Campy v Shimano - An appreciation for 2015 Campagnolo Revolution

[beeatnik]

TL/WR : 2015 Campy is Badazz

I'm one of those guys who thinks he can feel a difference in shifting between Super Record 11 and Chorus 11. And when I test ride buddies' bikes, I get a kick out of perceiving differences in how their Campy groups feel or perform. Sure it may be subjective, but every SRAM or Shimano equipped bike, when in perfect adjustment (rare for SRAM, obv) just feels like any other SRAM or Shimano bike. That may be a testament to engineering or it may be an indictment of Italian manufacturing "tolerances." In any case, it increases my connoisseur IQ and I get to make statements such as, "Chorus 10 is the best shifting system I've ever ridden." I know many of you feel the same.

Well, last year I purchased (multiple times), every level of Shimano 11s. I thoroughly enjoyed them all (although 6800 may have had some issues). I wouldn't begin to argue the merits of DA v Record 11 and my favorite bike gots 5800 on it. To repeat a cliche, the stuff just works.

So, what's my point (of course, you're thinking that)? Well, a few years ago I experienced my greatest disappointment with Campagnolo 11s; I used it on an internally routed aero frame. Shifting was sticky and misshifts occurred every 4th or 5th shift. And I was always trying to guide the chain up. Multiple mechanics worked on adjustments but the conclusion was always the same, extra friction from the cable routing. I guess I could have picked up a set of $200 weight weenie cables, but I'm a cheap bastard. Bottom line, when I recently picked up a C59, I thought hard about going with Shimano. Of course, I couldn't bring myself to do that and went with the obvious, Super Record 11. I'm sure you know where this is going. Yep, internal routing, crap shifting (for me at least, remember I think Chorus 10 is the GREATEST OF ALL TIMES).

OK, sold the SR and took a flyer on 2015 Record 11 (REVOLUTION!). I'm very happy to report - in fact, nearly giddy - that the new 2015 "Revolution" 11s drivetrain is a game changer, especially for guys who were starting to look hard at Shimano. This is where I'll be brief and elaborate later (if you insist):

Front shifting is as fast and effortless as Shimano 11 but still feels quintessentially Campy. Every single time I shift, I expect the chain to still be in the small ring as I can't comprehend how it can shift with so little effort and so mindblowingly fast. No hyperbole. Best of all, it feels like Campagnolo; I like some (just some, not loads like SRAM) clunk in my system.

Rear shifting improvements are more subtle; however, and this is more than likely 99% perception, Revolution feels more like 9s and 10s than 11s, which in my mind is an improvement. Ya, Campy guys care about this stuff

I love the new designs of the FD and RD. I think Campy engineers may have been inspired by the spaceships in Independence Day (or District 11). Such an inspired mix of Italian craftsmanship and new technology. Kinda like Italian Super Car Design.

Finally, and you may have figured this out by now, the new stuff works on NEW frames (internal routing). Maybe I can pick up one of those goofy Cervelos now. :banana:

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8578/16325477850_26d63d7e60_b.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7381/16326617799_e675b17b7b_b.jpg

[soulspinner]

Interesting review.

[thwart]

gah.

Now you've got my curiosity piqued.

May have to try the new 11 spd stuff at some point.

But... not the cranks. ;)

[oldpotatoe]

Yup, I futzed with Record 11s and a cervelo with the silly into the top of the top tube routing and I never could get it to work. That 90 degree turn in the middle of the down tube is completely dumm.

[enr1co]

Beeatnik- I'm liking your style :cool: :)

[beeatnik]

So Evil, So Nice
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7379/16487565486_9a6646a26c_b.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7360/15893373583_d2002d3118_b.jpg

[Waldo]

A point of clarification: You just picked up a C59 and equipped it with 2015 Record and you call yourself a "cheap bastard?"

[saab2000]

Speaking of internal cable routing..... I have two bikes with Shimano 9000. One has external routing. One has internal. The internal one doesn't shift as nicely as the external.

The internal one (Giant) has full-length internal cable sleeves. I wonder if they're just intended to be guides and then removed...... At some point I may re-cable it without the liners.

Thoughts?

Sorry about the tangent....

The 2015 Campagnolo stuff really does look nice. I've seen it in person and I like it. I'd love to ride it to see how evolved it is from my 2000s 10-speed stuff which has now all been converted to the new shape Centaur shifters, but is still 10-speed.

[ultraman6970]

The only thing I can tell is... why took them so many years to make that arm longer in the FD? :/

[saab2000]

The only thing I can tell is... why took them so many years to make that arm longer in the FD? :/

And I can't figure out why everyone thinks these long are front ders are the bee's knees. My normal ones shift great. And that's not me being a cranky old man. Seriously, they work great. Easy effort. Three clicks up and three down. No trimming needed either. Full range of the cassette when on the big ring with no rub.

My 9000 fronts work fine too, but not better than my Campagnolo front derailleurs.

Not being a curmudgeon, I just don't get the hype.

[RedRider]

Why no love for the new cranks?
We've been using the new Campy components )Super Record, Record and Chorus) for a few months and I think the crankset is one of the best improvements. You can swap chainrings from compact - mid - standard. That alone is worth the upgrade!

[beeatnik]

And I can't figure out why everyone thinks these long are front ders are the bee's knees. My normal ones shift great. And that's not me being a cranky old man. Seriously, they work great. Easy effort. Three clicks up and three down. No trimming needed either. Full range of the cassette when on the big ring with no rub.

My 9000 fronts work fine too, but not better than my Campagnolo front derailleurs.

Not being a curmudgeon, I just don't get the hype.

Have always felt that Campy front shifting is the Gold Standard. However, setting up an 11s FD where there's no rubbing requires some type of medieval alchemy. Don't know a single home wrench who can pull it off. For that reason, on a few bikes I've gone with 10s FD's to get a wider cage. Now, with the 2015 stuff, there's virtually no rubbing in any combination of gears. You can cross chain for days. The cage, I believe, is wider than 2009-2014.

[brockd15]

Ha! Like vlad said above, these statements...

Well, last year I purchased (multiple times), every level of Shimano 11s.
Bottom line, when I recently picked up a C59...
I couldn't bring myself to do that and went with the obvious, Super Record 11.
...took a flyer on 2015 Record 11 (REVOLUTION!).

Don't in any way go with this one.

I guess I could have picked up a set of $200 weight weenie cables, but I'm a cheap bastard.

[beeatnik]

Guys, $200 weight weenie cables don't hold their value.

When it comes to components I look at the true cost of ownership and amortization. A guy who buys a $40,000 Honda is thriftier than a cat who buys a $25,000 Ford.

[brockd15]

Yeah, but pretty sure neither you or the Honda and Ford guy qualify as a cheap bastard.

Anyway, just thought it was funny.

Good review and cool gear!

[Ralph]

And I can't figure out why everyone thinks these long are front ders are the bee's knees. My normal ones shift great. And that's not me being a cranky old man. Seriously, they work great. Easy effort. Three clicks up and three down. No trimming needed either. Full range of the cassette when on the big ring with no rub.

My 9000 fronts work fine too, but not better than my Campagnolo front derailleurs.

Not being a curmudgeon, I just don't get the hype.

I feel the same way. Am sure the new models work nice, etc.....but my older FD's shift perfect, and never need trim. I think there are a lot of folks out there who don't know how to set up a FD.

[choke]

Why no love for the new cranks?
We've been using the new Campy components )Super Record, Record and Chorus) for a few months and I think the crankset is one of the best improvements. You can swap chainrings from compact - mid - standard. That alone is worth the upgrade!They may work well, but to my eye they are just plain fugly....and that is more than enough to keep me away. As for changing the rings, I've ran a 50T large ring since the late 90s so that part has zero appeal to me.

[velomonkey]

Great review - as a guy who has 2014 record mechanical and 2014 record EPS I am interested in 2015 mechanical.

Now, onto what everyone else is saying - isn't that a CAAD 10 La Grange bike?????

Now to be fair, I sometimes mix "don't tell me to use a 3rd party part to make this work" with "cheap."

[Joachim]

The new Campy crank doesn't work with my purple CK bb. Al, you understand don't you? I can mix n match 9000 to get an unofficial 52/42 in the front....

[beeatnik]

The new Campy crank doesn't work with my purple CK bb. Al, you understand don't you? I can mix n match 9000 to get an unofficial 52/42 in the front....

I wouldn't mix a DA crankset with an otherwise Campy drivetrain, but, IMHO, purple CK BB and DA9000 cranks are the JAM (possibly my favorite BB/Crankset combo around).

[woodworker]

[QUOTE=velomonkey;1707490]Great review - as a guy who has 2014 record mechanical and 2014 record EPS I am interested in 2015 mechanical.

Not to highjack the thread, but VM, how do you like the 2014 Record EPS vs. mechanical? I have both in Chorus (mainly because I got a great deal on the Chorus EPS). Haven't put the Chorus EPS on yet but was curious. I really like the Chorus mechanical (perhaps I'm an outlier, but I think it's a significant upgrade from 10 speed mechanical) I hear that the EPS has better front shifting.

Thanks.

[KJMUNC]

Loving this but the anticipation is killing me.....I have 2015 Chorus all mated up to my C50 have been waiting on a CK sotto voce headset to complete the look. I'm traveling for a couple of weeks so I won't be able to get it up and running until next weekend.

Can't wait to get it up and running and compare to my Dogma with SR11.

I love the next cranks.....didn't think I would but they have totally grown on me.

[beeatnik]

KJMUNC, I like your style.

Btw, still looking for a bike rental in the South Bay?

[Peter B]

A point of clarification: You just picked up a C59 and equipped it with 2015 Record and you call yourself a "cheap bastard?"

Vlad took the words right outta my mouth.

[scho74]

Damn, why did I read this thread. Now I want to replace my 2013 Chorus with the new stuff...damn damn damn.

[Anarchist]

All those pictures just confirm my feelings.

I will go Shimano before I quit Campy 10 speed.

[tmf]

What exactly is the "S2" option on the 2015 front derailleurs?

Here is the verbiage from Campy - I don't know what this means. What is it and what does it do?

"S2 System (Secure Shifting System)
The special support system built into the derailleur safeguards working of the drivetrain, guaranteeing maximum compatibility with frames on the market."

[soulspinner]

And I can't figure out why everyone thinks these long are front ders are the bee's knees. My normal ones shift great. And that's not me being a cranky old man. Seriously, they work great. Easy effort. Three clicks up and three down. No trimming needed either. Full range of the cassette when on the big ring with no rub.

My 9000 fronts work fine too, but not better than my Campagnolo front derailleurs.

Not being a curmudgeon, I just don't get the hype.

Probably because its the only place left to make a real improvement. Im with you, when properly adjusted it all works pretty darn well. We should all be as focused on improving us.

[soulspinner]

What exactly is the "S2" option on the 2015 front derailleurs?

Here is the verbiage from Campy - I don't know what this means. What is it and what does it do?

"S2 System (Secure Shifting System)
The special support system built into the derailleur safeguards working of the drivetrain, guaranteeing maximum compatibility with frames on the market."

guessing its a limiter on front der so the chain doesn't come off and wedge in carbon bikes bb area? dogfang , chain catcher et all?

[Joachim]

guessing its a limiter on front der so the chain doesn't come off and wedge in carbon bikes bb area? dogfang , chain catcher et all?

The pics I saw, showed a Campy chain catcher

[dancinkozmo]

all those pictures just confirm my feelings.

I will go shimano before i quit campy 10 speed.

+1

[saab2000]

All those pictures just confirm my feelings.

I will go Shimano before I quit Campy 10 speed.

I'm totally OK with the aesthetic and the 11 gears. But I'm less keen on the 'new' shape levers, which are not new anymore by any means.

I have Centaur 10-speed levers on my bikes now and they're OK but I actually feel that the older shaped levers functioned better and the shape worked well with my hands. Six or one, half a dozen of the other, but I had a slight preference for the older shape I think now that I've used both for years.

And I felt the older ones worked better, slightly.

I'm not sure if that's a Centaur thing though as I've never used Record 11-speed. I'd love to try the new 2015 Record/Super Record 11-speed in person to see how it compares with the mid-2000s 10-speed stuff, which was the absolute gold standard for me.

[oldpotatoe]

And I can't figure out why everyone thinks these long are front ders are the bee's knees. My normal ones shift great. And that's not me being a cranky old man. Seriously, they work great. Easy effort. Three clicks up and three down. No trimming needed either. Full range of the cassette when on the big ring with no rub.

My 9000 fronts work fine too, but not better than my Campagnolo front derailleurs.

Not being a curmudgeon, I just don't get the hype.

Splitting hairs for sure. shimano front shifting has always been nice, particularly with those uber expen$ive hollow chainrings, but Campagnolo and their far superior ERGO design, has always worked really well.

[oldpotatoe]

[QUOTE=velomonkey;1707490]Great review - as a guy who has 2014 record mechanical and 2014 record EPS I am interested in 2015 mechanical.

Not to highjack the thread, but VM, how do you like the 2014 Record EPS vs. mechanical? I have both in Chorus (mainly because I got a great deal on the Chorus EPS). Haven't put the Chorus EPS on yet but was curious. I really like the Chorus mechanical (perhaps I'm an outlier, but I think it's a significant upgrade from 10 speed mechanical) I hear that the EPS has better front shifting.

Thanks.

Having EPS, I can say front shifting is great, but so is mechanical Campagnolo front shifting. Push a button and trons move it, or push a lever and a cable does it. Result is the same. AND when you travel up the cogset you get a little whirr, as the front der centers, if all. It is keen stuff, EPS.

[oldpotatoe]

What exactly is the "S2" option on the 2015 front derailleurs?

Here is the verbiage from Campy - I don't know what this means. What is it and what does it do?

"S2 System (Secure Shifting System)
The special support system built into the derailleur safeguards working of the drivetrain, guaranteeing maximum compatibility with frames on the market."

Wee little tab on the top of the front der to push against frame for those brazeon tabs where, on many carbon frames, they are really soft and flexy. Same as the wee plate and screw in post on shimano. Not required on clampon.

Campagnolo also has a chain watcher tab.

[Joachim]

^^ beat me to it :). Everyone who rides Campy needs a Campy chain catcher. Between $50-$70

[zap]

Have always felt that Campy front shifting is the Gold Standard. However, setting up an 11s FD where there's no rubbing requires some type of medieval alchemy. Don't know a single home wrench who can pull it off. For that reason, on a few bikes I've gone with 10s FD's to get a wider cage. Now, with the 2015 stuff, there's virtually no rubbing in any combination of gears. You can cross chain for days. The cage, I believe, is wider than 2009-2014.

This home wrench did get the 11 front derailleur working perfectly…..without resorting to inline adjusters. The setup method is posted on weight weenies.

It did take about half hour of fiddling….to the point I was thinking of getting a 10 front derailleur. I'm not sure I want to go through the process again when it comes time to replace the cable.

Joachim, why the need for a campy chain catcher?

[soulspinner]

^^ beat me to it :). Everyone who rides Campy needs a Campy chain catcher. Between $50-$70



Carbon?:p

[Joachim]

This home wrench did get the 11 front derailleur working perfectly…..without resorting to inline adjusters. The setup method is posted on weight weenies.

It did take about half hour of fiddling….to the point I was thinking of getting a 10 front derailleur. I'm not sure I want to go through the process again when it comes time to replace the cable.

Joachim, why the need for a campy chain catcher?


Any other chain catcher will cause the Campy front der to drop the chain between the chainstay and the chainrings, pretty much wrecking your frame.

[velomonkey]

Not to highjack the thread, but VM, how do you like the 2014 Record EPS vs. mechanical? I have both in Chorus (mainly because I got a great deal on the Chorus EPS). Haven't put the Chorus EPS on yet but was curious. I really like the Chorus mechanical (perhaps I'm an outlier, but I think it's a significant upgrade from 10 speed mechanical) I hear that the EPS has better front shifting.

Thanks.


I haven't really been able to put it through it's paces since I just got it and we have 3 feet of snow outside and temps in the teens, but . . . .the front shifting is where it's at, it's the bees knees. It trims all of it's own - even if you're dumping in the back it trims up front with no input. I have version 1 with the external battery, too.

Rear shifting is still nice, while there are many things I like about campy it's dumping gears as one of the top things I like. We dump gears here all the time given the rollers we have for hills - and then I dump them on my rollers doing intervals. EPS is an improvement, a bit, cause it's exact, but the front shifting is the huge area of "wow." At least for me it is.

[GeorgeTSquirrel]

The only thing I can tell is... why took them so many years to make that arm longer in the FD? :/

Like they had in 2007-2008?
QS era had longer FD arms. They must not have thought the upgrade worthwhile and dropped it, only to revive it for marketing purposes when Shimano adopted it.

[beeatnik]

I'm totally OK with the aesthetic and the 11 gears. But I'm less keen on the 'new' shape levers, which are not new anymore by any means.

I have Centaur 10-speed levers on my bikes now and they're OK but I actually feel that the older shaped levers functioned better and the shape worked well with my hands. Six or one, half a dozen of the other, but I had a slight preference for the older shape I think now that I've used both for years.

And I felt the older ones worked better, slightly.

I'm not sure if that's a Centaur thing though as I've never used Record 11-speed. I'd love to try the new 2015 Record/Super Record 11-speed in person to see how it compares with the mid-2000s 10-speed stuff, which was the absolute gold standard for me.

The new hoods gain a small amount of real estate and the rubber compound is pretty firm. On the hoods 2015 Rev feels closer to the old 10s shape than 2009-2014 11s. So there may be a small change in lever feel as a result.

[El Chaba]

I'm totally OK with the aesthetic and the 11 gears. But I'm less keen on the 'new' shape levers, which are not new anymore by any means.

I have Centaur 10-speed levers on my bikes now and they're OK but I actually feel that the older shaped levers functioned better and the shape worked well with my hands. Six or one, half a dozen of the other, but I had a slight preference for the older shape I think now that I've used both for years.

And I felt the older ones worked better, slightly.

I'm not sure if that's a Centaur thing though as I've never used Record 11-speed. I'd love to try the new 2015 Record/Super Record 11-speed in person to see how it compares with the mid-2000s 10-speed stuff, which was the absolute gold standard for me.

With each new generation of components, I increasingly appreciate the look and function of the Campagnolo 10 speed components. Apparently, I am not alone, as NOS 10 speed Record and Chorus components generally command a higher price than their 11 speed counterparts.

[oldpotatoe]

With each new generation of components, I increasingly appreciate the look and function of the Campagnolo 10 speed components. Apparently, I am not alone, as NOS 10 speed Record and Chorus components generally command a higher price than their 11 speed counterparts.

Not unlike 8s when 9 happened and 9s with 10, shimano as well. 7700 DA as an example. I really like the ergonomics of the 'gumby' hoods and when I think of the any CR combo crank, I wonder, what took that so long?

[woodworker]

I haven't really been able to put it through it's paces since I just got it and we have 3 feet of snow outside and temps in the teens, but . . . .the front shifting is where it's at, it's the bees knees. It trims all of it's own - even if you're dumping in the back it trims up front with no input. I have version 1 with the external battery, too.

Rear shifting is still nice, while there are many things I like about campy it's dumping gears as one of the top things I like. We dump gears here all the time given the rollers we have for hills - and then I dump them on my rollers doing intervals. EPS is an improvement, a bit, cause it's exact, but the front shifting is the huge area of "wow." At least for me it is.

Thanks for the info. That's in line with what I thought. Here's hoping that you get a reprieve from the snow. Here in San Diego, the only thing that's piling up is my guilt in not getting out enough due to work and family commitments. Looking forward to installing eps and trying it out.

[bluesea]

Ribble has another Campy groupset sale, although not sure if the savings are equal to last new years.

[thegunner]

UGH i can't get over this new 4 arm thing.

[oldpotatoe]

UGH i can't get over this new 4 arm thing.

Campagnolo has been '4 arm' for decades(1984)......

[thegunner]

Campagnolo has been '4 arm' for decades(1984)......

except for when they used 5 arms throughout the 2000's...

i mean aesthetically it's not pleasant (no i don't doubt it's stiffness ;))

[oldpotatoe]

except for when they used 5 arms throughout the 2000's...

i mean aesthetically it's not pleasant (no i don't doubt it's stiffness ;))

Nope, still '4 arm', count 'em....but I know what ya mean.

[GeorgeTSquirrel]

Nope, still '4 arm', count 'em....but I know what ya mean.

*eyeroll*

Ok, let's call it 4 bolt vs 5 bolt then.

[GuyGadois]

I also like the 2015 Campy groups. Last year I purchased the 2014 Chorus group for a new-used bike I picked up. I like group. I shifts great and I love the mid-compact size. Inn decided to pick up another group last month for my existing bike. When the components arrived I was surprised to see every one has gone through a major change (except for the chain and cups). I have only had the group on for a week but have also found it very good. I really like the new hoods and the shifting is very crisp. I am a bit concerned, though, the front derailleur is made in Romania and the brake set is made in, gulp, Taiwan. Did this change a while ago and I never noticed?

Here is my pimped ride.

GG

https://s3-us-std-207-prod.digitalhub.com/CAEQARoQ-L-O8LfBK5So-oZaQhFcEA/01aa9e2859eeecbb7b3559d3676ea0486a54c1d323/IMG_0012.JPG?v=0&p=1&x=1&a=BZpa75W5REpDA8ojKQ%3D%3D&e=1424072260000&r=80f9919b-6640-49eb-b13f-c5c9f2aa33a6-3&u=1424064760919&c=Cv4DCtoDCv0CCih1cy1zdGQtMDAwMDEuczMtZXh0ZXJuYWwt MS5hbWF6b25hd3MuY29tEFAaA0dFVCLFAS9HY18taUw0QlM1Q3 I2TDBBbWhfZD94LWNsaWVudC1yZXF1ZXN0LWlkPTgwZjk5MTli LTY2NDAtNDllYi1iMTNmLWM1YzlmMmFhMzNhNiZFeHBpcmVzPT E0MjQwNjQ3NjAmYnl0ZS1yYW5nZT0wLTE4NjM5NTYmQVdTQWNj ZXNzS2V5SWQ9QUtJQUlXV1IzM0VDSEtQQzJMVUEmU2lnbmF0dX JlPVM4S1lIN0lZSWh0OCUyQmdmVWlkOFU4Sml6QXdnJTNEKgRI VFRQMgMxLjE6BGh0dHBCKwoKeC1hbXotZGF0ZRIdTW9uLCAxNi BGZWIgMjAxNSAwNDozNzo0MCBHTVRCGAoFUmFuZ2USD2J5dGVz PTAtMTg2Mzk1NkINCgZBY2NlcHQSAyovKkoJczNfdXNfc3RkUg lzM191c19zdGRY15j_hrkpEjAKFYGVAmYTP_6zd4SoQp1pXJ48 HsuPlRIRAdiaRefs8SgG3KmpPWCoUmAYleJxIAAaFEdjXy1pTD RCUzVDcjZMMEFtaF9kIhBBeEhkbUQ2R2FNQ3FqaU1wEh8KFQGq nihZ7uy7ezVZ02duoEhqVMHTIxIECAAQACgAIAI&s=RGWM6vqxzqDYcn4AJ2A2HDixKt4

[donn12]

The 2015 stuff looks nice. I really like the separate chain ring...too bad 2015 won't work with the older groups on all my other bikes!

[beeatnik]

Just spent a week dialing in the shifting on a Chorus 11 gruppo. Put the groupset on my Carl Strong and thought it would be automatic. I mean steel frame, no internal routing. As good as it gets, right? Nope. Worst shifting I've ever experienced. Worse than SRAMz, even. Without enumerating all that went into 3 days of forensics, shifting is now about 90% on. Basically, if you run 2015 Revolution, make sure you follow the exact Campy instructions on chain length (um, I trusted my best-in-the-city-30-years-of-experience Campy wrench) and your plastic cassette spacers are in the correct order (the 2.3mm spacer goes between the 3 cog carrier and the 2 cog carrier). Who would have ever thought .1mm would affect shifting. This is what makes Campy both rad and almost irrelevant.

Oh, to add insult to injury, the crap shifting only occurred with Campy freehub wheels. I used a couple of Shimano 11s wheels with Ultegra cassettes and shifting was precise (well, clunky here and there but 95% accurate).

[oldpotatoe]

Just spent a week dialing in the shifting on a Chorus 11 gruppo. Put the groupset on my Carl Strong and thought it would be automatic. I mean steel frame, no internal routing. As good as it gets, right? Nope. Worst shifting I've ever experienced. Worse than SRAMz, even. Without enumerating all that went into 3 days of forensics, shifting is now about 90% on. Basically, if you run 2015 Revolution, make sure you follow the exact Campy instructions on chain length (um, I trusted my best-in-the-city-30-years-of-experience Campy wrench) and your plastic cassette spacers are in the correct order (the 2.3mm spacer goes between the 3 cog carrier and the 2 cog carrier). Who would have ever thought .1mm would affect shifting. This is what makes Campy both rad and almost irrelevant.

Oh, to add insult to injury, the crap shifting only occurred with Campy freehub wheels. I used a couple of Shimano 11s wheels with Ultegra cassettes and shifting was precise (well, clunky here and there but 95% accurate).

Not trying to slam anybodies wrenching skills, but IMHO, setting up Campagnolo is quite easy. Done it a 'few' times. Not sure why you are having such problems. Spacers in wrong order? Der hanger? Cable housing cut cleanly? Routed behind handlebars? Long enough? 5mm housing at rear der?Wee bit of grease on delrin carrier in lever?

Something is amiss.

[PFSLABD]

I wouldn't mind having Campy gear, but Shimano Ultegra has always worked for me. I can't afford Dura Ace, and that's on a par with Campy groupos in my opinion, though I'll probably be beat up by the Campy folks out there for even daring to say something like that.

[R3awak3n]

I dont know nothing you said is offensive at all. Ultegra is great. Its hard to compete with it

[sandyrs]

I wouldn't mind having Campy gear, but Shimano Ultegra has always worked for me. I can't afford Dura Ace, and that's on a par with Campy groupos in my opinion, though I'll probably be beat up by the Campy folks out there for even daring to say something like that.

A few years ago this might have been met with more ire but the Shimano 11 speed groups are so incontrovertibly great that even Campy die hards seem willing to admit that from a functional standpoint, 5800 and 6800 are as good as anything out there.

[R3awak3n]

Its just hard to match the price, even athena which is great its slightly more expensive. 6800. When it comes to 105 you really just can't beat it.

[oldpotatoe]

Its just hard to match the price, even athena which is great its slightly more expensive. 6800. When it comes to 105 you really just can't beat it.

Agree. The Campagnolo prices are great, shimano 6800/5800 'almost' unbelievable.

[Avincent52]

Why no love for the new cranks?
We've been using the new Campy components )Super Record, Record and Chorus) for a few months and I think the crankset is one of the best improvements. You can swap chainrings from compact - mid - standard. That alone is worth the upgrade!

Two words: it's ugly

[saab2000]

My Campagnolo stuff has historically worked very well. I'm now riding two Shimano 9000 groups in addition to my Campagnolo groups. On the road they're virtually indistinguishable. Getting my Shimano front shifting set up properly was a monumental PITA and now that it works properly it's as good as my Campagnolo front shifting as always been. There's no snark there but I don't get the hype and actually find Shimano's less functional because it requires a trim click whereas my Campagnolo is shifted onto the large ring and I can go from the smallest cog to the biggest with no rub.

To the poster who had trouble with Campagnolo's shifting all I can say is that I experienced the say feeling of "meh" when I got my Shimano stuff. I was like, "Is this really what everyone was raving about?" Now I've got it working well and it's fine but hardly something I'd call earth shaking.

Get the spacers correct on the cassette. That is critical. And make sure your cables aren't too short or binding.

[beeatnik]

Not trying to slam anybodies wrenching skills, but IMHO, setting up Campagnolo is quite easy. Done it a 'few' times. Not sure why you are having such problems. Spacers in wrong order? Der hanger? Cable housing cut cleanly? Routed behind handlebars? Long enough? 5mm housing at rear der?Wee bit of grease on delrin carrier in lever?

Something is amiss.

Der hanger aligned, yes
Cable housing cut cleanly and long enough, yes
5mm housing at RD, yes
Grease on carrier in lever, yes
Spacers in wrong order, they were

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/580/20703743179_1a8f43588b_o.jpg

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5769/20864217126_106391b23c_o.jpg

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/631/20864216426_04e8792a03_o.jpg

All this sounds simple to me now, but after spending 3 days and $300 at 3 shops (two of which are the top Campy shops in LA), it must not really be that simple, right? I mean the fact that the problem was solved by using a Shimano wheel just confirms the belief that Campy is "finicky." I mean does every single step need to be perfect? For instance, I was never able to get Athena to shift properly on my semi-horizontal dropout Cielo. It had to be the that almost microscopic bit of misalignment at the dropouts. Again, 3 different guys with about 100 years experience working on Campy were never able to get that 100% accurate 100% of the time shifting. Then I had a buddy with 2 years of wrenching put 6800 on the bike. Perfection. IMO, it shouldn't be this complicated.

this was "sub-optimal"
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8264/8694681032_a7763a3042.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8396/8693559801_40dc960c7e.jpg

this is robot smooth
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7592/16933325626_50b7333642_o.jpg

Anyway, my takeaway w/ 2015 Revolution: get that chain length right.

[yashcha]

Since there is no reach adjust, how are the Campagnolo shifters working for people with small hands? I am thinking about going to Campagnolo on my new Jaegher Phantom...

[pinoymamba]

Since there is no reach adjust, how are the Campagnolo shifters working for people with small hands? I am thinking about going to Campagnolo on my new Jaegher Phantom...

i thought they were made for people with small hands? they come with a shim to extend the shifter out further for people with larger hands.

[livingminimal]

Since this thread got necro'd, I went through it and checked it all out...
Couple of takeaways for me were:

There are people that work on Campag, and there are people that are truly great with it (speak it). Beat- Eric @ East West Bikes in Fullerton has to be one of the best locally. He's all campag, all the time. Your mechanics were probably great mechanics, but unfortunately it seems like it does require a special touch sometimes, especially with certain frames.

Takeaway two is just confirmation of something I already knew: all pretense aside, Shimano is just as good if not better than Campag, and the idea that people equate chorus to DA is pure folly.

I do miss my thumb shifters with campag tho.

[oldpotatoe]

Since this thread got necro'd, I went through it and checked it all out...
Couple of takeaways for me were:

There are people that work on Campag, and there are people that are truly great with it (speak it). Beat- Eric @ East West Bikes in Fullerton has to be one of the best locally. He's all campag, all the time. Your mechanics were probably great mechanics, but unfortunately it seems like it does require a special touch sometimes, especially with certain frames.

Takeaway two is just confirmation of something I already knew: all pretense aside, Shimano is just as good if not better than Campag, and the idea that people equate chorus to DA is pure folly.

I do miss my thumb shifters with campag tho.

Tough to compare, because often all you have is price and materials. Using that, Chorus is closer to DA than it is to ultegra. Carbon is expensive compared to aluminum. BUT now functionally, the top 3 groups of both have the same or similar 'guts' to them.

As on the bike, I challenge anybody to be able to tell the difference between 6800->9000 and Record-SR-Chorus..

[Megalodon]

By virtue of being metal, Dura-Ace has a much better finish than plastic Campy components.

[zap]

Have always felt that Campy front shifting is the Gold Standard. However, setting up an 11s FD where there's no rubbing requires some type of medieval alchemy. Don't know a single home wrench who can pull it off.

I was able to get it to work as specified......it did take some time....about 10 minutes. There is a trick to it....think I found it on weight weenies 2 years ago. The 10 speed front derailleur is very easy to setup.

[FlashUNC]

Tough to compare, because often all you have is price and materials. Using that, Chorus is closer to DA than it is to ultegra. Carbon is expensive compared to aluminum. BUT now functionally, the top 3 groups of both have the same or similar 'guts' to them.

As on the bike, I challenge anybody to be able to tell the difference between 6800->9000 and Record-SR-Chorus..

I still think my Chorus shifters/SR RD feels different in the shift than my original Chorus/Chorus setup.

But there's too many variables to really say its due to a full carbon RD over a carbon/alloy unit.

Does feel right nice though.

[MaraudingWalrus]

I've pulled some shenanigans, and just got my new CAAD12 today, and put new Record shifters & rear derailleur on, and have what may well be the universe's only single-chainring Campagnolo CAAD12. It's so far, quite splendid, though does need a different size chainring, which is fine, as I have a 50t rotor Q ring coming in later this week. Should be a fantastic riding bike for around here.


Had never had a Campy bike before, but I do really like it so far. That said, I accept that I am missing out on the joys of a Campy front derailleur. It's pretty sweet.

[R3awak3n]

I've pulled some shenanigans, and just got my new CAAD12 today, and put new Record shifters & rear derailleur on, and have what may well be the universe's only single-chainring Campagnolo CAAD12. It's so far, quite splendid, though does need a different size chainring, which is fine, as I have a 50t rotor Q ring coming in later this week. Should be a fantastic riding bike for around here.


Had never had a Campy bike before, but I do really like it so far. That said, I accept that I am missing out on the joys of a Campy front derailleur. It's pretty sweet.

sounds awesome, lets see some pics :)

[MaraudingWalrus]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160126/790458e1da1de97c660b447ed402c46b.jpg

So far really only have the one. Will have more tomorrow.

[lhuerta]

For instance, I was never able to get Athena to shift properly on my semi-horizontal dropout Cielo. It had to the that almost microscopic bit of misalignment at the dropouts. Again, 3 different guys with about 100 years experience working on Campy were never able to get that 100% accurate 100% of the time shifting. Then I had a buddy with 2 years of wrenching put 6800 on the bike. Perfection. IMO, it shouldn't be this complicated.
.


...u just defined the difference between precision (Campagnolo) and slop (Shimano).

BTW, there is no such thing as a Campy mechanic. If your "mechanic" can't work on all brands of parts on any bike, then he/she is just a bike assembler...a big distinction.

[waypastfast]

Any thoughts between 2009 SR Mechanical vs Di2? I am toying with the idea of buying a complete new bike with Di2 and retiring or selling my current steed with mechanical SR. Thanks!

[oldpotatoe]

Any thoughts between 2009 SR Mechanical vs Di2? I am toying with the idea of buying a complete new bike with Di2 and retiring or selling my current steed with mechanical SR. Thanks!

Altho they both move the chain around, really different stuff. I'd be sure to ride Di2 before you buy it. It works really consistently(as does EPS) but you may not like the 'feel' or lack thereof, of the small shift lever 'buttons'.

[ultraman6970]

The 11 speed Campy FD set up is totally different than the 10 speed ones, you have to do exactly as the instructions says. You use the tension screw to adjust it, SO far the 11 record and chorus Ive seen no problems with FD rubbing, eventhought I hate the 3 clicks no ratcheting new mechanism but it works.