OT: Plumbing help (toilet)

[p nut]

Ok, I thought this would be a simple fix, but it's kicking my butt.

One of my toilets started leaking and I pinpointed it to the fill valve (see picture. Pay no attention to the diy paint job in the background). The seal had been improperly installed causing the leak. So I bought another seal and replaced it, which was a simple job. But it started leaking worse than before. I had some plumbers putty, so tried that, but didn't help. Teflon tape around the threads, but the leak continues. I had the nut on the bottom about as tight as I can get it without strippng the threads.

I am at my wit's end. I am thinking silicone sealant next. Any other suggestions? Had to spend the night listening to the drips hitting the bucket, laughing and mocking me.

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8570/16088832130_cff14d5862.jpg

[JAGI410]

There should be a rubber gasket ring between the plastic nut and the toilet tank. Although you might want to fix that paint job while you have things apart. :banana:

[paredown]

AFAIK, there is usually only a seal on the inside of the tank. And you should need only do it up finger tight or a little more. (Duh--looked at my own picture and now I see the bottom gasket too...)

I have had the problem in the past where the seals compressed (tank to toilet) and then started to leak, then someone (OK it was me...) tried tightening too much and it caused a micro crack from the connection...

So I would take it out again and dry it all and take a really good look at the bottom of the tank.

Have you tried using a new flex line as well?

[Mikej]

Cracked coupling nut or misshaped gasket seal or debris not allowing proper seal. Cracked toilet. Mismatched threads not allowing enough torque.

[tiretrax]

Cracked coupling nut or misshaped gasket seal or debris not allowing proper seal. Cracked toilet. Mismatched threads not allowing enough torque.

My suggestions, too, although I wouldnt suspect a misshaped gasket. When my daughters were 4 and 6, they were climbing on the toilet to get to the medicine cabinet. Eventually, they cracked the tank. Small, continual leak cause quite a ruckus.

[Gsinill]

Do you have another toilet bowl with the same setup?
I would swap the hoses including the cone washer to pin point.

[Birddog]

It's either leaking between the tank and the locknut or at the supply line connection. Which is it? If it's at the supply line, just get a new one. If it's at the tank locknut then uninstall and re install or just get another fill valve assy and re install. Many times when you re use a supply line they will produce the dreaded "drip".

[Ken Robb]

Turn off the water supply. Wait to see of the level in the tank goes down and the leak continues. If so it is probably a failed seal inside the tank allowing tank water to leak out. If not you know it is on the supply side.

[p nut]

I guess I should have specified--the leak is definitely between the tank and locknut. I can see the drips slowly forming under the tank.

I had the thing apart several times yesterday and thoroughly dried and looked for cracks. All seemed ok, which just frustrated me even more. The new seal came with its own locknut, which I tried finger tight, super tight--to no avail. I put the old one back on and it's no different.

This morning, I stopped at HD and picked up a new fill valve assembly along with some silicone sealant. I'll try the sealant first and if it doesn't work, will install the new fail valve.

By the way, neither the new seal kit or the new assembly came with a gasket for the lock nut.

[malcolm]

The picture above is correct. You should not need Teflon tape or plumbers putty where the toilet mechanism attaches to the tank.

[nicrump]

the mistake most people make is over tightening that locknut. if you hamfisted that then flip the washer over in the tank and go to hand tight.

I guess I should have specified--the leak is definitely between the tank and locknut. I can see the drips slowly forming under the tank.

I had the thing apart several times yesterday and thoroughly dried and looked for cracks. All seemed ok, which just frustrated me even more. The new seal came with its own locknut, which I tried finger tight, super tight--to no avail. I put the old one back on and it's no different.

This morning, I stopped at HD and picked up a new fill valve assembly along with some silicone sealant. I'll try the sealant first and if it doesn't work, will install the new fail valve.

By the way, neither the new seal kit or the new assembly came with a gasket for the lock nut.

[Mikej]

You could also put some blue cleaner or dye in the top part and see if it reveals a crack in the porcelain.

[p nut]

Unfortunately, the seal can't be flipped. Looks similar to this:

http://www.americanplumbingproducts.com/aplcom/product_images/HA203/1.jpg

I just hand tightened the first time, but still leaked. I'll use some dye to see if there is a crack (hopefully not).

[Dirtdiggler]

Pp-nut - from the picture. The braided hose is causing your leak.. It is not short or long enough causing improper seal. Purchase a longer braided hose so it forms a ''loop''. That will allow the seal to nest.

[malcolm]

I would go to home depot and a kit to fix it. I'll amend what I said earlier to this the wing nut that secures it to the tank should not need Teflon tape or putty and hand tight is usually enough. Where the braided hose attaches I use Teflon tape or plumbers putty.

I just replaced all the guts in 5 toilets in my house. 2 had various problems so I just changed them all.

[OtayBW]

Pp-nut - from the picture. The braided hose is causing your leak.. It is not short or long enough causing improper seal. Purchase a longer braided hose so it forms a ''loop''. That will allow the seal to nest.
You may be right, but I don't know that I've ever seen (or noticed) a supply line that was looped. You may be a plumber, so I don't know. I'm not, but I've futzed with enough commodes and other stuff over the years to say that that wouldn't have been my first guess.
I'm betting a) boogered up threads, b) lousy seal, or c) cracked tank (unlikely). I'll lay you odds that in either case, just replace the fill valve and you'll be good to go (no pun intended...:rolleyes:).

[shovelhd]

Pp-nut - from the picture. The braided hose is causing your leak.. It is not short or long enough causing improper seal. Purchase a longer braided hose so it forms a ''loop''. That will allow the seal to nest.

It does look too short. That would cause it to tug on the fill valve, allowing the seal to leak.

[old fat man]

You may be right, but I don't know that I've ever seen (or noticed) a supply line that was looped. You may be a plumber, so I don't know. I'm not, but I've futzed with enough commodes and other stuff over the years to say that that wouldn't have been my first guess.
I'm betting a) boogered up threads, b) lousy seal, or c) cracked tank (unlikely). I'll lay you odds that in either case, just replace the fill valve and you'll be good to go (no pun intended...:rolleyes:).

plumber who just installed a new toilet as part of some remodel work at our place used loops in the braided cables. it's the new "hot" thing in plumbing. we did the same when renovating our half bath for ourselves. granted both jobs involved all new toilets and hardware, but no issues.

[vqdriver]

if you're sure the leak is from between the fill valve and hose, buy a new fill valve and longer hose. replace both and don't mess with sealants or tape, you shouldn't need them. fwiw, all my toilet connections seem to have that loop mentioned above.

you could connect the hose to the fill valve before the angle stop to be sure it's seated perfectly.

[shovelhd]

I've always used loops with braided hoses. They are unnecessary if you get the length just right, but that doesn't always happen.

[p nut]

The braided hose seems to have more than enough slack, but I'm willing to try anything at this point. The picture might be misleading, but you can see how the hose bends away half way down. There is no tugging/stretching to get the hose on there. The loop idea makes sense, though.

I'll get a longer hose on the way home.

[bshell]

Start fresh. New Fluidmaster universal fill valve ($10), new 20" braided hose. Follow instructions in fill valve box. The loop in the supply hose is less about connection leaks. It will be less likely to burst in the future without a bunch of tension on it.

Do not use teflon, plumbers's putty, silicone, gorilla glue, JB weld, or duct tape anywhere.

[Dirtdiggler]

P-nut,
good luck. The idea of the loop is to not place any stress on the rubber seals.. The fittings should be finger/snug tight, no need to bottom he threads.

[p nut]

Will do. I ought to start a HDSP - Home Depot savings plan. 3rd trip there this week and it's only Wednesday.

[11.4]

Definitely include a loop -- when the tank rocks slightly every time someone sits on the toilet and/or leans back against the tank, that seal has to be uncompromised. However, at this point, I think Crumpton has it right. You have a buggered seal that no effort can fix, probably from over tightening (as you said you did). Some models you can repair but most are throwaways these days, so I'd just do it again with a new through-fitting and you should be ok.

Now two questions:

1. Why are we talking about a toilet when we should be out riding on a Saturday?

2. And above all, what's with Crumpton? He seems to know how to fix anything. He ain't that old and he's supposed to be building frames and living in a hobbit hole in Austin with resin all over his hands.

[eddief]

to find out how this ends.

[Tandem Rider]

New fill valve, new braided supply tube with metal ends, plumber's grease on the fill valve threads and the fill valve gasket, plumber's grease on supply tube threads both at the fill valve and, especially, the supply stop.

Do NOT use putty, tape or dope anywhere on the fill valve.

[Birddog]

This reminds me of my favorite "disclaimer'. I've seen it a few times always on plumbing goodies. "Tighten securely, CAUTION, do NOT overtighten". Some lawyer and or a product engineer is probably real proud of that.

[Ken Robb]

This reminds me of my favorite "disclaimer'. I've seen it a few times always on plumbing goodies. "Tighten securely, CAUTION, do NOT overtighten". Some lawyer and or a product engineer is probably real proud of that.

Sounds like advice from my physical therapist: it should hurt--but not too much. :)

[Louis]

For some reason I am absolutely paranoid when it comes to DIY plumbing jobs. So often it seems that if something can leak, it will. For example, let's say I'm turning off the supply just below the tank to replace the flapper. I'm always worried that once I'm done the cheap shut-off valve that gets used once every 10 years is going to leak at the shaft.

My next plumbing job is going to be replacing the water shut-off solenoid valves in my washing machine. It's old and buzzes like crazy and the tub takes ages to fill. To do that I'll have to use the supply shut-off valves on the wall. One of them has a history of weeping, but hasn't in a few years. We'll see what happens when I disturb it. (Might as well replace the two supply hoses while I'm at it, since they're at least 12 years old. This time I'll go braided.)

Overall, I'd rather work on live 220 electrical stuff than deal with plumbing...

[eddief]

and make sure the hardware store is open late.

For some reason I am absolutely paranoid when it comes to DIY plumbing jobs. So often it seems that if something can leak, it will. For example, let's say I'm turning off the supply just below the tank to replace the flapper. I'm always worried that once I'm done the cheap shut-off valve that gets used once every 10 years is going to leak at the shaft.

My next plumbing job is going to be replacing the water shut-off solenoid valves in my washing machine. It's old and buzzes like crazy and the tub takes ages to fill. To do that I'll have to use the supply shut-off valves on the wall. One of them has a history of weeping, but hasn't in a few years. We'll see what happens when I disturb it. (Might as well replace the two supply hoses while I'm at it, since they're at least 12 years old. This time I'll go braided.)

Overall, I'd rather work on live 220 electrical stuff than deal with plumbing...

[CNY rider]

Overall, I'd rather work on live 220 electrical stuff than deal with plumbing...

For real excitement try doing both at the same time!

[paredown]

and make sure the hardware store is open late.



And plan on at least three trips--once to buy the stuff you think you will need, the second is to buy the stuff that you actually need, and the third is to buy the stuff you broke...

That's why good plumbers drive those trucks with all the stuff loaded.

[eddief]

a custom bike frame builder.

And plan on at least three trips--once to buy the stuff you think you will need, the second is to buy the stuff that you actually need, and the third is to buy the stuff you broke...

That's why good plumbers drive those trucks with all the stuff loaded.

[p nut]

Saga continues....kind of.

Got the new unit in last night. Then went to install the 20" braided hose, only to find out I made a newbie mistake and bought a 1/2" connector, not what I have--a 3/8". Too late to go back to HD, so went ahead and used the old one. Set everything up, turned on the water, shut it off, then waited.

Another freaking drip forming under the tank. Arrgggh! At this point, I was about to start looking for a spot to put an outhouse in the back yard. Back to my senses, I twisted the hose a bit so the bend was going in a different direction. Waited. No drip. This morning, I found no drips on the floor and the tank was dry underneath.

So I guess the hose was the culprit here (and possibly the seal). I am going to return the 1/2" hose for the correct size and do the loop deal. I think it will be better in the long run.

Thanks a bunch for all of your help.

[Dirtdiggler]

P-nut,
Like cycling industry there is no ‘’standard’’ size. FYI. I use the yellow pipe dope by Rector seal.. great on plastic fittings if you plan on no teflon tape. It helps seals the fitting more without snugging the threads..

[bshell]

Yellow Rector seal is for gas pipe/fittings and I can't think of any plastic fittings that use teflon,(ie. p-traps, supply lines, fill valves, etc.).

Alignment and undamaged rubber (gaskets, washers, o-rings, compression fittings) are what makes for no leaks in your plastic fittings.

[jmoore]

I'll use some dye to see if there is a crack (hopefully not).

Food coloring will work and won't stain like dye.

[Plum Hill]

Just call a damned plumber!

(Says the retired electrician.)

[Tandem Rider]

Compression fittings, what the supply tube uses, do not rely on the threads to form a seal. They seal by the contact interface between the compression "ring" and the end of the fitting. Pipe dope or Teflon tape on the threads can sometimes make it more difficult to get a good clean contact. That is why we always use grease on the threads and a fresh tube (fresh rings) that can be squeezed and distorted into the fitting through pressure. Too tight is also a problem, and the grease helps to get rid of the friction from corrosion giving you a better "feel" for how tight it really is.

[dogdriver]

This thread reminds of the joke about the doctor and the plumber...

I think that the primary lesson to be gleaned from this adventure is to never go to HD within 2 hours of closing time, because you will always be returning...