PayPal

[Rpoole8537]

I am selling an older CF frame on CL. A potential local buyer wants to pay full price, but wants me to take money from his PayPal account. I'm willing to pay the fee, but what else should I be concerned about. What steps do I take to protect myself. Thanks!

[Louis]

When will the hardware transfer take place relative to the $$$ transfer?

Via smartphone so both happen at the same time? Will you be able to verify that at your end at the same time?

[shovelhd]

Proving delivery. Take a selfie or have someone take a picture of him receiving the item.

[Cicli]

If he is picking it up, let him inspect it then send the payment as a gift. They can't come back later and say they never got it or is wasn't as described.
If they won't gift the payment and you don't ship it you can always end up with a chargeback.

[pinkshogun]

guy came to my house to buy a 753 Motobcane. he transfered money using my laptop and he left with the bike after funds showed up in my account a few minutes later

[Ralph]

Other than cash, Paypal is best way to sell something I think. When funds appear in your account, give him frame with selfie showing exchange. He may be wanting to take advantage of the "6 months to pay" feature of PayPal after you are paid. BTW.....accepting money for a frame, and calling it a gift....is commiting fraud. Kinda foolish on his part also....he makes you a "gift" and what makes you give him the frame?

[Louis]

he transfered money using my laptop

I guess he trusted you. Had you been a hacker-type I would think that you could easily have recorded his keystrokes (and password) and drained his account as he drove away.

[AngryScientist]

I guess he trusted you. Had you been a hacker-type I would think that you could easily have recorded his keystrokes (and password) and drained his account as he drove away.

i dont know, if i was going to defraud someone so openly, i sure wouldnt do it at my house!

[eddief]

guy came to my house (forum member) I offered my desktop so he could do paypal right here. Instead he used his smartphone and that worked too.

I'd be careful about who I give my address to and who I let in my house. You might get the paypal money, but you might be knocked on your ass and be missing your flat screen when you wake up. CL is a cess pool.

[Cicli]

Other than cash, Paypal is best way to sell something I think. When funds appear in your account, give him frame with selfie showing exchange. He may be wanting to take advantage of the "6 months to pay" feature of PayPal after you are paid. BTW.....accepting money for a frame, and calling it a gift....is commiting fraud. Kinda foolish on his part also....he mades you a "gift" and what makes you give him the frame?

Yeah, except for PayPal. They side with the buyer every time. With no proof of delivery, meaning tracking, you as a seller are hosed. You can do everything right, take all the pictures you want, you still lose as a seller. And that's why, PayPal sucks for personal transactions.

[Cicli]

As far as fraud and PayPal, look at it like a company gift exchange. He didn't know what kind of stuff I liked so he gave me money. I know he likes bike stuff so, I gave him bike stuff. :banana: everyone is happy.

[Ralph]

I've never had any problems with PayPal at all. After hundreds of transactions. I have almost caused some sellers some problems though. Even one on here. When I buy something using Paypal, and I get it not as described, I should be entitled to my money back. And I appreciate PayPal standing up for me. And sure.....I imagine they stand up for buyer without proof otherwise. I bought a used Campy Record cartridge BB on here not so long ago (should know better than do that). Seller said it was smooth like new. When I got it, it was not smooth, was basically worn out, bearings shot. I thought about going back thru PayPal to get my money back, but decided to avoid the hassle. Paypal probably would have sided with me as the buyer. Didn't do it, just figured my fault for believing the buyer RE a BB. But will never buy from him again. So as a seller, be accurate about the description, or you may be giving money back. I have noticed that what some folks call good condition, I wouldn't store that part in my garage. LIke when a Cross racer advertises a part...."only two season of use....excellent condition", etc.....he should expect some selling problems using Paypal.

[pinkshogun]

I guess he trusted you. Had you been a hacker-type I would think that you could easily have recorded his keystrokes (and password) and drained his account as he drove away.

...i left that part out

[zmudshark]

Paypal, money owed at the point of sale.

[djg21]

Yeah, except for PayPal. They side with the buyer every time. With no proof of delivery, meaning tracking, you as a seller are hosed. You can do everything right, take all the pictures you want, you still lose as a seller. And that's why, PayPal sucks for personal transactions.

I assume the seller here is savy enough to have the buyer sign and date a receipt so there is proof of delivery.

I disagree about PayPal, and believe it is a valuable service, especially for purposes of remote transactions. If the seller and buyer have no objection to absorbing fees to use PaPal for a purely local transaction, I don't see an issue. If the PayPal funds are held by PayPal for any reason, I'd think the seller would hold on to the bike.

I would not ask for the PayPal transfer to be "gifted," because to do so would be dishonest and arguably a theft of services.

[zmudshark]

I assume the seller here is savy enough to have the buyer sign and date a receipt so there is proof of delivery.

I disagree about PayPal, and believe it is a valuable service, especially for purposes of remote transactions. If the seller and buyer have no objection to absorbing fees to use PaPal for a purely local transaction, I don't see an issue. If the PayPal funds are held by PayPal for any reason, I'd think the seller would hold on to the bike.

I would not ask for the PayPal transfer to be "gifted," because to do so would be dishonest and arguably a theft of services.

If it is an in person exchange, the seller can really be screwed buy a buyer if done through 'normal' Paypal channels. The buyer (in this case) doesn't have the cash handy, or is unwilling to carry it. The transaction is basically a cash transaction. Money owed is not gifted. If it is a remote transaction and the buyer needs the services/protection Paypal offers, then it's a different story.

[NickR]

If he is picking it up, let him inspect it then send the payment as a gift. They can't come back later and say they never got it or is wasn't as described.
If they won't gift the payment and you don't ship it you can always end up with a chargeback.

+1
I wouldn't go through the transaction unless he agreed to Paypal gift.

Also he might just want to haggle you down on price. I had that happen, person agreed to pay what i was asking, then looked for every flaw to justify a lower price ( I had emailed the guy Hi-rez pictures beforehand). I was on my way to the beach with the family and didn't' want to log around the item (chair) so i gave in to the lower price.

[djg21]

If it is an in person exchange, the seller can really be screwed buy a buyer if done through 'normal' Paypal channels. The buyer (in this case) doesn't have the cash handy, or is unwilling to carry it. The transaction is basically a cash transaction. Money owed is not gifted. If it is a remote transaction and the buyer needs the services/protection Paypal offers, then it's a different story.

I'm not sure I follow you. I don't know what you mean by "normal," or why it matters how the goods purchased via PayPal are delivered. The only thing different about an in person transaction seems to be that the seller has a fuller opportunity to inspect the goods before consummating the deal, and therefore is less likely to have to ask PayPal to intervene.

Granted, I wasn't sure why a buyer would want to use PayPal for a purely local transaction, but as a another poster indicated above, it could be a desire to make use of PayPal credit/financing, and this would be legitimate.

[NickR]

I would not ask for the PayPal transfer to be "gifted," because to do so would be dishonest and arguably a theft of services.

99% of the time i would agree with the statement above. Since the item will be inspected in person and taken with them, it's the buyers responsibility to make sure it's what they want. With craigslist you can't have buyers remorse and hold the sellers money hostage. Once the transaction is completed there no looking back. Going through PayPal (non gift) he has 180 days to open a case and funds frozen/withdrawal for 20+ days till the "issue is resolved ". So he has 180 days to ride the frame to make sure it's what he wants.

[campy man]

Payment in person via PayPal is reasonable. The buyer might not have all the cash and want to use PayPal credit or simply want a record of the transaction.

I had a guy come by the house and purchase several items and made immediate payment via PayPal ... no problemo.

I would be more cautious about a CL buyer instead of a PayPal transaction.

[foo_fighter]

That is incredibly risky on his part. You could have been running a key logger. Maybe he had 2 factor turned on.

guy came to my house to buy a 753 Motobcane. he transfered money using my laptop and he left with the bike after funds showed up in my account a few minutes later

[unterhausen]

everyone should have two factor turned on. The theives have figured out how to get into your paypal account, they did mine anyway. Fortunately paypal figured out it was fishy and put a hold on my account anyway.

[brando]

I am considering a transaction with a buyer in brazil who is willing to pay handsomely for my inconvenience of shipping/customs. I would like bulletproof payment since I have no way of knowing the buyer's intentions. My item is NOS and rare and I will follow through. I would like to not have any risk in the transaction since I know I'm on the up and up. Paypal carries considerable buyer's remorse risk unless it's paid asa a gift? That's my understanding, is that correct.

[Satellite]

I used PayPal as a seller, I sold a motorcycle. The buyer was from out of town, he paid the full amount via PayPal plus fees. He drove 2.5-3hours test rode the dirt bike. I made him a deal, I would cancel/refund payment in front of him on the computer if he brought cash, then he wouldn't have to pay PayPal fees on top of driving to Colorado Springs. It worked out either way, but no reason to pay PayPal for no service, we just used them to secure initial payment.

I don't think you have anything to worry about. Doubt the gift thing constitutes fraud, that is an awful strong phrasing. I would definitely make the buyer pay the extra fees for using PayPal, that's his deal to use the service to pay.

I recently sold a Mountain Bike that went to Singapore, and he paid the fees with NOT so much as peep. Again his responsibility for using PayPal.

Satellite

[Satellite]

I am considering a transaction with a buyer in brazil who is willing to pay handsomely for my inconvenience of shipping/customs. I would like bulletproof payment since I have no way of knowing the buyer's intentions. My item is NOS and rare and I will follow through. I would like to not have any risk in the transaction since I know I'm on the up and up. Paypal carries considerable buyer's remorse risk unless it's paid asa a gift? That's my understanding, is that correct.

Brando,

I don't know if this is true or NOT, but I never keep a balance in my PayPal. I don't think there is anyway for them to recall funds if your PayPal balance is zero. I don't like keeping a balance because when I buy anything with PayPal (eBay) I use my credit card for extra protection incase of fraud. PayPal won't let you use your credit card to buy stuff if you have a balance in your PayPal account.

I know I just wrote about this in the previous post, but really I just sold a multiple thousand dollar mountain bike to a gentleman in Singapore, it was super smooth. I did wait until the funds were securely in my bank account before I shipped it usually takes 3 or 4 days for the balance transfer to go through your bank. It was actually easier than a local purchase because everything was at my convenience. I was never waiting around for someone to show up only to try and talk me down after we agreed on a price before hand.

No guarantees but I really don't think you have anything to worry about.

Satellite

[r_mutt]

Venmo is the new paypal.

[unterhausen]

there are some real horror stories about paypal. Not hard to find them. Too bad they don't have an option to turn off the after-sale chargebacks at the buyer's option.

[NickR]

I am considering a transaction with a buyer in brazil who is willing to pay handsomely for my inconvenience of shipping/customs. I would like bulletproof payment since I have no way of knowing the buyer's intentions. My item is NOS and rare and I will follow through. I would like to not have any risk in the transaction since I know I'm on the up and up. Paypal carries considerable buyer's remorse risk unless it's paid asa a gift? That's my understanding, is that correct.

I would use Ebay or a friend with a high transaction rate. Also in this case use the international option where they ship it for you overseas.

[oldpotatoe]

I am selling an older CF frame on CL. A potential local buyer wants to pay full price, but wants me to take money from his PayPal account. I'm willing to pay the fee, but what else should I be concerned about. What steps do I take to protect myself. Thanks!

If you have a paypal account, he transfers the $, you confirm, you hand him the frame. Local, so no gig with 'the frame never showed up', or 'it's damaged' type stuff. Not sure I understand the ?

[potatochip]

Guy can claim his PayPal account was hacked and papal will refund the money. This is their official line. If you must do electronic then insist on venmo, but really just tell the guy to go to the bank!

[Lewis Moon]

If it's local, cash is king. Is the guy worried about you hitting him over the head? Meet in the parking lot of the local Home Despot on a Saturday morning.....

[oldpotatoe]

If it's local, cash is king. Is the guy worried about you hitting him over the head? Meet in the parking lot of the local Home Despot on a Saturday morning.....

I bought my Campagnolo tool kit in a Starbuck's parking lot, felt like a drug deal.

[brando]

Brando,

I don't know if this is true or NOT, but I never keep a balance in my PayPal. I don't think there is anyway for them to recall funds if your PayPal balance is zero.
No guarantees but I really don't think you have anything to worry about.

Satellite

PayPal will assess a negative balance and their policy is to collect it like a debt.

[brando]

I would use Ebay or a friend with a high transaction rate. Also in this case use the international option where they ship it for you overseas.

Why would I use ebay? They give all the protection to the buyer and add 10%. Why is their shipping service preferable to just using usps in this case. The buyer claims to be serious, I just want to minimize the risk of shipping my item and having he money get tied up or refunded on a scam or PayPal siding with the buyer which is their bias.

[unterhausen]

I can understand if the guy has a paypal balance and wants to use it so he can hide the transaction from his wife. Otherwise, it seems weird. Ebay and Paypal seem to have convinced a certain percentage of their users that scamming sellers is ok.

[Mr_Gimby]

I used PayPal as a seller, I sold a motorcycle. The buyer was from out of town, he paid the full amount via PayPal plus fees. He drove 2.5-3hours test rode the dirt bike. I made him a deal, I would cancel/refund payment in front of him on the computer if he brought cash, then he wouldn't have to pay PayPal fees on top of driving to Colorado Springs. It worked out either way, but no reason to pay PayPal for no service, we just used them to secure initial payment.

I don't think you have anything to worry about. Doubt the gift thing constitutes fraud, that is an awful strong phrasing. I would definitely make the buyer pay the extra fees for using PayPal, that's his deal to use the service to pay.

I recently sold a Mountain Bike that went to Singapore, and he paid the fees with NOT so much as peep. Again his responsibility for using PayPal.

Satellite

"Strong phrasing" or not, it is definitely fraud in the eyes of PayPal and their attorneys. If you claim that the money exchanged is a "gift" when in reality it is being paid for goods/services, you're defrauding PayPal of their 3% commission, thus committing fraud. Now I'm not saying they're gonna go after you for a couple bucks commission on a $50 transaction, but if its a multiple thousand dollar transaction, they might look at it closer.

To the OP, unless its a need-to-sell situation and Mr. PayPal is your only viable buyer, I would maybe put him off until someone offers you cash, the liability as a seller seems quite high. That said, if you get a good impression/vibe from him and keep some sort of proof to verify that he received the item, I suppose its safe enough.

[ultratoad]

Sorry.... I love PayPal.... They provide an exceptionally safe way to sell and buy....

[bargainguy]

Alternative to PayPal:

Last week, I picked up a Square card reader for my smartphone.

I can accept all major credit cards with a 2.75% fee (3.5% if you have to enter #'s manually without the reader).

Last year I bought a bike from someone using a Square reader when I didn't have enough cash on hand. Was happy to pay the 2.75% fee. No problems.

[Lewis Moon]

I bought my Campagnolo tool kit in a Starbuck's parking lot, felt like a drug deal.

It was:cool:

[cmbicycles]

"Strong phrasing" or not, it is definitely fraud in the eyes of PayPal and their attorneys. If you claim that the money exchanged is a "gift" when in reality it is being paid for goods/services, you're defrauding PayPal of their 3% commission, thus committing fraud. Now I'm not saying they're gonna go after you for a couple bucks commission on a $50 transaction, but if its a multiple thousand dollar transaction, they might look at it closer.

...

Whether you take payment as payment owed/gift, or good/services it doesn't affect the fee paypal collects. If the payment is gift/payment owed, then the buyer pays the fee. If the payment is standard goods/services then the seller pays the fee. Paypal will get their cut either way. Unless it is from a balance in the paypal account... in which case I think paypal collects no fee, other than earning interest on your money that was sitting there.

[Mr_Gimby]

Whether you take payment as payment owed/gift, or good/services it doesn't affect the fee paypal collects. If the payment is gift/payment owed, then the buyer pays the fee. If the payment is standard goods/services then the seller pays the fee. Paypal will get their cut either way. Unless it is from a balance in the paypal account... in which case I think paypal collects no fee, other than earning interest on your money that was sitting there.

Paypal only collects fees on gift items when the gift amount is transferred from a credit acct. Using your paypal balance or a transfer from a linked checking acct=no fees.

[NickR]

Why would I use ebay? They give all the protection to the buyer and add 10%. Why is their shipping service preferable to just using usps in this case. The buyer claims to be serious, I just want to minimize the risk of shipping my item and having he money get tied up or refunded on a scam or PayPal siding with the buyer which is their bias.

As a seller on Ebay I've had a couple cases open on me. Buyer claimed item wasn't received, multiple message exchanges. I refused to a refund, buyer wouldn't take anything less. I Escalated for ebay to decide. Within hours ebay ruled in my favor, hold on my money removed. Buyer claimed item not as described, multiple message exchanges we agreed to a partial refund. I filed a claim with usps, compensated for damage. Buyer claimed item not as described, after our message exchange buyer claimed wrong item purchased. Listing was for no return, since it was a 20+ year old electronic piece. I called is bluff and offered to replace with the "correct" item. He passed on it, i then offered a partial refund "restocking fee". Buyer agreed, relisted and sold the item. So far selling on Ebay has worked in my favor.

Regarding the shipping, you ship to a US ebay address. Ebay is responsible for getting it overseas.

To the OP, unless its a need-to-sell situation and Mr. PayPal is your only viable buyer, I would maybe put him off until someone offers you cash

This would be my 1st choice.

[Ligero]

As a seller on Ebay I've had a couple cases open on me. Buyer claimed item wasn't received, multiple message exchanges. I refused to a refund, buyer wouldn't take anything less. I Escalated for ebay to decide. Within hours ebay ruled in my favor, hold on my money removed.

Have the exact opposite experience with eBay and PayPal. I sold a item, shipped it and then after 5 days buyer sent a email asking where the item was. I told him shipping to Australia could take up to 2 weeks for delivery according to USPS and provided the tracking number. He filed a item not received dispute the next day claiming it was taking to long. I provided, emails with me telling him it could take up to 2 weeks and I gave PayPal and eBay the tracking number. They sided with the buyer the next day saying that shipping an item was not enough and closed the case. I showed them a email where I asked the buyer if he would like the package insured for an extra $5 and he turned it down saying it was to much money.

So I was out the money, shipping costs, eBay fees, PayPal fees and the item. The item showed up 3 days after the case was closed. I called PayPal and asked for the money to be returned to me and they told me there is nothing they could do after a case had closed and that I could try requesting the money from the buyer since they did actually receive the item. The buyer never paid.

[likebikes]

might be just me, but i'd only accept cold, hard, cash for an in person transaction.
most expensive item i've ever sold via a CL local sale is $3 or 4 hundred dollars, so there's that too.

[SoCalSteve]

I bought my Campagnolo tool kit in a Starbuck's parking lot, felt like a drug deal.


I can't tell you how many things I've bought in the parking lot of a Starbucks. It's the new Costco!!!

[NickR]

Have the exact opposite experience with eBay and PayPal. I sold a item, shipped it and then after 5 days buyer sent a email asking where the item was. I told him shipping to Australia could take up to 2 weeks for delivery according to USPS and provided the tracking number. He filed a item not received dispute the next day claiming it was taking to long. I provided, emails with me telling him it could take up to 2 weeks and I gave PayPal and eBay the tracking number. They sided with the buyer the next day saying that shipping an item was not enough and closed the case. I showed them a email where I asked the buyer if he would like the package insured for an extra $5 and he turned it down saying it was to much money.

So I was out the money, shipping costs, eBay fees, PayPal fees and the item. The item showed up 3 days after the case was closed. I called PayPal and asked for the money to be returned to me and they told me there is nothing they could do after a case had closed and that I could try requesting the money from the buyer since they did actually receive the item. The buyer never paid.

That sucks and if i had that experience, i would have a different opinion of Ebay. I take it, it was an international buyer. I avoid international buyer's like the plague. I've received several offers of buyers willing to pay more if i ship international, no thanks. Now that Ebay handles the international shipping, i might consider it. After that incident, I make sure to insure all packages for piece of mind.

[brando]

After that incident, I make sure to insure all packages for piece of mind.

Insurance claims are initiated by the receiver, so it's still a pain in the rear to deal with an uncooperative or disingenuous buyer. I could tell a story about selling a camera to an unreasonable buyer in korea. It all worked out in my favor in the end, but it wasn't worth the headache. :banana:

[Rpoole8537]

The transaction took place today, and I asked him to sign a receipt. The receipt had the serial number on it and the number should also be recorded at the dealer where I bought the bike. He used his laptop to send payment and I verified receipt of the money on my phone. He rides out of a local shop that has a good reputation. I don't personally know the owner but I know of him. I'll move the cash to my checking account later tonight. Thanks for your input.

[Satellite]

The transaction took place today, and I asked him to sign a receipt. The receipt had the serial number on it and the number should also be recorded at the dealer where I bought the bike. He used his laptop to send payment and I verified receipt of the money on my phone. He rides out of a local shop that has a good reputation. I don't personally know the owner but I know of him. I'll move the cash to my checking account later tonight. Thanks for your input.
Rpoole8537,

Sounds like it worked out just fine, did he pay the PayPal fees or did you eat them, so as NOT to commit fraud to PayPal?

Satellite