How do you tekk that a cassette is worn by looking at it?

[Sandy]

Lots of things normally break on my bike- shifters, cables, crankarm falls off, hub axles,.... However, cassettes and chains last a long time. I just had a new chain installed when I had the compact crank installed. The chain had well over 4,000 miles. The cassette has never been replaced and has over 9,000 miles. I know that chains and cassettes should be changed much more often. I will be changing my cassette per suggestions given to me in a previous thread on a vibration issue in my pedals. I am using Dura-Ace 10 components.

By looking at the cassette, it doesn't look to me as if the cassette shows much wear. But at 9,000+ miles, I would think that it does. How does one detemine visually if a cassette is worn???

Thanks!!

Worn Out Serotta Sandy

[Ahneida Ride]

I'd like to know the answer myself !

My LBS guru strongly recommends a new chain every 2k miles.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . greatly appreciate having some empirical way to inspect and be able to tell. I've always used performance--chain slipping, shifting problems, etc--as the criteria.

But then, in the absence of any performance related issues--as long as it's working fine--do you really need to inspect it anyway?

Anybody know?

BBD

[Kevan]

to the point they become glass cutters.

[David Kirk]

If you could hold up a new one next to your old one you might notice that the old one has teeth that are sort of shark fin shaped with a bit of a hook to them.

The real answer is that you can't look at one and really tell. They need to be replaced periodically...........either by mileage of time.

One thing you can do is get yourself a new cassette and two new chains. Equipe the chains with a quick-disconnect link. What you'll do it have a clean chain in reserve and one on the bike. Pull the dirty one off the bike and install the clean one...........lather, rinse, repeat.

The idea is that the stretched chain is what wears the cassette. If you keep a fresh, clean chain on the cassette it will last much longer. Alternate back and forth with the chains and things will last a good bit longer. Chains are much cheaper than 10spd cassettes.

Time to go switch my chain.

Dave

[bironi]

What was the verdict on your pedal vibration from the previous thread?

Byron

[Ray]

I buy a new cassette each season on my main bike (and cycle the old ones onto my second to main bike and IT'S old ones go to the beaters) and replace the chain every two thousand miles on pretty much everything. Which amounts to about 3-4 new chains per year on average.

Its easier than thinking about it and always keeps the two main rigs in very good running condition. Where I fall down is on chainrings, but if I stay with new chains and cassettes, the chainrings seem to last more or less forever.

-Ray

[Dave]

First, a chain should be changed when it's elongation has reached .5%. which is 1/16 inch over 12 inches or 1/4" over four feet, NOT at some particular mileage interval.

Some folks can barely get 2000 miles from a chain, while my campy 10 chain is currently 1/4 of the way to .5% elongation after 5500 miles.

As for when to change cassettes, if you put a new chain on and don't get any skipping in any of the cogs, under a heavy chain tension, then there is no reason to change it. Chain tension will be the greatest when pedaling standing, in the small chainring. Chain skip normally occurs on only one or two of the most heavily used cogs. Sometimes users only change the worn cogs, but if the two worn cogs are on two different pairs of cogs , riveted to different carriers, then it's usually just as cheap to buy the whole cassette, rather than two pairs of cogs. Very few cassettes have individually replaceable cogs these days.

Rohloff makes a tool that is supposed to check for excessively worn cogs.

http://www.rohloff.de/en/products/hg_ig_check/index.html

http://www.cambriabike.com/shopexd.asp?id=13754

[Birddog]

Equipe the chains with a quick-disconnect link. What you'll do it have a clean chain in reserve and one on the bike. Pull the dirty one off the bike and install the clean one...........lather, rinse, repeat

Dave that is soooo simple and such a great idea. I can't believe I've never heard that one before. Thanks,
Birddog

[Grant McLean]

If you could hold up a new one next to your old one you might notice that the old one has teeth that are sort of shark fin shaped with a bit of a hook to them.
Dave


Like this?

This cassette pair wasn't worn enough to skip with a new chain, but I replaced
it anyway, as it definitely didn't feel as smooth as the new one.

-g

[Chief]

Just replaced my chain and it skipped when in the 13 tooth cog. I replaced the cassette and that solved the problem. I hate to invest in a new 9-speed Dura Ace cassette when I only need a 13 tooth cog. Anybody got a good spare 13 cog that they want to recycle?

[Grant McLean]

Just replaced my chain and it skipped when in the 13 tooth cog. I replaced the cassette and that solved the problem. I hate to invest in a new 9-speed Dura Ace cassette when I only need a 13 tooth cog. Anybody got a good spare 13 cog that they want to recycle?

The small cogs are more prone to skipping because they have
fewer teeth in contact with the chain. But if your small ones are
skipping, the others won't be far behind, and you'll go through the
whole thing again, unless that is, you only use your 13? ;-)

-g

[Chief]

The small cogs are more prone to skipping because they have
fewer teeth in contact with the chain. But if your small ones are
skipping, the others won't be far behind, and you'll go through the
whole thing again, unless that is, you only use your 13? ;-)

-g


My 13 gets a lot of use, but I'm afraid you're right. What are people's experience with Scram cassettes at half the price of a Dura Ace?

[Sandy]

What was the verdict on your pedal vibration from the previous thread?

Byron

The verdict, per some of our distinguished forum members is that I need a new cassette to go with my new chain. There were other excellent opinions. There was a poster who said that he was having the same problem with his compact and he has a new cassette and chain. Anyway, I am going to put on a new cassette and see what happens.


Sandy

[palincss]

Just replaced my chain and it skipped when in the 13 tooth cog. I replaced the cassette and that solved the problem. I hate to invest in a new 9-speed Dura Ace cassette when I only need a 13 tooth cog. Anybody got a good spare 13 cog that they want to recycle?

Ten bucks from Sheldon: http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?id=800

[Peter P.]

Looking at a cog to determine whether it needs replacment is POINTLESS. You CAN'T visualize when wear reaches a critical point. Manufacturers' recommendations to replace chains every "X" miles is merely to create revenue, because if you calculate your chain replacement costs versus waiting until a PERCEPTIBLE problem appears, you'll discover you've been told a lie and have been robbed.

Here's how to tell when your cogs need replacement:

Ride your bike.
Most riders' gearing is such that the largest cog is used infrequently. When you discover your chain skipping in that gear, it's time to replace your cassette. Your chain's wear will more nearly match the wear of your more frequently used cogs, so skipping will develop less often with those cogs. So, your super-worn chain won't mesh well with the seldom used cog.

Using this method, I get about 12k miles out of a cogset and chain. Using the typical "replace every 2-3k miles" methods I would be out an additional $80 +/-, take your pick.

[Lincoln]

Looking at a cog to determine whether it needs replacment is POINTLESS. You CAN'T visualize when wear reaches a critical point. Manufacturers' recommendations to replace chains every "X" miles is merely to create revenue, because if you calculate your chain replacement costs versus waiting until a PERCEPTIBLE problem appears, you'll discover you've been told a lie and have been robbed.

Here's how to tell when your cogs need replacement:

Ride your bike.
Most riders' gearing is such that the largest cog is used infrequently. When you discover your chain skipping in that gear, it's time to replace your cassette. Your chain's wear will more nearly match the wear of your more frequently used cogs, so skipping will develop less often with those cogs. So, your super-worn chain won't mesh well with the seldom used cog.

Using this method, I get about 12k miles out of a cogset and chain. Using the typical "replace every 2-3k miles" methods I would be out an additional $80 +/-, take your pick.


Essentially true, but a few caveats do apply:
1) If you swap multiple cassettes on and off of one wheelset for different terrain then the wear will be uneven.
2) If you swap wheels. Either your own (with dedicated cassettes) or in race or tour support situation. Then you could be in trouble.
3) Riding with an older chain will start to wear the chainrings unevenly (and they aren't cheap). However, CRs have to be VERY worn before they will start to show degraded performance.

[GregLR]

[QUOTE=Dave]Rohloff makes a tool that is supposed to check for excessively worn cogs.
http://www.rohloff.de/en/products/hg_ig_check/index.html

I've been using the Rohloff chain wear measurement tool since the late 90s and it has worked very well in enabling me to avoid having chains 'stretch' beyond the point where the cassette also becomes so worn that a new chain skips across the cassette. http://www.rohloff.de/en/products/caliber_2/index.html

Last Wednesday I changed the chain on my brevet bike because the tool indicated it was time, then rode a 400km brevet on Saturday without any skipping or other problems (tested it out beforehand on my commute). I'd been expecting to change the chain soon because the tool indicated that the time was getting close.

The cassette on another of my bikes is now on its 4th chain, courtesy of the Rohloff tool.

In reference to Dave's comment above, I also have the Rohloff tool that measures cassette/cog wear. After using this tool prior to a major long distance brevet event a couple of years ago I decided to retire the cassette even though the new chain wasn't skipping, to ensure I didn't have problems with the transmission during the event.

Greg LR

[Too Tall]

Greg - Figures someone who RIDES their bike to excess will have the best answer ;)

Snandy - actually you can tell if the cassette is worn beyond it's servicable life by grabbing the chain and attmpting to lift it off the cassette. It is an old school tip...if you can see daylight it's worn out! Pretty scientific huh? Also, get thee a whipperman chain checking tool. Advice to use it from previous posts are right on.

[Dave]

[QUOTE=Dave]Rohloff makes a tool that is supposed to check for excessively worn cogs.
http://www.rohloff.de/en/products/hg_ig_check/index.html

I've been using the Rohloff chain wear measurement tool since the late 90s and it has worked very well in enabling me to avoid having chains 'stretch' beyond the point where the cassette also becomes so worn that a new chain skips across the cassette. http://www.rohloff.de/en/products/caliber_2/index.html

Last Wednesday I changed the chain on my brevet bike because the tool indicated it was time, then rode a 400km brevet on Saturday without any skipping or other problems (tested it out beforehand on my commute). I'd been expecting to change the chain soon because the tool indicated that the time was getting close.

The cassette on another of my bikes is now on its 4th chain, courtesy of the Rohloff tool.

In reference to Dave's comment above, I also have the Rohloff tool that measures cassette/cog wear. After using this tool prior to a major long distance brevet event a couple of years ago I decided to retire the cassette even though the new chain wasn't skipping, to ensure I didn't have problems with the transmission during the event.

Greg LR

I'm curious if you've ever compared the Rohloff chain tool measurements to those of a precision 12" scale. The problem with any of these types of tools is that it adds the wear of a roller at each end. Variations in the roller diameter and clearance with the bushing affect the readling and these variations are not relevant to measuring the chain pitch. The result is that chains are often tossed, when they could have been ridden much longer.

While it sounds great that a cassette has lasted through four chains, how many miles is that? Tossing chains every 2000 miles, for example, is pretty expensive, even using cheap chains. With nearly 6000 miles on my $40 campy 10 chain, I'm confident that none of the cogs will skip with a new chain, since the chain shows about 1/4 of the allowable elongation. If none of the cogs skip with a new chain, they won't suddenly begin skipping at some later time. That means that I can easily get 12,000 miles from a cassette, but I suspect that at least twice this mileage is quite possible.

Edit: Put a new chain on yesterday, just to check for chain skip and, as expected, there was none with only 6,000 miles on the cassette. The old chain, with 6000 miles and very little elongation, is going back on.

[flydhest]

Ten bucks from Sheldon: http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?id=800

I checked them for Campy bits. I have a worn cog on my 13-29 cassette. Anybody know a good source for spare cogs for Campy?

[Chief]

I typically run my 9-sd chains about 6,000 miles. My last cogset lasted 22,000 miles. I use Dumonde lube and make a real effort to keep the chain clean and don't ride in the rain since it seldom rains in South Texas.

[Grant McLean]

Looking at a cog to determine whether it needs replacment is POINTLESS. You CAN'T visualize when wear reaches a critical point. Manufacturers' recommendations to replace chains every "X" miles is merely to create revenue, because if you calculate your chain replacement costs versus waiting until a PERCEPTIBLE problem appears, you'll discover you've been told a lie and have been robbed.

Here's how to tell when your cogs need replacement:

Ride your bike.
Most riders' gearing is such that the largest cog is used infrequently. When you discover your chain skipping in that gear, it's time to replace your cassette. Your chain's wear will more nearly match the wear of your more frequently used cogs, so skipping will develop less often with those cogs. So, your super-worn chain won't mesh well with the seldom used cog.

Using this method, I get about 12k miles out of a cogset and chain. Using the typical "replace every 2-3k miles" methods I would be out an additional $80 +/-, take your pick.

This is not my experience.

In my opinion, waiting until "skipping" starts is like waiting until your
tires are completely threadbare bald before replacing them.

Shifting performance drops dramatically long before "skipping". If you
are riding a $4000+ serotta, replacing a chain a couple of times a year
is cheap.

-g

[GregLR]

[QUOTE=GregLR]

I'm curious if you've ever compared the Rohloff chain tool measurements to those of a precision 12" scale. The problem with any of these types of tools is that it adds the wear of a roller at each end. Variations in the roller diameter and clearance with the bushing affect the readling and these variations are not relevant to measuring the chain pitch. The result is that chains are often tossed, when they could have been ridden much longer.

While it sounds great that a cassette has lasted through four chains, how many miles is that? Tossing chains every 2000 miles, for example, is pretty expensive, even using cheap chains. With nearly 6000 miles on my $40 campy 10 chain, I'm confident that none of the cogs will skip with a new chain, since the chain shows about 1/4 of the allowable elongation. If none of the cogs skip with a new chain, they won't suddenly begin skipping at some later time. That means that I can easily get 12,000 miles from a cassette, but I suspect that at least twice this mileage is quite possible.

Before I started using the Rohloff tool I tried to measure chains against a 12" scale but it wasn't a "precision scale" and I was never sure whether I was making the right judgement. Too many times I had to junk a chain and cassette at the same time, because of new chain skip on an old cassette. I also have to admit that in the early 90s I snapped several chains while riding, which I'm convinced was due to excessive wear.

So eventually I decided to take the advice that I read in bike magazines and buy a measurement tool. While I suspect that Dave is right that I am dispensing with chains well before their usable life is up, the Rohloff tool has taken the guesswork out and I'm spending less on cassettes than I used to. And I think that I can be much more confident than I used to be that the chain & cassette are not going to fail, for example, on a long brevet or a hard ride in the mountains.

I'm afraid that I don't know how many miles I'm getting out of a chain. I have 5 road bikes that I use for different purposes, though a couple of these are generally used only on my commute (I also have an MTB). I use the same computer on 3 of the bikes (3 mounting kits), and I've long since given up trying to keep track of the distance on each chain.

Greg

[ClutchCargo]

My 13 gets a lot of use, but I'm afraid you're right. What are people's experience with Scram cassettes at half the price of a Dura Ace?

no problems noticed, either going from DA to Ult. or from either to SRAM. And the price differential between DA and the others is one of the hardest to justify, imho.

btw, my use of "imho" reminded me that I would like to know the meaning of "atmo" -- could someone illuminate? thnx.


Ride on!

[Sandy]

According to my opinion


Sandy

[ClutchCargo]

According to my opinion


Sandy

merci


Dog on!

[Sandy]

One back at you- What does btw mean?


Sandy

[ClutchCargo]

One back at you- What does btw mean?


Sandy

"by the way" (atmo)