Are Mavic track wheels really that fast?

[FastforaSlowGuy]

Watching UCI track and it seems everyone uses the same wheel combo from Mavic. I generally assume that wheel choice in the peloton is a function of sponsorship money, more than quality/aerodynamics/etc. Anyone know if it's the same for track? Or are Mavic's wheels really that much better?


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[verticaldoug]

Track cyclist might be a little superstitious, but since the first version of the 5 spoke IO was introduced in '96 Olympics, I think it has won 80% of the medals.

[carpediemracing]

I thought the same thing about the Mavic wheels on the track. There must be something to them for the high pressure/power track events.

Chris Hoy uses them with branding on them. Since the rest of his bike is essentially unbranded UK cycling stuff I figure that's significant, meaning there's money behind the branding.

Track racers seem to want something slightly different from road racers (meaning anyone racing with road wheels). For example the track wheels I've seen seem to emphasize stiffness rather than aero or weight. I wonder if the Mavic wheels are super stiff and make a bike more predictable when under extreme duress.

When I talked to vendors about rims for track they boast about how much tension the rim can hold. I took it to mean that track racers want super high tension, I suppose to make the wheel super stiff.

A local rider raced with the national team in the team sprint. Friendly, humble, and I raced (and lost) against him when he was a Junior. He was kind enough to give me one of the two leader's jerseys he won at my races, one at my expense (the other jersey he doing the Junior series).

Later, when he returned, now a former national team sprinter, we caught up a bit. I, of course, asked him about his power numbers. He was talking about 2400w 5s, 1800w sprints, 1000w or maybe 1200w minutes, just absurd levels of power, and he never did well internationally! At that level of power I don't know if wheels that I consider totally acceptable would be very good.

Although I'm definitely a sprinter before anything else, I've only raced on the track one season and have no expertise on what makes a good track wheel a good track wheel. So there's that.

[Look585]

Stiff, strong, durable, aero and packable. There were likely wheels at the world cup this weekend that have been service for a decade. Very few world class sprinters race on anything else.

[nooneline]

The short answer is yes, they're that fast.

But more importantly, they're stiff and strong as hell. The Comete is a lenticular disc - not many other companies make lenticular discs (might be only FFWD and PRO). The added strength from this method is apparently important and quite favored when doing 2000 watts at 45+mph on 43-degree banking.

Enduros use a pretty wide range of gear - trispokes, deep carbon spoked wheels, discs from a bunch of other manufacturers, et cetera - but it's very rare to see a high-level sprinter use anything but a Mavic iO/Comete combination.

[11.4]

Yeah, they are the best.

First, they are bulletproof. I've seen pedals poked through an Io and chew it all up, but it can be refaired with resin and it just keeps going. I can't say I've EVER seen an Io or Comete fail on the track.

Second, the rear is a lenticular disc as pointed out above. Flat discs do fine in straight lines, but they work like flat tops -- they don't like to turn. Lenticular discs can handle and steer much better. That's big on the track.

Third, the wheels the big guys work with are sometimes nicer than the ones that rich peons get to buy. This is sort of how it works: These wheels are hand-made and vary quite a bit in precision -- roundness, trueness, etc. Mavic sends them first to shops because they get full wholesale cost that way. A good shop will check the Io or Comete you order and often will send it back for a replacement if it isn't particularly good. John Dacey at Business Cycles used to have to do this all the time. After a wheel has made two or three rounds to stores, it goes to a team. It is more of a "I'm paying a bleeding fortune for this and I want it to be perfect" sentiment rather than a real performance problem with the wheel. So some of the wheels the national teams get are basically free or highly subsidized, while they also buy new wheels to get the right to offer really good ones to their top riders. When they buy new wheels, they get ones that are much lighter than the usual -- significantly lighter layups, sometimes up to 40% lighter. There really is that much variability among these handmade wheels. When you buy your own wheels you also get an Io with the kind of tire bed you want -- the resin is laid up totally by hand, and I've seen Io's with almost flat beds and others with extraordinarily deep ones.

One benefit of the Comete and Io is that the axle is held in place very simply and can be tapped out with a rubber mallet, so the wheels can be packed together in a big bag or box without getting poked by another wheel's axle. It only takes seconds to tap the axle back in with the same rubber mallet. And you can do this over and over as a national team travels around the world. It's quite an advantage compared to shipping Zipps. Most teams gave up on Zipp discs if only because so many discs arrived with holes punched in them.

One last aspect of the Io and Comete is that they have extraordinarily lateral stiffness. For a rider beginning a kilo or a hard sprint in a keirin, or simple a tough maneuver on the banking, most wheels want to flex sideways quite a bit. Top riders have pulled spokes regularly on standard road carbon rims. They'll use them for madisons because the gearing is lower, the cadences are faster, and they are sponsored. But when it gets into high watts, most pros and national team members will ask the mechanic to put on an Io and Comete. If you put a pair on your own bike and try them out, the lateral stiffness is amazing -- you didn't know how much your wheels wobbled on you, and how much more speed you can command simply because the wheels make you feel so much stabler.

[nooneline]

Heh. My first trip to Track Nationals included a Zipp disc* with an axle-hole punched in it. I put a sticker over it.

*it's okay, I'm an enduro.

[oldpotatoe]

Watching UCI track and it seems everyone uses the same wheel combo from Mavic. I generally assume that wheel choice in the peloton is a function of sponsorship money, more than quality/aerodynamics/etc. Anyone know if it's the same for track? Or are Mavic's wheels really that much better?


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bing, bing bing, we have a winner!!

At least with mavic wheels they don't have a crappy FH design.

[hida yanra]

it isn't accidental, they truly are that much better than pretty well everything else.

The note about axles and shipping is huge for team mechs that have many of these, and I've ridden repaired Mavic wheels that were still miles better than my normal-use Hed/Zipp track wheels.

The stiffness, holy-difference maker Batman. I didn't put much stock in it since as an Enduro/Pursuiter I wasn't putting massive sprint numbers out - but as I got onto some of the steep tracks I could feel a huge difference between 3x 32 wheels/trispoke/disc combinations and then actually *stiff* wheels.

Going into a steep banking at high speed and trying to hold the bike in a consistent line while your wheels flex differentially - and I was around 67kg w/o a big sprint - given an option, I'll take the non-terrifying option, thanks.

Interestingly, this is one of the reasons you still see some of the old Zipp 950 discs in service - they sure are 15 years old, but their construction is solid (as in, not hollow) and they flex a whole lot less than lighter modern discs.

With FFWD, FSA, and one or two other brands now shipping 3, 4, 5 spoke wheels there are some more options, but those manufs still aren't at Mavics level, and high-level racers will keep sending their money to France until further notice.
Of note, Corima is back in the track game more seriously, and Team GB has been using some of their discs, it'll be interesting to see if that continues through the Olympics.