SRAM really misses the boat...

[ergott]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2006/features/sram_road_launch

Since the cable pull is not compatable with Shimano or Campagnolo you have to go SRAM all the way. This is not a great idea. There are plenty of people that mix Shimano and Campagnolo as well as throwing other companies like FSA in the mix. The component options by sticking with Shimano and Campy are wide open. If you go SRAM you go all SRAM. You can't even mix in mtn stuff because the road group isn't even compatable with their own mtn stuff. There are plenty of people mixing Shimano road and mtn in their cross rigs. There are people who like the feel or Ergopower levers, but use them in a Shimano setup for tandems and climbing bikes. I've used Record rear der with a Dura Ace lever for MT Washington so I could get the 34.

Before you jump on the SRAM wagon, keep in mind you can't use the stuff with Shimano, Campy or FSA.

[weiwentg]

actually, Shimano and Campy rear derailleurs have unique cable pulls - you can't use an S rear derailleur with C shifters or vice versa without some sort of cable pull changing thingy like the Jtek shiftmate - which could easily be adapted for Sram and Shimano or Sram and Campy. so, you have to pair up Shimano and Campy shifters and rear derailleurs - and you have to do the same for Sram. it does sound like Sram's front derailleur will only go with their own shifters, but this isn't a huge negative. I would be more concerned if they had a different spline pattern for the cassette - they're probably using the Shimano spline.

record long cage rear derailleurs would only go up to 29t in the back with a triple. I'm sure they could take a 34t cassette with a double, but so could a Shimano rear derailleur. I guess I'm not 100% clear on your setup for Washington - did you use a compact front with a road rear cluster, or an MTB rear cluster?

[Too Tall]

Why not FSA?

[Clay]

I have seen it first hand. touched it felt it, played with it. It is by far the lightest and most incredibly efficient mechanical shifting mechanism going. It will be used by a couple of teams on the tour on 2007. I am Campy user and will definitely, pardon the pun......shift over.....to the new SRAM road system when available. If SRAM missed the boat at all it will be if Campy and Shimanos electric shifting system works. Only time will tell on that front.

[ergott]

actually, Shimano and Campy rear derailleurs have unique cable pulls - you can't use an S rear derailleur with C shifters or vice versa without some sort of cable pull changing thingy like the Jtek shiftmate - which could easily be adapted for Sram and Shimano or Sram and Campy. so, you have to pair up Shimano and Campy shifters and rear derailleurs - and you have to do the same for Sram. it does sound like Sram's front derailleur will only go with their own shifters, but this isn't a huge negative. I would be more concerned if they had a different spline pattern for the cassette - they're probably using the Shimano spline.

record long cage rear derailleurs would only go up to 29t in the back with a triple. I'm sure they could take a 34t cassette with a double, but so could a Shimano rear derailleur. I guess I'm not 100% clear on your setup for Washington - did you use a compact front with a road rear cluster, or an MTB rear cluster?

I never used any shiftmate. I did the reroute trick with the cable. You anchor the cable 90 counterclockwise for the normal mounting position. Actually, I used the Ergo lever with a Shimano XT rear der and cassette (sorry for the messup). I know people have tried mixing both 10 speed systems with great results. The pull difference between S & C is not that different. Maybe the SRAM won't be that different...

[ergott]

Why not FSA?

The FSA front der works with Shimano and Campy pull ratios.

[gdw]

Sram hasn't missed the boat. Their drivetrain is proprietary just like Shimano and Campys so what's the big deal? They market mountain bike shifters which are compatible with Shimano rear derailleurs and will probably do the same if the road market wants it.

[Keith A]

I say hooray for SRAM! It is nice to see another player on the field and they certainly seem to be taking this very seriously and have produced what appears to be a solid product. So move over Shimano and Campy, someone else wants a piece of the pie.

[H1449-6]

I went to SRAM to see where to see/buy the group and didn't see anything.

Anyone know how/where to buy, pricing, etc?

[Rover-Rich]

I know people have tried mixing both 10 speed systems with great results. The pull difference between S & C is not that different. Maybe the SRAM won't be that different...

Interesting Eric, have you tried using Shimano RD/Levers with Campy casettes without a shiftmate? How about Campy RD/Levers with Shimano casettes. Reason I ask is that all my wheels are S, but I'd like try C levers/RD.

[sspielman]

To me, the biggest problem that we face with bike parts is the lack of standardisation. I don't think that there is any real lack of competition. So by jumping into the game, SRAM could have helped the standardisation issue if they utilised either the Campagnolo or Shimano patterns...instead they did neither. In any event, they are pretending to be producing an entire gruppo when they are really only producing a drivetrain with brakes...no pedals....no headset......no seatpost.....no hubs.....I can't see that they are bringing anything new to the table. They are very good at marketing though, so there will be plenty of hype....

[ergott]

Interesting Eric, have you tried using Shimano RD/Levers with Campy casettes without a shiftmate? How about Campy RD/Levers with Shimano casettes. Reason I ask is that all my wheels are S, but I'd like try C levers/RD.

3 out of 4 of my wheelsets have Shimano freehubs. The main reason was because I wanted the ability of using a mtb cassette if ever the need arose. My Phil Wood set is Shimano because you have no choice. I use a Dura Ace 10 cassette with a Wipperman Campy 10 chain and Record mechs and Ergopower.

[Bill Bove]

I have a group on order. Orbea tells me that they will be the first ones to have it in the country and that you'll only be able to get it in their "Made to Order" program so I ordered an Arin aluminum frame with the A level SRAM group. I'll ride it for a while and probably sell both the frame and the group... but who knows...

[catulle]

Doesn't it make sense to wait and see?

And, yes, this is a prefectly rethorical question. :)

[MikeS]

This stuff is dope!!! I have visited all the fine Folks at SRAM and have played with the shifters. They feel so good and more responsive than S or C - I have both. There is no delay so once contact is made you are ready to shift. This will be great for smaller hands. I already ride and rave about their mountain stuff and as soon as I get some of this I will rave about it more. It will be lighter and better than Shimano and Campy.

Long Live SRAM

[inGobwetrust]

To me, the biggest problem that we face with bike parts is the lack of standardisation. I don't think that there is any real lack of competition. So by jumping into the game, SRAM could have helped the standardisation issue if they utilised either the Campagnolo or Shimano patterns...instead they did neither. In any event, they are pretending to be producing an entire gruppo when they are really only producing a drivetrain with brakes...no pedals....no headset......no seatpost.....no hubs.....I can't see that they are bringing anything new to the table. They are very good at marketing though, so there will be plenty of hype....


Nothing new to the table? How about a completely new and original drivetrain? There are plenty of headsets, seatposts, and hubs on the market but very few choices in road drivetrains. This can only be good for the consumer as it will force S and C to innovate and improve.

[William]

Hey, I'd give them a go.

Now when a Campy vs Shimano thread pops up, the SRAM folks will watch and giggle for a bit...then head out to ride. ;)


William

[stevep]

parts interchangeability between brands is not necessarily a development thought for the companies.
for the record the sram stuff will be integrated with shimano hubs ( not the new 10 spd hubs i understand ) for ease of integration.
the drive train stuff will not be designed to be interchangeable with other brands.
chevrolet will not make transmissions for ford this year either.
why should they?

[Keith A]

3 out of 4 of my wheelsets have Shimano freehubs. The main reason was because I wanted the ability of using a mtb cassette if ever the need arose. My Phil Wood set is Shimano because you have no choice. I use a Dura Ace 10 cassette with a Wipperman Campy 10 chain and Record mechs and Ergopower.There doesn't seem to be any indication as to if the rear gear spacing is the same (or similar enough) to Shimano's or Campy's. It seems to me that they would be shooting themselves in the foot if they weren't compatible with one or the other as this would slow the acceptance of their group (atmo). Having to purchase new front and rear derailleurs to go along with the shifters is no big deal, but replacing a wheelset is a different ball game (especially if you have a high dollar one). I would think this would cause people to think twice before spending their money.

[stevep]

hubs interchangeable w/ shimano ( but i believe not the new, deep 10 spd versions )

[Keith A]

Thanks Steve -- I saw your note after I posted my message. I expected they would choose Shimano as it would appear there are more hubs available for this format.