State Bicycle Co: Update and Change. Something Else?

[Lewis Moon]

"Anyone know anything? I'm looking for a Cheeeeeep SSCX frame and the Warhawk came up."

Well the State Warhawk frame came, but it was damaged, probably in shipping, so I'm returning it. I didn't buy this from State so no blame on them for the poor pack job.

First impression: The frame is put together in a workmanlike fashion. Welds are neither good or bad; a bit cobby but serviceable. Paint is OK but the chainstays are pinched at the join to the BB, presumably to make the weld easier. This is not a tire clearance pinch. I'll get a picture before I box it up. Basically, at $229, you're paying full retail. This is not a "bang for the buck" frame.
Finally, the frame weighs as much as city bus. I was gobsmacked by the weight of the fork when I winched it out of the box.

All in all, I would have kept it if it wasn't damaged, it's primary function being a commuter after all, but it's going back.

On to better things. I hate doing it but I may have to buy a built up bike and flog the take offs just to get at a reasonable "production" SSCX frame. Looking at the available frames, the Felt Breed is now at the top of the list.

[sandyrs]

Historically they've sold cheap fixies that don't have a reputation for falling apart, so that bodes well enough.

That said the geo on their 58 (which is what I'm assuming you'll be riding at "our" height) has me wary. The 74 STA is really steep (like, I couldn't get enough setback steep) and the 71.5 head angle seems slacker than it needs to be.

But holy crap is that thing cheap.

[Lewis Moon]

Historically they've sold cheap fixies that don't have a reputation for falling apart, so that bodes well enough.

That said the geo on their 58 (which is what I'm assuming you'll be riding at "our" height) has me wary. The 74 STA is really steep (like, I couldn't get enough setback steep) and the 71.5 head angle seems slacker than it needs to be.

But holy crap is that thing cheap.

Where'd you see the Geo? If it's a 74, I'd need one of the VO super setback posts. I ride a 25 setback on a 73* seat angle.

(are we looking at the same frame for sale...? :eek:)

[sandyrs]

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0232/3305/files/cyclostandard.jpg

Found on the page for the ($579 complete!) bike.

http://www.statebicycle.com/products/cyclo-cross-bike-warhawk

[Lewis Moon]

From what I've been told, at my seat height, one degree = ~12mm.

··· is up with a 74 seat angle?

BTW: State's main office is about 1/2 mile from my house.

[jmoore]

GScot on here has two of them. I think their shop was next door to his in Tempe. He likes them IIRC. Ill see if I can roust him up for a better review

[eBAUMANN]

that geometry is pretty bogus...

best cheap SSCX out there is the on-one pompino, IMO.

[Lewis Moon]

Just dropped by the "world headquarters" in an industrial park near my house. Nice folks. They drug one out of a box for me to look at. Welds are workmanlike. Good at the pricepoint.

[Lewis Moon]

that geometry is pretty bogus...

best cheap SSCX out there is the on-one pompino, IMO.

If the weren't so bleedingly ugly...

[eBAUMANN]

If the weren't so bleedingly ugly...

personally i think frames with integrated headsets that have bulged out headtubes to accommodate them are also bleedingly ugly, but to each their own ;)

[GScot]

Yeah, wife and I each have a state fixie for our bar cruising bikes. Look good, tough reliable components, excellent value. Also have a velo vie which is their road bike cousin, happy with it as well. If you buy with the right frame of mind I think it will satisfy. Assuming the geometry works. It will be heavy.

[pakora]

I don't know these bikes in particular, but I have one of the same ilk (Civilian Le Roi) and it's a fine riding bike, but is very very heavy. Like, built up with reasonably light components you're like "haha that's heavy".

I have a big frame, but with a 500g fork it's just shy of 9 pounds with the headset and seat collar. That's twice as heavy as my Kelly which is the same size and has a steel fork and a normal headset.

I mention that only in case you'd ever want to race it.

[R3awak3n]

I have a buddy that has a fixed gear one, he didn't go for the cheapest one but at $700 complete still pretty cheap. I remember Channing a few parts for him, pedals, saddle and some other things but the frame has been solid, he rides it everyday as his commuter, doesn't treat it very well and it's still totally fine, paint still looks good too.

[Lewis Moon]

I don't know these bikes in particular, but I have one of the same ilk (Civilian Le Roi) and it's a fine riding bike, but is very very heavy. Like, built up with reasonably light components you're like "haha that's heavy".

I have a big frame, but with a 500g fork it's just shy of 9 pounds with the headset and seat collar. That's twice as heavy as my Kelly which is the same size and has a steel fork and a normal headset.

I mention that only in case you'd ever want to race it.

I really would like to have the option to race it, but I have no delusions about being fast on any bike. I'm not a fan of sewer pipe bikes but my Kelly feels like a brick beside my Ridley and I still LOVE to ride it and regularly set PRs on it (on flat courses). Light would be VERY cool, but it's a preference not a deal breaker.

I have Mudhoney tastes but a Huffy budget :rolleyes:

[zennmotion]

I agree that the State geometry is not what I would want, certainly not for a race bike, but whatevs for a commuter/errand MUT cruiser. My suggestion would be a Bianchi San Jose, keep looking in Ebay there's a lot of them out there sold off by Millenials with short attention spans... I raced a borrowed San Jose a few times and it handles pretty nice for what it is, a decent SS roadster with clearance for cross tires. The Il Pompino looks better designed than the State as well, though I've never ridden one. I'd also look into finding a used steel CXer that fits well and take it to a builder to replace the dropouts. A used Gunnar or Poprad re-fitted for SS would be awesome. The "cheapest" "acceptable" option for me would be a used San Jose though- $400 MSRP frameset if you can find one. The black looks OK, the green is cooler.

[sandyrs]

What did you end up getting?

[Lewis Moon]

What did you end up getting?

I got a 58cm State Warhawk frame. I figure I can build it, get the parts sorted, thrash it like a hopped up Yugo then sell the frame to some hipster. Plenty of those about. I'll tell them the scratches are "bespoke character enhancement".

https://scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10941383_857684790961223_1229671884884421010_n.jpg ?oh=55ec1237325394664350ebb8dd811505&oe=552C3F31

[Charles M]

I've known them for a while. They're also VeloVie.

They don't have much in the way of returns or warranty issues. They have a pretty reasonable source that seems to be putting together solid (if not light) kits.

The direct to customer prices are, for State and VeloVie, VERY competitive.

I did a basic fix here: http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/tech-n-spec/pez-reviews-state-bicycle-co-s-fixed-flyer/

Especially in the case you live close by, there's not much downside to State. They're good guys that ride and have been at it a while... The product is no frills but solid.

[Lewis Moon]

I'll be looking for another frame. See the original post for my assessment of the State Warhawk.

[nooneline]

I'll be looking for another frame. See the original post for my assessment of the State Warhawk.

I had a BikesDirect Motobecane Fantom Cross Uno for a while. 4130 Steel SSCX frame.

Hilariously, my 49cm frame came with 175mm cranks, a 135mm stem, and 46cm handlebars. I raised a stink and they refunded me some money. But, for a bike nerd, that stuff isn't the end of the world - I put my own stem, bars, and saddle on it. But it reminded me that I wouldn't recommend BikesDirect cheapies to non-bike people for their first bike. They're better for bike people for their second or third or fourth or whateverth bike.

Anyway it was a basic frame that had room for fat tires and fenders, handled well, came with cheap decent wheels and brakes, and can survive the apocalypse. All for $399 shipped, iirc.

I wouldn't choose it as an SSCX race frame, but for a communter/lockup/bangaround, it's just fine.

[Lewis Moon]

I had a BikesDirect Motobecane Fantom Cross Uno for a while. 4130 Steel SSCX frame.

Hilariously, my 49cm frame came with 175mm cranks, a 135mm stem, and 46cm handlebars. I raised a stink and they refunded me some money. But, for a bike nerd, that stuff isn't the end of the world - I put my own stem, bars, and saddle on it. But it reminded me that I wouldn't recommend BikesDirect cheapies to non-bike people for their first bike. They're better for bike people for their second or third or fourth or whateverth bike.

Anyway it was a basic frame that had room for fat tires and fenders, handled well, came with cheap decent wheels and brakes, and can survive the apocalypse. All for $399 shipped, iirc.

I wouldn't choose it as an SSCX race frame, but for a communter/lockup/bangaround, it's just fine.

I'm a bit conflicted here...I NEED a commuter/lockup/bangaround/practice frame, but I WANT a competitive SSXC bike. I was basically going to use the State as a "parts horse" for a while to get everything sorted and then leisurely look for a better frame before next season.

[xjoex]

Look for a used Specialized SingleCross. I commuted on one for years. Now I leave it in my office and use it to go around town.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Jz4f840sc_c/SkthDsG9lWI/AAAAAAAABy8/rktKK_9iPN8/s800/100_4012.JPG

-Joe

[nooneline]

I'm a bit conflicted here...I NEED a commuter/lockup/bangaround/practice frame, but I WANT a competitive SSXC bike. I was basically going to use the State as a "parts horse" for a while to get everything sorted and then leisurely look for a better frame before next season.

In your shoes I'd look at the Il Pompino or something else made of decent steel. Fender mounts a big plus, obviously. I'd plan to have a carbon cx fork sitting around for weekends in the autumn, but use the stock steel fork for the rest of the year.

[Lewis Moon]

In your shoes I'd look at the Il Pompino or something else made of decent steel. Fender mounts a big plus, obviously. I'd plan to have a carbon cx fork sitting around for weekends in the autumn, but use the stock steel fork for the rest of the year.

I own a Ridley X-Fire and a Kelly Knobby-X, basically my "Sunday go racin'" and monstercross/trail bikes. Not much of a fan of the IP looks, but beggars can't be choosers. I don't mind discreet, camouflaged rack mounts, but the IP goes more than a bit overboard. I live in Arizona. Fenders are superfluous. On my Poprad, they actually "hid" the eyelets inside the dropouts and fork ends. I started racing in the era where ALL campy dropouts came with eyelets and you could tell a race bike because the builder had cut them off. I developed a decided taste that didn't include superfluous eyelets.

[Charles M]

"Anyone know anything? I'm looking for a Cheeeeeep SSCX frame and the Warhawk came up."

Basically, at $229, you're paying full retail. This is not a "bang for the buck" frame.




Fair enough, but begs the question...

What are a couple of examples of $229 bikes built better and with more bang for buck features??

I would agree the Felt Breed is a nicer option but it's a whole other level of product at a valuation that's more than double the frame price less the basic parts spec. In the case you wanted to keep it if it wasnt damaged, you could have popped in to state and had it replaced in a half hour.

[Lewis Moon]

Fair enough, but begs the question...

What are a couple of examples of $229 bikes built better and with more bang for buck features??

I would agree the Felt Breed is a nicer option but it's a whole other level of product at a valuation that's more than double the frame price less the basic parts spec. In the case you wanted to keep it if it wasnt damaged, you could have popped in to state and had it replaced in a half hour.

I probably should have worded that more precisely. Is it "bang for the buck" or money well spent if something you're looking for isn't there? The two real issues, the chainstay attachment, which was pretty egregious, and the overall weight could probably be addressed for under $100, and the frame would still be dirt cheap. For the most part I understand the heavy tubing, but the chainstay joint looks like something you'd see on a Sears Free Spirit.
I'll take it by State this afternoon to see what they have to say. The damage was done in shipping from a private party so I hold little hope they'll do anything about it, or should. Besides, from talking with someone there, they don't expect to see a frame this size for a couple of months. I'm chalking this up to R&D.