Serotta or Seven?

[H1449-6]

I am in the market for a Ti road bike. I am looking for a "century" bike as opposed to a racerboy bike.

I guess I don't expect to get unbiased advice on this board :D , but there is a lot of high-end road bike wisdom here.

I hate to start every paragraph with "I," but I need a 63-64 with about a 60 top tube. I weigh about 220 now, with a fighting weight closer to 190, so I am looking for a beefy ride, fairly stiff at the BB but vertically compliant.

So: any advice on how to break the tie between Serotta and Seven? Seven can deliver a frame in about 6 weeks. I don't know what the wait for a Serotta would be. Time is NOT of the essence, but I really don't want to wait a year.

Any advice?

Mike

PS. I tried to search for "Seven" but the search engine won't let me as it's too common a term.

PPS. Bigman, the TT on your Hors Cat is just a little too short.

[e-RICHIE]

comparing the two?
get a serotta -
it's a company with nearly 4 times the experience and
it's a "no-contest" when it come to innovative design wrt
making road bicycles for road cyclists.

[pdxmech13]

nuff said...........

[H1449-6]

You know that Seven is many of the original Merlin guys, right? Edit to add: when I think Ti, I think Merlin. YMMV.

[Len J]

You know that Seven is many of the original Merlin guys, right?


he knows that.

What he said!

Start with a really good fitter, make sure it makes sense to you, and have fun.

Len

[pdxmech13]

and your point is.........what ?

[H1449-6]

Thank you for your comment.

[rnhood]

Either can make a very good Ti bike, as will Spectrum Cycles.

[H1449-6]

Anyone know if there's a meaningful difference in the price of a Serotta Ti frame as opposed to a Seven frame? Seven is about $3000 for butted Ti (the Axiom) and $2200 for straight-guage Ti (Alaris). Frame only. If there's a price list on the Serotta site, I haven't found it.

[Len J]

Anyone know if there's a meaningful difference in the price of a Serotta Ti frame as opposed to a Seven frame? Seven is about $3000 for butted Ti (the Axiom) and $2200 for straight-guage Ti (Alaris). Frame only. If there's a price list on the Serotta site, I haven't found it.

Go to the individual models on the site.....Legend & Concours are the 2 frames you want to compare......scroll down on the individual model page & you'll see a suggested price. Make sure you take into account paint costs with seven (it used to be an upcharge) and the cost of the forks.

Len

[H1449-6]

Thanks Len and e-richie.

I appreciate the comments and value your guidance and opinions.

[jerk]

coke or that knock off walgreen stuff?

it's your call but 90% of dentists prefer coke.

jerk

[Ahneida Ride]

I have a 64/60 Legend in the Rapid Tour Geometry.
For long hauls and comfort this can't be beat.

Interview your fitter. If the bars are not close to seat level, find
another fitter.

Your fitter should mention the Rapid Tour geometry. If not, find another
fitter.

I do believe that you have a real high probability of success with a Serotta.
They have 30+ years experience.

Serotta shoud be in your top two list.

Go Concours to save a few fiat Federal Reserve Notes.

[dirtdigger88]

oversize tubes-

for bigger bikes I think this gives Serotta the nod hands down-

Jason

[jerk]

[QUOTE=Ahneida Ride]I have a 64/60 Legend in the Rapid Tour Geometry.
For long hauls and comfort this can't be beat.

Interview your fitter. If the bars are not close to seat level, find
another fitter.

QUOTE]

you have a 64cm frame and your handlebars are close to seat level? maybe you should see a doctor. (not doctor bruylandts; he'll put your bars all low and get you all on some new fangled beta blocker cut with a morning after pill and some black sheep's blood and you still won't be able to go faster than 18mph because your handlebars are too high.)

jerk

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . My understanding is that Vandermark was indeed at Merlin, but that when Lightspeed bought Merlin, they locked up the factory, told the employees they could move to Tennessee if they wanted to keep working for Merlin, so many of the Merlin crew went across town and now work for Indy Fab making their Ti bikes.

Did I hear this wrong?

On the thread subject, when I was shopping, the fit and finish of Serotta just flat blew Seven away. It was like a Rolex compared to a bare Ti creation that looked like it had just rolled out of a Russian tank factory.

BBD

[e-RICHIE]

Serotta shoud be in your top two list.




it is! (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=192026&postcount=1)

[jerk]

oversize tubes-

for bigger bikes I think this gives Serotta the nod hands down-

Jason


the jerk thinks the fact that seven has never designed nor supplied a proper racing bicycle should give serotta the nod. serotta could build the bike out of toothpicks and it'd be better than whatever mad painful conconction seven comes up with. race a bike. better yet,supply bikes to elite racers and learn what the hell you are doing before you go around claiming any knowledge about proper bicycle design. the day a seven wins a po-dunk kermesse is the day the jerk bites his tonque and says..........it's not about the bike; its about the doctor; paging doctor bruylandts.

jerk

[H1449-6]

Interview your fitter. If the bars are not close to seat level, find another fitter.

Your fitter should mention the Rapid Tour geometry. If not, find another
fitter.


This is exactly the kind of fit I am looking for (bars close to seat height). On my current ride (Landshark bought eight years ago or so) I am 3.5 inches or so below saddle height. Age has caught up with me and I am now looking for the gentler ride of a more upright stance and easier handling bike.

What should I know about the Rapid Tour geometry? If you could point me to the relevant page on the site that would be great.

[dirtdigger88]

agree jerk-

I looked at a seven when I got my legend- I dont think sevens are really bad bikes- but I just dont think they are the same league as Serotta-

besides the local seven dealer in my town is a jack-off- :D

though I will say that I emailed seven to tell them that- I included my phone number in the email- and seven did call me to see what happed

I told them I bought a Serotta- thats what

Jason

[H1449-6]

Complicating the issue somewhat is the fact that there's no Serotta dealer in my town, in my state, or in any convenient location in an adjoining state.

I can and will travel to get fit but that complicates matters somewhat. Now I'm dealing with an unknown quantity (the dealer that fits me) instead of my friendly local shop, which knows what it's doing but isn't a Serotta dealer.

I suppose I can ask Serotta if they'll deal with this shop.

Edit to add: Seven has already advised that they're happy to deal with this shop. They've dealt with this shop before.

[manet]

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/oct04/downeast/70BD7304tn.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cyclingnews.com/cross.php%3Fid%3Dcross/2004/oct04/downeast04&h=209&w=200&sz=11&tbnid=pqaQFvlvUIKcXM:&tbnh=100&tbnw=95&hl=en&start=10&prev=/images%3Fq%3DMary%2BMcConneloug%26svnum%3D10%26hl% 3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG

[H1449-6]

it is! (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=192026&postcount=1)

[Ed McMahon] You are correct, sir! [/Ed McMahon]

Now the challenge is how I go about buying one. See my post above.

[mgm777]

I have a Legend outfitted with DA9 and an Seven Axiom with DA10. Both have the same geos and are the same size 55.5 TT. Both also have the same saddle, pedal, and cockpit setups. I run Velomax Orion IIs on the Seven and a pair of hand build DTswiss w/ White Ind. Hubs on the Legend. Frankly, the Seven has a smoother ride and is plenty stiff. The Legend is a tad bit heavier and a rougher ride. My Seven weighs 16.5 lbs w/ pedals and the Legend is 17.3 lbs. I ride about 5K miles/year and tend to favor the Seven slightly. It just feels like it rides smoother, climbs better, and accelerates faster. I weigh about 165 and tend to ride hard and fast. Bottom Line - both are great bikes. Don't let others' opinions about lack of racing heritage affect your purchase decision. Welds, build quality, fit and finish are excellent with both bikes. Both companies are fully capable of building you a perfectly fitted bike that rides exactly how you want it to. Don't for a moment think the Seven is a lesser rig. It is not.

[Michael Katz]

e-richie and the Jerk have it right. I owned a custom Axiom Ti. I presently own a Serotta and a Spectrum. All were designed based on the same articulated desired handling and ride characteristics. My Seven did not handle the way I wanted. I felt like I was sitting on top of the bike instead of being immersed in the cockpit (kind of like sitting in an SUV as opposed to sitting in a sports car). It also would not initiate curves and turns as quickly as I wanted - almost like there was a slight degree of understeer. I discovered that the specs of the frame were off from the intended specs and to their credit, Seven replaced the frame. During the process, I discussed with Seven my concerns about the handling and reiterated what I wanted. The second frame, while on spec, had the same handling characteristics.

In contrast, both my Spectrum and Serotta are superb handling bikes. See other posts under my name for a more detailed description. My conclusion is that if left to their own devices in determining frame geometry, Seven has a particular "design signature" that colors the way their bikes handle. Many people own and love their Sevens. My experience, however, is that if you want sharp but neutral, responsive but stable handling, if you want to feel like you are riding a performance machine (that also has superb fit and comfort), Seven is simply not in the same league as Serotta or Spectrum. Others may disagree, but that is my experience under a set of circumstances where Seven had 2 opportunities to "hit the mark".

[Serpico]

...

besides the local seven dealer in my town is a jack-off





I was set on a seven, but got a serotta for this reason--I know who you're talking about.

I thought serotta was an "old guy bike" (no disrespect to anyone, but people kept telling me this before I ordered mine). The more I researched and talked with people it became obvious that serotta was the place to go.

I think people assume that Vandermark brings some kind of 'heritage' to the seven name (wrt his history with Merlin), but when you look at the frames compared with Serotta or Merlin it is obvious his stuff is still, err "evolving" (***, those dropouts--and that carb frame they have this year-bleh)

it came down to moots or serotta for me and the lbs guy I like was a serotta dealer--if he'd have been a moots dealer I'd have a moots right now.

[Serpico]

Complicating the issue somewhat is the fact that there's no Serotta dealer in my town, in my state, or in any convenient location in an adjoining state.


there's two big shops carrying serotta where I live, I chose to drive 3 hours (6 roundtrip) out of town to deal with the guy I got along with best. gotta figure the amount of saddle time you're gonna spend over the next several years, vs driving out of state (whatever)


either way, good luck with whichever frame company you go with

[Brons2]

This is exactly the kind of fit I am looking for (bars close to seat height). On my current ride (Landshark bought eight years ago or so) I am 3.5 inches or so below saddle height. Age has caught up with me and I am now looking for the gentler ride of a more upright stance and easier handling bike.

You should see if Grant will build you a lugged titanium Rivendell ;)

[The Spider]

. . . My understanding is that Vandermark was indeed at Merlin, but that when Lightspeed bought Merlin, they locked up the factory, told the employees they could move to Tennessee if they wanted to keep working for Merlin, so many of the Merlin crew went across town and now work for Indy Fab making their Ti bikes.

Did I hear this wrong?

BBD

Correct, top points for the man in the zebra striped racing suit!

That's how IF went from no ti to full ti very quickly!

[Ray]

Not being a Serotta owner (or loyalist, althought I REALLY appreciate their providing this forum), I'd also recommend Serotta. Based SOLEY on opinions and satisfaction levels of folks I've know with either or both. I've met a few Serotta owners who weren't thrilled with their bikes, generally due to the fitter it seemed. Most, otoh, have been ecstatic about their bikes. I can't tell you how many Seven riders I've run into on local rides who generally like their bikes but who feel the handling is too quick for what they wanted and the stability just isn't there. Now this very well may be because most of these folks bought from the same local Seven dealer and it could be a problem with the fitter there and not the company. But it's such a uniform reaction I gotta wonder. I've seen a fair number of the same sorts of reactions in variious on-line locations too.

But, hey, if you think Merlin when you think ti, you gotta think about TK at Spectrum. He designs all of the Merlins and Spectrum is his custom line. I've *NEVER* heard of anyone who wasn't satisfied with his Spectrum (Sachs either, but you're talking ti) and there's only ONE fitter, so there's no question of QC there. I'm biased though - I own a ti Spectrum and have stopped thinking about other bikes since I got it.

-Ray

[Climb01742]

every bike begins with the design. before asking "which builder", maybe ask "which fitter or designer"? whether it's a serotta or seven or a moots or whatever, if the design is whack, what does it matter how nice the welds are? as serpico said, given how much time you'll (hopefully) spend in the saddle of your new bike, a few hours of travel time to find a great fitter would be a good investment.

[stevep]

if you are a big guy. be sure to get the db frame. tubes are larger diameter and stiffer.
my vote- serotta ( ends in a vowel, must be made in italy )

[victoryfactory]

Climb is right!

It's about the fit/design philosophy/experience

Any of the custom makers mentioned on this thread can weld nicely,
any of their work is great, but the real thing you should focus on is
fitting, and the experiece to take your input and the fitter's measurments
and interpret that correctly into your custom bike.
In my experience, Serotta can do that.

Where are you located?

VF

[H1449-6]

I'm in Little Rock, AR. No Serotta dealer here; the closest is a five hour drive. I imagine I could drive to the Dallas area but if I have to travel I'd rather just go to the Serotta factory and get fitted there.

I'm going to email to see if that's possible and I'll update this thread with the response.

[sc53]

Hi H1449 etc., if you're going to fly, catch a flight into DC and let Smiley fit you. He knows all about the Rapid Tour geometry and is very likeable to boot! I'd even venture to say he'd pick you up at the airport.

[stevep]

i can never figure out the obscure pronunciations of the jerk. what is he trying to say here? anyone? anyone?

the jerk thinks the fact that seven has never designed nor supplied a proper racing bicycle should give serotta the nod. serotta could build the bike out of toothpicks and it'd be better than whatever mad painful conconction seven comes up with. race a bike. better yet,supply bikes to elite racers and learn what the hell you are doing before you go around claiming any knowledge about proper bicycle design. the day a seven wins a po-dunk kermesse is the day the jerk bites his tonque and says..........it's not about the bike; its about the doctor; paging doctor bruylandts.

jerk

[Argos]

You know that Seven is many of the original Merlin guys, right? Edit to add: when I think Ti, I think Merlin. YMMV.


You know that Serotta is many of the original Serotta guys, right? Edit to add: when I think Ti, I think Serotta. YMMV.

[e-RICHIE]

i can never figure out the obscure pronunciations of the jerk. what is he trying to say here? anyone? anyone?


friends don't let friends drive bostondrunk

[stevep]

friends don't let friends drive bostondrunk


take out the 45mm of spacers and chuck a 14 cm stem on that baby!
you are there...and lose the anatomic bars

[manet]

friends don't let friends drive bostondrunk

dats how the cows got home

[Grant McLean]

For the record... it's Rob Vandermark who is the designer at Seven, and was
orignially at Merlin.

I had an Axiom Ti built in 2002, and I just gave them a blue print of the geo
that I wanted, and exact location of all braze-ons, as they seem clueless
at getting these details "right" on their own. I can't stand the seat tube
water bottle mounts that straddle the front derailleur.

Anyway, the frame arrived, and the head tube was 1cm too short from the
spec list. Ok, so what happened? The laminated signoff card attached to the
frame said "11cm headtube" and had some intials beside it. My ruler said 10cm,
what gives? At first they told me I was measureing wrong! Ahhhh, no.

They were going to rework the frame with a new headtube, I said no way.
So I changed a couple of things so they would need to build me a new frame
from scratch. The whole process took way longer than the estimate. When
I ordered the frame in January, they said 3 weeks, it took about 7, and then
the "few days" to get the fixed frame pushed through turned into another
4 weeks.

But all of that I could forget about, even forgive, but in the end I wasn't
super pleased with the tubeset. The front triangle was way whippy compared
to what my legend ti is like. Seven gave me the blah blah blah about their
"rating" numbers. This goes back to the other posts about ordering a custom,
having your expections be "on the same page" as who you're talking to.
I was not on the same page as the Seven folks. My contact there was
inexperienced, elusive, slow to return calls/emails, not forthcoming with
answers, and generally left me with the feeling that I shouldn't be dealing with
him.

All that aside, the craftsmanship on Seven bikes is second to none. I think
their welds are beautiful industrial art, and the machining of the faces and
threads were immaculate, far above my Serotta. But it doesn't really mean
jack if the bike doesn't ride great.

YMMV

-g

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . after reading all these comments that maybe, just maybe what the difference comes down to is the experience and ability to read the context of each inidividual rider's history and abilities that is posessed by a HUMAN fitter, rather than filling out any kind of questionnaire or form. I have never gone through this with Seven, but it's my understanding that's how they do it--you answer written questions and give preferences in writing rather than climbing on a real adjustable bike and having a human being with experience talk with you and watch you as you really pedal.

Of course, this brings personalities into the equation, and you can see from some of the other messages onthis thread that sometimes personalities get in the way of an effective fitting experience, no matter what the maker.

But in general I suspect that this is the real difference between the two companies and it's one of the main reasons I went with Seotta besides jewel-like fit and finish. I rode both a Legend and an Axiom during my shopping experience, but when we got to the fitting process, the fit bike said "Serotta" on it, NOT "Seven." The fitter had been trained by Serotta, NOT Seven. This convinced me--Ben knows what he is doing.

I also think that the approach adopted by Seven of survey questions and written measurements may have as much to do with a desire to establish themselves in the market more quickly as it does with a desire to get a truly perfect fit. The fit system of trained fitters used by Serotta really does work, but it depends on a network that has taken years to establish with well-trained fitters who hve a breadth of experience. Seven had to start out from scratch and build their own network of trained fitters, and they had to come up with the best system they could to try and get successful fit as they build that network.

But bottom line to me is seek out a Serotta trained fit expert like Smiley or Paul Levine if you want to truly do it right and you are spending $7-10k for a bike that you want to be an investment with a lasting positive return. Knowing Smiley, I can't think of anyone I'd rather have fit my next bike.

BBD

[davids]

I purchased a used Steel Axiom (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=1993) as my first "high end" road bike. It's designed to be slightly on the fast side of neutral as far as handling, and less vertically compliant than their 'signature' models. It hits that mark as far as handling - quick and reactive without being twitchy - and was (at the time I bought it) also the most comfy bike I'd ever ridden. It has that wonderful steel springiness...

When I shopped for a new bike last fall, I rode lots of different bikes, including a range of Serottas and Sevens. What I found is that I preferred every Serotta I rode to any Seven I rode. These bikes were all 'standard' geometry, and ranged from a full-Ti Fierte to a carbon/Ti Nove. Let me be clear - I preferred the $1,700 Fierte to the $2,700 Axiom. I found the Serottas handled more stably, climbed significantly better, and felt livelier than any other bikes I rode.

I started my shopping biased towards Seven, since I like my Steel Axiom quite a lot. I ended it completely sold on Serotta. I bought a Nove (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=13301).

Note that I am not saying that Sevens are bad bikes! I think they are great. But I found that Serottas were even better.

I think it's worth seeking out a dealer where you can try these bikes for yourself, and spend time with a knowledgeable, responsive fitter. I'm lucky enough to live near one, but if your riding is important to you, it's worth the investment to travel.

Good luck!

[Jeff N.]

Never one to let indecision get the best of me, I own and ride both a Seven Cycles Axiom Ti and Serotta Legend Ti. I've gone over all this before, but let me sum things up very briefly:
1. Call Serotta, you get sent up a tree. Call Seven, you get a live voice within two rings.
2. Seven, with it's flawless double pass welds and meticulous attention to detail and options, beats Serotta in this department, IMO.
3. Serotta's ride quality suits my taste somewhat better than the Seven, but just marginally so.
4. Seven's radically shaped chain and seat stays are a thing of beauty.
Both are wonderful machines any serious cyclist would be proud to own, bottom line. You really can't go wrong with either, even though most folks here will understandably have a woodie for Serotta. Jeff N.

[RichMc]

This is darn near six of one and half dozen of the other. When I was shopping for the bike I called the Serotta factory as we have no dealer in my state (which is 2,500 miles from anywhere). The guys at the factory wanted to put me into a Legend straightaway and wouldn't even answer my questions about the other models. They then put me onto a shop a couple hundred miles away that they would deal with. OK. The guy at the shop wanted to put me on a Legend right away saying I wouldn't be happy with anything else. Flat period. The Concours would have been a stretch at the time. The Serotta folks seemed to have the attitude at the time that if I was calling them then I should have the money to get a Legend. Hmmm???? It was just an impression that I got.

I talked to my local Seven dealer and he was great . Bumped me a bit to an Axiom. We did the measurement thing. I talked to my "guy" at the Seven factory 3 times to get the "right" setup. He was excellent about all questions. I ended really liking the bike but after a year of riding it I began to experiment with different positions.

Then I went back to Colorado and went through the Serotta fit process. That produced slightly different numbers and with a different seat post and a longer stem got the Axiom dialed for better power and handling at a slight cost of comfort.

I put 50 miles on a Serotta Legend (ex SN team bike 58cm) on a leg in last year's Ride the Rockies. That was the first day so there was lots of climbing and a good, fast, twisty descent. In the end I don't think I can really tell a difference. I think the Serotta has the edge in "Bling" plus the Colorado Tubing concept is kinda cool too. On the other hand if you like the look of the Seven rear stays and dropouts (which I do) you might like the Seven. Either way it's not extremely likely that you will get the optimum setup first thing out of the box with either company. That's an evolutionary thing. I'm happy with my Axiom and my Pegoretti. If I had to do it all over again I would try the Serotta but mostly because of the bling and that I've gotten used to spending a bit more than I like. It hurts to do it but, like riding, you ease into it.

[Serotta PETE]

I'm in Little Rock, AR. No Serotta dealer here; the closest is a five hour drive. I imagine I could drive to the Dallas area but if I have to travel I'd rather just go to the Serotta factory and get fitted there.

I'm going to email to see if that's possible and I'll update this thread with the response.


As someone mentioned earlier, Smiley is in DC and does an excellent job. He has lots of experience and knowledge. Take a weekend to DC and enjoy sites and SMILEY!!!!!!

[Ahneida Ride]

I'm in Little Rock, AR. No Serotta dealer here; the closest is a five hour drive. I imagine I could drive to the Dallas area but if I have to travel I'd rather just go to the Serotta factory and get fitted there.

I'm going to email to see if that's possible and I'll update this thread with the response.

Check you Private messages !
I just sent you one.

[Dekonick]

I can also vouch for Smiley - no matter what you pick, it is worth a fitting with a knowledgeable fitter. Show me any other fitter that is an engineer - I don't know any. Smiley has a passion for cycling, is probably one of the best fitters in the country, and can help set you up on your bike - whichever bike you go with.

I LOVE my Serotta - but I have no experience with Seven. I also love my el cheapo steel Surly - no bling there, but a great ride.

Good luck!

(take a trip to D.C. and visit Smiley! - you might even be able to ride with Sandy - that is a pleasure in and of itself and worth the trip alone!)

[Ray]

(take a trip to D.C. and visit Smiley! - you might even be able to ride with Sandy - that is a pleasure in and of itself and worth the trip alone!)
Sounds like a plug for the Notrott Weekend on May 20th-ish. Come have fun, get fit and fitted, and order a Serotta while you're there. And ride with Sandy!

-Ray

[chrisroph]

No contest, serotta. There are a lot of good used ones available if you don't want to spring for new. I'd love a custom legend with 8 cm of bb drop and an F3 fork. But, IM not in the market now.

Or, spectrums are brilliant.

For off the shelf, look at the merlin works, a slightly less expensive standard geo version of a spectrum, with the incredible 1" chainstays.

[Needs Help]

My contact there was
inexperienced, elusive, slow to return calls/emails, not forthcoming with
answers, and generally left me with the feeling that I shouldn't be dealing with
him.
Unfortunately, that sounds similar to the various Serotta dealers I've contacted--except most of them were experienced. :(

[sevencyclist]

I have Seven mountainbike from one of the reputable shop in San Francisco that sells both Seven and Serotta. I am happy with the MTB fit although I have never measured whether the bike matched my intended spec.

I have tried some titanium road bikes when I was deciding on roadbikes. The three titnium bikes that I tried were Merlin Titanium, Serotta Otrott, and Seven Elium.

The Elium was very stiff and rough in the ride. I felt a lot of road buzz. The handling was fine, and I felt that I was in control of the machine. The Merlin was comfortable, and I felt like I could ride forever on it. However, the handling was a little slow and felt perhaps less agile. The Ottrott was very comfortable with good feel of the road while the buzz was not jarring. The handling felt natural, so that I did not feel like I was riding a machine.

From the three titanium/carbon bikes I rode, I would choose Ottrott.

[92degrees]

The Elium was very stiff and rough in the ride. I felt a lot of road buzz. The handling was fine, and I felt that I was in control of the machine. The Merlin was comfortable, and I felt like I could ride forever on it. However, the handling was a little slow and felt perhaps less agile. The Ottrott was very comfortable with good feel of the road while the buzz was not jarring. The handling felt natural, so that I did not feel like I was riding a machine.

From the three titanium/carbon bikes I rode, I would choose Ottrott.

i was fortunate to have an elium for a two week sleepover followed by a week with an ottrott. i thought the elium was a great climber but otherwise it didn't stand out in any particular way. the ottrott was excellent all around. i bought the ottrott. i suspect it has as much to do with the design of the individual bikes as it does which company built them. i did do a full fitting for the seven. i trusted serotta more.

[Smiley]

Come to Nottrott weekend , meet Too Tall and the gang , I'll put you up for Free , tell me what bike size you think you want to demo and I'll arrange to have it brought down from the factory . We'll ride, you'll enjoy the weekend and yes I do have a size cycle here at home we can play with. Most important come to Nottrott Merryland 2006 and we'll have some serotta celebs for you to meet and I am working on some demo bikes too.

[Brons2]

tell me what bike size you think you want to demo and I'll arrange to have it brought down from the factory .

Hi. Can you arrange for a 68cm with about a 64cm tt to be brought down? :D

[Smiley]

Up to stock sizes , that would be a press to get a frame larger then 62 cm . I am sure they have a 60 cm somewhere. Contact your local dealer and see if they can get you something sooner , Nottrott 2006 is May 20 th . Sorry

[Brons2]

Oh it's ok, I know I am a pure custom fit, I thought I'd just throw that out and if you would have said Yes, I would have made plans to attend.

I have a custom Rivendell built up as a fast road bike (as opposed to audax or loaded touring) and I'm pretty happy with it. Wouldn't mind adding a Ti Serotta to the stable though :D

[Fixed]

No contest, serotta. There are a lot of good used ones available if you don't want to spring for new. I'd love a custom legend with 8 cm of bb drop and an F3 fork. But, IM not in the market now.

Or, spectrums are brilliant.

For off the shelf, look at the merlin works, a slightly less expensive standard geo version of a spectrum, with the incredible 1" chainstays.
bro what chrisroph said
cheers

[Ahneida Ride]

Smiley gets my vote too !

[yeehawfactor]

the crew at serotta are very willing to discuss why they chose this ht length over that, why they chose this hta over that. seven-not so much. serotta, in my experience, is always willing to tell you this is what we think and why. seven has more of a "well this is what we think we'd rather not go into it would you like to pay now or not" attitude. call each company and talk to them. i think the winner will emerge.

[PanTerra]

I'm in Little Rock, AR. No Serotta dealer here; the closest is a five hour drive. I imagine I could drive to the Dallas area but if I have to travel I'd rather just go to the Serotta factory and get fitted there.

I'm going to email to see if that's possible and I'll update this thread with the response.

You should come to Dallas, you could do a one shop comparison at Richardson Bike Mart. They are the Serotta, Seven, Merlin, Ind Fab, Lightspeed, GURU, Griffen dealer. Jim and Rhonda are great.
http://bikemart.com/index.cfm

[Dekonick]

Thats where I bought my Hors Categorie from (Richardsons) - The entire transaction was done over the phone (there was not alot of choice as this was the only 56 stock frame left anywhere that I could find...) but the staff were great!

Two thumbs (or banana's) up for RBM :banana: :banana:

[PanTerra]

Thats where I bought my Hors Categorie from (Richardsons) - The entire transaction was done over the phone (there was not alot of choice as this was the only 56 stock frame left anywhere that I could find...) but the staff were great!

Two thumbs (or banana's) up for RBM :banana: :banana:

They are great. They treated me so well in how they handled my missfortune on my LeMond. That is how I ended up with my CSi. Click on "My CSi" in my signature for the whole story of the experience. Be glad your HG wasn't my size. :beer:

[eddief]

http://207.57.24.8/

[Jeff N.]

Dean makes a dang nice frame for the money, IMO. Weld bead/uniformity/quality is first rate. Better'n'Serotta, IMO, in that regard. Moots is still the very best in the business in that respect. Jeff N.

[H1449-6]

I appreciate the comments. Seems a popular topic.

I've decided to go with Spectrum cycles. The appeal there is manifold: Tom Kellogg is one of the godfathers of Ti frame design; he answers the phone on the first or second ring; quality of process and build seems to be beyond reproach; I can be fitted by him at his location. Delivery time is 12 weeks or so.

Thanks for all the comments. Next time I'm in the market I'll have the options mentioned here to consider.

Mike

[PanTerra]

I appreciate the comments. Seems a popular topic.

I've decided to go with Spectrum cycles. The appeal there is manifold: Tom Kellogg is one of the godfathers of Ti frame design; he answers the phone on the first or second ring; quality of process and build seems to be beyond reproach; I can be fitted by him at his location. Delivery time is 12 weeks or so.

Thanks for all the comments. Next time I'm in the market I'll have the options mentioned here to consider.

Mike

Tom who?

[andy mac]

I appreciate the comments. Seems a popular topic.

I've decided to go with Spectrum cycles. The appeal there is manifold: Tom Kellogg is one of the godfathers of Ti frame design; he answers the phone on the first or second ring; quality of process and build seems to be beyond reproach; I can be fitted by him at his location. Delivery time is 12 weeks or so.

Thanks for all the comments. Next time I'm in the market I'll have the options mentioned here to consider.

Mike


when i was looking for a builder i didn't take into account their phone answering skills. will have to keep that in mind for next time.

:beer:

[Jeff N.]

I appreciate the comments. Seems a popular topic.

I've decided to go with Spectrum cycles. The appeal there is manifold: Tom Kellogg is one of the godfathers of Ti frame design; he answers the phone on the first or second ring; quality of process and build seems to be beyond reproach; I can be fitted by him at his location. Delivery time is 12 weeks or so.

Thanks for all the comments. Next time I'm in the market I'll have the options mentioned here to consider.

MikeAbsolutely excellent choice. You WON'T be sorry! Jeff n.

[OldDog]

Tom and Jeff are both wonderful gentlemen. You will get what you expect, Tom is easy to communicate with and his paint jobs are the best. Good luck.

[guyintense]

If I had to choose between the Serotta and the Seven I'd buy the Moots.

[Ray]

I appreciate the comments. Seems a popular topic.

I've decided to go with Spectrum cycles. The appeal there is manifold: Tom Kellogg is one of the godfathers of Ti frame design; he answers the phone on the first or second ring; quality of process and build seems to be beyond reproach; I can be fitted by him at his location. Delivery time is 12 weeks or so.

Thanks for all the comments. Next time I'm in the market I'll have the options mentioned here to consider.

Mike
Nice call. I'd never try to talk you out of a Serotta - if you get the right fitter they're as good as it gets. But you won't do better than Spectrum imho and you KNOW you're getting the right fitter.

Enjoy!

-Ray

[Ozz]

I...I've decided to go with Spectrum cycles. The appeal there is manifold: Tom Kellogg is one of the godfathers of Ti frame design; he answers the phone on the first or second ring; quality of process and build seems to be beyond reproach; I can be fitted by him at his location. Delivery time is 12 weeks or so....
I buddy picked up a Spectrum steel bike last year. He had a great experience and the bike is truly gorgoeous. Best of all....it's just my size! ;)

I will echo that Tom's painting is top-notch.

Have fun and don't forget to post pics in the custom gallery when you take delivery.

[Spectrum Bob]

I appreciate the comments. Seems a popular topic.

I've decided to go with Spectrum cycles. The appeal there is manifold: Tom Kellogg is one of the godfathers of Ti frame design; he answers the phone on the first or second ring; quality of process and build seems to be beyond reproach; I can be fitted by him at his location. Delivery time is 12 weeks or so.

Thanks for all the comments. Next time I'm in the market I'll have the options mentioned here to consider.

Mike

Mike,
Great choice – my wife and I both have Spectrums and could not be happier –Tom and Jeff are incredible to work with – the barn is a very cool place – and I love my Spectrum more today than yesterday.
Bob

[jeffg]

for big fellas. You could ask BigMac if he were still around.

Seven makes a fine bike to look at, but I do not like their handling, chainstays or attitude.

My Legend is the best bike I have ever owned, period. It is my ride of choice and has accompanied me on many double centuries, rides in the Alps, Dolomites, Black Forest etc. Kelly Bedford gets it.

If you need the best aesthetics, go Moots but let Steve Hampsten pick the geo ...

Still, at your size I would go Serotta in a heartbeat

[chrisroph]

Great choice, you will not be disappointed.

[itsalldark]

Talk to Brendan at Alberto's Cycles in Highland Park, IL. They carry both lines and he is a master fitter and one hell of a rider. He will be able to walk you through the process and tel you what is what.

[PanTerra]

I believe it is a little late.

[stevep]

good choice. tom knows a lot and he is a craftsman to boot.

[Fixed]

bro and he still races
cheers

[PanTerra]

And he is a member of the forum. http://panterragroup.home.mindspring.com/emoticons/bananapiano.gifhttp://panterragroup.home.mindspring.com/emoticons/banana2.gif

[bluesea]

..and he's in the shop by 7:00 am.

[PanTerra]

I think there is a song about him. :beer:

[H1449-6]

..and he's in the shop by 7:00 am.

That's exactly what he told me when I set the fitting appointment.

[Ray]

..and he's in the shop by 7:00 am.
His commute is very short!

-Ray

[Spectrum Bob]

He makes great ginger snap cookies!

[spincycle]

and he has a great dog named Colby....

You made a great choice amongst a field of great custom builders that are available. You wouldn't go wrong with any of the builders that frequent this forum. We are lucky there are a fairly decent number to choose from, otherwise the wait would really be long!

My Spectrum is a great bike and Tom and Jeff are great to deal with.

[DaleOsborn]

I'd say if you are going with titanium you can't go wrong with Seven or Serotta--especially since Seven has replaced those hideous Wound-Up carbon forks they used to sell with their bikes. Seven has tons of experience with ti as those guys all started with Merlin.

But if you're going steel, absolutely pick Serotta. Serotta has more than 30 years of experience making steel bikes--they've got it down. Seven, on the other hand, makes only a couple of steel models and they have about 5 years experience with steel. Serotta has way more experience working with and painting steel.

--Dale

[Jeff N.]

I say go Land Shark if you want the best in fillet brazed steel creations. John Slawta flat has his poop together, IMO. Jeff n.