The final piece of the puzzle..who owns the serotta name and what will become of it?

[likebikes]

Are the last owners of the serotta the owners of the serotta name?

I imagine the name is the only thing worth anything at this point, as all tooling has been liquidated and everything shut down.

Will we see the serotta name on mass produced carbon or other bikes soon?

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . is that Bradway and Brian Case--or his former cronies--own the name trademark as it relates to cycling. After what they did to the company, though, I'm not sure that it has much value on the present day market. I suggested to Ben that if he was going to build bikes again he should market them under the "Attores" brand name. :rolleyes:

BBD

[christian]

I don't think it has any current value. To those of us who know the brand, it means "dysfunction" and to younger people, it has no resonance at all.

[BumbleBeeDave]

I like Ben, but that marketing ship has sailed.

BBD

[majorpat]

Agreed, that name brand is no longer viable, although sad for many of us. In 1986 my bike shop had a lugged, blue Serotta frame up on the wall. When I asked, the shop guys said he made bikes that were raced in the Tour de France. To me, that was all I needed to hear, been a bike junkie ever since. It's how I ended up on this forum.

[jmoore]

Bikesdirect.com will be interested in purchasing the name eventually.

[pjmsj21]

I don't think it has any current value. To those of us who know the brand, it means "dysfunction" and to younger people, it has no resonance at all.

Ouch....I am not sure I equate the brand with dysfunction. I know all of this has been hashed through over hundreds if not thousands of posts. But I think the consensus is that they were amongst the very best at building high quality bikes but perhaps not the best at running a business.

[unterhausen]

I think it's a good brand name. Maybe someone will pick it up. Bikes Direct sells Windsor, which is a company that sold really crappy bikes for most of its history, so it's certainly a step up from that

[thirdgenbird]

Ouch....I am not sure I equate the brand with dysfunction. I know all of this has been hashed through over hundreds if not thousands of posts. But I think the consensus is that they were amongst the very best at building high quality bikes but perhaps not the best at running a business.

The problem is that people that know and value the Serotta brand would also know if the second coming was just a branding effort. I'm guessing the average person just getting into the sport or looking for an entry to mid level road bike won't know about the serotta legacy.

[SamIAm]

I might buy it. On the off chance that someone sees this post and has authority to transact this business, PM me.

[bcroslin]

I don't think it has any current value. To those of us who know the brand, it means "dysfunction" and to younger people, it has no resonance at all.

I'm not so sure of that. I'd bet most cyclists don't even know the company got bought much less went under. I still equate Serotta with quality handmade bikes even though I'm carbon-fiber riding Fred.

[coylifut]

bankrupt bike companies have a poor history of revival.

[Black Dog]

Ben was saying in an interview on the outspoken cyclist, recently, that he is seeking to get the name back and it is in the hands of his lawyer.

[Anarchist]

Ouch....I am not sure I equate the brand with dysfunction. I know all of this has been hashed through over hundreds if not thousands of posts. But I think the consensus is that they were amongst the very best at building high quality bikes but perhaps not the best at running a business.

...... were .....

[jmoore]

The Pronto design and concept would be worth reviving if there was a company out there that wanted to build a ti race bike to a price point. I thought that model had lots of potential.

[texbike]

The Serotta brand has sailed. Let it go....

Texbike

[laupsi]

The Pronto design and concept would be worth reviving if there was a company out there that wanted to build a ti race bike to a price point. I thought that model had lots of potential.

Indeed. I can vouch for the Pronto, it's solid & mighty fine 😜

[SPOKE]

I might buy it. On the off chance that someone sees this post and has authority to transact this business, PM me.

Hmmm.....if you do find a way to get ownership of the brand I'm sure you'll put together a good plan to bring it back to life!!!! Hope this happens.....:banana:

[charliedid]

Ben was saying in an interview on the outspoken cyclist, recently, that he is seeking to get the name back and it is in the hands of his lawyer.

It might be a good idea to get it back and not use it, just so it does not go the road of Merlin etc.

I don't think we have seen the end of Ben in the bike building business.

I'd come up with a new name.

[54ny77]

I'd like to see Lance buy it.

The amount of traffic on this website would subsequently melt the servers, and the owners of the Paceline could monetize it and retire in the lap of luxury, new tires and support vehicles with food and drink on every ride, that sort of thing....

[oldpotatoe]

Are the last owners of the serotta the owners of the serotta name?

I imagine the name is the only thing worth anything at this point, as all tooling has been liquidated and everything shut down.

Will we see the serotta name on mass produced carbon or other bikes soon?

Probably not.

Not much at that, worth, IMHO. Small brand with a vocal but very small, following. I think he would have a much harder time than Chris Chance, to resurrect the brand. Owned by the guys that owned it last. Like Richard Schwinn, doesn't own his own name.

[Black Dog]

I think the name is worth something to Ben. Perhaps for future bike plans but perhaps more so for reasons of pride. If he owns it then he controls any possibility of resurrection and does not have to see it brought back by someone else in a way that he would not like.

[J.Greene]

I'm sure the name is in control of the bankruptcy trustee, no? If so, the trustee has a responsibility to find the highest bidder.

[jr59]

I might buy it. On the off chance that someone sees this post and has authority to transact this business, PM me.

That would be a GREAT idea! I have no idea where/or how to find the people who control such things, but still a very good idea. Bankruptcy court is where I would start.

[malcolm]

I can see why Ben would want it and if in that position I would want it as well, just to protect the history, but for anyone else I can't imagine what good it would be. For a few of us it will always represent what a fine handmade bike can be but for most folks it's a distant memory at best a oh yeah didn't they used to build race bikes

[mg2ride]

Bikesdirect.com will be interested in purchasing the name eventually.

If that happens, I WILL buy one.

[bfd]

Are the last owners of the serotta the owners of the serotta name?

I imagine the name is the only thing worth anything at this point, as all tooling has been liquidated and everything shut down.

Will we see the serotta name on mass produced carbon or other bikes soon?

When I think of the name "Serotta" and want to get one, I think Dave Kirk, Kelly Bedford, Dave Wages/Ellis Cycles....and any other name I may have missed! Those are the guys I would go to if I want a real Serotta! Good Luck! :banana::confused::eek::butt:

[SamIAm]

That would be a GREAT idea! I have no idea where/or how to find the people who control such things, but still a very good idea. Bankruptcy court is where I would start.

Some progress made on this today thanks to a fellow forum member. We'll see what happens.

[William]

When I think of the name "Serotta" and want to get one, I think Dave Kirk, Kelly Bedford, Dave Wages/Ellis Cycles....and any other name I may have missed! Those are the guys I would go to if I want a real Serotta! Good Luck! :banana::confused::eek::butt:


It would be interesting:
Acquire the name, then contract out to Dave, Kelly, & Dave.

Two or three models:
Affordable race iron (build new blood), mid-level, high end.



Viable? I don't know, but it would be an interesting study. To bcd's point above, right now that is what most Serotta fans think of when they think "Serotta".






William

[dekindy]

It would be interesting:
Acquire the name, then contract out to Dave, Kelly, & Dave.

Two or three models:
Affordable race iron (build new blood), mid-level, high end.

Viable? I don't know, but it would be an interesting study. To bcd's point above, right now that is what most Serotta fans think of when they think "Serotta".

William

Do you mean for designing the bike? They certainly are not going to have time to build them considering their lead times.

[soulspinner]

Some progress made on this today thanks to a fellow forum member. We'll see what happens.

Cool

[rugbysecondrow]

Very few people who own Serotta bikes are in the loop regarding all the management issues etc. The prices are still high for the frames on Ebay, so that leads me to believe that first and foremost, the Serotta name denotes a high quality product.

As for how the brand name could have value, I am not sure. If a cogent business model was in place I am sure that somebody could build a new system with updated processes to make the product do well.

[zap]

edit

Very few people who own Serotta bikes are in the loop regarding all the management issues etc. .

I found that many were quite aware including many none Serotta owners. It's ancient history now.

Didn't No22 Bicycle Company purchase Serotta's manufacturing equipment? Is the Great Divide the current Pronto?

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . and are building their US bikes in Johnstown, NY, about 30 miles west of Saratoga. Some main former employees of Serotta are working there, including Paceline member Shock. I have not examined the bikes closely for geometry, but the photos of their Ti bikes I've seen online seem to have many of the Serotta style cues.

There was an auction several months ago of the remaining equipment in the Geyser Road Serotta facility and a source in a position to know told me that somebody in the industry snapped up much of the best equipment on the first day, but it was apparently not anyone from the Saratoga area.

Kelly Bedford remains in the Saratoga area and former longtime painter Bill McDonald has started his BMac Paintworks business in the area, where he is busy doing custom paint for all brands and quite a few Serotta repaints, judging from his personal Facebook feed. Another of Serotta's longtime welders, whose name escapes me, is also still in the area working with Kelly.

I think if I knew nothing about the brand\, were not an owner, and had just seen them out on the road, my first reactions to hearing the name would probably be A) super high quality, and B) expensive. I agree that to most cyclists outside of a small circle here, that's all the name means, if even that. They know nothing of all the soap opera.

BBD

[jmoore]

I can't see why any of those guys would agree to an arrangement like that. They all have highly regarded custom framesets. Contract building for a direct competitor brand seems like it would hurt that business.

I can see where Kelly would do the Galuzetti frames as those are differentiated from his "normal" stuff. I'd sooner just get another Bedford or have Dave or Dave build me something with their name on it than have a new "Serotta".


It would be interesting:
Acquire the name, then contract out to Dave, Kelly, & Dave.

Two or three models:
Affordable race iron (build new blood), mid-level, high end.

Viable? I don't know, but it would be an interesting study. To bcd's point above, right now that is what most Serotta fans think of when they think "Serotta".

William

[William]

I can't see why any of those guys would agree to an arrangement like that. They all have highly regarded custom framesets. Contract building for a direct competitor brand seems like it would hurt that business.

I can see where Kelly would do the Galuzetti frames as those are differentiated from his "normal" stuff. I'd sooner just get another Bedford or have Dave or Dave build me something with their name on it than have a new "Serotta".



Oh, I agree. Just throwing it out for thought.





William

[Climb01742]

As a branding exercise, buying then resurrecting an old brand name has been done quite a few times. The key, usually, is to buy a name that has a large, positive place in the memory of the target audience...then rekindle and build on the positive. Serotta has a mixed reputation and memory, some quite good and some not so good. To resurrect it would require overcoming the bad, not simply building on the good. That's a much harder proposition. Not impossible, certainly, but harder, longer and costlier.

[echelon_john]

I was part of a group that formed an exploratory 'committee' to look at purchasing Serotta just as bankruptcy proceedings were initiated. IIRC, they (Case) were adamant about selling the brand separately from the physical plant, equipment and I.P.

I think he valued the name at something like $50k at that time. Not sure what it would be worth now, if anything. It's not like there's nostalgia around the brand that would see it through a transition into a mass-market production bike. It was a niche within a niche.

Needless to say, we did not proceed after doing a bit of due diligence on the organization, the people involved (this was post Ben & Bill), and the finances.

[texbike]

I was part of a group that formed an exploratory 'committee' to look at purchasing Serotta just as bankruptcy proceedings were initiated. IIRC, they (Case) were adamant about selling the brand separately from the physical plant, equipment and I.P.

I think he valued the name at something like $50k at that time. Not sure what it would be worth now, if anything. It's not like there's nostalgia around the brand that would see it through a transition into a mass-market production bike. It was a niche within a niche.

Needless to say, we did not proceed after doing a bit of due diligence on the organization, the people involved (this was post Ben & Bill), and the finances.

$50K for the brand doesn't seem too terribly expensive. If one were to offer a line-up of 3-5 no-nonsense, high-quality production bikes (standard off the peg dimensions with zero or limited customs), one could possibly build on the former reputation of the brand (while distancing itself from the negative aspects). It could be viable.

Texbike

[shovelhd]

$50K has got to be a drop in the bucket for bikesdirect.

[pbarry]

$50K for the brand doesn't seem too terribly expensive. If one were to offer a line-up of 3-5 no-nonsense, high-quality production bikes (standard off the peg dimensions with zero or limited customs), one could possibly build on the former reputation of the brand (while distancing itself from the negative aspects). It could be viable.

Texbike

Yes. Not a bad deal initially, probably a bargain now. I like your lineup.

$50K has got to be a drop in the bucket for bikesdirect.

Stop it.

The bikesdirect suggestion was toungue-in-cheek,
but, you knew that.

:banana:

[shovelhd]

You know I would not want to see that happen.

[happycampyer]

Didn't No22 Bicycle Company purchase Serotta's manufacturing equipment? Is the Great Divide the current Pronto?I'm pretty sure the Great Divide model existed before the Pronto. They are in the same category (modern ti with oversized tubing, tapered fork, etc.), but so is the Moots Vamoots RSL and a host of other bikes.

[fuzzalow]

The Serotta brand is worthless. Even at its height as a supplier to the 7-Eleven pro team it's bikes were labeled "Murray" or "Huffy". And building on pro cycling history/credibility is the only angle left to the brand in an attempt to tap into a general cycling consumer market. So there is no need to worry about bikesdirect taking an interest in buying the rights - they won't because they couldn't spin a tale about it that anyone could romanticize over.

The brand became the original dentist/lawyer expensive bicycle toy product. Any cyclist that doesn't remember the history of Serotta with 7-Eleven will be left then remembering the part about the dentist/lawyer bike. There is nobody that wants a piece of that type of marketing and brand association.

I harbor no ill will towards Serotta - I still own an original Serotta Team 7-Seven Murray. The Serotta brand is dead. It only rises to a brief murmur of undead in forum threads like this one.

[93legendti]

Some progress made on this today thanks to a fellow forum member. We'll see what happens.

Good to hear. Best of luck!

[Elefantino]

I would not want to see Courtney Spratt and her husband, whose name escapes me, buy the name. Even in jest it's a nauseating prospect.

I say we all buy it. We could raise $50k. I'll chip in the first one. Then we can re-rename this place "The Serotta Forum" like God intended.

[1centaur]

For the brand to be worth $50k today it would have to be worth $100k in a few years (even a brand needs to produce an IRR), and the reason it would be worth that money is if it sold more bikes and/or brought a higher price on a given number of bikes than having the same quality and making up a new name - i.e., it saved marketing dollars while increasing marketing effectiveness. It would take a lot of bikes over several years to be worth $100k of saved marketing costs. I will take the under.

[oldpotatoe]

I would not want to see Courtney Spratt and her husband, whose name escapes me, buy the name. Even in jest it's a nauseating prospect.

I say we all buy it. We could raise $50k. I'll chip in the first one. Then we can re-rename this place "The Serotta Forum" like God intended.

God rides a Colnago.

[oldpotatoe]

Very few people who own Serotta bikes are in the loop regarding all the management issues etc. The prices are still high for the frames on Ebay, so that leads me to believe that first and foremost, the Serotta name denotes a high quality product.

As for how the brand name could have value, I am not sure. If a cogent business model was in place I am sure that somebody could build a new system with updated processes to make the product do well.

??

Only one example but a look at completed listings shows Legends, as an example, are really a bargain. Like lots less than 25% of price new.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Serotta-Ti-Legend-Titanium-Frame-57-cm-/251707444548?pt=US_Bicycles_Frames&hash=item3a9aeecd44

[rounder]

I think the only person where the Serotta name has value is Ben. I would like to see him get it back. Then, if he could do something on his own, or with Kelly or others, that would be great.

[SamIAm]

I have no idea if the brand has value, I'm certainly not offering 50k for it though:)

But I don't actually care, I have a very modest plan for what I would like to do that would, in my opinion, be respectful of the heritage of Serotta. And I just don't care whether I make or, more likely, lose money on it.

I do some things for profit, some for fun and some because I should.

Probably a moot point anyway as it is highly unlikely to happen, but you never know.

[texbike]

I think the only person where the Serotta name has value is Ben. I would like to see him get it back. Then, if he could do something on his own, or with Kelly or others, that would be great.

I think he should have it as well but he's proven over time that he doesn't have the ability to effectively manage the brand.

Texbike

[texbike]

I have no idea if the brand has value, I'm certainly not offering 50k for it though:)

But I don't actually care, I have a very modest plan for what I would like to do that would, in my opinion, be respectful of the heritage of Serotta. And I just don't care whether I make or, more likely, lose money on it.

I do some things for profit, some for fun and some because I should.

Probably a moot point anyway as it is highly unlikely to happen, but you never know.

I wish you luck with the endeavor! I'd love to know what you have in mind.

Texbike

[RedRider]

With a bit of insight and some previous experience valuing business models, in my opinion, the name Serotta has zero dollar value to anyone but Ben Serotta. I would even go as far to say even Ben would not use it for his new venture in the bicycle business. He might want to own it only to protect the history.
The high end custom frame buyer wants an association with the brand and builder. Look at any of the other builders with their names on the downtube. Even if they grow their business they are still there. If you can find a quality welder why would he want to build frames under the Serotta name rather than their own? Kelly or the 2 Daves? Why would they bother? $50K is a lot of money for a small framebuilder starting out. Look at all the new builders that have started in the last few years. New names, new workshops and many are now considered tops in their profession.
If you ask 10 cyclists about Serotta you will get 10 different responses about the products. That's not a brand. That's a company that produced frames for 40 years and had a problem aligning their products, their target market and the "vision". People pay up for brands not names.

[nicrump]

it is at least worth $116k in t'shirts on a kick starter campaign.

rude, possibly. i am sorry but i could not resist.

[nicrump]

Michael Spratt?

I would not want to see Courtney Spratt and her husband, whose name escapes me, buy the name. Even in jest it's a nauseating prospect.

I say we all buy it. We could raise $50k. I'll chip in the first one. Then we can re-rename this place "The Serotta Forum" like God intended.

[Elefantino]

God rides a Colnago.

God is not Italian. God is American. It says so on my money.

[jr59]

I have no idea if the brand has value, I'm certainly not offering 50k for it though:)

But I don't actually care, I have a very modest plan for what I would like to do that would, in my opinion, be respectful of the heritage of Serotta. And I just don't care whether I make or, more likely, lose money on it.

I do some things for profit, some for fun and some because I should.

Probably a moot point anyway as it is highly unlikely to happen, but you never know.

Knowing you as I do, I have little doubt that what you say here is 100%% true! I also would like a peak inside your mind about this. Just for my own insights.

I never even thought about you doing such as this in this spot, but it surely is right up your alley. Good luck and try to keep us up yo date.

[texbike]

With a bit of insight and some previous experience valuing business models, in my opinion, the name Serotta has zero dollar value to anyone but Ben Serotta. I would even go as far to say even Ben would not use it for his new venture in the bicycle business. He might want to own it only to protect the history.
The high end custom frame buyer wants an association with the brand and builder. Look at any of the other builders with their names on the downtube. Even if they grow their business they are still there. If you can find a quality welder why would he want to build frames under the Serotta name rather than their own? Kelly or the 2 Daves? Why would they bother? $50K is a lot of money for a small framebuilder starting out. Look at all the new builders that have started in the last few years. New names, new workshops and many are now considered tops in their profession.
If you ask 10 cyclists about Serotta you will get 10 different responses about the products. That's not a brand. That's a company that produced frames for 40 years and had a problem aligning their products, their target market and the "vision". People pay up for brands not names.

It wouldn't make any sense at all for a small builder, except for maybe Ben. Why would a small builder put someone else's name on their work and not build their own brand?

Where it would make sense to me is for a group that would be willing to take the name and the storied history behind it and tie them to a reasonably priced line of production framesets/bikes that are of solid quality and pay homage to the original Serotta mission of uncompromised raceability. I'm talking primarily about off-shored production of 3-5 models that would include steel, aluminum, Ti, and carbon options. Each model would be pure and focused in their intent and mission. Price points of less than $1500 per frame. Black Mountain Cycles has managed to put together a couple of wonderful platforms with very aggressive price points. There isn't any reason why the same couldn't be done in this case and scaled to a greater degree with the Serotta name attached.

Texbike

[victoryfactory]

God rides a Colnago.

and he plays a grey Fender Strat

[Climb01742]

Does it come down to...what is the marginal utility of having 'Serotta' on the downtube? Or the sake of argument, if you had $50,000, which of these actions would create the greatest utility or value:

1. Buy the name Serotta and try to relaunch the brand?

2. Launch a brand from scratch, as Black Mountain has, and put $50,000 into the operation, whether into goods or marketing?

The latter seems like a far better play to me.

[William]

Get rights to the name for $XXX

Convince Both Dave's and Kelly to design and build one frame each based on what "Serotta" is to them.

Sell each for $XXX

Make your money back

Retire the brand...Serotta goes out on a high note.






Then I woke up. ;)



William

[RedRider]

If you have a spare $50,000 you are clearly not currently in the bike business.
Buy your dream bike, a large hammer and put the rest in Treasuries. You will be much happier and if you want to know what you are missing, at the end of every month use the hammer to hit yourself in the head.

[texbike]

If you have a spare $50,000 you are clearly not currently in the bike business.
Buy your dream bike, a large hammer and put the rest in Treasuries. You will be much happier and if you want to know what you are missing, at the end of every month use the hammer to hit yourself in the head.

That's awesome! ;)

Texbike

[pbarry]

it is at least worth $116k in t'shirts on a kick starter campaign.

rude, possibly. i am sorry but i could not resist.

Well done.

[rounder]

Get rights to the name for $XXX

Convince Both Dave's and Kelly to design and build one frame each based on what "Serotta" is to them.

Sell each for $XXX

Make your money back

Retire the brand...Serotta goes out on a high note.


Then I woke up. ;)

William


Agree. That is the way I would like to see it or something like that and go out on a high note. Then he could do whatever he wanted to do.

[pbarry]

The Serotta brand is worthless. Even at its height as a supplier to the 7-Eleven pro team it's bikes were labeled "Murray" or "Huffy". And building on pro cycling history/credibility is the only angle left to the brand in an attempt to tap into a general cycling consumer market. So there is no need to worry about bikesdirect taking an interest in buying the rights - they won't because they couldn't spin a tale about it that anyone could romanticize over.

The brand became the original dentist/lawyer expensive bicycle toy product. Any cyclist that doesn't remember the history of Serotta with 7-Eleven will be left then remembering the part about the dentist/lawyer bike. There is nobody that wants a piece of that type of marketing and brand association.

I harbor no ill will towards Serotta - I still own an original Serotta Team 7-Seven Murray. The Serotta brand is dead. It only rises to a brief murmur of undead in forum threads like this one.

[Emphasis added above] AFAIK, there have been exactly TWO American frame COS who's bikes have been ridden in the TDF: Serotta and Merlin. Roland Della Santa might have done as well for GL's earlier efforts, not sure, but would not be surprised.

When Merlin built the Team Z bikes for the TDF, I brought up the question of having our brand on the frames. IIRC, it was into the high 6/low 7 $$ figures at that time, 24 years ago. Out of our league.. We built 'em, TK, (who worked with the DS to arrive a geo numbers for each rider), painted them with the Team Z logos. No one involved made any profit on the deal, but we were proud to be a part of a pro effort. TK has a good post somewhere on his site about finishing those frames.

Merlin did sponsor the U.S. based Subaru/Montgomery team. All pro riders received a road frame, and a TT frame. Guessing we built 40 units or so. There were $$ from M on top of that. Anyway, we were into that deal for low to mid six figures = Frames with our stickers, and a 4-5 inch logo-on-jersey. Sponsorship ain't cheap.

Serotta was a ground-breaker a few years before, with the first American made frames racing on the Continent. No doubt, their pockets were smaller than Merlin's were, yet neither could cough up the dough for labeling pro bikes. Murray and Huffy had enuf dough, so that's how the bikes were painted.

Those who were serious riders/racers back then knew who made the 7-11 bikes. No one with any miles in their legs believed Huffy or Murray made Alexi's or Davis' bikes.

Whatever your opinion of the brand, know that the breakthrough for American cyclists in the TDF was supported by Serotta. The fact that there was no branding on the 7-11 frames does not connote a lack of build quality or business acumen at that time.

Cheers

[fuzzalow]

^ There is nothing much I disagree with in pbarry's great post about the brief, luminary history of Serotta in the pro peloton.

The marque will always occupy a special place for many of us as it was the time where we - as an American race team along with a specialty bike company from upstate New York, made our way onto the big stage in the sport we loved. Those 7/Eleven guys were there for each of us, and we for them, as cycling participants & fans. Racing for every North American that finally didn't have to turn ex-pat to get a shot at the big show (the hyperbole aimed not against Greg LeMond but more at the simplistic pride in cheering for our own home team on the European race circuit). It was shining, it was brief and it felt like it was over before it had begun.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-FnUASxQsG3Q/VM2jwCONKDI/AAAAAAAAAwk/Ra0_5Uw_UMM/s640/serotta88-02a.jpg

This 7/Eleven team photo cropped from a page of what Serotta called their bicycle catalog back in the late 1980's. It was a printed folder with pictures & text with the inserts for each bike description as printed pages to be contained therein - a landscape 8 1/2" x 11" printer paper cut into 1/3 pieces. That was what "Catalog" would suffice for coming from The Serotta Bicycle Company back in those days. No glitz, it was charming and endearing at the same time.

That was then, this is now.

All that happened, happened to the Serotta marque. Hidden away like a secret known only to insiders and those in the know. Those joyous races and victories did not become storied and embellished through the patina of countless races won & lost by Serotta bicycles. Races that could have and would have become the history of Serotta, a history that could stand on its own - without sidebar or asterisk to excuse or explain details or nuance as to Serotta's place in racing. It would have been self evident.

It is this failing that prevented the Serotta marque as the specialty bicycle builder in upstate New York for any opportunity to become Serotta the brand. That makes all the difference in the world as to how it could be positioned differently from where it truly sits today. Serotta is worthless as a brand because, in the volume driven attribute mandatory to its very definition, it had never become and ne'er shall be a "brand".

The sentiments in your post are well taken and they are valid to each of us as cycling enthusiasts. However, in the business world and to the average consumer, the story is nowhere near compelling enough to place any value whatsoever on the name Serotta. As an example and as illustrative to a real world challenge: place everything your post has said within the context of either:
a presentation to your management committee as the pitch to secure a $50,000 purchase of the Serotta naming rights as a corporate asset, or
a strategic marketing outline as to how best to deploy the Serotta brand into a specialty retail marketplace for the market position and sales of a line of bicycles to some segment of the bicycle buying public

There are many weaknesses to your argument that will require shoring up to be relevant to anyone who is not predisposed favorably to the brand or has favorable prior knowledge of the brand. And in this exercise those conditions make it a bad investment or a failed marketing campaign atop a prior bad investment, respectively.

I do not hate on the marque. But neither am I any part of the myriad of mismanagement and mistakes burdened to this company over the decades of its existence. I am perfectly fine with seeing it for what it is and for what it has become. And I have fond remembrances of what it once was with no regrets.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-EcTgblVn_Wo/VMxQJh3vFQI/AAAAAAAAAwU/wz8ulBbKSEI/s640/DSC00046.JPG

Bought new from Roy's Sheepshead Cyclery in Brooklyn, NY (natch!). The hidden secret for those in the know was never seen on the team race bikes and is visible only here on the chainstay for the consumer-model bike. This was among the finest of rides to be found anywhere in the world during that time. The frame still brings to me a smile, even if wistfully.

[oldpotatoe]

[Emphasis added above] AFAIK, there have been exactly TWO American frame COS who's bikes have been ridden in the TDF: Serotta and Merlin. Roland Della Santa might have done as well for GL's earlier efforts, not sure, but would not be surprised.

When Merlin built the Team Z bikes for the TDF, I brought up the question of having our brand on the frames. IIRC, it was into the high 6/low 7 $$ figures at that time, 24 years ago. Out of our league.. We built 'em, TK, (who worked with the DS to arrive a geo numbers for each rider), painted them with the Team Z logos. No one involved made any profit on the deal, but we were proud to be a part of a pro effort. TK has a good post somewhere on his site about finishing those frames.

Merlin did sponsor the U.S. based Subaru/Montgomery team. All pro riders received a road frame, and a TT frame. Guessing we built 40 units or so. There were $$ from M on top of that. Anyway, we were into that deal for low to mid six figures = Frames with our stickers, and a 4-5 inch logo-on-jersey. Sponsorship ain't cheap.

Serotta was a ground-breaker a few years before, with the first American made frames racing on the Continent. No doubt, their pockets were smaller than Merlin's were, yet neither could cough up the dough for labeling pro bikes. Murray and Huffy had enuf dough, so that's how the bikes were painted.

Those who were serious riders/racers back then knew who made the 7-11 bikes. No one with any miles in their legs believed Huffy or Murray made Alexi's or Davis' bikes.

Whatever your opinion of the brand, know that the breakthrough for American cyclists in the TDF was supported by Serotta. The fact that there was no branding on the 7-11 frames does not connote a lack of build quality or business acumen at that time.

Cheers

GT and Landshark(not branded as such but Hamsten's frames were by Slawda). Lotto GTs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr-BfVEUol

[zap]

If I'm not mistaken, there were a few Litespeed's as well. Not sure if Klein's were painted in ONCE yellow one year.

Speaking of which……Klein. On a smaller scale…….

[oldpotatoe]

If I'm not mistaken, there were a few Litespeed's as well. Not sure if Klein's were painted in ONCE yellow one year.

Speaking of which……Klein. On a smaller scale…….

Gerolsteiner used Klein frames.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/tech/2002/features/probikes/?id=gerol

[malcolm]

GT and Landshark(not branded as such but Hamsten's frames were by Slawda). Lotto GTs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr-BfVEUol

Yeah, I think Andy's giro bike was a slawata Landshark but I could be mistaken

[zap]

Gerolsteiner used Klein frames.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/tech/2002/features/probikes/?id=gerol

I remember those but I recall ONCE had special TdF hill climb 650 bikes made on year. Either Klein or Litepseed.

[pbarry]

Thanks, gents, I'd forgotten about Andy's Slawta rigs, and Klein, GT..

:beer:

[1centaur]

Tyler rode a Parlee branded as a Look, IIRC, and I thought LeMond rode a Calfee branded as something else.

[pbarry]

Tyler rode a Parlee branded as a Look, IIRC, and I thought LeMond rode a Calfee branded as something else.

Calfee built bikes for Team Z as well.

[bluesea]

Calfee built bikes for Team Z as well.


Yup, that was when Calfee was just a tiny ad in the classified section of Bicycling magazine.

[Rada]

What about Trek?

[pbarry]

What about Trek?

Geez, no one gives me a break. ;)

Responded to comments already, and now you bring up more Facts.. OCLV Treks, without a doubt, belong in the now 5 or 6 American brands in the TDF. :hello: