never had an issue.

[gdw]

"I have used SRAM chains for a long time, road, cross, MTB. Never had an issue."

Same here. I've only broken one chain, Shimano, and it failed three times in three different places on one ride.

[El Chaba]

I have been using Wipperman Chains on my Campy 10 speed drivetrains for quite a few years now with great results. I prefer the nickel plated model and it is an extremely durable and long-lasting chain. There were some problems with the stainless models from Wipperman sufferung from cracked links, but it only affected the stainless models and was apparently caused from a stress riser created from the branding stamp in the sideplate. The problem may have been fixed by now. The nickel plated and unplated models never suffered from these ills. Some people claim that the Wipperman chains are not as quiet or don't shift quite as well as some alternatives, but I have had good results....Of course, I use wet lube on my chains and keep them pretty clean, and that seems to be the secret. (as an aside the term "dry lube" is an oxymoron). I have never experienced any abnormal cog wear from the Wippermans, but I do check the chain wear with a gauge and replace chains early to maximise cassette life.

[shovelhd]

Shimano chains for me. KMC chains seem to wear out too fast, but their master links are great. I tried SRAMs in the past, but I think Shimanos are better quality. Never tried Wipperman. Aren't they expensive?

Aren't Shimano chains made by KMC?

[JasonF]

I've had great results with Wipperman 10 chains and have never had an issue with the Connex link.

[tumbler]

Did Wipperman produce an 11s link? Last I looked (years ago), they did not.

According to the catalog I just now downloaded from their site they do list an 11-speed link.

I see it on their website, but could not find a source online selling them. Has anyone found one?

[MikeD]

Aren't Shimano chains made by KMC?


I think only the cheap models.

[shovelhd]

I think only the cheap models.

Define cheap.

[Rob1519]

Aren't Shimano chains made by KMC?

KMC and Shimano have been business partners for a long time so I would estimate this to be accurate, at least to a degree. What models KMC supplies, I have no idea. I do find it interesting that Shimano does not seem to endorse use of a Missing Link.

I have also read that Yokozuna supplies cables to Shimano. I have nothing to substantiate that comment though.

[Black Dog]

For KMC, they say the 10sp is re-useable but the 11sp is not. I've reused 10sp missing links a few times on the same chain ("re-use" meaning opening it and refastening it). I don't always follow manufacturer guidance 100% all of the time, but this one seems like they may have a reason for the caution. Here is the verbage from the KMC 11 speed Missing Link instructions:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/todd4ta/KMC11spMissingLink_zpsae452de5.jpg

Here is a link to the full instructions KMC 11sp Missing Links (http://www.kmcchain.eu/products-connectors-missing_links)

A lawyer wrote that and not an engineer. :rolleyes:

[Tony T]

A lawyer wrote that and not an engineer. :rolleyes:

The engineer just said to not re-use the link :)