Slaying the Badger

[hairylegs]

Anybody else see the ESPN 30 for 30 doc? It's on netflix - I was thoroughly impressed! As a youngin I had no idea of the 85-86 drama in Le Tour!!!!

[soulspinner]

Anybody else see the ESPN 30 for 30 doc? It's on netflix - I was thoroughly impressed! As a youngin I had no idea of the 85-86 drama in Le Tour!!!!

It was my favorite time.

[Black Dog]

If you thought the documentary was good then you need to read the book.

[ntb1001]

I've read the book..and saw the doc too...loved them both.

[hairylegs]

I'll check out the book! Could use a good read...

[Satellite]

Awesome, I missed this when it aired. I didn't know it was on Netflix, watching it now.

[Ti Designs]

That's odd, I've seen "23 days in July" a number of times - Phil Anderson's bid to win the tour while not being French. Last night I watched "Slaying the Badger" - Greg Lemond's bid to win the tour while not being French. It's hard not to notice the similarity, and how french coaches, journalists and racers see things in a different light.

Slaying the Badger was better done than 23 days in July because it comes at you from different points of view, all at the same time. What I love about 23 days in July was Phil Anderson's view of training. "Another 5 hours at the meat works" as he puts it. For all the hours of bike racing that you can find out there, there really isn't that much training that you see. There's a line at the end of "The Road To Paris" when Lance is training in the rain, "nobody sees this". Clearly that was only part of what nobody saw, but the point is still well made.

[MattTuck]

That's odd, I've seen "23 days in July" a number of times - Phil Anderson's bid to win the tour while not being French. Last night I watched "Slaying the Badger" - Greg Lemond's bid to win the tour while not being French. It's hard not to notice the similarity, and how french coaches, journalists and racers see things in a different light.

Slaying the Badger was better done than 23 days in July because it comes at you from different points of view, all at the same time. What I love about 23 days in July was Phil Anderson's view of training. "Another 5 hours at the meat works" as he puts it. For all the hours of bike racing that you can find out there, there really isn't that much training that you see. There's a line at the end of "The Road To Paris" when Lance is training in the rain, "nobody sees this". Clearly that was only part of what nobody saw, but the point is still well made.

Yep, I have to imagine that training would be very boring to watch. Just like one of us out riding alone, doing intervals. Just doesn't have any drama or conflict, which is what makes racing compelling to follow.

[rugbysecondrow]

I watched it with some non-cycling folks this weekend. It was interesting to watch, but we all had the opinion that every person but Hampsten was an arrogant jerk. There was no protagonist or antagonist...just all a bunch of a-holes.

For me, it seemed that they were all self interested liars, but lying about different things.

Listening to Lemond act as if he is the only clean guy in a world of dopers and cheats, it just came of as BS. He would do well to stop talking.

Final conclusion we came to: if this was the culture Lance and others entered into, no wonder he doped.

[Ti Designs]

Yep, I have to imagine that training would be very boring to watch. Just like one of us out riding alone, doing intervals. Just doesn't have any drama or conflict, which is what makes racing compelling to follow.

Yeh, training would be boring to watch, but you don't have to watch 5 hours of base mileage to get the idea. There are two things I have against what there is available to watch about cycling. The first is that anything made for american viewers assumes they know nothing about cycling - this may have changed, I stopped watching a long time ago... With american sports they don't do that. As stupid as the commentary in a football game can get, they don't feel the need to explain the game itself all the time. My larger complaint is that you don't see the training aspect, as a result very few people know much about it. In trying to get a better grip on training dose for different types of athletes, I've started looking at local coaches and their athlete's racing results, because I can get information on how they are training. I've always been interested in Eddy Merckx's training methods as he was a master of changing his pedal stroke to work in any riding condition, but there's next to nothing about how he trained or learned how to do that.

[CSKeller]

I thought it was well done! I agree, it was interesting to see all of the different view points...Hinault's, LeMond's, the DS', Hampsten's. But I wouldn't call them all a holes. In order to win such a demanding event one needs to be a bit arrogant and have a lot of self belief. I think the worst people in LeMond's situation were the DS and Hinault.

I am glad LeMond persevered and won! It was an amazing story!

[Ti Designs]

In order to win such a demanding event one needs to be a bit arrogant and have a lot of self belief.

Which is what made Andy Hampsten stand out. For all of the notice that Lemond got, Andy was written off from the start. In the interviews, Greg and Kathy saw it all from Greg's point of view, Bernard saw it all from his own point of view, only Andy was really honest about what was going on. He didn't win the Giro because he got things his way, he won it because nobody got things their way, and that was nothing new to him.

If you want an eye opening take on doping in US cycling in the early 80's, someone should make a documentary about the OTC and Eddie B. EPO made a great impact on the sporting world because it's so effective, and it was hard to ignore riders dropping dead while at the top of their game, but long before that there were people in search of ways of gaining an edge. "blood boosting" is what they called it when I was there, training at high altitude with almost toxic doses of iron to build blood cells, then storing that blood. It was anything but scientific, the blood was stored in a normal dorm fridge. My question is how many of the top riders - the ones who's names you know, were or weren't on that program? I recently watched the Coors Classic on DVD (too much time on the trainer) and noticed that Rebecca Twigg pulled out of the race in 84 when she would have needed to start Eddy B's program, to the day. Andy is the one person I just can't see doping. I can see him screwing up their pecking order at the OTC 'cause he was just too good a climber to ignore. His comment in Slaying the Badger about it being more than just losing some weight - he was the poster child for the thin bike racer, made a lot of sense. When EPO came out, even his natural ability wasn't enough, but the expectations of him were still there.

If you want to know what the status of top level bike racing in the US was in the early 80's, read this:

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/09/local/la-me-mark-whitehead-20110709

[Satellite]

Damn, "23 days in July", isn't on Netflix.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

Neither Lemond nor Hampsten could hold the wheel of either Marcus Sommers or Barry Muzzin in the 80's.

[tumbler]

Anybody else see the ESPN 30 for 30 doc? It's on netflix - I was thoroughly impressed! As a youngin I had no idea of the 85-86 drama in Le Tour!!!!

I loved it. A great sports story that will hopefully appeal to cyclists and non-cyclists alike.

[peanutgallery]

Paul Koechli is a flat out freak. We all thought he was extremely strange, so freaky that it diminished the rest of the documentary. Definitely something up there

In the vein of the SNL anniversary, Koechli would do great on Sprokets

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9p5ey_sprockets-germany-s-most-disturbing_shortfilms

For the record, LeMond didn't look fat, then or now. Kathy looks much better now than she did back then

[rugbysecondrow]

Americans know jack squat about cycling, so they have no choice but to explain the sport like it is brand new information, because it really is for most.



Yeh, training would be boring to watch, but you don't have to watch 5 hours of base mileage to get the idea. There are two things I have against what there is available to watch about cycling. The first is that anything made for american viewers assumes they know nothing about cycling - this may have changed, I stopped watching a long time ago... With american sports they don't do that. As stupid as the commentary in a football game can get, they don't feel the need to explain the game itself all the time. My larger complaint is that you don't see the training aspect, as a result very few people know much about it. In trying to get a better grip on training dose for different types of athletes, I've started looking at local coaches and their athlete's racing results, because I can get information on how they are training. I've always been interested in Eddy Merckx's training methods as he was a master of changing his pedal stroke to work in any riding condition, but there's next to nothing about how he trained or learned how to do that.

[Black Dog]

If you want to see a great documentary with training in it watch "Steve Bauer: Inside Out".

[hampco]

And if you're in Seattle and want to see the movie, Slaying the Badger, followed by a little Q & A with our own Andy Hampsten - an event we're calling "Badgering Andy" - click here (http://www.brownpapertickets.com/event/1193607) for this (probably sold-out) event.

[tiretrax]

And if you're in Seattle and want to see the movie, Slaying the Badger, followed by a little Q & A with our own Andy Hampsten - an event we're calling "Badgering Andy" - click here (http://www.brownpapertickets.com/event/1193607) for this (probably sold-out) event.

Wish I could be there. Sounds like a great event.

[tiretrax]

Americans know jack squat about cycling, so they have no choice but to explain the sport like it is brand new information, because it really is for most.
Paul,
Your comments are right on the money. Most of the folks in Slaying the Badger seem like a bunch of arrogant whiners, especially LeMond, in my opinion. Hinault's comments about the race not yet being over seem pretty timid at this time. I can see how LeMond took them so hard, but if LeMond had a bad crash or calamity, he could have lost to others, not just Hinault.


My family suffers through my incessant watching of bike races (when they're covered), and they still have a difficult time understanding all of the mechanics of a stage race. My friends that are auto racing fans are some of the least comprehending.

[Buzz]

[QUOTE=tiretrax;1710300]Paul,
Your comments are right on the money. Most of the folks in Slaying the Badger seem like a bunch of arrogant whiners, especially LeMond, in my opinion. Hinault's comments about the race not yet being over seem pretty timid at this time. I can see how LeMond took them so hard, but if LeMond had a bad crash or calamity, he could have lost to others, not just Hinault.


A few years ago I attended Hampsten's Cinghiale.com dolomite rides. During a dinner session we all had an extended discussion with Andy about Lemond, Hinault, the 86 Tour etc. safe to say you won't ever hear Hampsten describe Lemond as an arrogant whiner- just the opposite. He was an energetic, hyper fun guy who couldn't stay angry more than a few minutes, helped every american cyclist looking for work in Europe, and was without question the strongest cyclist he has ever seen and as he reminded us that included Hinault - a five time TDF champion (whom he described as an awesome teammate and very different from the public perception)

So there you have it.

If you get a chance to ride or meet with Hampsten make sure to. His brother Steve makes great bicycles too.

[cainez]

I found it randomly one evening and got sucked in. It is a great story.

[cdn_bacon]

Loved watching this. great footage great "bad guys"

But quite honestly can't listen to Greg and his wife in the same room bickering at each other trying to remember who's facts are correct.:bike: especially that opening scene with the brace.... was it really necessary? Didn't shape the movie at all for me.

thanks for sharing it though.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

One thing for certain is that LeMond has not aged well at all. Hinault, on the other hand, looks like he could still hurt people . . . with his legs AND fists.

[Dead Man]

This is the one where the Lemonds have their awkward arguments about the facts and Greg tries to make his wife seem like she's stupid and completely misremembers everything about his cycling career?

Bleh. The rest of the documentary was great, but I couldn't stand to watch those two.