General opinions of American Classic wheels?

[Dead Man]

Howdy

Local guy has a barely used set of American Classic 38 carbon tubulars for a good price. 1245g is a full 100g off my current wheel weight, and mine are starting to get a little rough anyway.... I trued before my last gluing, and 1000 miles later the rear's already kissing the brake pad again.

Surprisingly, I'm not finding much on Am Class wheels here on the board. The Almighty Googlez has sort of mixed feelings on them... Some folks think they're the beezneez, others say much too flimsy. I've had a few sets cross my path, but I've yet not actually ridden any, myself.

Thoughts in general? Any experience with this wheelset in particular?

Thanks

-B

[Don49]

I have a pair of AC's on a 29er MTB, sealed up and running tubeless. Zero issues in seven years of mtbing, and almost as light as Stan's race wheels. My experience probably doesn't translate well to carbon tubular road wheels, but I'm happy with the brand.

[jr59]

I know Tom Kellogg swears by them, and he is pretty straight forward with stuff.

[texbike]

I know Tom Kellogg swears by them, and he is pretty straight forward with stuff.

If Tom swears by them, then they've got to be good! Seriously...

My personal experience has been with a couple set of AC350s. They rode fine and were nice and light. However, the braking with them was terrible. I had the AC350s on one of my bikes for about a year before changing over to a set of Ksyrium SLs. The first time I hit the front brakes with the Kysriums, it almost threw me over the front of the bike. There was that much of a braking difference between the AC350s and the Kysriums!

Texbike

[Drmojo]

I have a magnesium set, and another clincher set--light, fast, but go outta true frequently--as least for me--one set on my wife's bike seems to stay true.
maybe 150 lb limit?

[kramnnim]

I have three pairs...one on my MTB, no issues. Well, the previous owner cracked the axle end cap, had to replace it. And the spoke nipples seem to be frozen to the spokes.

Also have a Sprint 350 set, put around 20k on them. The braking track is narrow and not good. Spoke nipples also frozen to the spokes. (they round off before they break loose) Conversion from Shimano 10 to Campy required a redish, and the largest sprocket (11sp) rubbed the hub, had to use some shims on the axle to shift the FH body away from the hub shell.

Third set are CR 420s, haven't used them much. Took them to France and the braking is again not good...especially in the mountains when it is raining...

[Dead Man]

I have three pairs...one on my MTB, no issues. Well, the previous owner cracked the axle end cap, had to replace it. And the spoke nipples seem to be frozen to the spokes.

Also have a Sprint 350 set, put around 20k on them. The braking track is narrow and not good. Spoke nipples also frozen to the spokes. (they round off before they break loose) Conversion from Shimano 10 to Campy required a redish, and the largest sprocket (11sp) rubbed the hub, had to use some shims on the axle to shift the FH body away from the hub shell.

Third set are CR 420s, haven't used them much. Took them to France and the braking is again not good...especially in the mountains when it is raining...

Both of those have alloy brake tracks, don't they?

[kramnnim]

Yes, and thus not useful information for you...

[oldpotatoe]

Yes, and thus not useful information for you...

True a lot of them. Overhauled a lot of them. Not a fan of their 'one pawl' FH type. Not a fan. Flimsy with poor hubs, IMHO.

[Dead Man]

True a lot of them. Overhauled a lot of them. Not a fan of their 'one pawl' FH type. Not a fan. Flimsy with poor hubs, IMHO.

but so light, and cheap

[Zoodles]

have the 420s, an older pair. Love em and ride them near every day. Mine are older and require hub maintenance but are otherwise fine.

At the right price I would get them again in a heartbeat.

[cmg]

several sets of AC350s. what do want to know? in order to make 350gram rims something has to give. The brake track/clincher area is thin, has to be. All 350s come in the 32 rear/28 front spoke configuration. the 1300 gram wheelset will come with sapim spokes, 1400g will be double butted, thinner on the front. If you like to throw the bike around side to side you will flex the rims. If you like to pedal through turns above 21-23 mph you will introduce a flex/bobing into the set. These will also be the lightest, easest to spin up alumnim rims you can find. coupled with a 200g rear, 150g front tire and 50gram tubes will put around at around tubular wheel weight. adjusting the rear hub bearings is a bit finicky but that relies more on bearing quality. Swapping bearing instructions is on the website. i'm 200lbs and i like them but i don't throw them around, pedal through turns above 20mph or brake extensively. For club riding they're my go to wheels but i'm not hitting very high speeds, 23mph or less on south texas rollers. Had a set of stans alpha 340 rims built in the same 32/28 spk configuration and cracked the rear rim 6 months later. I would imagine the mag rims would be weaker. the current models have gone to a slightly wider rim. my opinion.........

[abalone]

Them and Ritchey wheels are decent. Good price.

[csm]

I've got 350s. Broke one spoke on the front and one on the back. They ride nice enough with 25c tires.


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[zap]

Howdy

Local guy has a barely used set of American Classic 38 carbon tubulars for a good price. 1245g is a full 100g off my current wheel weight, and mine are starting to get a little rough anyway.... I trued before my last gluing, and 1000 miles later the rear's already kissing the brake pad again.

Surprisingly, I'm not finding much on Am Class wheels here on the board. The Almighty Googlez has sort of mixed feelings on them... Some folks think they're the beezneez, others say much too flimsy. I've had a few sets cross my path, but I've yet not actually ridden any, myself.

Thoughts in general? Any experience with this wheelset in particular?

Thanks

-B

Might be similar to a set I built over 10 years ago......my set came under 1200 grams. Zipp 38 carbon rims and AC hubs (micro front). The rims were ok, a bit soft and don't like a solid glue job. The AC hubs......below average. If the price is right it could be a fun wheel set for a few months because it's light.

[Veloo]

Bumping this to see if anyone has feedback on these proprietary American Classic nipples.
They're aluminum but claim to solve the breaking issue with aluminum nipples so you can benefit from the weight savings reliably.

Mentioned in this video
https://youtu.be/WnQlRBm0r_s?t=240

and this article about mid way down.
https://bikerumor.com/2009/09/29/interbike-2009-american-classics-new-mag-rim-road-wheels-and-tubeless-mtb/

Has anyone had issues with them?

[Mark McM]

Bumping this to see if anyone has feedback on these proprietary American Classic nipples.
They're aluminum but claim to solve the breaking issue with aluminum nipples so you can benefit from the weight savings reliably.

Mentioned in this video
https://youtu.be/WnQlRBm0r_s?t=240

and this article about mid way down.
https://bikerumor.com/2009/09/29/interbike-2009-american-classics-new-mag-rim-road-wheels-and-tubeless-mtb/

Has anyone had issues with them?

These types of nipples are not unique to American Classic. Sapim has a version called https://www.sapim.be/nipples/design/double-square:

https://www.sapim.be/sites/default/files/2018-06/double%20square.png

DT Swiss has their own variation they call Squarx (https://www.dtswiss.com/en/components/spokes-and-nipples/nipples/dt-squorx) nipples:

https://d2a13k6araex7u.cloudfront.net/idw/00/00/00/00/00/00/00/00/01/00/13/60/0/image-thumb__1985__product-stage/PHO_NPAH%2B%2B%2B%2B%2B%2B%2B%2B%2B%2B_WEB_SHO_001 ~-~1280w.jpeg


Interestingly, even though Double Square and Squarx nipples are available in aluminum, both companies say the advantage of this design is for ease of wheel buidling (particularly automated building with machines), and neither claim that they stronger or more durable.

I have not used any of the nipples, but I can't see why they'd be any worse than other nipples.

[oldpotatoe]

These types of nipples are not unique to American Classic. Sapim has a version called https://www.sapim.be/nipples/design/double-square:



https://d2a13k6araex7u.cloudfront.net/idw/00/00/00/00/00/00/00/00/01/00/13/60/0/image-thumb__1985__product-stage/PHO_NPAH%2B%2B%2B%2B%2B%2B%2B%2B%2B%2B_WEB_SHO_001 ~-~1280w.jpeg


Interestingly, even though Double Square and Squarx nipples are available in aluminum, both companies say the advantage of this design is for each of machine building, and neither claim that they stronger or more durable.

I have not used any of the nipples, but I can't see why they'd be any worse than other nipples.

I have built many wheels using DT Squorx nipples..both alloy and brass and they build like any nipple. Nothing really different, at least when building with them. I have used them for light weight wheels, non DT but want lighter and I have used just Sapim 14mm Brass for some DT rims that 'call' for these..(yes, i used nipple washers for those DT rims that called for them).

BUT..the advantage, IMHO, is the ability to turn the alloy nipple with the tool, rather than a spoke wrench..less stripped nipples..Particulalry for rims like DT511, where the nipple doesn't protrude all that much.

[ColonelJLloyd]

I have used both the Squorx and double square nips and unless there is a reason not too (such as the shallowest of rims) I will continue to choose them in the future. I just like building wheels with the T-handle driver from that side of the rim. The traditional flats never get touched unless a few adjustments are needed after tire installation decreases tension or something. Some black nips can show marks from wrenches so this is a subtle advantage.

[Velocipede]

I was the Production Manager at American Classic. Depending on the age of these wheels, I probably made them. I could tell with pictures of them.

So, we used older Zipp 303(38mm) and 404(58mm) rims. We were originally using DT Swiss Aero bladed spokes but they switched to Chun Nan spokes after I left. Spoke nipples, it was standard 14ga, 12mm long brass or alloy DT spoke nipples. We did start using the longer style nipples after about 12 months(so 2003). It required an extra 2.5mm spoke length to make sure the spoke fully went thru the flat and to the end of the nipple.

I built more than a few of these wheels including for PEZ, Velonews and other magazines and websites. They worked really well. The only real issue we had was the drilling from Zipp. They didn't drill them really will and the spoke nipple bed wasn't straight/even. So the spoke nipples sometimes pushed on the side of the carbon fairing. Usually, we caught them before we built them and we did have some that cracked while building them up. If those aren't cracked or showing signs of side pressure, you're good. It was a really good solid wheel.

If you post pics, I can tell you details about them. I still have small parts for the hubs if you need something.

[dddd]

Hi, wondering if you could perhaps tell the what and when of this pair of 38mm carbon tubulars?
Bought these earlier this year and haven't used them yet.
Thanks in advance!

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50525562137_e4eca9b894_c.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50525561917_0cb0e9bea4_c.jpg

[Veloo]

I was just bumping/ inquiring cuz a friend was looking at some 58 wheels on eBay and my digging brought up that video.

As always tho, interesting info from you Velocipede.


I was the Production Manager at American Classic. Depending on the age of these wheels, I probably made them. I could tell with pictures of them.

So, we used older Zipp 303(38mm) and 404(58mm) rims. We were originally using DT Swiss Aero bladed spokes but they switched to Chun Nan spokes after I left. Spoke nipples, it was standard 14ga, 12mm long brass or alloy DT spoke nipples. We did start using the longer style nipples after about 12 months(so 2003). It required an extra 2.5mm spoke length to make sure the spoke fully went thru the flat and to the end of the nipple.

I built more than a few of these wheels including for PEZ, Velonews and other magazines and websites. They worked really well. The only real issue we had was the drilling from Zipp. They didn't drill them really will and the spoke nipple bed wasn't straight/even. So the spoke nipples sometimes pushed on the side of the carbon fairing. Usually, we caught them before we built them and we did have some that cracked while building them up. If those aren't cracked or showing signs of side pressure, you're good. It was a really good solid wheel.

If you post pics, I can tell you details about them. I still have small parts for the hubs if you need something.

[Velocipede]

Hi, wondering if you could perhaps tell the what and when of this pair of 38mm carbon tubulars?
Bought these earlier this year and haven't used them yet.
Thanks in advance!

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50525562137_e4eca9b894_c.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50525561917_0cb0e9bea4_c.jpg

These were after I left. These were probably made after 2006
- They are still the original Zipp 303(38mm) rims.
- Given the era these came from, these most likely have the extended spoke nipples.
- The spokes, I can't 100% tell what they are, but they look like DT Competition. I'm surprised it's as light as you mentioned with Competitions. But it's a 18/24h pair so it's possible.
- Hub wise, that's the 58 front and the 215 rear with the 17mm axle. We were switching to that when I left. It meant we didn't have to pull the end cap off the non-drive side anymore. Made things faster and easier.

[Velocipede]

I was just bumping/ inquiring cuz a friend was looking at some 58 wheels on eBay and my digging brought up that video.

As always tho, interesting info from you Velocipede.

No worries. I've been in the industry a long time. There's a lot more I could detail out about the wheels I made and the specs.