Interesting setup on this Litespeed

[jmoore]

My friend is a mechanic in Ohio and sent me this pic. Apparently the shifting has been way off for a couple of years. I'd say it's not just the shifting that needs attention.

[Gummee]

Your friend should know better than to clamp a bike there.

...unless he really really wants to replace someone's Litespeed that is

M

[lhuerta]

Your friend should know better than to clamp a bike there.

...unless he really really wants to replace someone's Litespeed that is

M

...I think he meant "mechanic", not mechanic

[jmoore]

Your friend should know better than to clamp a bike there.

...unless he really really wants to replace someone's Litespeed that is

M

I'll let him know.

[jmoore]

...I think he meant "mechanic", not mechanic
Negative

[jmoore]

FYI, the shifting is now fixed (rear derailler setup issue).

And my friend has been notified of your views on his clamping ineptness.

[chiasticon]

to be fair, it is difficult to shift when you can't even pedal

[jmoore]

Your friend should know better than to clamp a bike there.

...unless he really really wants to replace someone's Litespeed that is

M

From my friend: "I clamp where I want to clamp."

[Cicli]

From my friend: "I clamp where I want to clamp."

Your friend is a hack then.

Sorry but somebody had to say it.

[phcollard]

From my friend: "I clamp where I want to clamp."

Until he cracks a $3k+ frame I guess. Looks like he did not take it.

[berserk87]

Your friend is a hack then.

Sorry but somebody had to say it.

No need to name call. This isn't one of those other forums.

I was always taught not to clamp a CF tube in a repair stand.

But what he does is between him, his customer, and his employer.

[jmoore]

No need to name call. This isn't one of those other forums.

I was always taught not to clamp a CF tube in a repair stand.

But what he does is between him, his customer, and his employer.

The bike is fine. The customer is very happy. His employer is happy because the shop has gained a new customer.

[pitcrew]

The style of clamp he's using wouldn't extert the same type of force as the standard/spring loaded Park clamp.

That being said, I still (personally) wouldn't apply the clamp to a frame tube (anywhere)

[Gummee]

The bike is fine.
This time.

Important safety hint: DO NOT clamp AL or CF frames by anything other than the seatpost. ...and then it better not be superlight CF either.

AMHIK

M

[Cicli]

No need to name call. This isn't one of those other forums.

I was always taught not to clamp a CF tube in a repair stand.

But what he does is between him, his customer, and his employer.

Thanks, but when a technician charges money for a service that makes him a professional. Professional technicians do things correctly. They also take the well intended advice of others. I have been turning wrenches for a living my entire professional career. You never respond to well intended advice with "I will do it my way".

I train professionals for a major truck manufacturer. You Texas boys can guess who. Anyone who treats a customers equipment like that is a hack and should not be in the business. Sorry if I offended.

[Gummee]

Thanks, but when a technician charges money for a service that makes him a professional. Professional technicians do things correctly. They also take the well intended advice of others. I have been turning wrenches for a living my entire professional career. You never respond to well intended advice with "I will do it my way".

I train professionals for a major truck manufacturer. You Texas boys can guess who. Anyone who treats a customers equipment like that is a hack and should not be in the business. Sorry if I offended.+1

If you're going to post a pic, make sure you're doing it right first.

M

[jmoore]

Im not offended. My friend has been a mechanic for a long time. He knows what he's doing. Hes been at his shop for a long time and his boss likes him.

If he's crushing $3k framesets then that would not be the case for long. I don't know why he clamped it there. Seems odd to me but there could be any number of explanations.

At any rate its not my bike and all is well.

This is not where I expected this post to go. At all.

[Cicli]

Once again, sorry to be a turd.

[Dead Man]

I've seen this shifter-as-joystick setup around... I haven't had an opportunity to ask anyone why, and I think I might be too embarrassed for them to be able to do it tactfully even if the opportunity arose.. but I do know that more and more dudes are riding 100% of the time on the hoods. Thinking about it like that, this sort of makes sense. Kind of seems like you'd just go to bullhorns and be more aero at that point, but I suspect guys want to maintain the classic look of a road bike, even if they're not riding their road bike like a road bike.

Not trying to be super critcal... just noting some ironies.

(and yea... seat tube in the clamp isn't cool, but I strongly suspect a lot of mechanics do it when nobody is looking)

[Gummee]

(and yea... seat tube in the clamp isn't cool, but I strongly suspect a lot of mechanics do it when nobody is looking)
Not *this* mechanic!

I've had to explain why a seat tube was crimped before. (and how long it'd take us to get another frame) Nie wieder! ...and that was WAY back in the mid-90s before I was taught better. Till then: steel? Clamp it pretty much anywhere you wanted to.

M

[phcollard]

Thanks, but when a technician charges money for a service that makes him a professional. Professional technicians do things correctly. They also take the well intended advice of others. I have been turning wrenches for a living my entire professional career. You never respond to well intended advice with "I will do it my way".

I train professionals for a major truck manufacturer. You Texas boys can guess who. Anyone who treats a customers equipment like that is a hack and should not be in the business. Sorry if I offended.

I agree 100%. And it was indeed a well intended advice.

No mean to derail this thread but it's a common trend now to talk to a mechanic in a bike shop and he's looking at you like he knows better and then he starts to serve you his best bulltalk.

I am not saying they are all like this. But it's a trend.

The other day I wanted a Michelin tube for my front wheel. Just a Michelin because I like them and I'm a bit OCD and my rear wheel has a Michelin already.

So I ask a Michelin, which I know this LBS carries. The mechanic looks at me like I'm a total jerk. "A Michelin? Seriously? Why do you absolutely need a Michelin. I've got some Kenda's that do the same job holding air and they are half the price. Do you believe the Michelin is gonna ride better?".

"Dude I want a Michelin because your Kenda valves s*ck, and I can afford an extra 4 bucks, and they are right on the shelf next to you".

[martinez]

^ that's insane. I feel like the usually have tried to steer me in the more expensive options for the most part.
But that's definitely an inappropriate and unnecessary approach to take when taking to a customer. Not cool!

[phcollard]

^ that's insane. I feel like the usually have tried to steer me in the more expensive options for the most part.
But that's definitely an inappropriate and unnecessary approach to take when taking to a customer. Not cool!

Yes. Just like the mechanic who says "I clamp where I want" when I come pickup my $$$ carbon bike and I notice it is clamped by the seat tube! :eek:

Anyways that will never happen because I believe I'm a better wrench than any mechanic at any LBS around here, if I say so myself :)

[berserk87]

Thanks, but when a technician charges money for a service that makes him a professional. Professional technicians do things correctly. They also take the well intended advice of others. I have been turning wrenches for a living my entire professional career. You never respond to well intended advice with "I will do it my way".

I train professionals for a major truck manufacturer. You Texas boys can guess who. Anyone who treats a customers equipment like that is a hack and should not be in the business. Sorry if I offended.

I don't disagree with your point, and it's much better expressed as you have stated it above, until the hack part, which adds nothing but an insult to some forum member's friend. Your point was solid without the hack part, so it adds only potential angst.

I was making an effort to keep the thread from devolving into a name-calling fest. I don't want to make a big issue of it. I am fond of this place because of the lack of such things.

[numbskull]

Too short a chain?

[A1CKot]

I always thought you shouldn't clamp on the frame because if the clamp slips it could mess up the paint regardless of material.

[Grant McLean]

The other day I wanted a Michelin tube for my front wheel. Just a Michelin because I like them and I'm a bit OCD and my rear wheel has a Michelin already.

So I ask a Michelin, which I know this LBS carries. The mechanic looks at me like I'm a total jerk. "A Michelin? Seriously? Why do you absolutely need a Michelin. I've got some Kenda's that do the same job holding air and they are half the price. Do you believe the Michelin is gonna ride better?".

"Dude I want a Michelin because your Kenda valves s*ck, and I can afford an extra 4 bucks, and they are right on the shelf next to you".

sadly, this is such a typical of the attitude of so many shop guys.
It's like some mechanics are missing a gene that allows them to speak
without adding their personal opinion, when nobody asked for their opinion.
There is a yes or no answer to the question, 'do you have a michelin tube?',
instead you get an uninformed diatribe on the contemporary rubber industry.

-g

[earlfoss]

If I owned that bike and saw it clamped in that fashion I'd be nice but never bring my bike back to that shop again. That and the cavalier attitude is exactly why.

[Grant McLean]

If I owned that bike and saw it clamped in that fashion I'd be nice but never bring my bike back to that shop again.

Obviously it's well known not to clamp frame tubes with the stand,
(in a practial sense, it mostly poses a risk to the paint, you're likely
to scratch the clear coat if the bike is yanked left or right)....
But i think it's easy to go overboard getting out the pitchforks and
torches when you see a bike 'hanging' in a stand by the seat tube.

I own a $6,000 Parlee Z-1 frame that i have no qualms whatsoever
about placing in a stand by the seat tube. I'm not talking about
crushing it with high clamping force, but enough to hold it there.

I'm quite sure the front derailleur clamped to my seat tube is
exerting a heck of a lot more force on the tube than a rag wrapped
around the frame in the stand. It can be mostly friction holding
a frame by the tube. So personally, i'm not that freaked out by it
if the mechanic actually knows how to hold the frame in the stand.

-g

[Black Dog]

Obviously it's well known not to clamp frame tubes with the stand,
(in a practial sense, it mostly poses a risk to the paint, you're likely
to scratch the clear coat if the bike is yanked left or right)....
But i think it's easy to go overboard getting out the pitchforks and
torches when you see a bike 'hanging' in a stand by the seat tube.

I own a $6,000 Parlee Z-1 frame that i have no qualms whatsoever
about placing in a stand by the seat tube. I'm not talking about
crushing it with high clamping force, but enough to hold it there.

I'm quite sure the front derailleur clamped to my seat tube is
exerting a heck of a lot more force on the tube than a rag wrapped
around the frame in the stand. It can be mostly friction holding
a frame by the tube. So personally, i'm not that freaked out by it
if the mechanic actually knows how to hold the frame in the stand.

-g

Ding ding. This. Not everything is black and white. Not everything has to be an absolute. Circumtsance folks, context people. Let's take a deep breath...:)

[oldpotatoe]

From my friend: "I clamp where I want to clamp."

Which shop so I am sure to never bring my bike to him. He's being lazy.

[jmoore]

What should the torque setting be for clamping the downtube? He said it felt like the same torque on the clamp as he'd use on a bottom bracket installation. Is that about right? Seems a tad bit excessive to me, but he's the pro.

[Javaman]

Forget the Litespeed! I want to see that fine looking yellow machine sitting on the right!:)

[jmoore]

Forget the Litespeed! I want to see that fine looking yellow machine sitting on the right!:)

Ask and ye' shall receive.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10959589_10153082508354596_7050520358332047342_n.j pg?oh=efdf1068e59db94888852400fa7c559e&oe=5554E368&__gda__=1431237502_0dcd9a8d9eeeee8bf500cb5b2d92b6a 7

[Javaman]

Thanks! :banana: Digging the colors!

[victoryfactory]

It's almost impossible to find a place to clamp many modern
bike frames.
A new idea is needed.

Anyone remember the old school technique of hooks suspended
from the ceiling?
One under the rear of the saddle and a double hooked one under the bars.
Certainly, you cant really wrench anything, but you can take wheels off and
do adjustments, clean and replace chains and cables.

I've always done my pedal removing, BB and headset yanking on the floor anyway. the torque it applies to any stand is way scary.

VF

[oldpotatoe]

It's almost impossible to find a place to clamp many modern
bike frames.
A new idea is needed.

Anyone remember the old school technique of hooks suspended
from the ceiling?
One under the rear of the saddle and a double hooked one under the bars.
Certainly, you cant really wrench anything, but you can take wheels off and
do adjustments, clean and replace chains and cables.

I've always done my pedal removing, BB and headset yanking on the floor anyway. the torque it applies to any stand is way scary.

VF

Many modern bike repair stands have clamps that can be used on the weird shape seat posts. BUT the Litespeed has just a seatpost.

Being in the trenches you see it all. Like a steel Serotta with a crimped, triangle shaped section of the seat tube just above bottle cage...from a repair stand clamp. Or a Litespeed Ghisallo, same, from a repair stand clamp.

As an owner, if a wrench of mine gooned up a frame or even gooned up the paint/finish, that cost me $ to repair/replace..that guy would be adios.


But this is the answer to your question. Really good piece of gear.

[Veloo]

That's bordering on the department store road bike with bars turned up 180 degrees.

[davidb]

What shop is this work being done at? There are a lot of interesting things going on in the picture.

[Aindreas]

I googled bad carbon bike clamping technique and that Litespeed photo showed up. I'm just here to make fun of this hack mechanic, too. :no:

[Aindreas]

Just Kidding. I'm actually the mechanic in question and person who took the photo. There seems to be some misunderstanding about what exactly is going on in the photo as regards my carbon bike clamping technique. And some of things my friend JMoore quoting me as saying seem to be misconstrued as showing me to be a poor mechanic with no regard for other peoples' expensive, beloved property.

In short, that was the part of the bike the customer preferred we clamp his bike. We did not want to move the seat post and wanted to avoid clamping the top tube due to possible damage (thankfully, there was not). There are other reasons when clamping a seat tube is the best option, such as frame shape or needing access to areas of the bike obscured by a clamp anywhere other than the seat tube.

As for that specific clamp job, it was carried out under the eye of a master mechanic with 20+ years working on carbon fiber bikes. Total, the employees at our shop have about 100 years of collective experience working on carbon bikes. A conservative estimate of the number of carbon bikes we have worked on since the early 1990s is somewhere north of 1,000 different bikes. To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever broken, cracked, or harmed a carbon bike, either through clamping technique or otherwise.

We take customer service very seriously, and are very proud of our work. It's an honor to have people go out of their way to brings their bikes to us for maintenance and repair. We have regulars who bring their bikes from all over the state, and a few who travel from other parts of the country. They trust us to fix anything, no matter how challenging, and to do so honestly and quickly. The customer who brought this Lightspeed into us had a recurring issue he was hoping we could solve, and I hope we have to his full satisfaction. Nor did he mind me clamping his bike in this manner. He was present when I did and gave clear instructions on how his bike was handled. Like every other customer of ours, his bike was handled with care the entire time it was in our custody, from the moment it came in the door to the when the customer picked it up.

Furthermore, I am the owner of a carbon bike myself, and would never do to a customer's bike what I wouldn't do to my own.

hth

[oldpotatoe]

Just Kidding. I'm actually the mechanic in question and person who took the photo. There seems to be some misunderstanding about what exactly is going on in the photo as regards my carbon bike clamping technique. And some of things my friend JMoore quoting me as saying seem to be misconstrued as showing me to be a poor mechanic with no regard for other peoples' expensive, beloved property.

In short, that was the part of the bike the customer preferred we clamp his bike. We did not want to move the seat post and wanted to avoid clamping the top tube due to possible damage (thankfully, there was not). There are other reasons when clamping a seat tube is the best option, such as frame shape or needing access to areas of the bike obscured by a clamp anywhere other than the seat tube.

As for that specific clamp job, it was carried out under the eye of a master mechanic with 20+ years working on carbon fiber bikes. Total, the employees at our shop have about 100 years of collective experience working on carbon bikes. A conservative estimate of the number of carbon bikes we have worked on since the early 1990s is somewhere north of 1,000 different bikes. To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever broken, cracked, or harmed a carbon bike, either through clamping technique or otherwise.

We take customer service very seriously, and are very proud of our work. It's an honor to have people go out of their way to brings their bikes to us for maintenance and repair. We have regulars who bring their bikes from all over the state, and a few who travel from other parts of the country. They trust us to fix anything, no matter how challenging, and to do so honestly and quickly. The customer who brought this Lightspeed into us had a recurring issue he was hoping we could solve, and I hope we have to his full satisfaction. Nor did he mind me clamping his bike in this manner. He was present when I did and gave clear instructions on how his bike was handled. Like every other customer of ours, his bike was handled with care the entire time it was in our custody, from the moment it came in the door to the when the customer picked it up.

Furthermore, I am the owner of a carbon bike myself, and would never do to a customer's bike what I wouldn't do to my own.

hth

?
Not trying to argue but why did the customer wish his carbon frame clamped on the seat tube? Just asking. Seems from the pic, that moving all the stuff from under the saddle and you would have access to the seatpost.

[Dead Man]

Just Kidding. I'm actually the mechanic in question and person who took the photo. There seems to be some misunderstanding about what exactly is going on in the photo as regards my carbon bike clamping technique. And some of things my friend JMoore quoting me as saying seem to be misconstrued as showing me to be a poor mechanic with no regard for other peoples' expensive, beloved property.

In short, that was the part of the bike the customer preferred we clamp his bike. We did not want to move the seat post and wanted to avoid clamping the top tube due to possible damage (thankfully, there was not). There are other reasons when clamping a seat tube is the best option, such as frame shape or needing access to areas of the bike obscured by a clamp anywhere other than the seat tube.

As for that specific clamp job, it was carried out under the eye of a master mechanic with 20+ years working on carbon fiber bikes. Total, the employees at our shop have about 100 years of collective experience working on carbon bikes. A conservative estimate of the number of carbon bikes we have worked on since the early 1990s is somewhere north of 1,000 different bikes. To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever broken, cracked, or harmed a carbon bike, either through clamping technique or otherwise.

We take customer service very seriously, and are very proud of our work. It's an honor to have people go out of their way to brings their bikes to us for maintenance and repair. We have regulars who bring their bikes from all over the state, and a few who travel from other parts of the country. They trust us to fix anything, no matter how challenging, and to do so honestly and quickly. The customer who brought this Lightspeed into us had a recurring issue he was hoping we could solve, and I hope we have to his full satisfaction. Nor did he mind me clamping his bike in this manner. He was present when I did and gave clear instructions on how his bike was handled. Like every other customer of ours, his bike was handled with care the entire time it was in our custody, from the moment it came in the door to the when the customer picked it up.

Furthermore, I am the owner of a carbon bike myself, and would never do to a customer's bike what I wouldn't do to my own.

hth

Does the client know a picture of his bike taken in your work stand is being gawked at on the internet? Could obstruct that "full satisfaction" part... just sayin'. Hope he's not a member here.

[nelson]

Saw this device at Interbike for holding carbon frames/bikes in a repair stand. Looks like a great solution. They seriously missed their kickstarter funding, but it appears it's available anyway. http://hirobel.com/shop/carbon-frame-clamp/

[malcolm]

Just Kidding. I'm actually the mechanic in question and person who took the photo. There seems to be some misunderstanding about what exactly is going on in the photo as regards my carbon bike clamping technique. And some of things my friend JMoore quoting me as saying seem to be misconstrued as showing me to be a poor mechanic with no regard for other peoples' expensive, beloved property.

In short, that was the part of the bike the customer preferred we clamp his bike. We did not want to move the seat post and wanted to avoid clamping the top tube due to possible damage (thankfully, there was not). There are other reasons when clamping a seat tube is the best option, such as frame shape or needing access to areas of the bike obscured by a clamp anywhere other than the seat tube.

As for that specific clamp job, it was carried out under the eye of a master mechanic with 20+ years working on carbon fiber bikes. Total, the employees at our shop have about 100 years of collective experience working on carbon bikes. A conservative estimate of the number of carbon bikes we have worked on since the early 1990s is somewhere north of 1,000 different bikes. To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever broken, cracked, or harmed a carbon bike, either through clamping technique or otherwise.

We take customer service very seriously, and are very proud of our work. It's an honor to have people go out of their way to brings their bikes to us for maintenance and repair. We have regulars who bring their bikes from all over the state, and a few who travel from other parts of the country. They trust us to fix anything, no matter how challenging, and to do so honestly and quickly. The customer who brought this Lightspeed into us had a recurring issue he was hoping we could solve, and I hope we have to his full satisfaction. Nor did he mind me clamping his bike in this manner. He was present when I did and gave clear instructions on how his bike was handled. Like every other customer of ours, his bike was handled with care the entire time it was in our custody, from the moment it came in the door to the when the customer picked it up.

Furthermore, I am the owner of a carbon bike myself, and would never do to a customer's bike what I wouldn't do to my own.

hth

Overall we are a welcoming friendly group here with tons of knowledge, myself excluded. We love to point out peoples screw up ad nauseam. Once you have 8 posts or more you are welcome to join in the piling on.

Really this is a great place, welcome and hope you hang around.

[Michael Maddox]

Okay...I keep looking and looking at this, and I just can't tell. (Granted, I've got central serous retinopathy in my left eye and can't see for ····, right now.)

The big yellow thing on the seat post...is that COVERING the saddle, or is that some sort of wacky saddle?

[victoryfactory]

Saw this device at Interbike for holding carbon frames/bikes in a repair stand. Looks like a great solution. They seriously missed their kickstarter funding, but it appears it's available anyway. http://hirobel.com/shop/carbon-frame-clamp/

Well, there ya go.
Looks like a good solution

[Dead Man]

Let me also just add - as someone who has worked in and around construction for 15 years, there are a lot of highly "experienced" people doing stuff wrong, even in a regulated/standardized industry like construction. You get into the specialty trades, where there's really no oversight at all and its drastically worse.
the difference between guys doing things right and doing things wrong comes down to personal initiative and continuing education, and relatively few tradesmen actually take the initiative to further their education. Generally, guys accept their training as the superior method of doing things (because the journeyman who taught them also probably laced every lesson with "this is the only right way, everyone else does it wrong" sentiments), and turn their noses up at different (to include better) methods out of willful laziness or, worse, pride. And those professing the most pride in their workmanship also tend to be the ones who hold onto wrong methods the hardest, unfortunately. They take more pride in their own belief of superiority than actually producing a superior products, so they're not going to let anyone else (who are almost assuredly inferior) show them anything.

Time in counts, sure.. But it's not what makes a craftsman.

[davidb]

Anyone can be a professional bicycle mechanic. There is no licensing, testing or education requirements or anything. Just claim you are a "Professional". Everyone will state we never broke a frame...till well we just broke a frame. If the goal is to provide customer service. Then an opportunity to educate the customer was missed. Regarding the care and service of the frame. To publicly shame a customers bicycle setup does not seem to be a "professional" bicycle mechanic type behavior. As mentioned above removal of the saddle bag and reflector/light would allow access to the seat post. The IBD struggles to exist today. A posting like this only serves to add to the struggle. As posted above you are never to smart to learn more about your trade. It is "ok" to realize there are better ways to do things. Before you attack my post please think about what you are doing and consider removing the image and original post. The men and women who work in the cycling industry try to do the best everyday. Sometimes doing ones best is hard realization that you have made an error. The good thing is sometimes errors can be corrected.

[CaliFly]

I appreciate the mechanic coming on here to defend himself in a purely non-threatened/non-threatening manner. The Paceline family just got a little bigger...hopefully. It must be a slow week to be arguing about clamp locations.

Time for a ride!

:banana:

[Dead Man]

I appreciate the mechanic coming on here to defend himself in a purely non-threatened/non-threatening manner. The Paceline family just got a little bigger...hopefully. It must be a slow week to be arguing about clamp locations.

Time for a ride!

:banana:

Pro team kit colors, helmets, and LeMond/doping too. It's definitely still February.

[jmoore]

Anyone can be a professional bicycle mechanic. There is no licensing, testing or education requirements or anything. Just claim you are a "Professional". Everyone will state we never broke a frame...till well we just broke a frame. If the goal is to provide customer service. Then an opportunity to educate the customer was missed. Regarding the care and service of the frame. To publicly shame a customers bicycle setup does not seem to be a "professional" bicycle mechanic type behavior. As mentioned above removal of the saddle bag and reflector/light would allow access to the seat post. The IBD struggles to exist today. A posting like this only serves to add to the struggle. As posted above you are never to smart to learn more about your trade. It is "ok" to realize there are better ways to do things. Before you attack my post please think about what you are doing and consider removing the image and original post. The men and women who work in the cycling industry try to do the best everyday. Sometimes doing ones best is hard realization that you have made an error. The good thing is sometimes errors can be corrected.


For the record, Aindreas did not start this thread. I did. So if anyone needs to be chastised, it's me. Aindreas took care of his customer, who, to my eye, has an odd setup, and the customer was very happy. That is really all that matters.


And no one mentioned the shop or the customers name. So I seriously doubt this is some earth shattering post that is going to shame the entire cycling industry.

[Aindreas]

Also, the bike was clamped very lightly I'm that position for about 10 minutes until the initial diagnostic was completed. I am very amused that a photo I took has launched such an impassioned discussion over basically nothing.

I would appreciate it if this photo stays here. I doubt the customer wants his bike mocked publicly.

That's all I have to say about the issue. Some of you are taking the photo way too seriously. If anyone still wishes to question my qualifications as a mechanic, they are welcome to pm me.

Thank you guys for the warm welcome, I hope to be helpful and add to the community. :)

[davidb]

Whomever allowed the picture to be taken, should have requested it not become public knowledge.

The mechanic in question states "I doubt the customer wants his bike mocked publicly"

Yet the images stays. I do not understand why you would continue to post the image.

To question your qualifications as mentioned above. There are no qualifications to being a bicycle mechanic. Anyone can be a "professional" bicycle mechanic.

To the original poster why? Why, did you post this image to begin with "interesting set up" was this sarcasm or mockery.


"Easy is the descent into Hell, for it is paved with good intentions." John Milton.

[Tony]

This thread is capable of harming friendships, work, why not let it die.

[Aindreas]

Better?

1697895228

[fuzzalow]

Gosh, I'm glad I got to this thread before the pictures got pulled. Then I see the last one with the clamp on the headtube and then I know I'm being played.

I think the mechanic got caught with his pants down on the bike clamped about the seattube and tied to BS his way outta what he'd done. C'mon fella, have some pride.

Sorry, there is no variance from one's own professional judgment on how to do things - it is all you have to build your credibility and reputation on and is not subject to negotiation or a customer's insistence to "clamp 'er' there".

I do my own wrenching but I would trust "Y" @ Conrad's NYC with anything bike and know that he would never do what was shown here.

As far as the bike setup for this bike, it is all good if done in service of the ride. If there is a desire to move away from this kind of setup then that desire for something more Pro-like is the first step on the path to enlightenment.

[Black Dog]

Well played sir. Welcome to the pace line. If you earn your living doing something that requires skill, training, and ongoing learning then I would call you a pro.

Better?

1697895228

[Aindreas]

I think the mechanic got caught with his pants down on the bike clamped about the seattube and tied to BS his way outta what he'd done. C'mon fella, have some pride.



You're just jealous I can get a bike to balance by the head tube in a stand. Haters gonna hate.

[oldpotatoe]

Better?

1697895228

Nice pic of Captain Kangaroo in the background, high right. Coincidence? I don't think so!!!!

But ya know, going back to 'interesting setup' part. I don't see anything that unusual. Big rotate of hbars in the pro peloton not that uncommon. Maybe big rotation with spacers above the stem but I've seen much more bizarre setups.

[Black Dog]

Nice pic of Captain Kangaroo in the background, high right. Coincidence? I don't think so!!!!

But ya know, going back to 'interesting setup' part. I don't see anything that unusual. Big rotate of hbars in the pro peloton not that uncommon. Maybe big rotation with spacers above the stem but I've seen much more bizarre setups.

Yes, back on topic. If the guy who owns the bike rides it and enjoys the act of riding a bike (you know, what a bike was actually made for) then so who cares how is has it set up. No matter how I set up my bikes I can not see the set up when I am out on the road enjoying being alive. There are too many people ridding properly (read: Pro look) set up bikes that are taking themselves to seriously to actually enjoy a bike ride.

[fuzzalow]

Yes, back on topic. If the guy who owns the bike rides it and enjoys the act of riding a bike (you know, what a bike was actually made for) then so who cares how is has it set up. No matter how I set up my bikes I can not see the set up when I am out on the road enjoying being alive. There are too many people ridding properly (read: Pro look) set up bikes that are taking themselves to seriously to actually enjoy a bike ride.

Well, I take that post as a dig at me 'cos of the reference to "pro look". You don't know anything about to what degree I enjoy cycling. You don't know anything about whether or not I take myself "seriously", whatever that might mean to you. You just disagree.

Re: Mechanic Responses - When somebody takes money and calls himself a professional, there is every reason to be stringent in the view of service expected and provided by such a person. By your response, I'd guess your view of my response was strident - big difference in the meaning and thoughts behind those two words.

Those jokes and posted pictures of the bikes are not funny, they are embarrassing. As a professional, it is demeaning to mock your own profession with pictures showing incompetence & contempt like that, even in jest. As such, a mechanic that brings that level of disregard into a forum of this quality does not add to a level with the quality that most have come to appreciate as commonplace here.

Re: Dig at Pro Look - I do know that my response to the "mechanic" is not the same as my view of how the customer setup his bike and is not to be confused or conflated. Which you have apparently confused and conflated - in my posts separate paragraphs usually denote segmented ideas or separate trains of thought, capish? RIF.

All the above said as completely dispassionate. I don't get your undercurrent of animosity on what I post. But that's your perogative and it is fine with me as you insist.

[Aindreas]

As for the fit, the guy seemed very happy with it and said it took at lot of attempts to get it right. We didn't press the issue and hope our work solved his ongoing shifting problem.

But the guy who owns the bike being held up by the head tube is not impressed with my lack of maturity and thinks I should grow up already.

[93legendti]

...

But the guy who owns the bike being held up by the head tube is not impressed with my lack of maturity and thinks I should grow up already.

Cuz it's your bike..;)

[Aindreas]

Cuz it's your bike..;)

My boss watched me pose my bike like that and just his shook his head.

[93legendti]

My boss watched me pose my bike like that and just his shook his head.

Would have gotten laughs in our shop...all business, but we can take a joke...:)

[Tony]

My boss watched me pose my bike like that and just his shook his head.

Sounds like you enjoy being a bicycle mechanic. There is a lot one can learn here on this forum, not just bikes.

It's okay recognize good advise, lots of knowledgeable folks here.
Hope you stick around Aindreas.

[Cicli]

My boss watched me pose my bike like that and just his shook his head.

Sorry for the hack comment. You have a good attitude. Stick around, this place is better than anywhere else on the Internet.

[r_mutt]

Cheers to Aindreas who took on all sorts of personal attacks only to reply with a smile.

[VaughnA]

I can say with conviction that Andreas is a great mechanic and human being. He knows his way around a bike, done and done. I'd trust him with my bike at any time, any place.

Now if I had a daughter it would be a different matter.

[Aindreas]

I can say with conviction that Andreas is a great mechanic and human being. He knows his way around a bike, done and done. I'd trust him with my bike at any time, any place.

Now if I had a daughter it would be a different matter.

Thanks, buddy.

And I would never clamp your daughter.

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/le-miiverse-resource/images/f/fa/Deal_With_It..gif/revision/latest?cb=20141015042646

[Black Dog]

Whoa whoa fuzzalow. That was not a dig at you in any way. I was not responding to anything you said in particular or in general, at all. Just making an observation that we all should not judge based on the set up of a bike and the how I feel that enjoying ridding a bike, in any capacity, is more important than looking like some facsimile of a "serious/pro" rider. More of a commentary of how I feel it is sad when I see people trying to emulate some notion of cycling so much that they forget that they are riding a bike, and that it can actually be fun. No passive aggressive BS here. If you thought I was firing across your bow, I am sorry for that.

Edit: Seeking to eliminate my confusion in regards to your comment I re-read all your posts in this thread and I just read your lines about the path to enlightenment for the 1st time. Ok, I can see where you were thinking that it was a dig, I actually did not read that before I posted my comments. I can also see that you were probably saying that with tongue firmly planted in cheek. Not all subtext is lost on me. :)

Well, I take that post as a dig at me 'cos of the reference to "pro look". You don't know anything about to what degree I enjoy cycling. You don't know anything about whether or not I take myself "seriously", whatever that might mean to you. You just disagree.

Re: Mechanic Responses - When somebody takes money and calls himself a professional, there is every reason to be stringent in the view of service expected and provided by such a person. By your response, I'd guess your view of my response was strident - big difference in the meaning and thoughts behind those two words.

Those jokes and posted pictures of the bikes are not funny, they are embarrassing. As a professional, it is demeaning to mock your own profession with pictures showing incompetence & contempt like that, even in jest. As such, a mechanic that brings that level of disregard into a forum of this quality does not add to a level with the quality that most have come to appreciate as commonplace here.

Re: Dig at Pro Look - I do know that my response to the "mechanic" is not the same as my view of how the customer setup his bike and is not to be confused or conflated. Which you have apparently confused and conflated - in my posts separate paragraphs usually denote segmented ideas or separate trains of thought, capish? RIF.

All the above said as completely dispassionate. I don't get your undercurrent of animosity on what I post. But that's your perogative and it is fine with me as you insist.

[victoryfactory]

This has been an interesting read.
As someone who has spent a professional lifetime working with tools I think the
message "don't try this at home" applies.
I have seen and used many non approved methods to get things done
that I'd never suggest for an inexperienced person.
What if the wrench made that clamping decision based on experience?
What if he was aware of the weight and force he'd be dealing with in
this particular case?
Maybe the correct reaction to the initial photo could have been:
I hope that guy knew what he was doing?
It is certainly not textbook and could be disastrous if copied by a
beginner.

VF

[fuzzalow]

Whoa whoa fuzzalow. That was not a dig at you in any way. I was not responding to anything you said in particular or in general, at all. Just making an observation that we all should not judge based on the set up of a bike and the how I feel that enjoying ridding a bike, in any capacity, is more important than looking like some facsimile of a "serious/pro" rider. More of a commentary of how I feel it is sad when I see people trying to emulate some notion of cycling so much that they forget that they are riding a bike, and that it can actually be fun. No passive aggressive BS here. If you thought I was firing across your bow, I am sorry for that.

Edit: Seeking to eliminate my confusion in regards to your comment I re-read all your posts in this thread and I just read your lines about the path to enlightenment for the 1st time. Ok, I can see where you were thinking that it was a dig, I actually did not read that before I posted my comments. I can also see that you were probably saying that with tongue firmly planted in cheek. Not all subtext is lost on me. :)

OK, sorry for my misunderstanding on this also.

It is true that I encourage riders to ride in the best way they know how, correct and in balance for their fit & position. But I do not take digs at somebody's setup because they do not "ride Pro" - never a "stem too short" or "faster backwards" comment with a self-satisfied smug as if knowing some kinda secret or possessing a studly amount of fitness in riding 10cm+ drop. And I always disliked the conversations in those threads that did this - just as if a bunch a guys talkin' amongst themselves, patting themselves on the back bragging about something they think lesser riders can't do.

I don't make fun of riders that ride non-Pro setups. Not everybody is into it to care or to wanna know. However if they are, I show them how to do it. Anyone can "ride Pro". I share the knowledge, developing the skill is then up to them.

So there lies my rather hypersensitive reaction to what you wrote. All a misunderstanding.

FWIW, anytime I clamp a frame lightly on the seattube, like as claimed by "mechanic", the clamp meets up with the frame at the junction of the top part of the seat tube cluster so it hangs kinda on the toptube. This is done so the clamp is tight enough to hold but not needed to be tight enough to grip - the frame just hangs there by gravity with the clamp up in the corner of the frame. Yeah, we've all done this but even doing this requires some sense which is not evident in the OP photo.

@ "mechanic": tell me again how good you are, tell me again how you blame the customer when you are not. Comment not personal, strictly business.

"mechanic" might be a nice guy, considers himself "le mec" and a pretty funny guy. Hot diggidy dog. I'm not a hater and I welcome you here - just keep your expert mechanic advice to yourself.

[93legendti]

As for the fit, the guy seemed very happy with it and said it took at lot of attempts to get it right. We didn't press the issue and hope our work solved his ongoing shifting problem.

But the guy who owns the bike being held up by the head tube is not impressed with my lack of maturity and thinks I should grow up already.

Welcome to the forum. Always nice to have people who don't take themselves too seriously.

[fuzzalow]

Welcome to the forum. Always nice to have people who don't take themselves too seriously.

Aw c'mon 93legendti, don't be so mealy mouthed about what you really think. Gimme both barrels, I can handle your opinion, no personal invectives taken! If you can find a glimmer of comedy to be made of what I say, take the shot! I will commend your cleverness I can promise you.

It is not that I take myself too seriously, it is that I don't take you too seriously.

[fogrider]

Just Kidding. I'm actually the mechanic in question and person who took the photo. There seems to be some misunderstanding about what exactly is going on in the photo as regards my carbon bike clamping technique. And some of things my friend JMoore quoting me as saying seem to be misconstrued as showing me to be a poor mechanic with no regard for other peoples' expensive, beloved property.

In short, that was the part of the bike the customer preferred we clamp his bike. We did not want to move the seat post and wanted to avoid clamping the top tube due to possible damage (thankfully, there was not). There are other reasons when clamping a seat tube is the best option, such as frame shape or needing access to areas of the bike obscured by a clamp anywhere other than the seat tube.

As for that specific clamp job, it was carried out under the eye of a master mechanic with 20+ years working on carbon fiber bikes. Total, the employees at our shop have about 100 years of collective experience working on carbon bikes. A conservative estimate of the number of carbon bikes we have worked on since the early 1990s is somewhere north of 1,000 different bikes. To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever broken, cracked, or harmed a carbon bike, either through clamping technique or otherwise.

We take customer service very seriously, and are very proud of our work. It's an honor to have people go out of their way to brings their bikes to us for maintenance and repair. We have regulars who bring their bikes from all over the state, and a few who travel from other parts of the country. They trust us to fix anything, no matter how challenging, and to do so honestly and quickly. The customer who brought this Lightspeed into us had a recurring issue he was hoping we could solve, and I hope we have to his full satisfaction. Nor did he mind me clamping his bike in this manner. He was present when I did and gave clear instructions on how his bike was handled. Like every other customer of ours, his bike was handled with care the entire time it was in our custody, from the moment it came in the door to the when the customer picked it up.

Furthermore, I am the owner of a carbon bike myself, and would never do to a customer's bike what I wouldn't do to my own.

hth
Just because the customer prefers to have the bike clamped at the seattube does not make it a good thing to do. A buddy had his steel bike clamped that way and the paint job was messed up! and just because a bunch of experienced guys think something is right still doesn't make it right. as old potato has pointed out, there are other options...I'm just saying.