(yet another) wheel-building question: straight-gauge spokes rear drive side?

[ceolwulf]

Maybe it's the time of year but there's a lot of wheel-building threads? Well here's another -

My plan for the rear wheel is to do radial spoking on the drive side and two-cross non-drive side, 28-hole. I intend to use Sapim Race for the non-drive side.

With the objective of increasing stiffness, would it be worth considering using straight-gauge spokes on the drive side instead of the Race 2.0/1.7? Would the increased stiffness be noticeable and/or be worth the increased risk of breakage?

[dvancleve]

My concern with using straight gauge 2.0 spokes on the drive side, with the necessary higher spoke tension, would be cracks at the spoke holes. Any double butted spoke is stretchier, so less likely to do that. Based on what I've read anyway...

Doug

P.S. Are you doing heads-in radial? Seems like that would be best.

[ceolwulf]

Heads-in yes. True that the flange would have more to deal with.

[kramnnim]

Have heard of people using Race on the DS rear and Lasers/CXrays everywhere else... Should be fine with the Race.

[Ralph]

On best hi end wheels I see (Campy and Shimano), best practice seems to be just the opposite of what you ask about. Radial on ND side and 2X (or 3X) on drive side. I know on my Campy wheels, they have radial on ND side and low flange, with 2X on drive side with a higher flange. Then off center rear rim makes for a strong wheel.

[oldpotatoe]

Maybe it's the time of year but there's a lot of wheel-building threads? Well here's another -

My plan for the rear wheel is to do radial spoking on the drive side and two-cross non-drive side, 28-hole. I intend to use Sapim Race for the non-drive side.

With the objective of increasing stiffness, would it be worth considering using straight-gauge spokes on the drive side instead of the Race 2.0/1.7? Would the increased stiffness be noticeable and/or be worth the increased risk of breakage?

Don't do it. I have seen a hub fail from the resulting twisting of the hub center doing radial drive side.

If ya want a stiff wheel use a beefier, stiffer rim. And pretty sure Race are 2mm/1.8mm/2mm. Then lace 3 cross, inside pulling drive side and 2 cross non drive side, 14/15 spokes.

Those wheels that have it this way, like Mavic wheels, the hub is designed for that.

[AngryScientist]

i dont think i've ever seen a wheel built with radial lacing on the drive side rear? doesnt make sense to do that.

pretty common to do the other way around, radial NDS, and 2x or 3x drive side.

[Lewis Moon]

i dont think i've ever seen a wheel built with radial lacing on the drive side rear? doesnt make sense to do that.

pretty common to do the other way around, radial NDS, and 2x or 3x drive side.

Same here. Is this a contrarian, have to be different thing?

[Gummee]

Same here. Is this a contrarian, have to be different thing?

If the OP's building one wheel, he can certainly build it over once he figures out it isn't a good idea...

So, having said that: Go for it! Tell us how it works out.

M

[ceolwulf]

Not a contrarian thing although with me that is fairly likely :) I learned about this in an old forum post from Tom Kellogg. The idea is that radial lacing is laterally the stiffest, so use that on the drive side where the bracing angle is the least, and rely on the non-drive side spokes to transmit power, since the hub is torsionally very stiff.

Don't do it. I have seen a hub fail from the resulting twisting of the hub center doing radial drive side.

If ya want a stiff wheel use a beefier, stiffer rim. And pretty sure Race are 2mm/1.8mm/2mm. Then lace 3 cross, inside pulling drive side and 2 cross non drive side, 14/15 spokes.

Those wheels that have it this way, like Mavic wheels, the hub is designed for that.

Okay, thanks. I had been thinking that any modern hub with a fairly large shell diameter would certainly be strong enough for this use. 2.0/1.8 yes, slip of the ... something. OK, memory.

[MikeD]

Maybe it's the time of year but there's a lot of wheel-building threads? Well here's another -



My plan for the rear wheel is to do radial spoking on the drive side and two-cross non-drive side, 28-hole. I intend to use Sapim Race for the non-drive side.



With the objective of increasing stiffness, would it be worth considering using straight-gauge spokes on the drive side instead of the Race 2.0/1.7? Would the increased stiffness be noticeable and/or be worth the increased risk of breakage?


Don't do radial on the drive side. You will have wind up problems that may break hub flanges. It's ok to do radial on the non drive side.

[PaMtbRider]

... I learned about this in an old forum post from Tom Kellogg. The idea is that radial lacing is laterally the stiffest, so use that on the drive side where the bracing angle is the least, and rely on the non-drive side spokes to transmit power, since the hub is torsionally very stiff...


Tom is a pretty sharp guy, but I think he might of missed it on this one.

[gpendergast]

If ya want a stiff wheel use a beefier, stiffer rim. And pretty sure Race are 2mm/1.8mm/2mm. Then lace 3 cross, inside pulling drive side and 2 cross non drive side, 14/15 spokes.

Those wheels that have it this way, like Mavic wheels, the hub is designed for that.

I'm with oldpotatoe here, crossing spokes are essential on the drive side of the rear wheel.

Just to clarify-- these are going to be rim brake, correct? Because disc hubs should have crossing spokes on the non-drive side as well. Same principle of minimizing stress on the hub flange, just in the opposite direction.

[ceolwulf]

Rim brake yes.

[coreywood]

2011 (I think, V3?) Zipp 188 rear hub is straight-pull radial drive-side. And Shimano made one too on the WH-T565 set. Not a fan of that idea myself, I would rather do 2-cross lacing drive-side for the added lateral stiffness over 3-cross, and with 28h the support angle of opposing spokes breaks the 180degree plane in most 3-cross situations anyway, taking away from the positive effect those spokes have on each other.

[Ligero]

I did it all the time with Powertap hubs. With a large hubshell that is very stiff it works good. https://www.flickr.com/photos/ligerowheels/3919209225/in/photolist-6mq6Er-6mue5j-6mui8y-7n9KJq-7n9LvY-6YjYmR-6YoXN7-GoVcs-GoZTK

[austex]

[...] and with 28h the support angle of opposing spokes breaks the 180degree plane in most 3-cross situations anyway, taking away from the positive effect those spokes have on each other.

:confused:Can you define/elaborate/elucidate/draw a picture, please? :confused:

Tom

[Vinci]

I have a set of Sram S60's that are radial DS and 2x NDS. It looks like Zipp does the same on some models.

I thought that was counter-intuitive too, but they ride fine.