Lance Armstrong BBC Interview

[bthornt]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/cycling/30981609

[fiamme red]

Here's the transcript: http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/cycling/30955902.

[Jgrooms]

Just wants to run a slow marathon!

Looks old. Lean face. Staying fit to slay some tri.

Over / under on page ct?

9

[professerr]

He's so reptilian.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

Isn't this the cue for CunegoFan to come wading in?



Separately, on the over/under, I'll say 8 pages, before things get personal and it gets locked down.

[charliedid]

Lance is the greatest...ever!

[charliedid]

It does look like you are right on time to attack other members, even when they have not even posted. Fcuk you. There. You got what you wanted. It can be locked down now.

+!

[Drmojo]

Where is the love...sniff sniff

[FastforaSlowGuy]

It does look like you are right on time to attack other members, even when they have not even posted. Fcuk you. There. You got what you wanted. It can be locked down now.

Slow down, tiger. Nobody is attacking you. I simply observed that you tend to weigh in on page 1 of any thread that has "Lance" in the title. I'm not sure how one can possibly take that as a personal attack, so I'm going to assume this was just a misunderstanding. The thought I had about people making things personal and the thread getting locked down was entirely separate, and hence it was separated into its own paragraph.

[abalone]

There has been a lot of forum posts and links lately, not just this forum but others with the same type of Armstrong PR propaganda. Is this part of the rebranding? We all know that Armstrong regularly employs an Internet PR firm to shape the narrative of his career and work.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

There has been a lot of forum posts and links lately, not just this forum but others with the same type of Armstrong PR propaganda. Is this part of the rebranding? We all know that Armstrong regularly employs an Internet PR firm to shape the narrative of his career and work.

I heard he did a lot of that back in the day. Does he still? Does he have the cash for it? I'd imagine the machine has been dialed back some, no?

Honest question, because I'm assuming Lance Inc. has seen reduced revenues these past couple years.

[sc53]

Discuss (or not) all you want, but avoid profanity. Thank you.

[Drmojo]

Let it rest
Doubt LA has cred anywhere to do PR or "re-branding"
He is as dead as Coppi

[IJWS]

Well....my fears/hopes/reservations about Lance running for public office have now been completely alleviated. Poor guy, this is the worst communication I've seen from the man. Oh well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5magAtuOaI

[ceolwulf]

Well I guess there was already a Shimano/Campy thread going?

[abalone]

I heard he did a lot of that back in the day. Does he still? Does he have the cash for it? I'd imagine the machine has been dialed back some, no?

Honest question, because I'm assuming Lance Inc. has seen reduced revenues these past couple years.


Dialed it back? Hardly. The attorneys are part of the entire narrative process. The questions of that interview, the rehearsed answers. Hell. The interview was even recorded at Mellow Johnnys. All lies. No integrity. Not genuine. And still as deceitful as always. That's Armstrong.

[Jgrooms]

Let it rest

Doubt LA has cred anywhere to do PR or "re-branding"

He is as dead as Coppi


Got the interview w BBC, so there's bit of life left in the ringleader of the "most sophisticated" sports doping program ever.

Just don't count the soviets? Remember them? Oh thats ancient stuff.

Anyway, just a "slow marathon" for the poor fella?

[oldpotatoe]

Latest Rouleur, number 51, has part 1 of a 2 parter about LA-SH. Good interview. He tries to BS but alas..cannot.

[ceolwulf]

Latest Rouleur, number 51, has part 1 of a 2 parter about LA-SH. Good interview. He tries to BS but alas..cannot.


I was kind of dreading it but it was much more interesting than I expected.

[rwsaunders]

Don't fall for it folks...LA is just trying to stall the Patriots thread. :cool:

[jr59]

Don't fall for it folks...LA is just trying to stall the Patriots thread. :cool:

and doing a good job of it

[charliedid]

I read that Lance regularly under inflated the tyres of his closest competitors.

It's true.

[abalone]

I read that Lance regularly under inflated the tyres of his closest competitors.

It's true.


No, but it's rumored that he did, in fact, try to hook up with Tyler's ex-wife Haven.

[mg2ride]

No, but it's rumored that he did, in fact, try to hook up with Tyler's ex-wife Haven.

Wouldn't surprise me at all. It has been rumored in the inner circle that LA's "relationship" with Frankie's wife is really where the hostility comes from.

Power is nature's greatest aphrodisiac!

[pdmtong]

Isn't this the cue for CunegoFan to come wading in?

I'll say 8 pages, before things get personal and it gets locked down.

Slow down, tiger. Nobody is attacking you. I simply observed that you tend to weigh in on page 1 of any thread that has "Lance" in the title. I'm not sure how one can possibly take that as a personal attack, so I'm going to assume this was just a misunderstanding. The thought I had about people making things personal and the thread getting locked down was entirely separate, and hence it was separated into its own paragraph.

Fwiw yes grammatically I see the paragraph separation but that's not how it reads to me It looks like one thought with cunegofan and things get personal in that same thought.

Yes I see it your way too but here is the sometimes ambiguity of a typed reply

[FastforaSlowGuy]

Happy to edit for clarity.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gummee]

Got the interview w BBC, so there's bit of life left in the ringleader of the "most sophisticated" sports doping program ever.

Just don't count the soviets? Remember them? Oh thats ancient stuff.

Anyway, just a "slow marathon" for the poor fella?

...or the chinese...

...or the east germans...

...or...

I guess its still winter, huh? We've hashed this out more'n a few times. The people on the 'sides' aren't changing their minds.

M

[paulh]

But... but.... but Lemond is a whiner. What about that?

[Jgrooms]

But... but.... but Lemond is a whiner. What about that?


He will certainly be asked for a comment on BBC interview. Expect tomorrow.

I'm going with "LA wasn't even top 20 w/o dope and cancer? Hell I got shot. See look at my chest..."

[laupsi]

He will certainly be asked for a comment on BBC interview. Expect tomorrow.

I'm going with "LA wasn't even top 20 w/o dope and cancer? Hell I got shot. See look at my chest..."

Sorry, but that's funny!

[paulh]

But..... but ......but ..... but Lemond....but but.... Cunego, grooms..but..but.but

[pbarry]

No LA fan-boy here, but it looks like he's making baby steps. The contrition almost sounds genuine. Whether through PR coaching, meditation, or golf, looks like he's trying hard to make amends and do his best to be a good person. No harm in that since we're all works in progress.

[Jgrooms]

But..... but ......but ..... but Lemond....but but.... Cunego, grooms..but..but.but


You forgot Betsy and I can't believe Lance would hit that. I've really lost hope now.

Betsy: "don't want to hear the cancer schtick, ya know the doping caused it and anyway , he's just mean..."

Unlike Greg though, who will have a legit news outlet ask for a quote, Betsy will be doing the call in circuit.

[pbarry]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CunegoFan View Post
It does look like you are right on time to attack other members, even when they have not even posted. Fcuk you. There. You got what you wanted. It can be locked down now.


+!

Got clarification from a mod. NVM.

[BumbleBeeDave]

He keeps alluding to the excuse that everybody was doing it and describing himself as "getting sideways" with Lemond . . . Geez. He still doesn't grasp--or refuses to admit--that it was his abominable mistreatment of so many people--not JUST his doping--that has put him in a special class by himself when it comes to penalties.

Of course this also brings up the question for me again of what exactly he WOULD need to do to totally convince me that he really IS sorry and really IS repentant. So far I don't have a good answer to that.

BBD

[pbarry]

He keeps alluding to the excuse that everybody was doing it and describing himself as "getting sideways" with Lemond . . . Geez. He still doesn't grasp--or refuses to admit--that it was his abominable mistreatment of so many people--not JUST his doping--that has put him in a special class by himself when it comes to penalties.

Of course this also brings up the question for me again of what exactly he WOULD need to do to totally convince me that he really IS sorry and really IS repentant. So far I don't have a good answer to that.

BBD

[Emphasis added above] Well done, BBD. :beer:

OTOH, He does seem to acknowledge that his behavior, not the doping, is what made his current situation what it is. I'll give him that, however genuine, or lacking veracity, his comments are..

[abalone]

He keeps alluding to the excuse that everybody was doing it and describing himself as "getting sideways" with Lemond . . . Geez. He still doesn't grasp--or refuses to admit--that it was his abominable mistreatment of so many people--not JUST his doping--that has put him in a special class by himself when it comes to penalties.

Of course this also brings up the question for me again of what exactly he WOULD need to do to totally convince me that he really IS sorry and really IS repentant. So far I don't have a good answer to that.

BBD


He's merely just trying to cast doubt on the entire peloton during the time he was riding. He's only do so to show that he "did what others did" and still won fair and square.

Lance is a tool. He was never the rider who was capable of winning without drugs. Now, that he cheated and won he wants to say that every single rider did as well. No. He can't even name every single pro rider in those Tours. He doesn't know every single rider in those Tours. And he couldn't beat every single rider in those Tours. EPO and Dr. Ferrari, along with lieing, cheating, and stealing those wins show what he really is.

He definitely isn't a winner, let alone a champion. He ruined people's businesses, careers, a job prospects of anyone that crossed him. He sued innocent people while amassing a huge fortune with the millions and endorsements he had gotten. He is a scumbag. Period. Nothing more.

[Peter B]

[Emphasis added above] Well done, BBD. :beer:

OTOH, He does seem to acknowledge that his behavior, not the doping, is what made his current situation what it is. I'll give him that, however genuine, or lacking veracity, his comments are..

His acknowledgment is always in the 3rd party. (http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/usweekly/article/Lance-Armstrong-on-Doping-in-the-1990s-I-d-6041262.php) When (if) Lance can genuinely change the 'he' to 'I' then perhaps he'll be starting to get it. :butt:

One thing Armstrong would do differently? "What I would want to do is, I would want to change the man that did those things," the athlete told Roan. "Maybe not the decision, but the way he acted -- the way he treated other people, the way he just couldn't stop fighting. It's great to fight in training, it's great to fight in the race. You don't need to get in a press conference or an interview or a personal interaction and fight. That's the man that really needed to change and can never come back."

[rustychisel]

His acknowledgment is always in the 3rd party. (http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/usweekly/article/Lance-Armstrong-on-Doping-in-the-1990s-I-d-6041262.php) When (if) Lance can genuinely change the 'he' to 'I' then perhaps he'll be starting to get it. :butt:
[/I]


Yep, absolutely this. He practises deflection onto third person, just as always.
See, toward the end when he's asked about integrity. The eyes go sideways and he then deflects his answer back to what is essentially 'the whole peloton did it".

[Jgrooms]

He's merely just trying to cast doubt on the entire peloton during the time he was riding. He's only do so to show that he "did what others did" and still won fair and square.



Lance is a tool. He was never the rider who was capable of winning without drugs. Now, that he cheated and won he wants to say that every single rider did as well. No. He can't even name every single pro rider in those Tours. He doesn't know every single rider in those Tours. And he couldn't beat every single rider in those Tours. EPO and Dr. Ferrari, along with lieing, cheating, and stealing those wins show what he really is.



He definitely isn't a winner, let alone a champion. He ruined people's businesses, careers, a job prospects of anyone that crossed him. He sued innocent people while amassing a huge fortune with the millions and endorsements he had gotten. He is a scumbag. Period. Nothing more.


Para 1: anyone with an understanding of the sport from early 90s on doesn't need LA to "cast doubt." Or you buying the most sophisticated dope prog ever?

Para 2: drugs do not make a mule into a Secretariat. When the UCI fills in the blanks for those seven, you'll have your day. But that's never going to happen. When we are old & gray, or most of us gone, LA will go back in the record books with an asterisk. The next gen & the one after that won't leave it blank. Bank on it.

Para 3: yep. One bad dude, but don't let it cloud the facts regarding 1 & 2.

[Jgrooms]

[Emphasis added above] Well done, BBD. :beer:



OTOH, He does seem to acknowledge that his behavior, not the doping, is what made his current situation what it is. I'll give him that, however genuine, or lacking veracity, his comments are..


Show me the section on behavior in the Usada rule book.

[laupsi]

Para 1: anyone with an understanding of the sport from early 90s on doesn't need LA to "cast doubt." Or you buying the most sophisticated dope prog ever?

Para 2: drugs do not make a mule into a Secretariat. When the UCI fills in the blanks for those seven, you'll have your day. But that's never going to happen. When we are old & gray, or most of us gone, LA will go back in the record books with an asterisk. The next gen & the one after that won't leave it blank. Bank on it.

Para 3: yep. One bad dude, but don't let it cloud the facts regarding 1 & 2.

LA was a decent, slightly above average pro cyclist. Even more, he's a certified sociopath. This & nothing more. Oh and as to his enhanced ability while doping, please get educated!

[Jgrooms]

LA was a decent, slightly above average pro cyclist. Even more, he's a certified sociopath. This & nothing more. Oh and as to his enhanced ability while doping, please get educated!

Yes, if pro Tri at 16, US amateur, US Pro, and World Champion is slightly above ave. ;-) Must be one of those post 99 cycling experts?

Again, don't let your - take your pick- dislike, disgust, and/or righteousness get in the way of facts.

[oldpotatoe]

No LA fan-boy here, but it looks like he's making baby steps. The contrition almost sounds genuine. Whether through PR coaching, meditation, or golf, looks like he's trying hard to make amends and do his best to be a good person. No harm in that since we're all works in progress.

IN The Rouleur interview he states more than once that he's an arse-hole, but he seems to say that's the way he is, take it or leave it. He also says he has tried to 'apologize' to those he smeared, altho I doubt it was as sincere as most here would try to make it. Kinda like, "well if I gotta!!", type thing.

He is a control freak, what makes me wonder is how he keeps a group of fanboys/his 'crew' around him. Money? I don't know. I would think being identified as a LA insider would be toxic.

[Jgrooms]

IN The Rouleur interview he states more than once that he's an arse-hole, but he seems to say that's the way he is, take it or leave it. He also says he has tried to 'apologize' to those he smeared, altho I doubt it was as sincere as most here would try to make it. Kinda like, "well if I gotta!!", type thing.

He is a control freak, what makes me wonder is how he keeps a group of fanboys/his 'crew' around him. Money? I don't know. I would think being identified as a LA insider would be toxic.

Sounds like an interesting read. Does anyone find it curious that a rather obscure pub gets an interview? Wonder what the connection is?

Many of the traits that now seem to offend everyone were clearly on full display during the run. Traits many über 'successful' people in many hi pressure/worth endeavors have.

He's still a brand. If he didn't think so, and his crew, they wouldn't be taking these PR positioning steps-baby ones to start- would they? I dunno, if not that, then why not just go away? Why put yourself in a position to have squirm moments? And there were certainly a few in the BBC piece. All so you can run Boston?

[mcteague]

Yes, if pro Tri at 16, US amateur, US Pro, and World Champion is slightly above ave. ;-) Must be one of those post 99 cycling experts?

Again, don't let your - take your pick- dislike, disgust, and/or righteousness get in the way of facts.

Look at his record, in the pro ranks, prior to discovering the wonders of EPO. Could he even finish the Tour? He could do well in the occasional day race but that was it. And, even then he was on some drug program.

Tim

[abalone]

Look at his record, in the pro ranks, prior to discovering the wonders of EPO. Could he even finish the Tour? He could do well in the occasional day race but that was it. And, even then he was on some drug program.

Tim


Armstrong got the testicular cancer most likely as a direct result of his drug use earlier in his career prior to the 1996 Atlanta Olympics. Betsy Andreu testified that Armstrong admitted that he was on testosterone, HGH, and a slew of other banned PEDS. He just didn't know about training with the massive blood doping and EPO dosing regimens until he started working with Dr. Ferrari.

[oldpotatoe]

Sounds like an interesting read. Does anyone find it curious that a rather obscure pub gets an interview? Wonder what the connection is?

Many of the traits that now seem to offend everyone were clearly on full display during the run. Traits many über 'successful' people in many hi pressure/worth endeavors have.

He's still a brand. If he didn't think so, and his crew, they wouldn't be taking these PR positioning steps-baby ones to start- would they? I dunno, if not that, then why not just go away? Why put yourself in a position to have squirm moments? And there were certainly a few in the BBC piece. All so you can run Boston?

??Rather obscure??

Some 'uber' successful are as mean as LA, but not tied to being a liar and cheat. Some are but....

He doesn't just go away because that's not in his DNA. He wants to be in the public eye, one way or another.

He doesn't squirm, he feels even when he admits to his past, he feels he is in control of the situation.

[Jgrooms]

Armstrong got the testicular cancer most likely as a direct result of his drug use earlier in his career prior to the 1996 Atlanta Olympics. Betsy Andreu testified that Armstrong admitted that he was on testosterone, HGH, and a slew of other banned PEDS. He just didn't know about training with the massive blood doping and EPO dosing regimens until he started working with Dr. Ferrari.


Ok Betsy. Glad you found how to target cancer cause specific to individual cases. You'd better call the AMA & let them know because they haven't & you are well on your way to the Nobel for curing it.

[Jgrooms]

??Rather obscure??



Some 'uber' successful are as mean as LA, but not tied to being a liar and cheat. Some are but....



He doesn't just go away because that's not in his DNA. He wants to be in the public eye, one way or another.



He doesn't squirm, he feels even when he admits to his past, he feels he is in control of the situation.


Yes in terms of circ & reach its not his typical outlet.

True just making a point. He was no different as a winner, as he is now.

Ok so he just had to be seen. Then back to yours, whats the end game for the crew?

Oh I'd say there were 2-3 pretty good LA is uncomfortable moment in that piece.

[abalone]

Ok Betsy. Glad you found how to target cancer cause specific to individual cases. You'd better call the AMA & let them know because they haven't & you are well on your way to the Nobel for curing it.


You have a serious reading comprehension problem. Put down the megaphone and go back to elementary school. Reading 101. FYI, Betsy is a lot more credible than you or your boy Armstrong will ever be. And yes, she did testify that Armstrong admitted to being on testosterone, HGH, and other PEDS early in his career when Frankie was riding on Motorola prior to Armstrong being diagnosed with cancer.

[Jgrooms]

Look at his record, in the pro ranks, prior to discovering the wonders of EPO. Could he even finish the Tour? He could do well in the occasional day race but that was it. And, even then he was on some drug program.



Tim



Oh the couldn't finish the tour point. You don't need a shelf of old VHS (youtube) to do your homework, LA was a big motor, big guy targeting one days races & stages & riding the tour for a team without a GC contender.

Post cancer. Entirely different rider, team & goals. Again youtube it.

Occasional day race. Ha. Typical Tour 'fan' where the 'knowledge' starts and ends.

And lets get this straight. I'm not defending LA. Never have. However, the fact is this: with the exception of one, possibly two, every rider who stood on the podium with him for 7 has been nailed or implicated. If not, lobby the UCI to fill the vacated spots.

And every rider making the tour cut on the big budget teams going for GC was on the T, C, & EPO program. You might have got a pass on boosting.

If you weren't juiced you weren't making it to Paris for Zabel's Telekom leadout train. As just one example.

[oldpotatoe]

Yes in terms of circ & reach its not his typical outlet.

True just making a point. He was no different as a winner, as he is now.

Ok so he just had to be seen. Then back to yours, whats the end game for the crew?

Oh I'd say there were 2-3 pretty good LA is uncomfortable moment in that piece.

Beats me. He confuses me. He is vilified, rigthtly so, but still pokes his head up and says or does something. Then sits back down.

He wasn't really uncomfortable even with Oprah. He is still an actor. Who knows what goes on in that noggin, when he's alone. Doubt he's alone much tho. I think a lot of his crew do it because of the getting same notoriety as him, and the $. Some can say he is hurting $ wise, but not really.

Even Bernie Madoff was smug, as they led him to jail. I doubt anybody really knows LA, maybe his shrink, if he has one, which I doubt. He couldn't stand to lose control.

[Jgrooms]

You have a serious reading comprehension problem. Put down the megaphone and go back to elementary school. Reading 101. FYI, Betsy is a lot more credible than you or your boy Armstrong will ever be. And yes, she did testify that Armstrong admitted to being on testosterone, HGH, and other PEDS early in his career when Frankie was riding on Motorola prior to Armstrong being diagnosed with cancer.


Show me this link where doctors can now say this med or that med caused this cancer.

BA never said that a doc told LA you got cancer because of PED. That is part of her spin. I've watched her say it. Couched in the manner of this: don't feel sorry for LA, he probably gave himself cancer.

Ranks right up there with wasn't a top 20 rider wo PEDs as agenda.

LA had his agendas. Many! They have theirs. See them for what they are.

[laupsi]

Oh the couldn't finish the tour point. You don't need a shelf of old VHS (youtube) to do your homework, LA was a big motor, big guy targeting one days races & stages & riding the tour for a team without a GC contender.

Post cancer. Entirely different rider, team & goals. Again youtube it.

Occasional day race. Ha. Typical Tour 'fan' where the 'knowledge' starts and ends.

And lets get this straight. I'm not defending LA. Never have. However, the fact is this: with the exception of one, possibly two, every rider who stood on the podium with him for 7 has been nailed or implicated. If not, lobby the UCI to fill the vacated spots.

And every rider making the tour cut on the big budget teams going for GC was on the T, C, & EPO program. You might have got a pass on boosting.

If you weren't juiced you weren't making it to Paris for Zabel's Telekom leadout train. As just one example.

oh my gosh! okay this is a no win argument. LA did win prior to winning his 7 tours. my suspicion has always been he doped prior to just differently. (if you don't believe this you're making a huge assumption), yes he was a strong athlete, yes he was (is) determined, driven, etc... you cannot take that away from the guy. facts tell me all I need to know however. have your opinions, yes you can back them, but so can others who also deserve their opinions.

[Jgrooms]

Beats me. He confuses me. He is vilified, rigthtly so, but still pokes his head up and says or does something. Then sits back down.



He wasn't really uncomfortable even with Oprah. He is still an actor. Who knows what goes on in that noggin, when he's alone. Doubt he's alone much tho. I think a lot of his crew do it because of the getting same notoriety as him, and the $. Some can say he is hurting $ wise, but not really.



Even Bernie Madoff was smug, as they led him to jail. I doubt anybody really knows LA, maybe his shrink, if he has one, which I doubt. He couldn't stand to lose control.


Good points. Hey hurting is relative. He doesn't have a private jet.

Its all one of the most interesting sagas, not just in sports, of history.

Old news, but the comments on comeback. No comeback, no problem. Turns of fate!

[laupsi]

Beats me. He confuses me. He is vilified, rigthtly so, but still pokes his head up and says or does something. Then sits back down.

He wasn't really uncomfortable even with Oprah. He is still an actor. Who knows what goes on in that noggin, when he's alone. Doubt he's alone much tho. I think a lot of his crew do it because of the getting same notoriety as him, and the $. Some can say he is hurting $ wise, but not really.

Even Bernie Madoff was smug, as they led him to jail. I doubt anybody really knows LA, maybe his shrink, if he has one, which I doubt. He couldn't stand to lose control.

okay I'll say it again; SOCIOPATH. it's very simple, his behavior is text book SOCIOPATH. there's really nothing else to explain. btw, BM is also a SOCIOPATH.

[Jgrooms]

oh my gosh! okay this is a no win argument. LA did win prior to winning his 7 tours. my suspicion has always been he doped prior to just differently. (if you don't believe this you're making a huge assumption), yes he was a strong athlete, yes he was (is) determined, driven, etc... you cannot take that away from the guy. facts tell me all I need to know however. have your opinions, yes you can back them, but so can others who also deserve their opinions.


Ohhh my gossshh! News flash, LA was on PEDs prior to 99 Tour.

Your suspicions are confirmed. Now you don't have to confuse them w facts.

Winner winner chicken dinner laupsi.

[Jgrooms]

okay I'll say it again; SOCIOPATH. it's very simple, his behavior is text book SOCIOPATH. there's really nothing else to explain. btw, BM is also a SOCIOPATH.


Caps go good with the morning JOE!!!

We have money on 9. Your doing good!

[abalone]

Show me this link where doctors can now say this med or that med caused this cancer.

BA never said that a doc told LA you got cancer because of PED. That is part of her spin. I've watched her say it. Couched in the manner of this: don't feel sorry for LA, he probably gave himself cancer.

Ranks right up there with wasn't a top 20 rider wo PEDs as agenda.

LA had his agendas. Many! They have theirs. See them for what they are.



I never said that "this med or that med caused this cancer". I stated that Armstrong's cancer was most likely due to his drug use.. Reading 101.

Show me the link that shows the names of each and every single Tour de France competitor in those years Armstrong won the Tour, and show how each and every single one of those riders were doped, and doped as much as your boy Armstrong which you also claim. You are claiming that Armstrong didn't have a better and more sophisticated doping program and that all doping programs are equivalent.

[laupsi]

Caps go good with the morning JOE!!!

We have money on 9. Your doing good!

I give up, you win!

[oldpotatoe]

Good points. Hey hurting is relative. He doesn't have a private jet.

Its all one of the most interesting sagas, not just in sports, of history.

Old news, but the comments on comeback. No comeback, no problem. Turns of fate!

At least he's listening to his accountant.

He's got to be in the public eye one way or another. If he wanted to just run a marathon, there are tons where he could jog around and finish and nobody would even know he was there. BUT gotta be Boston. Gotta be Leadville.

Again I'll say it. Some in his crew hang around because they think he was screwed, some for the future and being a part of that, some for the $.

I wonder if he has any friends, ya know, good friends that just yak about whatever, the aspen's turning. Or is he always on the stage, is he always 'on'?

Donno. Very interesting combination. Success, failure, how he perceives it, how everybody else does. Been 2 years since Oprah and these threads still generate many pages.

Think the guy's a weasel but before Oprah, guy who worked for me, his brother drives a limo. Picked up LA at the airport, drove him to somebody's BIG house in Boulder, picked him up about 3 hours later-back to the airport. Chris(driver) yaked with him about bikes, told him about Vecchio's, said it sounded interesting. Said he may try to visit. Would I talk to him about bikes if he did? Sure I would. Would I find some stuff for him to sign? Yes again.

I would be in control in my shop, but about bikes, kinda neutral ground.

He never came in.

He's pretty short too, met him at the NAHBS in Portland.

[Jgrooms]

Ok, most likely, but not confirmed. Medical expert: Betsy A.

Right on cue. Here ya go. Seems pretty sophisticated to me:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/01/news/testimony-sheds-light-leinders-rabobanks-systematic-doping_359008

You can google and spin your legs up on the top 10 riders from 99-07. It should be part of your homework. However, it won't fit your usada propaganda worldview. I'd advise you don't take the red pill and stay away from Alice's rabbits.

[abalone]

Ok, most likely, but not confirmed. Medical expert: Betsy A.

Right on cue. Here ya go. Seems pretty sophisticated to me:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/01/news/testimony-sheds-light-leinders-rabobanks-systematic-doping_359008

You can google and spin your legs up on the top 10 riders from 99-07. It should be part of your homework. However, it won't fit your usada propaganda worldview. I'd advise you don't take the red pill and stay away from Alice's rabbits.



No. You are changing your story now. You didn't say that the top riders were doped. You stated that each and every single rider was doped, as your boy Armstrong has claimed to support this even playing field concept. You stated this was not an opinion, but fact. Now, show me the link to the names of each and every single rider of the Tour from those years that shows that they either tested positive for PEDS or admitted to taking PEDS.

You can't substantiate your claims. The majority of your posts are all about Armstrong. You rarely bother posting on other topics. Put the megaphone down. Your opinions are not factual.

[Jgrooms]

I give up, you win!


Too easy. I thought you'd hang in there until you got guttered in the crosswind. Mix some Red Bull in w your breakfast next time.

[laupsi]

Too easy. I thought you'd hang in there until you got guttered in the crosswind. Mix some Red Bull in w your breakfast next time.

I don't race Cat 5!

[Jgrooms]

No. You are changing your story now. You didn't say that the top riders were doped. You stated that each and every single rider was doped, as your boy Armstrong has claimed to support this even playing field concept. You stated this was not an opinion, but fact. Now, show me the link to the names of each and every single rider of the Tour from those years that shows that they either tested positive for PEDS or admitted to taking PEDS.



You can't substantiate your claims. The majority of your posts are all about Armstrong. You rarely bother posting on other topics. Put the megaphone down. Your opinions are not factual.




Wow! Honored that you'd analyze my post history.

I don't believe we have to review the doping history of every rider. Its sort of common sense, that if you wanted to make the team in support of a juiced GC rider going against other juiced teams, then you juiced or pack your bags.

Lets save some time w that. Everyone on Postal was juiced. Fact.

At some point one can only take so much historical revisionism spread thick with self righteous frosting.

No megaphone. He won. And his peers agree.

[abalone]

Wow! Honored that you'd analyze my post history.

I don't believe we have to review the doping history of every rider. Its sort of common sense, that if you wanted to make the team in support of a juiced GC rider going against other juiced teams, then you juiced or pack your bags.

Lets save some time w that. Everyone on Postal was juiced. Fact.

At some point one can only take so much historical revisionism spread thick with self righteous frosting.

No megaphone. He won. And his peers agree.


No. Your changing your story again. You didn't say that everyone on US Postal was doped. You said that each and every single competitor of all those Armstrong tours were doped. Not the top 10, not the top 20, every single rider. You said this wasn't an opinion, but fact. Now, provide a link to your so-called "fact".

[shovelhd]

Sounds like an interesting read. Does anyone find it curious that a rather obscure pub gets an interview? Wonder what the connection is?

It's textbook PR damage control. Pick your friendly outlet. Oprah is not exactly 60 Minutes. Obama chooses NBC News for his chats instead of Bill O'Reilly. Nothing wrong with this, just see it for what it is.

[shovelhd]

No. Your changing your story again. You didn't say that everyone on US Postal was doped. You said that each and every single competitor of all those Armstrong tours were doped. Not the top 10, not the top 20, every single rider. You said this wasn't an opinion, but fact. Now, provide a link to your so-called "fact".

There was some study done recently, and posted here, that concluded that 65% of the top ten Grand Tour finishers doped. That's not even close to everyone, even with a reasonable margin of error.

[Jgrooms]

No. Your changing your story again. You didn't say that everyone on US Postal was doped. You said that each and every single competitor of all those Armstrong tours were doped. Not the top 10, not the top 20, every single rider. You said this wasn't an opinion, but fact. Now, provide a link to your so-called "fact".


Well abalone, for someone who's fav is reading 101. I'm not Lance & didn't say everyone in all 7 TdF was on PEDs -in this thread or any other. Its, respectfully, a silly point as you know its the type that will always remain circumstantial.

Your premiss, clouded by Lance was mean, is that he was not a world class athlete wo PEDs.

I disagree and point to substantial evidence in the public domain that LA was far from the only player w PED enhancement. Level playing field, thus he won. His peers agree. That is my only point when boiled down.

You'll counter with the well worn "but yes LA's dope was better."

Nope. Its not that complicated. You take the T too boost recovery, but cycle off in competition cause its easy to pop. You take the C to mask the pain. You take the EPO & possibly boost depending on the yr/testing to get the H up to 50. They all had good doctors.

Next pitch. But LA was greasing UCI. Well read the Rabobank link. Seems some others felt immune? Most sophisticated crashes on some more rocks.

If you want to talk about level playing field, consider usada's approach. Again I don't give a rat how anyone 'feels', we have justice or we don't.

[Jgrooms]

There was some study done recently, and posted here, that concluded that 65% of the top ten Grand Tour finishers doped. That's not even close to everyone, even with a reasonable margin of error.


Well I'll roll w that. And the other 30% couldn't find a #2 pencil.

[abalone]

Well abalone, for someone who's fav is reading 101. I'm not Lance & didn't say everyone in all 7 TdF was on PEDs -in this thread or any other. Its, respectfully, a silly point as you know its the type that will always remain circumstantial.

Your premiss, clouded by Lance was mean, is that he was not a world class athlete wo PEDs.

I disagree and point to substantial evidence in the public domain that LA was far from the only player w PED enhancement. Level playing field, thus he won. His peers agree. That is my only point when boiled down.

You'll counter with the well worn "but yes LA's dope was better."

Nope. Its not that complicated. You take the T too boost recovery, but cycle off in competition cause its easy to pop. You take the C to mask the pain. You take the EPO & possibly boost depending on the yr/testing to get the H up to 50. They all had good doctors.

Next pitch. But LA was greasing UCI. Well read the Rabobank link. Seems some others felt immune? Most sophisticated crashes on some more rocks.

If you want to talk about level playing field, consider usada's approach. Again I don't give a rat how anyone 'feels', we have justice or we don't.


Again. You are changing your story. You have an opinion and your propaganda of all things Lance shows that you represent those opinions and pass them off as fact. So prove your so-called "facts" and put the megaphone down.

You said that each and every single rider was doped. Not only the top 10. Not only the top 20. You stated that every single rider of the Tour suring Armstrong's Tour years were doped. You even stated in other threads that you can't even become a pro team rider without doping. So prove it. Post a single link to support your claim that shows each and every single rider tested positive for PEDS or admitting taking PEDS.

[Jgrooms]

Again. You are changing your story. You have an opinion and your propaganda of all things Lance shows that you represent those opinions and pass them off as fact. So prove your so-called "facts" and put the megaphone down.



You said that each and every single rider was doped. Not only the top 10. Not only the top 20. You stated that every single rider of the Tour suring Armstrong's Tour years were doped. You even stated in other threads that you can't even become a pro team rider without doping. So prove it. Post a single link to support your claim that shows each and every single rider tested positive for PEDS or admitting taking PEDS.


You are entitled to your opinion, however, don't put words in my mouth as to "every tour rider doped". Ok?


You should go for a ride if you can brother. Here's my 5hr/10k vert prep including the dope. Rolling!

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/27/38b6c1ff872b05602aef3009bee6c194.jpg

[PQJ]

Level playing field, thus he won.


This has been rehashed ad nauseum and I'm sure you've seen the discussion, so I won't go there in detail. Suffice it to say, that the playing field wasn't level. Some people got more out of drugs than others. Some people were willing to push the pharmaceutical envelope more than others. Some people had far greater resources than others. We will never know, of course, but my opinion is that without the drugs and the organization, Armstrong would not have won 7. Maybe 1. Maybe none. And that, to me, is the biggest problem with drugs in sport. It bastardizes the competition to the point where you just don't know.

[cfox]

I never said that "this med or that med caused this cancer". I stated that Armstrong's cancer was most likely due to his drug use.. Reading 101.

Show me the link that shows the names of each and every single Tour de France competitor in those years Armstrong won the Tour, and show how each and every single one of those riders were doped, and doped as much as your boy Armstrong which you also claim. You are claiming that Armstrong didn't have a better and more sophisticated doping program and that all doping programs are equivalent.

Come on, man, be serious. Ullrich? Virenque? Pantani? Zulle?, Hamilton?, Vino? All confirmed dopers on big budget teams. There is no possible way for anyone to confirm to what degree any of these guys were doped and you know it. You can't just work backwards from the results and determine who doped "more" than whom. I've read every single tell-all doping book, and the one thing I took away from all of them was how unsophisticated these programs, including Lance's, were. It's laughable. EPO in the butter dish? Transfusions on the floor of the bus? Ullrich and Hamilton took two bags of blood during the tour, just like Lance.

Look, Lance is a douche supreme, but the guy was recognized as a freak by many people at an early age. Maybe on a non-doping playing field he would not have won the tour, but the guy won the WC road race at 21. He is an extremely talented athlete. It's ok to despise the guy for all the crappy things he did, but to just write off his talent is being blinded by your dislike.

[abalone]

You are entitled to your opinion, however, don't put words in my mouth as to "every tour rider doped". Ok?


You should go for a ride if you can brother. Here's my 5hr/10k vert prep including the dope. Rolling!



BS! You've stated that everybody was on PEDS. You said it, not me. So stop trying to change your story now about how the top 10 doped, or top 20, or this team or that team. You said everybody in all those Tours that Armstrong competed in doped. Everybody. So now, are you changing your definition of what everybody is? Are you now saying that everybody isn't really everybody?!?!

You post a lot in all these Armstrong threads. Like within minutes of a thread being posted about Armstrong you are right there with the usual propaganda. Now what? You are pulling the old nothing to see here go for a bike ride act? Please. :rolleyes:

[BumbleBeeDave]

Three words from the mods.

Knock. It. Off.

Interesting thread but you guys have it way close to the big padlock. Put the keyboard down, back away slowly, and go for a ride.

Thank. You.

BBD

[mg2ride]

BS! You've stated that everybody was on PEDS. You said it, not me. So stop trying to change your story now about how the top 10 doped, or top 20, or this team or that team. You said everybody in all those Tours that Armstrong competed in doped. Everybody. So now, are you changing your definition of what everybody is? Are you now saying that everybody isn't really everybody?!?!

You post a lot in all these Armstrong threads. Like within minutes of a thread being posted about Armstrong you are right there with the usual propaganda. Now what? You are pulling the old nothing to see here go for a bike ride act? Please. :rolleyes:

Do you have any point to make other than that someone on the internet said something that cannot be 100% substantiated with facts?

If you do, you are not doing a very god job at making it.

[shovelhd]

If you do, you are not doing a very god job at making it.

Can we please leave religion out of this thread? :)

[rides2slow]

Let's discuss something else. Lance's story and Lance aren't interesting anymore.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . and of course the headline is" Lance Armstrong:I'd Probably Dope Again." I could have guessed that's the aspect US media would grab onto. If Lance is trying to rehab himself this was not a good move to do it.

BBD

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2342837-lance-armstrong-speaks-out-on-doping-lifetime-ban-in-bbc-interview?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

[merlincustom1]

I reread the thread. Jgrooms says with the exception of one or two guys on the podium with LA during the Tour years, all were doped. Abalone reads the same thread and says Jgrooms said that every single guy who rode with LA during the Tour years was doped.

LA brings out the worst in people, as a read of this thread will surely attest. Snark, sniping, personal attacks, the need to be right, you don't know what you're talking about, someone is wrong on the Internet and I'm going to fix it, ad nauseum.

A lot of this thread consists of guys taking pot shots at other guys. Yes, LA is a douche, and a lot of the back and forth here is pretty douchey as well. How 'bout a mod closes this now and we all just go for a ride?

[echelon_john]

Seconded

I reread the thread. Jgrooms says with the exception of one or two guys on the podium with LA during the Tour years, all were doped. Abalone reads the same thread and says Jgrooms said that every single guy who rode with LA during the Tour years was doped.

LA brings out the worst in people, as a read of this thread will surely attest. Snark, sniping, personal attacks, the need to be right, you don't know what you're talking about, someone is wrong on the Internet and I'm going to fix it, ad nauseum.

A lot of this thread consists of guys taking pot shots at other guys. Yes, LA is a douche, and a lot of the back and forth here is pretty douchey as well. How 'bout a mod closes this now and we all just go for a ride?

[Jgrooms]

Thirded! 60 in Jan. Didn't get my 10, but 6200 good enough.

[bluesea]

snip


LA brings out the worst in people, as a read of this thread will surely attest.

snip


No, if anything people bring out the worst of themselves over LA. Sheesh, the guy isn't even relevant anymore. Now you can lock.

[Jgrooms]

No, if anything people bring out the worst of themselves over LA. Sheesh, the guy isn't even relevant anymore. Now you can lock.


Sorry to disagree, but he will long into the future be "relevant". If history is our guide, even the worst of the scorned & vilified get comeback tour. Lance will get his, he's working too hard at it. Someday he'll be handing out those cute lions & mugging it up with podium girls. Its ok, you can spit what ya coughed up now. IMO, of course.

And for the record, while a bit tongue & cheek, I didn't make any personal attacks nor misquote anybody to my knowledge. So lock away.

[jr59]

No, if anything people bring out the worst of themselves over LA. Sheesh, the guy isn't even relevant anymore. Now you can lock.

I'm Sure he will be relevant as long as those 7 are vacant. History shows us this. Just look at baseball and Pete Rose. His name just keep being brought back up. Same way with Bonds.

[p nut]

. . . and of course the headline is" Lance Armstrong:I'd Probably Dope Again." I could have guessed that's the aspect US media would grab onto. If Lance is trying to rehab himself this was not a good move to do it.

BBD

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2342837-lance-armstrong-speaks-out-on-doping-lifetime-ban-in-bbc-interview?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

Got to know that line where you shouldn't say what you're thinking. Even though everyone knows what you're really thinking.

[Jgrooms]

I'm Sure he will be relevant as long as those 7 are vacant. History shows us this. Just look at baseball and Pete Rose. His name just keep being brought back up. Same way with Bonds.


Exactly! And Charlie Hustle will be reinstated.

[DCilliams]

Followed this thread today. Not sure if I'm the only one who has not seen this documentary on Showtime. I thought it was well done. I never really followed the Lance years closely; but through the lens of a capable filmmaker, it sure is a hell of a story. Notes of Shakespeare.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vpsvqXkeAo

[Charles M]

Lance sells more than the rest of cycling combined...

Still...

He's also large enough to act as the shield for dopers past and present.

[makoti]

Exactly! And Charlie Hustle will be reinstated.

I loved Pete Rose. Played the way you should. And never, ever let him in.

[Jgrooms]

I loved Pete Rose. Played the way you should. And never, ever let him in.


I agree. However, the trend line is in.

As transgressions go, Rose's gambling or Lance's doping, which is worst?

[oldpotatoe]

I agree. However, the trend line is in.

As transgressions go, Rose's gambling or Lance's doping, which is worst?

Pete bet on his own team and never to lose. I don't think his betting had an impact on the 'game' outcome. I don't see Pete as 'cheating', others disagree, loudly sometimes.. LA cheated. Will Pete ever be in the HOF, I'll bet he will. New commissioner only on the job for about a month. Selig said no, maybe new guy after he figures out where the bathrooms are.

[Ralph]

I've tried to keep my opinion neutral with regard to LA. It's difficult in these discussions to separate our harsh opinions of him with regard to his treatment of others around him, his apparent denial of the facts with regard to his case....from the question of what would any of us done in the mid 90's if we were pro cyclists with a desire to win at the highest levels. I know under those circumstances I might have done what he did, but afterwards I don't think I would have been a jerk about it. My issues with him is mostly about the latter. Not sure he can ever overcome this.... with me anyway.

[jr59]

Pete bet on his own team and never to lose. I don't think his betting had an impact on the 'game' outcome. I don't see Pete as 'cheating'

Here we will disagree.

As far as I know, what is stated us correct. BUT, When in charge of who plays and for how long, namely pitchers and bullpen, it effects out comes of games he does not bet on latter in the week...ie....burns up arms in known losses!

I use to feel the same way you do until I meet a scout that explained it better than I can.

I also think Rose will never get in, just like shoeless Joe Jackson. While I think the hall of fame should have a wing for players of the PED era.

[Tony T]

Pete bet on his own team and never to lose.

"Thats what he said" (never proved he did, and never proved he didn't)

[CunegoFan]

I agree. However, the trend line is in.

As transgressions go, Rose's gambling or Lance's doping, which is worst?

All the team managers and players were not gambling. The Commissioner and MLB was not actively facilitating gambling in baseball. Rose is out there alone. Armstrong was just one of hundreds of riders at the top who were doping, a super majority that included every one of his rivals; and the UCI did its best to hide the systemic doping from the public. The two situations are not even close.

[jr59]

All the team managers and players were not gambling. The Commissioner and MLB was not actively facilitating gambling in baseball. Rose is out there alone. Armstrong was just one of hundreds of riders at the top who were doping, a super majority that included every one of his rivals; and the UCI did its best to hide the systemic doping from the public. The two situations are not even close.

They are in the vein of, 7 years no TDF winner, and the all time hits leader is missing from the hall.

Neither will be forgotten. Or be quite for that matter.

[makoti]

Pete bet on his own team and never to lose. I don't think his betting had an impact on the 'game' outcome. I don't see Pete as 'cheating', others disagree, loudly sometimes.. LA cheated. Will Pete ever be in the HOF, I'll bet he will. New commissioner only on the job for about a month. Selig said no, maybe new guy after he figures out where the bathrooms are.

It's really this: Baseball has exactly ONE drop dead rule - do not bet on the game. They will take you back if you do drugs. They will give second chances for almost anything. Everyone knows that one rule. And he broke it. I don't care who he bet on, his team or another to win, lose, or how much they scored. And he knows (because nobody knows more about the game than Pete. Just ask him) WHY that rule is a drop dead rule. If you want to let him in, then Shoeless Joe gets in first.

[oldpotatoe]

It's really this: Baseball has exactly ONE drop dead rule - do not bet on the game. They will take you back if you do drugs. They will give second chances for almost anything. Everyone knows that one rule. And he broke it. I don't care who he bet on, his team or another to win, lose, or how much they scored. And he knows (because nobody knows more about the game than Pete. Just ask him) WHY that rule is a drop dead rule. If you want to let him in, then Shoeless Joe gets in first.

The 'Black Sox' made it so, to not throw games. I still think he will be in eventually. The PED guys, I hope not. They cheated, Rose didn't gain an advantage by betting on baseball. IMHO of course.

[Charles M]

It's really this: Baseball has exactly ONE drop dead rule - do not bet on the game. They will take you back if you do drugs. They will give second chances for almost anything. Everyone knows that one rule. And he broke it. I don't care who he bet on, his team or another to win, lose, or how much they scored. And he knows (because nobody knows more about the game than Pete. Just ask him) WHY that rule is a drop dead rule. If you want to let him in, then Shoeless Joe gets in first.



Yeah but Cycling had ONE drop dead rule.

"You have to dope to win a Grand Tour GC or Classic"

And everyone including the governing body knew it and played by it.

[CunegoFan]

They are in the vein of, 7 years no TDF winner, and the all time hits leader is missing from the hall.

Neither will be forgotten. Or be quite for that matter.

The UCI had a chance to solve this to a reasonable degree. When USADA said it was stripping Armstrong of all seven wins, the UCI could have said, "No. We'll follow the rules and the statute of limitations is eight years." It could have taken two wins. If it wanted to play hardball then it could have pointed out that the UCI did not sign on to the WADA code until the middle of 2004, after the 2004 TdF, and taken one. But two would have been convenient because it would have left Armstrong with five. Give out wins to Basso and Kloden. There would have been some grumbling about those two being recognized as winners, but putting Armstrong level with the other great dopers who won five is something the sport could live with long term. As it is, a seven year hole it will always cause controversy until the UCI or ASO mans up and admits the truth about the era. As time goes on and more and more is revealed, the decision will look worse and worse.

[makoti]

The 'Black Sox' made it so, to not throw games. I still think he will be in eventually. The PED guys, I hope not. They cheated, Rose didn't gain an advantage by betting on baseball. IMHO of course.

If you made me choose, I'd let Pete in first because I agree with you about who did more actually damage to the game. However, I'd prefer neither. Sadly, the dopers will get in.
To me, Hammerin' Hank is still the HR king.

[djg21]

Yes, if pro Tri at 16, US amateur, US Pro, and World Champion is slightly above ave. ;-) Must be one of those post 99 cycling experts?

Again, don't let your - take your pick- dislike, disgust, and/or righteousness get in the way of facts.

As much as I could never stand his ugly American persona, you have to give him some credit. He was/is a great athlete, and would have been somewhat successful without the drugs (though he would never have won close to seven Tours).

[makoti]

Yeah but Cycling had ONE drop dead rule.

"You have to dope to win a Grand Tour GC or Classic"

And everyone including the governing body knew it and played by it.

From Little League, everyone who plays baseball hears that one rule, knows the penalty. Everybody sings from the same hymn book, so to speak.
You. Don't. Do. It. Or, you're gone.
What you're talking about is a organizational failing - everyone knew and pretended not to because it was great TV. EXACTLY what happened in the late 90's with baseball. I know that Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Brady ····ing Anderson for god's sake, all of them, were doing what was "allowed" by the bosses.
Yet, I still hold them accountable. Why? Because they erased records of players who didn't take all that to be that good. And not by much, either.
Oh, I hold the bosses accountable, too. It's been a LONG time since I've been to a game. And I haven't watch 10 minutes of a tour in ages. Don't know the names of any of them. Not because I refuse to support them any more. It's because they killed the fevor I had. I'll ride. I'll even play a game of ball. Much more than that, I barely care.
At least I know who to blame.

[Elefantino]

Does Rose's career deserve to be in the HOF? Obviously.

Does Pete? No.

I say this as a former (card-carrying) member of the BBWAA who gave it up. Were I still voting, he would not get mine. He bet on baseball. Bet on the Reds. Death penalty. Hard, yes. And although I found Pete to be almost child-like, a simpleton's simpleton (albeit surrounded by yes-men, including Marty Brennaman), he knew what he was doing. He just thought because he was the HK he could get away with it. He mistook being IN baseball for being baseball.

Here's the sad part: It killed Bart Giamatti. He didn't want to bring down the HK. Even though Pete could be about as lovable as a cactus at times (ask Dave Parker, then plug your ears), the commish loved him because he loved baseball. But when Janszen came forward, it was the beginning of the end.

The druggies are a different matter.

[makoti]

Does Rose's career deserve to be in the HOF? Obviously.

Does Pete? No.

I say this as a former (card-carrying) member of the BBWAA who gave it up. Were I still voting, he would not get mine. He bet on baseball. Bet on the Reds. Death penalty.

Glad to read this. I hope the current voters are paying attention.

[oldpotatoe]

Does Rose's career deserve to be in the HOF? Obviously.

Does Pete? No.

I say this as a former (card-carrying) member of the BBWAA who gave it up. Were I still voting, he would not get mine. He bet on baseball. Bet on the Reds. Death penalty. Hard, yes. And although I found Pete to be almost child-like, a simpleton's simpleton (albeit surrounded by yes-men, including Marty Brennaman), he knew what he was doing. He just thought because he was the HK he could get away with it. He mistook being IN baseball for being baseball.

Here's the sad part: It killed Bart Giamatti. He didn't want to bring down the HK. Even though Pete could be about as lovable as a cactus at times (ask Dave Parker, then plug your ears), the commish loved him because he loved baseball. But when Janszen came forward, it was the beginning of the end.

The druggies are a different matter.

Well said and I agree with all said..'HK'??

[leooooo]

Well said and I agree with all said..'HK'??

Hit king?

[makoti]

Hit king?

Correct

[cainez]

Decent interview. Has he thrown other people under the bus?