Well, Chris Horner has a rather healthy opinion of himself...

[FlashUNC]

Some of the more...interesting....quotes about his team Safeway-Airgas' Tour of California snub:

They’ve obviously done harm to the race by not bringing me.

We needed the invite and it wasn’t a sure thing, but when you’re putting on one of the biggest races in the US, you’d think you’d want the biggest US rider to go, so I figured it was a given.

And I think the fans will be disappointed not to have me there, so more than anything the organizers just let down the fans

Certainly isn't lacking in confidence. Or hubris, depending on how you look at it. This veers way into "Don't they know who I am???" territory.

http://pelotonmagazine.com/feedzone/horner-on-tour-of-california-snub-i-couldnt-believe-it/

[kramnnim]

Who?

[velomonkey]

Dear, Chris Horner.

Please leave already. There was a time your wit and humor were appreciated. No more. Say no more and just leave.

[firerescuefin]

Count me as someone that wanted him there. It was a reach bringing that team.

[bobswire]

Count me as someone that wanted him there. It was a reach bringing that team.

THIS, too bad. The team as well as Horner were hoping his name would get them to the big show. At this point it more about his age and health but I think he has a legitimate age discrimination suit (http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/age.cfm). :)

[abalone]

Dear, Chris Horner.

Please leave already. There was a time your wit and humor were appreciated. No more. Say no more and just leave.


I feel the same way. Chris was always like this. As an amateur he just rubbed people the wrong way with his less-than-humble entitled rich boy attitude. He's always been about the "don't you know who I am?".

[Jgrooms]

Is there another grand tour winner starting?

[FlashUNC]

Is there another grand tour winner starting?

Aren't they all going to the Giro this year instead? Froome, Quintana et al.

[ScottM]

I don't think anything Chris Horner said is not true. The Tour of California is a stage race and he is the best U.S. stage racer at this time. The general public does want to see the best U.S. stage racer and it does hurt the Tour of California to exclude the best U.S. stage racer.


Scott

[velomonkey]

I don't think anything Chris Horner said is not true. The Tour of California is a stage race and he is the best U.S. stage racer at this time. The general public does want to see the best U.S. stage racer and it does hurt the Tour of California to exclude the best U.S. stage racer.


Scott

Look at this way - now he knows how Landis & Hamilton feel.

I just never got into watching ToC.

[abalone]

I don't think anything Chris Horner said is not true. The Tour of California is a stage race and he is the best U.S. stage racer at this time. The general public does want to see the best U.S. stage racer and it does hurt the Tour of California to exclude the best U.S. stage racer.


Scott


No way. Chris says that he is the best. Not even close. Andrew Talansky, Teejay van Garderen, and a host of other young American riders have already surpassed Horner in recent years.

[Jgrooms]

Aren't they all going to the Giro this year instead? Froome, Quintana et al.


Honestly haven't looked at the team makeup for 2015, but I think he'd be only GT winner.

Has to be a big disappointment to go from Euro GT/GC, 2014 struggles, but hitting in the TdF, to continental startup, to snub.

[Jgrooms]

No way. Chris says that he is the best. Not even close. Andrew Talansky, Teejay van Garderen, and a host of other young American riders have already surpassed Horner in recent years.


Will Talansky & TvG be doing ToC? Just curious. None LA post noted?

[firerescuefin]

No way. Chris says that he is the best. Not even close. Andrew Talansky, Teejay van Garderen, and a host of other young American riders have already surpassed Horner in recent years.

"Not even close"....His Giro win wasn't 10 years ago. On a climbing course, he is still capable of thrashing your list of world beaters.

[abalone]

"Not even close"....His Giro win wasn't 10 years ago. On a climbing course, he is still capable of thrashing your list of world beaters.


His best racing is over and coming back from injury he hasn't done anything. He's not the best American rider, but he thinks he is.

[sitzmark]

I feel the same way. Chris was always like this. As an amateur he just rubbed people the wrong way with his less-than-humble entitled rich boy attitude. He's always been about the "don't you know who I am?".
Personally I like the way Chris "rubs people the wrong way". He just speaks his mind and always has - no sugarcoated BS when it comes to his opinions. If you've ever ridden or talked with him, you'd know he is far from stuck on himself. He works hard, is dedicated to cycling, and wants recognition solely for that. Chris hasn't been fairly recognized for his talent (IMO) throughout his career and loyally played support roles as he was asked, hoping to earn his day to lead. He had fleeting opportunities to do that in the recent past - some successful and some not.

He's right, there will be many who will be disappointed the Safeway team - and he in particular - won't be part of the mix. Is that a population the ToC thinks has financial value to the tour - appears not. At the end of the day money is the reason for all decisions.

[oldpotatoe]

No way. Chris says that he is the best. Not even close. Andrew Talansky, Teejay van Garderen, and a host of other young American riders have already surpassed Horner in recent years.

Define 'best', like maybe best fan draw and most interesting? Talansky and what'shisname take all the moisture out of your mouth just thinking about them. Walk without leaving footprints comes to mind. Horner is just more interesting and has won a grand tour, something the other 2 and the host of young US riders probably won't do.

[Jgrooms]

Define 'best', like maybe best fan draw and most interesting? Talansky and what'shisname take all the moisture out of your mouth just thinking about them. Walk without leaving footprints comes to mind. Horner is just more interesting and has won a grand tour, something the other 2 and the host of young US riders probably won't do.


Plus 1. Champion whiners to date. Time will tell.

[kgreene10]

I'm with Chris on this one.

[sandyrs]

He's the best *domestic* rider. Even Phil Gaimon thinks so.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

......................... he is still capable of thrashing your list of world beaters.

And every single person that posts here. I have a nicer bike(s), though.

[nooneline]

Horner had potential and might be good - certainly he's surprised some people even in his AARP years. However, he is a gamble in three dimensions: a performance gamble (nothing much since his injury, plus his age), a PR gamble (never know when the other shoe is going to drop about his past), and a team gamble (the rest of his team wouldn't add anything to the race).

All of that makes his exclusion seem pretty reasonable. Especially in favor of a team like SmartStop, which wasn't invited last year, and has both the RR National Champion and the NRC winner on it.

[oldpotatoe]

Horner had potential and might be good - certainly he's surprised some people even in his AARP years. However, he is a gamble in three dimensions: a performance gamble (nothing much since his injury, plus his age), a PR gamble (never know when the other shoe is going to drop about his past), and a team gamble (the rest of his team wouldn't add anything to the race).

All of that makes his exclusion seem pretty reasonable. Especially in favor of a team like SmartStop, which wasn't invited last year, and has both the RR National Champion and the NRC winner on it.

Off by 10 years.

He has much more draw than guys like T J VonComplainalot.

They need and want big crowds at any US stage race or they, like most, will go away. It's like appearance fee paid, they pooched it by not bringing Horner and his team.

Ask most who actually watch bike racing these two guy's names......then ask if they have 'heard' of Horner..

[bobswire]

Horner had potential and might be good - certainly he's surprised some people even in his AARP years. However, he is a gamble in three dimensions: a performance gamble (nothing much since his injury, plus his age), a PR gamble (never know when the other shoe is going to drop about his past), and a team gamble (the rest of his team wouldn't add anything to the race).

All of that makes his exclusion seem pretty reasonable. Especially in favor of a team like SmartStop, which wasn't invited last year, and has both the RR National Champion and the NRC winner on it.

Not that anyone would know who they are.:banana: Marcotte who? :)

[saab2000]

He should be there. Whether or not anyone likes it, he's still more relevant as a rider than many other US riders. They could have included him and he's a bigger draw than many others who will be on the start line.

This is a mistake by the organizers. I know that I will be less drawn to the results than I would have been with his absence.

[malbecman]

He's probably a bigger draw for us middle age and older dudes which I think the TOC would want as a target demographic. We tend to have deeper pockets and spend more than the younger crowd. (I know I certainly have more than when I was a callow youth). I like him and will miss his presence.

[abalone]

Define 'best', like maybe best fan draw and most interesting? Talansky and what'shisname take all the moisture out of your mouth just thinking about them. Walk without leaving footprints comes to mind. Horner is just more interesting and has won a grand tour, something the other 2 and the host of young US riders probably won't do.



Horner is old, he's coming off a big injury and lack of rssults last year. He's on the backside and on the way down at this point in his career, while VanComplainalot and Talansky are on the way up. And yes, Van Gargeren is a big crybaby complainer, but he is a young promising rider.

[FlashUNC]

Bluster aside, I wonder what role his very lengthy injury history played in this decision. If he's injured and can't race -- a very distinct possibility with Horner, especially approaching his mid-40s now -- I don't know what they'd bring to the race. He said it himself, the team felt he was reason enough to qualify.

Well, if I'm an organizer, and a team's relevance in my race depends entirely on one oft-injured, mid-40s guy who hasn't raced seriously in over a year (through no fault of his own to be fair, not like he wanted to get hit by that truck), I can see the logic behind the exclusion. As others have pointed out, there are other, deeper domestic teams that may be more worthy of that spot, reputation or no. (This even puts aside that other cloud that hangs over him...)

Just seems like a calculated risk that's blown up for Safeway-Airgas. Let's get Horner and we're totally going to get a ToC invite. Sure, we've never done anything else or have any other even domestic riders of note, but he'll carry us to the biggest US races.

[saab2000]

Six months ago he finished 17th in the Tour de France. This would be a career highlight for many riders and would get many riders invited to ride the ToC.

I know it's not a great result but it's not horrible either, especially in light of the circumstances of his injuries.

It's possible that they weren't invited because of the weakness of his team, many of which might not even be able to finish the race. That's what happened to Floyd Landis right before he called it quits. The organizers said they would have invited him but they weren't interested in having only Floyd finish the race.

As to his age, it's irrelevant. It's not his job to bow out gracefully. It's the others' job to knock him off. As far as I can see, they haven't really done that yet.

[firerescuefin]

For a guy that had minimal prep and battled a bad crash right before the season really got going...he out performed his WC protected rider Costa at the Tour. That injury didn't seem to be a deal killer to me.

He's a draw...would have liked to have seen him there. If he was targeting it, he could have been right there.

[nooneline]

you could also wonder about the effect of Airgas-Safeway on it. Sure, they have horner now, but in some recent years they weren't even giving bikes to all of their riders. some pro team. do they really get an invite to the TOC just because they brought on a sponsor to afford one marquee rider?

[rain dogs]

"Not even close"....His Giro win wasn't 10 years ago. On a climbing course, he is still capable of thrashing your list of world beaters.

Horner won the '13 Vuelta, not the Giro.

[sitzmark]

ToC is in a unique position to decide Horner's future and the future of Airgas-Safeway. Chris doesn't have much time left - maybe none - but without a "world stage" to test himself against he'll fall farther back, probably irreversibly.

The reason CH is at Safeway is to jumpstart a team by giving them the opportunity to compete and be recognized at a higher level. It's a gamble that they show strong, but what's the downside to ToC? The tour had 20 teams last year - eighteen this year. Unless the team is a danger to the peloton in high density sections, so what if the team isn't a top finisher in the tour. You'd think the ToC would go a little out of their way to give a "hometown" team (that made major commitments to the ToC) a shot.

Wouldn't a number of World Tour teams be embarrassed if CH was to win or dominate stages of the 2015 ToC? That would be enough to make me watch. :)

[firerescuefin]

Horner won the '13 Vuelta, not the Giro.

I knew what I meant :help:

Thanks for the correction.

[berserk87]

If you had to review, via blind resume, the riders to be selected to TofC, how many applicants could count a grand tour victory as an achievement?

And if you looked at the fact that it was only 2 years ago, it would also get your attention. Horner's resume would be in your "Yes" pile.

He has had some of his best years late in his career, but has been sidelined by injury for much of it. We never got to see him at his potential best.

Injuries and age have made him a risky proposition for elite teams to sign for any kind of money.

The other factor is the team itself - I know nothing about his current team. Maybe that was a factor in the decision by TofC?

[carpediemracing]

Having heard some stories about how the smaller pro teams get "invited" to races like ToCA I wonder if they simply didn't ante up a fee. The number I heard regarding a different team in a past year was $500k (the team couldn't pay it and didn't go - it was close to the team's entire annual budget). If the team already stretched to step up their game they may have been unpleasantly surprised to have been hit with such a demand. The reasoning for that $500k fee (and maybe it applied now) was "well if your sponsor wants exposure in the biggest race in the US then it's not a lot of money, they should be able to cover it".

I've also seen the other side, where a smaller (UCI level) race will pay a fee for a smaller pro team to race. The number I saw on that side was $18k for I think a 6 rider team, and this was for a number of teams, not just one.

Whenever a bigger team or one with a significant rider doesn't get invited I wonder if the economics of race promotion played a part in the process.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . he's capable, and his presence would have enlivened the race. On any given day he could have won a stage during this year's ToC. He's also a source of pride to old farts like me and, I am guessing here, to many other old farts like me.

Is he a bit, uh, "outspoken?" Well, yeah. but any racer at his level is likely to have a healthy opinion of himself. To me that belief in oneself is part and parcel of being a winning athlete.

He is correct that his presence would have made it a more interesting race, and it's a shame he won't be there.

BBD

[pdmtong]

I wonder what the back room discussions with Safeway were like? California based corporate giant snubbed in is own backyard

[jlwdm]

Not a big deal. Horner could not get a spot on a top team and his team is weak.

17th in the Tour last year mean's nothing. That low down other strategies are involved. Like taking it easy one day and going for a break the next.

The TOC is a minor league race that no one cares that much about - except a few Americans.

Jeff

[Bruce K]

And the Safeway discussion may be the most important part of this.

If cycling is to rejuvenate the interest of outside sponsors, other than some fatcats spending money as an ego boost, the promoters should pay some attention to grooming/schmoozing these sponsors.

Pro cycling (in my opinion) cannot survive on industry money alone but if companies like Safeway don't see any benefit/marketing value they will not jump in or return.

Horner is a past champion, an additional "name" and a crowd favorite and he is on a team with a new non-cycling sponsor.

Safeway should have been there. Purely from a potential long-term benefit to the sport idea.

BK

[John H.]

I am pretty sure that I called this out on an earlier post.
A US domestic team will not get an invite based on having a strong rider or even a decent team.
To get an invite to Cali, Utah, or Pro Challenge- their team needs to become a "sponsor" for the race. This costs around 150k per race.
Same thing happened to Smartstop last year (until they got the message). And Smartstop was winning many domestic races.

[malcolm]

Off by 10 years.

He has much more draw than guys like T J VonComplainalot.

They need and want big crowds at any US stage race or they, like most, will go away. It's like appearance fee paid, they pooched it by not bringing Horner and his team.

Ask most who actually watch bike racing these two guy's names......then ask if they have 'heard' of Horner..

TJ Von Complain A Lot, now that's funny and true.

[nooneline]

Having heard some stories about how the smaller pro teams get "invited" to races like ToCA I wonder if they simply didn't ante up a fee. The number I heard regarding a different team in a past year was $500k (the team couldn't pay it and didn't go - it was close to the team's entire annual budget). If the team already stretched to step up their game they may have been unpleasantly surprised to have been hit with such a demand. The reasoning for that $500k fee (and maybe it applied now) was "well if your sponsor wants exposure in the biggest race in the US then it's not a lot of money, they should be able to cover it".

I've also seen the other side, where a smaller (UCI level) race will pay a fee for a smaller pro team to race. The number I saw on that side was $18k for I think a 6 rider team, and this was for a number of teams, not just one.

Whenever a bigger team or one with a significant rider doesn't get invited I wonder if the economics of race promotion played a part in the process.

There's some talk about both "sponsor activation" and "concierge fees." I've heard it's down a bit closer to $20k for TOC, not $500k.

To be a UCI race, a race has to provide a number of services to teams. It sounds like the rough formula for that is more or less to require teams to pay in order to race (in the most extortion-sounding version). Slightly euphamized, it's requiring some form of increased level of sponsor involvement from teams in order to cover the costs of the race. If they blew all their sponsor money on signing Horner - remember, he's always had some aspirational salary requirements, and Airgas hasn't even been able to provide consistent gear to its 'professional' team members - then they've got nothing left for the way the game is played.

[Russian bear]

Being on Airgas Safeway, ToC is the only high profile domestic race Horner had the chance of going to. Maybe they'll get a Utah invite.

[sitzmark]

Not a big deal. Horner could not get a spot on a top team and his team is weak.

17th in the Tour last year mean's nothing. That low down other strategies are involved. Like taking it easy one day and going for a break the next.

The TOC is a minor league race that no one cares that much about - except a few Americans.

Jeff

Even fewer now possibly....

[JStonebarger]

No big deal, since I'm no one's target audience, but Horner out means I've lost what little interest I could muster for the ToC.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

Well, I for one will be happy to see him race in San Dimas and Redlands locally against some up-and-coming young kids. Wouldn't have happened if he was on the Pro Tour.

[thwart]

No big deal, since I'm no one's target audience, but Horner out means I've lost what little interest I could muster for the ToC.
My thoughts exactly.

Previous ToC winner (IIRC), recent Grand Tour winner... no invitation?

Big PR blunder, IMO.

[beeatnik]

Horner had potential and might be good - certainly he's surprised some people even in his AARP years. However, he is a gamble in three dimensions: a performance gamble (nothing much since his injury, plus his age), a PR gamble (never know when the other shoe is going to drop about his past), and a team gamble (the rest of his team wouldn't add anything to the race).

All of that makes his exclusion seem pretty reasonable. Especially in favor of a team like SmartStop, which wasn't invited last year, and has both the RR National Champion and the NRC winner on it.

Some interesting contrasts between the RR Nat Champion and Chris Horner

SmartStop's, Eric Marcotte is almost as old as Horner and can't climb a driveway. Guy is pretty likable, as well, but probably hasn't had a Big Mac since he was 12.

http://vimeo.com/81173752

Both cats can grow a nice beard :hello:

[BumbleBeeDave]

No big deal, since I'm no one's target audience, but Horner out means I've lost what little interest I could muster for the ToC.

At ToC time there will be plenty else going on to hold my attention in pro cycling. I find it hard to care if this American company sponsoring an American race can't have the most popular--and maybe best--American riders there.

BBD

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

Safeway-Airgas cares less about Horner, Cycling or the TofC. They care about advertising their brand, especially Safeway. How many times would we have seen Safeway's logo or heard their name from one of the announcers on TV? And with the non invite, how likely will they be a sponsor after this season? Horner is a lightning rod, for sure, but he sparks interest, that and sponsors in for the long haul both are something the sport definitely needs, in all of our opinions, no?

[shovelhd]

Eric Marcotte is a chiropractor who races NCC criteriums in his spare time. Great guy, but not in the same league as Horner.

[krhea]

And the Safeway discussion may be the most important part of this.

If cycling is to rejuvenate the interest of outside sponsors, other than some fatcats spending money as an ego boost, the promoters should pay some attention to grooming/schmoozing these sponsors.

Pro cycling (in my opinion) cannot survive on industry money alone but if companies like Safeway don't see any benefit/marketing value they will not jump in or return.

Horner is a past champion, an additional "name" and a crowd favorite and he is on a team with a new non-cycling sponsor.

Safeway should have been there. Purely from a potential long-term benefit to the sport idea.

BK

"BK", you make the best point of all the posts. As a person who, in one of his past "lives" made the "to sponsor or not to sponsor" decisions for MAJOR events as well as athletes I couldn't agree more with your assessment from a business standpoint.
This TOC decision hurts US Cycling in a big way and it's already sent "rumbles" through the sponsorship grapevine. At some point race organizers need to understand that without sponsors, you don't have races which means teams don't need riders OR that teams can pay riders "minimum wage" and that's it. It doesn't matter if you or I like Horner or not, if we think he deserves to ride or not, if he or he and his team could win or even "show" or not. What matters from a biz standpoint is that Horner has a name in US cycling and he IS a draw. That's a fact. Perhaps not to the jaded know it all's on bike forums but to the folks on the sidelines of the sport who only know one or two names and those names aren't TJ or Andrew and certainly not the national RR or TT champions, it's Chris Horner, Californian all-american kid, former TOC champion and gran tour winner. Again, like him or not, he's good in front of the camera, knows his way around an interview and is a great California "billboard".

This will certainly bite the TOC in the butt and cause serious damage to the future of major cycling sponsors for US teams. Keep in mind, actions such as this don't just impact cycling sponsorships at the top level, it certainly trickles down to the regional and local levels as well.

I would love to be in the Safeway marketing/PR meetings since this decision came out...wow.

[FlashUNC]

How much money are Safeway and Airgas really putting into this if the team doesn't even have a website?

It isn't as if Safeway has gone all-in with a WorldTour team. As someone else mentioned, these guys didn't even supply bikes to some of their racers last year.

Maybe they threw some bucks at a big name, but I don't see the same infrastructure that even established domestic teams have. Can Safeway really be in that deep on this?

[sitzmark]

How much money are Safeway and Airgas really putting into this if the team doesn't even have a website?

It isn't as if Safeway has gone all-in with a WorldTour team. As someone else mentioned, these guys didn't even supply bikes to some of their racers last year.

Maybe they threw some bucks at a big name, but I don't see the same infrastructure that even established domestic teams have. Can Safeway really be in that deep on this?

Could be Safeway is (was) waiting for an assessment of the ToC opportunity (and results) before committing significant resources. Chicken and egg thing. Too bad whatever the reason.

[Bruce K]

There is a reason Tide, M&Ms, Goody's Headache Powder, and some mattress seller in Denver sponsor NASCAR cars

Exposure and marketing

Marketing doesn't really work without exposure

If sponsors don't see exposure in cycling they will look for other places for their logos

It could be skateboards or bass fisherman but they will find a place for their money and logo

Cycling needs to figure out how to get back to the days where virtually none of the teams carried industry names as primary sponsors

BK

[pdmtong]

I wonder what the back room discussions with Safeway were like? California based corporate giant snubbed in is own backyard

And the Safeway discussion may be the most important part of this.

If cycling is to rejuvenate the interest of outside sponsors, other than some fatcats spending money as an ego boost, the promoters should pay some attention to grooming/schmoozing these sponsors.

Pro cycling (in my opinion) cannot survive on industry money alone but if companies like Safeway don't see any benefit/marketing value they will not jump in or return.

Horner is a past champion, an additional "name" and a crowd favorite and he is on a team with a new non-cycling sponsor.

Safeway should have been there. Purely from a potential long-term benefit to the sport idea.

BK

Exactly. Look at the past race stages...the lead in to the queen Mt Diablo stage passes within 5 miles of Safeway HQ. ToC idiots! Its hard enough to get sponsors in general, and now you are snubbing a corporate giant who has actually fielded a team? And, a team with a past GT winner on it? If safeway-airgas was not competent to race the ToC, at least extend the invite and let them decline.

[John H.]

Safeway just give money to the team-
It is up to the team owner to figure out how to get into these races (since they are an objective of theirs).

[Hawker]

Chris would have the number one reason I would have tuned in. I'll still watch but not with the same excitement and maybe not even every stage.

Dumb move if you ask me.

[Hawker]

And the Safeway discussion may be the most important part of this.

If cycling is to rejuvenate the interest of outside sponsors, other than some fatcats spending money as an ego boost, the promoters should pay some attention to grooming/schmoozing these sponsors.

Pro cycling (in my opinion) cannot survive on industry money alone but if companies like Safeway don't see any benefit/marketing value they will not jump in or return.

Horner is a past champion, an additional "name" and a crowd favorite and he is on a team with a new non-cycling sponsor.

Safeway should have been there. Purely from a potential long-term benefit to the sport idea.

BK

What he said.

[bobswire]

I let them know how I felt here> https://www.facebook.com/AmgenTourofCalifornia/photos/a.162436642427.121576.150147152427/10152700006822428/?type=1&fref=nf


Without Chris Horner the ToC is hardly the most competitive field ever. He may be old but still one of the top Climbers in the world. Best American name recognition. The only active American GT winner. Very popular rider in California,even casual fans know of and like Chris. ToC dropped the ball big time not having his team for this edition of the ToC.

[Walter]

Getting in to the TOC for smaller teams is a matter of how much money they can pay. It is really not about sporting considerations. The prior posts about "activation fees" are dead on. You sponsor a stage, part of a start, etc. (all indirect ways to put money in the promoter's pocket),and you get in.

I have spoken with some team personnel who have discussed the talks to get into this race...it is all about the money.

The reality is that Horner draws fans; like him or not, like the way he talks or not. Horner is a winner on the world stage. Yes, he is now old, but he still goes uphill fast and still draws a crowd. Putting Safeway on the TV during the race just might also open some eyes for other non-bike industry corporations to step up.

We will never get to know because the TOC wants money, right now, for itself.

[Black Dog]

Whoa whoa, since when did the sport of professional cycling become a business? :rolleyes:

[old fat man]

Can we come back to this thread and applaud the ToC in a few months when Horner is unable to compete due to injury or other controversy and the long running domestic teams that are getting their first shot make positive noise? Enough with these doping era guys. This isn't and shouldn't be nascar. It's not about plunking down cash on one person. Buying one rider doesn't mean your team suddenly deserves an invite.

[malbecman]

Pretty good little comments section going on over there at FB with lots of people expressing their disappointment at no Chris Horner. I chimed in, thanks bobswire! Dogpile on if you want, folks, maybe we can make something happen!!! :banana:

I let them know how I felt here> https://www.facebook.com/AmgenTourofCalifornia/photos/a.162436642427.121576.150147152427/10152700006822428/?type=1&fref=nf


Without Chris Horner the ToC is hardly the most competitive field ever. He may be old but still one of the top Climbers in the world. Best American name recognition. The only active American GT winner. Very popular rider in California,even casual fans know of and like Chris. ToC dropped the ball big time not having his team for this edition of the ToC.

[54ny77]

Reunite all the ol' Postal guys as a domestic pro team.

Now that'd be interesting. Horner, Landis, Armstong, Hamilton, Hincapie, and so on....

:banana:

[mgm777]

Reunite all the ol' Postal guys as a domestic pro team.

Now that'd be interesting. Horner, Landis, Armstong, Hamilton, Hincapie, and so on....

:banana:

A cycling version of "The Expendables". :)

[bobswire]

Reunite all the ol' Postal guys as a domestic pro team.

Now that'd be interesting. Horner, Landis, Armstong, Hamilton, Hincapie, and so on....

:banana:

Horner was hardly part of that gang but I guess with some anyone who rode with LA are toxic. Get over it all the teams back then were dirty,old Horner was barely able to get a ride during Postals reign.

[54ny77]

Team Four Hours p/b Cialis.

[oldpotatoe]

And the Safeway discussion may be the most important part of this.

If cycling is to rejuvenate the interest of outside sponsors, other than some fatcats spending money as an ego boost, the promoters should pay some attention to grooming/schmoozing these sponsors.

Pro cycling (in my opinion) cannot survive on industry money alone but if companies like Safeway don't see any benefit/marketing value they will not jump in or return.

Horner is a past champion, an additional "name" and a crowd favorite and he is on a team with a new non-cycling sponsor.

Safeway should have been there. Purely from a potential long-term benefit to the sport idea.

BK

Of course. Grand Tour winners do all sorts of small, one day, crit type 'races' in Europe after they win the BIG ONE. Are paid to be there, to show their face, to rev up the crowds and please the sponsors.

All about $, and once again, US race promoters kinda don't get it. People will yell if they just saw Horner ONCE at the start line. Go look at some interviews with Horner and some 'others'(yawn)...it's about $.

[earlfoss]

Chris should have been there, plain and simple. The rest of his team would probably have a really difficult time even finishing the first stage. He's a gem but the rest of his squad are pretty green.

[Hawker]

I have sent my opinions to TOC via Facebook as well.