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laupsi
12-28-2014, 08:10 AM
Baltimore, MD; 12/27/2014, Cyclist struck and killed by fleeing motorist, no charges filed to date.

This is the same neighborhood I was "doored" in September of this year. The police report from my accident came about a week after the accident and despite the officer indicating the driver was to blame the actual report blamed me for "not paying attention". Luckily for me I was not severely injured and did not have medical bills.

In this case the cyclist was killed! I know this road very well, it is the main thoroughfare in and out of Balt city, it is a school zone and the speed limit is 25 mph. The bike lane is in terrible disrepair, actually construction crews have been working on this road since last spring to redo infrastructure and repave. The road has not been paved or widened after 8 months of initiating construction. Cars routinely travel too close to cyclists, rarely yielding the 2'-3' required by law, and I'd willing to say that 999 cars out of 1000 go over the speed limit. I'd say the ave. speed by motorized vehicles is 40 mph. ···???

zap
12-28-2014, 08:27 AM
Very sad.

http://www.bikemore.net/blog/bikemore-statement-on-death-of-thomas-palermo

merlincustom1
12-28-2014, 09:14 AM
Across the hall is dark for 24 in his memory.

winmonster
12-28-2014, 09:16 AM
It's hard to say anything right now, but Tom was a great guy. My thoughts are with his family.

makoti
12-28-2014, 09:25 AM
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/north-baltimore/bs-md-ci-roland-park-fatal-bicycle-accident-20141227-story.html

More on this. At least (very least) the driver eventually came back. Horrible.

rwsaunders
12-28-2014, 09:38 AM
I didn't realize the connection to Tom Palermo...thaks for the heads up and kind thoughts to his family. They say that the driver initially left the scene then returned. When you see a photo of her windshield, I don't know she could not have known that she struck something.

merckx
12-28-2014, 09:55 AM
This is really, really sad news. My thoughts are with his family and friends.

makoti
12-28-2014, 10:16 AM
I didn't realize the connection to Tom Palermo...thaks for the heads up and kind thoughts to his family. They say that the driver initially left the scene then returned. When you see a photo of her windshield, I don't know she could not have known that she struck something.

I knew that name sounded familiar. Was this THAT Tom Palermo? Jeez.

EDIT: I just went across the hall. Apparently so. Dark for 24hrs in Honor of Tom. RIP.

fuzzalow
12-28-2014, 10:22 AM
This is terrible news and there can be no excuse for any motorist to leave the scene of an accident. The fact that she returned to the accident site does not absolve the original crime of leaving the scene.

I can hope for vehicular manslaughter charges to be files against the motorist. I can only offer heartfelt condolences to the family and friends of Thomas Palermo.

This self delusion in motorists to inflate their own skills and capabilities as drivers is IMO at the core of the escalating danger levels imposed to all on public roadways and especially to cyclists. A driver will rationalize anything rather than face the reality that they simply suck as drivers. It is always somebody else's fault - a lame reasoning to value and protect a driver's self-esteem over the rights and safety of others. Face it, the easiest way to stay stupid is to never see or admit that a mistake was made. It makes the public roadway a roller derby of danger and incompetence.

This may sound like a rant but it isn't; it is reality. And the pity is someone like Thomas, and sadly, many more to come after him, will pay with their lives. And nothing will change which is terrible ignorance to tragedy. Because the average person is too immersed in their own self interest to ever place someone else's safety and rights on equal footing with their own - even if they kill someone in the process. Hey, nobody was to blame, it was an unfortunate accident. Right?

I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore. This has to be said by not just cyclists but by motorists too. We can be better. And we can all win in the process.

abalone
12-28-2014, 11:02 AM
Information is just coming out that Baltimore custom framebuilder Tom Palermo has recently died from injuries suffered in a hit-and-run. The Baltimore Police Department is investigating and thus far, no charges have been filed on the driver.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/north-baltimore/bs-md-ci-roland-park-fatal-bicycle-accident-20141227-story.html

thwart
12-28-2014, 11:18 AM
http://static.squarespace.com/static/523b4152e4b0b1e4104edd04/t/549fa8d1e4b07419f3913262/1419749586457/?format=750w

Never knew Tom, but it's a sad day.

weisan
12-28-2014, 11:21 AM
Very sad.
My thoughts are with his loved ones and the driver involved.

ctcyclistbob
12-28-2014, 12:00 PM
This is very sad news.

From all accounts he was a talented framebuilder and supporter of cycling, and was a Dad to at least one beautiful child:

Satellite
12-28-2014, 12:27 PM
Tragic, my thoughts and prayers go out to his family.

Satellite

Vonruden
12-28-2014, 12:34 PM
Very Sad.

shinomaster
12-28-2014, 01:12 PM
Such horrible news.

David Kirk
12-28-2014, 01:50 PM
That really sucks.

dave

Wilkinson4
12-28-2014, 02:17 PM
Terrible. RIP and condolences to his family, friends, and the frame builder community. A torch burns in Heaven.

mIKE

vqdriver
12-28-2014, 02:56 PM
very sad news indeed.
RIP

mktng
12-28-2014, 03:01 PM
Damn. What crap news.
Ride safe out there everyone.
You can never be too safe.

guido
12-28-2014, 03:45 PM
He will be missed.

Llewellyn
12-28-2014, 05:50 PM
This is terrible news and there can be no excuse for any motorist to leave the scene of an accident. The fact that she returned to the accident site does not absolve the original crime of leaving the scene.

I can hope for vehicular manslaughter charges to be files against the motorist. I can only offer heartfelt condolences to the family and friends of Thomas Palermo.

This self delusion in motorists to inflate their own skills and capabilities as drivers is IMO at the core of the escalating danger levels imposed to all on public roadways and especially to cyclists. A driver will rationalize anything rather than face the reality that they simply suck as drivers. It is always somebody else's fault - a lame reasoning to value and protect a driver's self-esteem over the rights and safety of others. Face it, the easiest way to stay stupid is to never see or admit that a mistake was made. It makes the public roadway a roller derby of danger and incompetence.

This may sound like a rant but it isn't; it is reality. And the pity is someone like Thomas, and sadly, many more to come after him, will pay with their lives. And nothing will change which is terrible ignorance to tragedy. Because the average person is too immersed in their own self interest to ever place someone else's safety and rights on equal footing with their own - even if they kill someone in the process. Hey, nobody was to blame, it was an unfortunate accident. Right?

I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore. This has to be said by not just cyclists but by motorists too. We can be better. And we can all win in the process.

Can't add anything to this. Spot on.

Louis
12-28-2014, 06:17 PM
This may sound like a rant but it isn't; it is reality. And the pity is someone like Thomas, and sadly, many more to come after him, will pay with their lives. And nothing will change which is terrible ignorance to tragedy. Because the average person is too immersed in their own self interest to ever place someone else's safety and rights on equal footing with their own - even if they kill someone in the process. Hey, nobody was to blame, it was an unfortunate accident. Right?

As long as roads are perceived by 99.99% of folks as something for cars, then cyclists aren't really going to matter, whether we're killed by hit-and-run drivers or someone who stays at the scene and says "I just didn't see him." For them, distracted driving (cell phone or texting) isn't an issue either, because how many folks do it every day? Heck, how many _cyclists_ use their cell phones while driving? I bet it's most of them.

I think most drivers think that if we choose to play out in the street, then we're responsible for the consequences, whether the driver's negligent or not.

soulspinner
12-28-2014, 06:19 PM
This is terrible news and there can be no excuse for any motorist to leave the scene of an accident. The fact that she returned to the accident site does not absolve the original crime of leaving the scene.

I can hope for vehicular manslaughter charges to be files against the motorist. I can only offer heartfelt condolences to the family and friends of Thomas Palermo.

This self delusion in motorists to inflate their own skills and capabilities as drivers is IMO at the core of the escalating danger levels imposed to all on public roadways and especially to cyclists. A driver will rationalize anything rather than face the reality that they simply suck as drivers. It is always somebody else's fault - a lame reasoning to value and protect a driver's self-esteem over the rights and safety of others. Face it, the easiest way to stay stupid is to never see or admit that a mistake was made. It makes the public roadway a roller derby of danger and incompetence.

This may sound like a rant but it isn't; it is reality. And the pity is someone like Thomas, and sadly, many more to come after him, will pay with their lives. And nothing will change which is terrible ignorance to tragedy. Because the average person is too immersed in their own self interest to ever place someone else's safety and rights on equal footing with their own - even if they kill someone in the process. Hey, nobody was to blame, it was an unfortunate accident. Right?

I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore. This has to be said by not just cyclists but by motorists too. We can be better. And we can all win in the process.

Im with ya. Even argued with my attorney wife that just because she came back that's still leaving a dying man....have we no responsibility to operate these two ton hunks of mass safely? I rode outside today but tomorrow I will be a little more paranoid.....:help:

gasman
12-28-2014, 06:39 PM
Threads merged,so sad

Deucer01
12-28-2014, 06:49 PM
Prayers sent.

OtayBW
12-28-2014, 08:30 PM
Details are beginning to filter in:
https://www.baltimorebrew.com/2014/12/28/episcopal-bishop-identified-as-driver-in-fatal-bike-crash/
-- and --
https://www.baltimorebrew.com/2014/12/28/grief-and-anger-at-scene-of-fatal-bike-crash/

Apparently, the local DA is deciding whether to charge this woman or not. Whether they decide to charge her with regard to motor vehicle infraction or not, apparently Mr. Palermo was identified as being alive when this woman fled the scene. Not good....

joosttx
12-28-2014, 08:42 PM
The Driver is ID as an episcopal bishop....
A child is orphaned and a wife is widowed today. And one of my church's leaders took 20 minutes to turn around not to see if he was ok but to own her mistake....

https://www.baltimorebrew.com/2014/12/28/episcopal-bishop-identified-as-driver-in-fatal-bike-crash/

LJohnny
12-28-2014, 09:12 PM
Dang, that is terrible. 😞
I used to ride through that road out to falls road and out towards Oregon ridge park all the time when I lived in Baltimore. And to be honest, the segment on Roland park/Roland ave was the one I felt a bit at ease with car traffic. Argh...

Very sorry to hear this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

velomonkey
12-28-2014, 10:00 PM
Not only is she a church leader . . . Not only did she leave the site - she returned only because she was chased down by other bike riders!!!!!!!!

The words I want to use to express my thoughts on what type of human she is would possibly get me kicked out of the forum.

This really, really pisses me off.

Satellite
12-28-2014, 11:10 PM
Wow oh wow, Thomas was only 41 so much life left, this is just so tragic. His family has to live without him.

The driver has to live with the fact she killed someone and drove off while she could of offered aid at least a phone call for Emergency Medical Teams. Coming back to the scene of the accident doesn't resolve her of the hit and run, when she should of been seeking help for Thomas. 20 minutes is a long time when a life hangs in the balance.

Thoughts and prayers to Thomas' family,

Satellite

Bruce K
12-28-2014, 11:59 PM
News outlets now reporting the driver was an Episcopal Bishop. I missed her name but I am sure we will see it soon.

If true, it makes this even worse that she would flee the scene after the initial accident.

BK

Louis
12-29-2014, 12:19 AM
News outlets now reporting the driver was an Episcopal Bishop. I missed her name but I am sure we will see it soon.

If true, it makes this even worse that she would flee the scene after the initial accident.

Bruce, see post # 28 on Page 2 of this thread:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1677668&postcount=28

weaponsgrade
12-29-2014, 01:12 AM
So sad.

Satellite
12-29-2014, 01:40 AM
News outlets now reporting the driver was an Episcopal Bishop. I missed her name but I am sure we will see it soon.

If true, it makes this even worse that she would flee the scene after the initial accident.

BK

BK,

It gets even worse, possibly a repeat offender?:

The Brew asked Tillman if Bishop Cook is the same Heather Elizabeth Cook, 4325 Cabin Creek Road, arrested in September 2010 on drinking, driving and drug charges in Caroline County, according to this local media coverage and online court records.

The drug charges were dropped (“nolle prosequi”) in January 2012 by the Caroline County state’s attorney’s office, online records show. She received “probation before judgement” for the DUI charge.

I mean how else to you rationalize some hitting a cyclist so hard as to shatter the windshield of the car. Then just drive off while he lay dying on the side of the road. I don't pretend to know what she was thinking but it seems awful suspicious she was drinking and driving and possibly on drugs in 2010 and today she runs over a cyclist in a bike lane on a good stretch of paved road and then just leaves. It's not like she hit a squirrel or a stray dog, this was a person in broad daylight in the middle of the afternoon on a bicycle.

Ridiculous,

Satellite

pdmtong
12-29-2014, 01:51 AM
Such horrible news.

everyone of these must be like re-opening your own wound. my sympathy.
peace.

abalone
12-29-2014, 02:18 AM
.

abalone
12-29-2014, 02:33 AM
BK,

It gets even worse, possibly a repeat offender?:

The Brew asked Tillman if Bishop Cook is the same Heather Elizabeth Cook, 4325 Cabin Creek Road, arrested in September 2010 on drinking, driving and drug charges in Caroline County, according to this local media coverage and online court records.

The drug charges were dropped (“nolle prosequi”) in January 2012 by the Caroline County state’s attorney’s office, online records show. She received “probation before judgement” for the DUI charge.

I mean how else to you rationalize some hitting a cyclist so hard as to shatter the windshield of the car. Then just drive off while he lay dying on the side of the road. I don't pretend to know what she was thinking but it seems awful suspicious she was drinking and driving and possibly on drugs in 2010 and today she runs over a cyclist in a bike lane on a good stretch of paved road and then just leaves. It's not like she hit a squirrel or a stray dog, this was a person in broad daylight in the middle of the afternoon on a bicycle.

Ridiculous,

Satellite


Oh. My. God. That is incredible. She is a Catholic bishop? And has a past history of a DUI and charges on other drug possession?!

How in the world did the Catholic Church ever allow her to become the 2nd highest ranked Catholic official in the diocese? And why did the system even allow this woman to have a driver's license after her fist drunk driving arrest?

Javaman
12-29-2014, 04:21 AM
Oh. My. God. That is incredible. She is a Catholic bishop? And has a past history of a DUI and charges on other drug possession?!

How in the world did the Catholic Church ever allow her to become the 2nd highest ranked Catholic official in the diocese? And why did the system even allow this woman to have a driver's license after her fist drunk driving arrest?

I don't think Catholics allow female clergies...? Episcopal is slightly different from Catholic.

My sincere condolences to the Palermo family.

Johny
12-29-2014, 04:23 AM
So sad.
My thoughts and prayers are with Tom's family.

christian
12-29-2014, 05:48 AM
So terribly tragic. Thoughts with Tom's family.

SlowPokePete
12-29-2014, 06:56 AM
BK,

It gets even worse, possibly a repeat offender?:



.27 BAC...


http://www.myeasternshoremd.com/news/caroline_county/article_87326416-65a5-586e-b9da-99649d25bec6.html?mode=jqm

SPP

soulspinner
12-29-2014, 07:12 AM
.27 BAC...


http://www.myeasternshoremd.com/news/caroline_county/article_87326416-65a5-586e-b9da-99649d25bec6.html?mode=jqm

SPP

.27? .30 is supposedly the average threshold for consciousness!

fuzzalow
12-29-2014, 07:50 AM
This news that the motorist involved was both a member of the clergy and had a prior DUI settled administratively is like going from bad to worse. Which makes this perhaps the single occasion apropos to a phrase I never use: Oh my god!

I can almost forgive the weakness of drug & alcohol use as she is human and will be subject to human frailty in this regard. I cannot abide the utter contempt and disregard for human life she exhibited in leaving a cyclist she struck with her vehicle to die at the side of the road. Because in doing so it made her out to be a fraud at her life's work and calling: the teachings and belief of all faiths in the value and sanctity of human life. Thou shalt not kill.

No one would disparage a defense attorney as sympathetic of the moral turpitude of those that he defends. No one expects an investment portfolio manager to agree with or support the practices employed by WMT (Walmart) because he is long a position. These are tasks of the profession and they are just jobs. We do, however, demand more of those that profess to proclaim the truth. Their ability to live by the spiritual & moral compass as clergy grants them the authority to lead us in the same. Because in those truths that are the foundations of living there can be no compromises. For them it can never be just a job.

Pope Francis recently addressed the Curia and cautioned against careerism as not in keeping with the mission of the church in the service of god. Irrespective as to faith or denomination, in this regard His Holiness speaks the truth. I'd say this woman found herself a pretty good gig - speak the lines; play the part. In the moment that mattered and in the actions she took, she showed to all that it was just a job and that she was just another talking head.

OtayBW
12-29-2014, 07:55 AM
And the spin begins. From the Episcopal Bishop of Maryland:
There is an ongoing police investigation into the accident. Several news organizations have reported this as a ‘hit and run.’ Bishop Cook did leave the scene initially, but returned after about 20 minutes to take responsibility for her actions.
So glad to know that she took responsibility for her actions......:mad:
https://www.baltimorebrew.com/full-text-of-bishop-eugene-taylor-suttons-email-identifying-bishop-cook-as-driver-in-bike-crash/

It is the fleeing of the scene which is most egregious here, I think, and the situation that may well have cost Tom Palermo his life. Seems equally inexcusable to spin it any other way...

rugbysecondrow
12-29-2014, 07:59 AM
This news that the motorist involved was both a member of the clergy and had a prior DUI settled administratively is like going from bad to worse. Which makes this perhaps the single occasion apropos to a phrase I never use: Oh my god!

I can almost forgive the weakness of drug & alcohol use as she is human and will be subject to human frailty in this regard. I cannot abide the utter contempt and disregard for human life she exhibited in leaving a cyclist she struck with her vehicle to die at the side of the road. Because in doing so it made her out to be a fraud at her life's work and calling: the teachings and belief of all faiths in the value and sanctity of human life. Thou shalt not kill.

No one would disparage a defense attorney as sympathetic of the moral turpitude of those that he defends. No one expects an investment portfolio manager to agree with or support the practices employed by WMT (Walmart) because he is long a position. These are tasks of the profession and they are just jobs. We do, however, demand more of those that profess to proclaim the truth. Their ability to live by the spiritual & moral compass as clergy grants them the authority to lead us in the same. Because in those truths that are the foundations of living there can be no compromises. For them it can never be just a job.

Pope Francis recently addressed the Curia and cautioned against careerism as not in keeping with the mission of the church in the service of god. Irrespective as to faith or denomination, in this regard His Holiness speaks the truth. I'd say this woman found herself a pretty good gig - speak the lines; play the part. In the moment that mattered and in the actions she took, she showed to all that it was just a job and that she was just another talking head.

I agree with much of this.

I have been reading about this on Fb as it is local to me, and I have friends who live in that area. I also followed Tom for a while as framebuilder. I would be lying if I said stories like these don't impact my desire to road ride, they do.

She struck a man and left him to die like road kill. That is horrific, something that at a basic, human level, we wouldn't allow to happen to our enemy, but she did. I hope she is punished. I hope she is punished severely.

weisan
12-29-2014, 08:03 AM
Law pal, what you said is undisputable.

It's a historical pattern. An innocent man was once sentenced to die on a cursed tree without due process by a group of learned men who should know better.

This pattern continues till this day. Thus, Christmas.

Not digressing from the main focus of this thread: mourn with those who mourn.

christian
12-29-2014, 08:17 AM
I would be lying if I said stories like these don't impact by desire to road ride, they do.I hate to say it, but me too.

sitzmark
12-29-2014, 08:24 AM
Lives irreversibly (tragically) altered ... thoughts to both families - especially Tom's. Heartbreaking there isn't a rewind button on life for situations like this. Absolutely horrible.

Joel
12-29-2014, 08:29 AM
Open this link and scroll down to the picture of the car.

Horrible...


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2889726/Maryland-s-female-Episcopal-bishop-kills-cyclist-gruesome-hit-run.html

thwart
12-29-2014, 08:51 AM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/12/29/244F8E2C00000578-0-image-m-9_1419834221163.jpg


Yeah, I could see how someone driving might not notice that… I mean it's on the passenger's side.

We had a somewhat similar incident in the Madison area recently, an intoxicated bishop striking and killing a runner. Got 13 years in prison, IIRC.

Spaceman Spiff
12-29-2014, 09:29 AM
Ugh. After a wonderful Christmas break with friends and family, it's a harsh welcome back to reality. I hope Tom had a lovely holiday with his friends and family - it certainly ended much too soon.

jblande
12-29-2014, 09:33 AM
That is really terrible. This stuff makes me scared to ride on the road except for the early hours on the weekend (perception of risk and all that).
I don't think it makes sense to liken him to the story of Jesus, though. There is sufficient horror in the ordinary.
I hope his wife is able to find solace and his child does not suffer enduringly.

Mr. Pink
12-29-2014, 09:36 AM
Wow, I drove right by that spot yesterday. Thought, what a nice day for a ride. Yee gads. Not really an urban spot, more suburban, in an old school way.

alancw3
12-29-2014, 09:37 AM
i just hope that the legal system will not be influenced by the episcopal church AGAIN on this one. someone needs to step up to the plate here and prosecute the person who did this. i can only hope but in reality i don't think so. political pressure (the episcopal church) will prevail unfortunately and the person will again get away with a crime in this case murder. so so sad for our society.

tumbler
12-29-2014, 09:46 AM
So horrible. I really hope the driver is charged and that the charges are significantly increased for fleeing the scene. Accidents happen and nobody is perfect, drivers or cyclists, but there is no excuse for leaving someone to die on the road.

oldpotatoe
12-29-2014, 09:51 AM
i just hope that the legal system will not be influenced by the episcopal church AGAIN on this one. someone needs to step up to the plate here and prosecute the person who did this. i can only hope but in reality i don't think so. political pressure (the episcopal church) will prevail unfortunately and the person will again get away with a crime in this case murder. so so sad for our society.

Not murder but perhaps manslaughter. I would hope she was tested for alcohol/drugs and if positive test, doubt the church can keep her out of court for this but we'll see. Particularly second offense for DUI.

FlashUNC
12-29-2014, 09:57 AM
And the spin begins. From the Episcopal Bishop of Maryland:

So glad to know that she took responsibility for her actions......:mad:
https://www.baltimorebrew.com/full-text-of-bishop-eugene-taylor-suttons-email-identifying-bishop-cook-as-driver-in-bike-crash/

It is the fleeing of the scene which is most egregious here, I think, and the situation that may well have cost Tom Palermo his life. Seems equally inexcusable to spin it any other way...

Agree with all of this and much being said throughout the thread.

She may have cost Tom his life by fleeing the scene rather than trying to call 911 and render whatever aid she could have. She compounded what was already a horrible situation into something far worse.

To quote Rhett Butler, frankly, I don't give a damn she came back to the scene to "accept responsibility." She did it because she couldn't hide the massive amount of damage that she did to her own vehicle. Sickens me to think if the car looks that bad, I can't even fathom what happened to Tom...

There are moments of truth in all our lives, that when the chips are truly on the table and we see what we're made of. And she made the unconscionable, cowards choice. Which is all the more inexcusable as a spiritual leader in the community.

For the cherry on top of this crap sundae, she had a DUI case wiped away with a .27?

Throw the book at her.

velomonkey
12-29-2014, 10:04 AM
If anyone is a member of a Episcopal church in Baltimore they should talk to their church leaders and write to the head of the diocese. This is the guy that has released to a letter to the diocese that said

"Bishop Cook did leave the scene initially, but returned after about 20 minutes to take responsibility for her actions,' Right Rev. Eugene Taylor Sutton wrote Sunday in a letter addressed to the Clergy

This is fiction - he might as well said she was 8 feet tall, too. She left the scene and came back only because other witnesses, bikers themselves, chased her down. The other fact is that this woman had a driving record of being drunk and having weed in her car.

This was not an accident, this was the result of a this woman's negligence, possibly even due to intoxication, and she never came back to 'take responsibility for her actions.' First question is, you clearly hit someone and your window is smashed - ··· could you possibly be thinking - oh wait, you were probably drunk.

shovelhd
12-29-2014, 10:10 AM
The prior may not be admissible in court. In MA it would not be. Therefore she needs to be charged based on her actions. Hitting the cyclist may have been an accident but leaving the scene is not. The orhers on the ride need to make statements to the police if there is any chance of her being charged. We all know how this is going to end up. She will cop a plea and maybe do community service.

RIP.

abalone
12-29-2014, 10:24 AM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/12/29/244F8E2C00000578-0-image-m-9_1419834221163.jpg


Yeah, I could see how someone driving might not notice that… I mean it's on the passenger's side.

We had a somewhat similar incident in the Madison area recently, an intoxicated bishop striking and killing a runner. Got 13 years in prison, IIRC.




:eek: The picture of that windshield is shocking. I can't imagine what her family is going through right now. It has to be utterly devastating to hear Dad say he's going out for a bike ride at 2Pm in the afternoon and never come back. And then for that poor family to get more and more details that their father's death was senseless and should have never happened.

The church had failed Tom Palermo. That lady should have never ascended that high in the Episcopal church system given her past drunk driving record and charges with possession of other drugs.

The legal system failed Tom Palermo. There was never any real punishment for this lady for her past behavior, and as a result the system left a person who should have had her license revoked on the road.

If she gets off this time and is not punished, God help us all. There will be no justice, no fairness. The system has routinely failed riders who have been struck and killed by drivers, and the rider has never had a voice after their own death. Who will speak on behalf of Tom Palermo? The legal system? The church? God himself?

soulspinner
12-29-2014, 10:25 AM
Not murder but perhaps manslaughter. I would hope she was tested for alcohol/drugs and if positive test, doubt the church can keep her out of court for this but we'll see. Particularly second offense for DUI.

Im worried she was not tested....

alancw3
12-29-2014, 10:26 AM
Not murder but perhaps manslaughter. I would hope she was tested for alcohol/drugs and if positive test, doubt the church can keep her out of court for this but we'll see. Particularly second offense for DUI.

yes you are probably correct. manslaughter! i guess for me having had a mother killed by a drunk driver and then getting away with slap on his wrist with no jail time just gets my goat.

Black Dog
12-29-2014, 10:32 AM
Hiting him was no accident unless he swerved out in front of her at the last second or she had a mechanical failure of her car. Hitting a cyclist, or pedestrian is a result of not paying attention to your surroundings while driving. Period. No one meant to do it (hitting that is) but people allow themselves to become distracted (for any reason) and that is no accident. The word accident is very much over used to wave away the horrible consequences of poor driving. As a society we have stopped valuing life outside of moving vehicle.

oldpotatoe
12-29-2014, 10:33 AM
yes you are probably correct. manslaughter! i guess for me having had a mother killed by a drunk driver and then getting away with slap on his wrist with no jail time just gets my goat.

Sorry for your loss.

Considering all that we have seen here(I'm sure there is more to this), it is going to get complicated.

abalone
12-29-2014, 10:40 AM
Im worried she was not tested....



WHAT?! How on earth does a police officer not test a driver who does this? When they ran her license plates and driver's license they should have seen the past DUI. That would be reason enough to field sobriety test her and get a blood alcohol reading. If she wasn't tested, she won't ever be held responsible for this. Does anyone know if she was tested?

rugbysecondrow
12-29-2014, 11:03 AM
Neither one of those things impacted this accident. This lady failed Tom and his family.

:eek:

The church had failed Tom Palermo. That lady should have never ascended that high in the Episcopal church system given her past drunk driving record and charges with possession of other drugs.

The legal system failed Tom Palermo. There was never any real punishment for this lady for her past behavior, and as a result the system left a person who should have had her license revoked on the road.




If anyone is a member of a Episcopal church in Baltimore they should talk to their church leaders and write to the head of the diocese. This is the guy that has released to a letter to the diocese that said

"Bishop Cook did leave the scene initially, but returned after about 20 minutes to take responsibility for her actions,' Right Rev. Eugene Taylor Sutton wrote Sunday in a letter addressed to the Clergy

This is fiction - he might as well said she was 8 feet tall, too. She left the scene and came back only because other witnesses, bikers themselves, chased her down. The other fact is that this woman had a driving record of being drunk and having weed in her car.

This was not an accident, this was the result of a this woman's negligence, possibly even due to intoxication, and she never came back to 'take responsibility for her actions.' First question is, you clearly hit someone and your window is smashed - ··· could you possibly be thinking - oh wait, you were probably drunk.

Let's not give too much credence to what he wrote. As this is an evolving story, who knows what he knew when he originally wrote it. Also, this was an email written to other clergy about the incident...it is not an official record of events. It seems like poor journalism for it to be reported as an account of events.

We can be angry about this, but let's not be fanatical in how we respond to information.

velomonkey
12-29-2014, 11:34 AM
Let's not give too much credence to what he wrote. As this is an evolving story, who knows what he knew when he originally wrote it. Also, this was an email written to other clergy about the incident...it is not an official record of events. It seems like poor journalism for it to be reported as an account of events.

We can be angry about this, but let's not be fanatical in how we respond to information.


Incorrect - this was an official communication by the church to other church leaders. I am being factual. It has been re-published. The letter, if you read it, was to help change the narrative because news agencies were reporting it as a "hit and run" - so the communication went out that it was not a hit run and that she came back to accept responsibility. This is false.

Look, like it or not - churches protect themselves just like any other entity. This lady is a leader of a church and while she may or may not have been driving her car on official church business - the entirety of her life's work is telling people, no, preaching to people, how to live their life. I don't care about words, I care about actions and her actions were in no way christian. FACT.

OtayBW
12-29-2014, 11:49 AM
^^ The only things I see going on here that seem overly reactionary or 'fanatical' are 1) that this woman drove off and fled the scene of a fatal accident, 2) the Bishop's sense of what it takes to 'accept responsibility' for such an act.

bking
12-29-2014, 11:50 AM
Has it been determined she is the same individual that had the prior dui? i didn't think that had been established yet.

shovelhd
12-29-2014, 12:02 PM
Hiting him was no accident unless he swerved out in front of her at the last second or she had a mechanical failure of her car. Hitting a cyclist, or pedestrian is a result of not paying attention to your surroundings while driving. Period. No one meant to do it (hitting that is) but people allow themselves to become distracted (for any reason) and that is no accident. The word accident is very much over used to wave away the horrible consequences of poor driving. As a society we have stopped valuing life outside of moving vehicle.

Since we don't have the facts or clear witness testimony, my statement stands.

abalone
12-29-2014, 12:05 PM
Neither one of those things impacted this accident. This lady failed Tom and his family.

We can be angry about this, but let's not be fanatical in how we respond to information.


I agree that the lady failed Tom Palermo, but there is absolutely nothing fanatical in believing that this accident should have never occurred. 1- This lady was never appropriately punished for her past DUI. And 2- The church should have known about her past moral turpitude and she should have never been allowed to attain Bishop status.

Further, her actions of leaving the scene after hitting Tom shows that she was a fraud. in choosing between the righteous values of helping others, she chose to leave a dieing man. That's unconscionable.

EDS
12-29-2014, 12:06 PM
Horrible news and my thoughts and condolences go out to Tom's family, friends and loved ones.

Does the episcopal church believe in the eternal flames of hell?

firerescuefin
12-29-2014, 12:15 PM
Her conduct was disgusting and abhorrent by any moral or religious measure.

Would be a shame to derail and close this thread because people have an axe to grind.

StephenCL
12-29-2014, 12:15 PM
I really have no words. I knew Tom...he was local and this just really, really hurts....

Nothing left to say...

slidey
12-29-2014, 12:24 PM
I have a lot to say about the driver - especially given the specimen's religious 'connections', which I fully expect to come to her aid and get her nothing more than a suspended license for a couple of years.

However, the above is only what I expect of the system.

For now, let me just say that I hope, against all odds, that the grieving members of Tom Palermo's family are able to overcome this as completely, and as soon as is possible.

abalone
12-29-2014, 12:25 PM
Her conduct was disgusting and abhorrent by any moral or religious measure.

Would be a shame to close this thread because people have an axe to grind.




Why even suggest closing this thread? Nobody here has any axe to grind. I've read a lot of disbelief and outrage over this incident. As cyclists, why wouldn't any of us not be outraged by this hit-and-run. This could have happened to any of us. And what about Tom Palermo? As cyclists ourselves, we should voice our opinion not suppress it! If we don't speak out for him, who will? The legal system? The church?

To the mods, you should not ever close a thread seeking fairness and justice for your brethren. While I may not know Tom Palermo, I have seen his work and craftsmanship. I have read about him being a loving father to a little girl. his family surely must be grieving now. They deserve privacy. But to suppress others who are simply expressing a want for justice for his family is to suppress justice for Tom.

abalone
12-29-2014, 12:25 PM
Has it been determined she is the same individual that had the prior dui? i didn't think that had been established yet.


Yes. At least two major news outlets, the Baltimore Sun and CBS News, have confirmed that she indeed has a past drunk driving DUI record and charges of possession of marijuana and other drugs.

The story is getting some national and international attention also probably because of the fact that she is a religious devout leader in the Episcopal diocese, had a past DUI, and that she basically left Tom Palermo out to die after hitting him.

International Press -
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2889726/Maryland-s-female-Episcopal-bishop-kills-cyclist-gruesome-hit-run.html

slidey
12-29-2014, 12:27 PM
I don't care about words, I care about actions and her actions were in no way christian. FACT.

Forget religion(s), her actions were inhumane.

Mr. Pink
12-29-2014, 12:33 PM
Man, the last person I would expect to do me in is a female pastor in an old Subaru, in broad daylight.

fuzzalow
12-29-2014, 12:44 PM
Man, the last person I would expect to do me in is a female pastor in an old Subaru, in broad daylight.

I read this at a glance and it read to me as: "Man, the last person I would expect to do me in is a female impastor in an old Subaru, in broad daylight."

It is impolite of me to say that in some of the photos of her that the news outlets have run, it did look as indeed the case! HaHa! Charge me with bad taste, I'll lay myself down as guilty!

m_sasso
12-29-2014, 12:45 PM
My guess is intoxication, speed, look at the damage to the car, didn't happen at 25mph, nonattendance and irresponsibility all played a part in the running down and slaughter of Tom.

It is not a pleasant closing, however at the end Tom was likely doing what he loved and if I had a choice in my leaving, I envy Tom's last hour.

My thought, sympathy and compassion going out to Toms family and friends.

goonster
12-29-2014, 01:00 PM
The church had failed Tom Palermo. That lady should have never ascended that high in the Episcopal church system given her past drunk driving record and charges with possession of other drugs.
Perhaps, but the church is not in a position to rescind her license, and that is what it would have taken to prevent this tragedy.

It is not a pleasant closing, however at the end Tom was likely doing what he loved and if I had a choice in my leaving, I envy Tom's last hour.
The man leaves behind a four year-old daughter. There is no good way to spin this. It is a terrible, terrible, senseless loss.

velomonkey
12-29-2014, 01:11 PM
I still have lots to say about the culprit. Tons.

For the victim, Tom, I just wish I could give his family a hug, a shoulder to cry on and an ear to listen.

So, so tragic and completely senseless.

rugbysecondrow
12-29-2014, 01:25 PM
I agree that the lady failed Tom Palermo, but there is absolutely nothing fanatical in believing that this accident should have never occurred. 1- This lady was never appropriately punished for her past DUI. And 2- The church should have known about her past moral turpitude and she should have never been allowed to attain Bishop status.

Further, her actions of leaving the scene after hitting Tom shows that she was a fraud. in choosing between the righteous values of helping others, she chose to leave a dieing man. That's unconscionable.

My man, who is saying this is not unconscionable? My point, we don't revoke driving privileges forever for a first offense DUI. It didn't happen for her and it wouldn't happen for you. Her ascension in the church has nothing to do with her striking and killing a man anymore than you getting a promotion at work has anything to do with your activity outside of work.

So again, we can be mad, but why attack the church or the legal system when, in fact, the system seems to be working the way it is supposed to. Neither the system or the church failed Tom, this lady did.


Incorrect - this was an official communication by the church to other church leaders. I am being factual. It has been re-published. The letter, if you read it, was to help change the narrative because news agencies were reporting it as a "hit and run" - so the communication went out that it was not a hit run and that she came back to accept responsibility. This is false.



You are registering that different than me. My point was not to parse the mans language, but to say that it is not an official record of anything. It is being reported, repeatedly, because there is little else to report as details. Facts have not been released. You are assuming the Bishop is purposefully lying, I am assuming that he released the statement with information he had at the time.

I hope this lady is punished severely. The thought of people in our society who could kill and evade like this is sickening. All that said, it is not productive to burn everything around this lady and blame others because we are angry. We have to let the information come out and push for meaningful action.

unterhausen
12-29-2014, 01:33 PM
I don't remember ever meeting Tom, but we certainly interacted online. When I saw this news I was physically ill. I am beside myself with rage that someone can be so callous while driving.

abalone
12-29-2014, 01:36 PM
So again, we can be mad, but why attack the church or the legal system when, in fact, the system seems to be working the way it is supposed to. Neither the system or the church failed Tom, this lady did.






Nobody here is saying that this lady isn't responsible for this incident. So, why keep suggesting that she alone is responsible. She wasn't adequately punished for her 1st DUI offense and charges of other drugs. Secondly, the church was wrong to allow the promotion of this lady to the 2nd highest position in the diocese. There must be, or should be, a set of criteria that disallows individuals with past indiscretions of moral turpitude the promotion to such a high ranking within the church system. Bottom line - she is a fraud. And the church should have known about her past DUI and drug charges before allowing her to attain Bishop status. Are we to allow child molesters the ability to become church leaders?

firerescuefin
12-29-2014, 01:40 PM
Nobody here is saying that this lady isn't responsible for this incident. So, why keep suggesting that she alone is responsible. She wasn't adequately punished for her 1st DUI offense and charges of other drugs. Secondly, the church was wrong to allow the promotion of this lady to the 2nd highest position in the diocese. There must be, or should be, a set of criteria that disallows individuals with past indiscretions of moral turpitude the promotion to such a high ranking within the church system. Bottom line - she is a fraud. And the church should have known about her past DUI and drug charges before allowing her to attain Bishop status. Are we to allow child molesters the ability to become church leaders?

So this has become an argument about who the church promotes. :help: BTW, I don't disagree with what you said.

I am interested if she received preferential treatment. If so, I hope they burn everyone in that chain. I can tell you, there are quite a few people that are driving legally that have been convicted of alcohol and drug offenses while driving. If that outrages you (and I'm not saying it shouldn't), then I'd advise you to get involved in the process.

jblande
12-29-2014, 01:42 PM
If there is one thing being raised in a religious community convinced me of it's that all human beings are cut from the same cloth.

slidey
12-29-2014, 01:50 PM
Neither the system or the church failed Tom, this lady did.

I tend to think that the system itself is failed, in this case, the church's one more than the govt dept, which is why this opportunist could slip through. I don't blame her for wanting to, and then getting promoted to whatever post that she holds, etc. I however, squarely blame the churchy system that promoted her at the very least for being totally slipshod in basic background checks, or at the worst for being too callous with handing over the reins to a position of some power/influence (to those to whom it matters) to someone who's been busy painting her past with colourful hues as recently as 4 years back(?). Where's the sense/accountability in that especially in today's world when seemingly no one else offers you a job without a thorough background, as well as a drug offense check (both of which she'd have failed)?!

cash05458
12-29-2014, 01:50 PM
"And the church should have known about her past DUI and drug charges before allowing her to attain Bishop status. Are we to allow child molesters the ability to become church leaders?"

How did we get from a DUI to child molesters?

my guess is that if she really did have a DUI on her record, there is no way in hell the police did not give her a field check...here in Vermont, that is routine if you have any record...and if the slightest bit of alcohol is in your system...the slightest, you are gonna be hit pretty hard if someone is injured or died...let this play out...if true about the past DUI, she will most likely be going to jail just given the fact she left the scene...

these sorta thing WON'T stop me from riding...no way...

My deep condolences to the family...

rugbysecondrow
12-29-2014, 02:18 PM
I tend to think that the system itself is failed, in this case, the church's one more than the govt dept, which is why this opportunist could slip through. I don't blame her for wanting to, and then getting promoted to whatever post that she holds, etc. I however, squarely blame the churchy system that promoted her at the very least for being totally slipshod in basic background checks, or at the worst for being too callous with handing over the reins to a position of some power/influence (to those to whom it matters) to someone who's been busy painting her past with colourful hues as recently as 4 years back(?). Where's the sense/accountability in that especially in today's world when seemingly no one else offers you a job without a thorough background, as well as a drug offense check (both of which she'd have failed)?!



I don't disagree with what your point,but it has no bearing on the collision. Abaline wrote, the "Church failed Tom", that "The system failed Tom". Her being promoted as a priest has nothing to do with him being struck by her and left for dead. Whether she should have been promoted or not is a completely different discussion, but it doesn't have bearing on the collision. As for the legal system, what else would we have asked of it?

slidey
12-29-2014, 02:32 PM
I don't disagree with what your point,but it has no bearing on the collision. Abaline wrote, the "Church failed Tom", that "The system failed Tom". Her being promoted as a priest has nothing to do with him being struck by her and left for dead. Whether she should have been promoted or not is a completely different discussion, but it doesn't have bearing on the collision. As for the legal system, what else would we have asked of it?

Ah, I see your point. Yes, I agree - the two events, as you say, are independent.

I'm conflating my expectation of her going relatively scot-free on the grounds of her 'elevated' status, and thus undermining the most basic premise of law - everyone should be treated equally. Well, we'll see about this once it comes down to it - I really hope I am proven to be a cynic on this front.

Mr. Pink
12-29-2014, 02:43 PM
I read this at a glance and it read to me as: "Man, the last person I would expect to do me in is a female impastor in an old Subaru, in broad daylight."

It is impolite of me to say that in some of the photos of her that the news outlets have run, it did look as indeed the case! HaHa! Charge me with bad taste, I'll lay myself down as guilty!

Well, you know that whole stereotype about older women driving Subarus........

abalone
12-29-2014, 03:05 PM
I don't disagree with what your point,but it has no bearing on the collision. Abaline wrote, the "Church failed Tom", that "The system failed Tom". Her being promoted as a priest has nothing to do with him being struck by her and left for dead. Whether she should have been promoted or not is a completely different discussion, but it doesn't have bearing on the collision. As for the legal system, what else would we have asked of it?


So what? This is not a court, and we are not evaluating whether or not a judge or jury is going to find this woman guilty. We are offering opinions. You have an opinion that the system and church are not to blame. I do not necessarily agree with the notion that the system did not fail Tom Palermo. It's arguable on the church issue, but I concede that point.

The system failed Tom. That's my opinion. Did the system do it's job the 1st go around when this driver drove drunk? My opinion is no. I've already stated that the Church wasn't to blame for this accident, so the Church didn't technically fail Tom in the way that this lady did. Doesn't take away the opinion of mine and others that this lady is a fraud, and should have never attained the 2nd highest rank of within the diocese.

cash05458
12-29-2014, 03:19 PM
So what? This is not a court, and we are not evaluating whether or not a judge or jury is going to find this woman guilty. We are offering opinions. You have an opinion that the system and church are not to blame. I do not necessarily agree with the notion that the system did not fail Tom Palermo. It's arguable on the church issue, but I concede that point.

The system failed Tom. That's my opinion. Did the system do it's job the 1st go around when this driver drove drunk? My opinion is no. I've already stated that the Church wasn't to blame for this accident, so the Church didn't technically fail Tom in the way that this lady did. Doesn't take away the opinion of mine and others that this lady is a fraud, and should have never attained the 2nd highest rank of within the diocese.

well, be that as it may...unless you believe that anyone with a single dui should never hold a driving license or a job, then I would disagree with you...what happened is terrible and yes, the fact that she is a bishop holds moral implications...but condemning an entire church and system structure because of that seems overdone...

Bruce K
12-29-2014, 03:25 PM
The bottom line is that a woman with a previous DUI, who managed to get off relatively scot free, hit and killed a person (in this case a cyclist) and drove away with total disregard for the life she affected and ultimately ended.

It is not a religious/religion issue.

The fact that she attained a high office after her first offense is not necessarily the issue either, ever heard of forgiveness/repentance?

The fact that she continued with the behavior is clearly not in keeping with that office is certainly open for debate and is an issue for the Baltimore diocese and not necessarily the Episcopal church as a whole, unless this is a wide-spread issue within that church (something that at this point is a mighty big stretch).

Let's try to keep this out of the religion realm so that we can continue to discuss the more pressing issue of cycling safety.

BK

Chris
12-29-2014, 03:26 PM
well, be that as it may...unless you believe that anyone with a single dui should never hold a driving license

Let me start by saying that I don't know exactly where I fall on this issue, although I have nothing but contempt for people who get behind the wheel of a vehicle while intoxicated. On a cycling board where the majority hold the position that if someone who dopes should be kicked out of the sport permanently, for consistency sake, I would expect that those who hold that opinion might also expect for someone with a DUI to lose their driving privileges permanently. All I know is that we have a system that continues to let even the most egregious violators back behind the wheel and invariably some innocent person is killed. It just fills me with rage that such a lack of respect for others allows people to behave in such a way. If she was, in fact, intoxicated, then I wish nothing but misery for her for the remainder of her life.

cash05458
12-29-2014, 03:34 PM
Let me start by saying that I don't know exactly where I fall on this issue, although I have nothing but contempt for people who get behind the wheel of a vehicle while intoxicated. On a cycling board where the majority hold the position that if someone who dopes should be kicked out of the sport permanently, for consistency sake, I would expect that those who hold that opinion might also expect for someone with a DUI to lose their driving privileges permanently. All I know is that we have a system that continues to let even the most egregious violators back behind the wheel and invariably some innocent person is killed. It just fills me with rage that such a lack of respect for others allows people to behave in such a way. If she was, in fact, intoxicated, then I wish nothing but misery for her for the remainder of her life.


look...I am not sure what sorta society you want to have...but you certainly do come off as seeming to know exactly "where you are on this issue"but I personally do not want what you are talking about...I guess the one strike and you are out philo works for you in a lot of areas...it does not for me...to be honest, I have a DUI from a long time ago...I had 4 beers, never hurt anyone and am now a very productive member of my community years later...why on earth do some folks take this tragic thing to then grind axes like this? and if you want to talk morals, I doubt it is helping anyone who knew Tom by using this as an opportunity to do this...just a thought...what happened was a real tragedy, and hopefully the woman in question will be well punished...so at this point, we have brought in pedophiles, cycling doping, condemnation of both a very well respected church and the justice system without any knowledge of what in fact this woman is going to be charged with...anything else folks want to toss in here over a horrible tragedy?

OtayBW
12-29-2014, 03:34 PM
Fail a drug test during a standard background check and I assure you that these days, many/most employers will not hire you. Blow 0.27 on a breathalyzer and go to court for it - irrespective of whether or not you've been granted "probation before judgement" as she was previously - and I assure you that I would not be ascending to the Executive Vice-Presidency of my company. I'd be lucky if I didn't 'ascend' straight to the unemployment line.

My opinion: she was granted tacit - if not explicit - approval for her actions that would have gotten most of us canned. Some might call that enabling.

abalone
12-29-2014, 03:35 PM
well, be that as it may...unless you believe that anyone with a single dui should never hold a driving license or a job, then I would disagree with you...what happened is terrible and yes, the fact that she is a bishop holds moral implications...but condemning an entire church and system structure because of that seems overdone...



I never said that a person with a DUI should never ever hold a driver's license and a job. And I never condemned an ENTIRE church system. That's bunk.

However, did this lady receive adequate punishment the 1st go around for her DUI? I don't think she did. If the system did its job, then perhaps we SHOULD, as a society, change the laws and make it stiffer and penalize citizens more for 1st offenses. Considering that she not only had a DUI, but blew over 3X the legal limit and was also charged with other drug offenses, a stronger case should have been made to get this lady off the roads. Thus, even if the argument was that the system worked, then I would still argue that the system is broken and in essence didn't work. Thus, the system still failed Tom Palermo.

The church still should never allow such a person with compromised moral behavior attain such a high ranking status within that diocese. This is not a condemnation of the church system as a whole, but I would certainly be critical of the church organization of that Episcopal diocese of Maryland that allowed an admitted DUI offender, and yes Court records show she did admit to it, to be allowed such a high position. Everyone deserves second chances, but when a family loses a father and husband to a person already convicted of a drunk driving offense, questions must be answered.

SpokeValley
12-29-2014, 03:40 PM
https://www.baltimorebrew.com/2014/12/28/grief-and-anger-at-scene-of-fatal-bike-crash/

And, here's the culprit, a repeat offender: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/12/29/woman-became-baltimores-first-episcopalian-bishop-but-the-serious-thing-shes-accused-of-doing-is-reportedly-at-least-her-second-run-in-with-police/


No comment here except sadness and prayers for his family, but when I was active in the Episcopal church, the running joke was (and it was likely appropriated from another faith):

"Wherever you find 3 or 4 Episcopalians gathered, there's always a fifth."

Chris
12-29-2014, 03:40 PM
look...I am not sure what sorta society you want to have...but I personally do not want what you are talking about...I guess the one strike and you are out philo works for you in a lot of areas...it does not for me...to be honest, I have a DUI from a long time ago...I had 4 beers, never hurt anyone and am now a very productive member of my community years later...why on earth do some folks take this tragic thing to then grind axes like this? and if you want to talk morals, I doubt it is helping anyone who knew Tom by using this as an opportunity to do this...just a thought...what happened was a real tragedy, and hopefully the woman in question will be well punished...

I'm not grinding any axes. I said at the beginning of the post that I don't know where I stand on the issue of DUI penalties. My response was to you bringing that topic up. My point is that if you are intoxicated while driving and you take someone's life, like Tom's or any of the countless others who have been killed by idiots who get behind the wheel after drinking too much (and if that hits to close to home for you then so be it...) then the punishment should fit the crime and not be chalked up as an accident or some form of negligence. That person's choice led them to be in that situation. That's no accident.

William
12-29-2014, 03:43 PM
So sad. My condolences to his family and friends.






William

cash05458
12-29-2014, 03:44 PM
"I would expect that those who hold that opinion might also expect for someone with a DUI to lose their driving privileges permanently."


excuse me?


listen, I am done...but I don't think hysterical morality helps here...a good man was killed on the road and left family behind...to take it somewhere else is a little beyond the pale...I don't think it helps...give it some time...the system you say is so awful will prolly make her pay and my guess will be hard as she left the scene and has a previous problem..I am hoping for that as well...but not jumping to conclusions as to the end...

soulspinner
12-29-2014, 03:45 PM
If there is one thing being raised in a religious community convinced me of it's that all human beings are cut from the same cloth.

Bam. There it is.

William
12-29-2014, 03:51 PM
Twenty minutes: Twenty minutes is an eternity in a situation like this where every second lost before help can arrive can mean the difference between life and death. The fact that the perpetrator of this act "came back" to the scene twenty minutes later is moot. Help rendered immediately could have made a difference. Factor in this person's profession and it's doubly egregious.





William

OtayBW
12-29-2014, 03:53 PM
Help rendered immediately could have made a difference. Factor in this person's profession and it's doubly egregious.

Bam. There it is.
+1. Sorry if I'm mixing metaphors....

Chris
12-29-2014, 04:01 PM
"I would expect that those who hold that opinion might also expect for someone with a DUI to lose their driving privileges permanently."


excuse me?


listen, I am done...but I don't think hysterical morality helps here...a good man was killed on the road and left family behind...to take it somewhere else is a little beyond the pale...I don't think it helps...give it some time...the system you say is so awful will prolly make her pay and my guess will be hard as she left the scene and has a previous problem..I am hoping for that as well...but not jumping to conclusions as to the end...

I'm happy to have you "done" as it seemed you were spoiling for a fight. Maybe I should have worded it as "I would hypothesize" that those that held that view here (again...not my view) would not have a problem with a lifetime loss of privilege. I will own up to a poor choice in the word "expect."

Want to bet a week's salary on how much she has to "pay?"

velomonkey
12-29-2014, 04:11 PM
You are registering that different than me. My point was not to parse the mans language, but to say that it is not an official record of anything. It is being reported, repeatedly, because there is little else to report as details. Facts have not been released. You are assuming the Bishop is purposefully lying, I am assuming that he released the statement with information he had at the time.

I hope this lady is punished severely. The thought of people in our society who could kill and evade like this is sickening. All that said, it is not productive to burn everything around this lady and blame others because we are angry. We have to let the information come out and push for meaningful action.

I'm sorry, but you are just picking and choosing to serve your own point. Cook's first DUI was in 2010 almost, to the day, 4 years after she became Bishop. My only speculation I will make is that I bet she partied celebrating her anniversary. She was well, well, well above the legal limit. She endangered lives and she humiliated her church - man, she had a pot bong in her car for crimes sake. The church issued no sanctions.

Now she kills someone and the churn instead of just saying "we have sanctioned her are we pray for the victim's family" the church instead used a whole paragraph of their 3 paragraph official statement to say "this wasn't a hit and run - she came back to accept her responsibility." Talk all you want, but that is FALSE. Furthermore, it is just bad form to try to protect yourself when something so horrible has happened. Finally, she had a record of doing crap like this and the church continued to promote her. Fail. Fail. Fail.

Bro, there were witnesses there - they saw her hit him, they saw her leave, they saw Tom was alive. I never said the Bishop lied, I said the Bishop is protecting his church when, in fact, his snd in charge killed someone and left the scene.

Old rule: when you're in a hole, stop digging.

cash05458
12-29-2014, 04:14 PM
Twenty minutes: Twenty minutes is an eternity in a situation like this where every second lost before help can arrive can mean the difference between life and death. The fact that the perpetrator of this act "came back" to the scene twenty minutes later is moot. Help rendered immediately could have made a difference. Factor in this person's profession and it's doubly egregious.





William

I agree entirely...leave the scene...you are in big trouble...drive back...well, maybe a lesser jail sentence, but a jail sentence indeed...and cetainly with a previous DUI this should add on...

R3awak3n
12-29-2014, 04:44 PM
4 years is a long time, you can turn your life around. To me, what she did 4 years a go doesn't matter, was she drunk or high this time around? probably not.

The problem has nothing to do with her past, someone with no DUIs could have done the same thing. The problem is that ···· hit someone and then she magnified the problem by leaving the scene. It is absolutely crazy to me for someone to hit a human being and then leave. If she hit a parked car and left, that is crappy but ok but hitting someone and leaving just doesnt make sense to me. The fact that she came back doesnt help the situation to me because Tom died, she could have made a difference but she decided to be selfish.

The biggest pain in this is to his family and its really really sad.
Jail or not for the woman that hit him, she is already paying for what she did and will have this in her conscience for the rest of her life.


Be careful out there everyone, not just on your bikes.

abalone
12-29-2014, 04:44 PM
Twenty minutes: Twenty minutes is an eternity in a situation like this where every second lost before help can arrive can mean the difference between life and death. The fact that the perpetrator of this act "came back" to the scene twenty minutes later is moot. Help rendered immediately could have made a difference. Factor in this person's profession and it's doubly egregious.



William


There are reports from other cyclists that it was more like 45+ minutes before she returned, if you want to call it that. She drove completely away from the scene passing several other people and going into her home in a gated community before she was confronted by some people who followed her and only then did she return.

The lady's boss at the church, an even higher ranking official, is spinning it and saying she "initially" left the scene and then returned, as if doing so absolves her of some sort of wrongdoing. It's like saying, I "initially" left work yesterday at 5PM only to return next morning at 8AM. Nobody says that. The lady left the scene. It is a hit-and-run.

R3awak3n
12-29-2014, 04:48 PM
yeah there is no way around it, even if she left and came back 5 minutes later. In a situation like this there is absolutely 0 excuses.

kevinvc
12-29-2014, 04:52 PM
By the way....



Not to be overly PC, but this is entirely inappropriate. It is offensive at face value, insensitive by any standard and has nothing to do with this thread / discussion. It would not belong in a "funny thread" and sure as hell doesn't belong in this one.

Please remove it and think twice next time before doing something so flagrantly stupid.

buldogge
12-29-2014, 04:57 PM
...or...Was she high/drunk and decided to burn some time off before facing the authorities???

On the issue of her religious affiliation...priests/reverends/pastors/bishops/swamis/whatever can't have it both ways...they can't "demand" certain greater respects and then ignore certain greater "responsibilities"...morally or socially.

-Mark in St. Louis

4 years is a long time, you can turn your life around. To me, what she did 4 years a go doesn't matter, was she drunk or high this time around? probably not.

The problem has nothing to do with her past, someone with no DUIs could have done the same thing. The problem is that ···· hit someone and then she magnified the problem by leaving the scene. It is absolutely crazy to me for someone to hit a human being and then leave. If she hit a parked car and left, that is crappy but ok but hitting someone and leaving just doesnt make sense to me. The fact that she came back doesnt help the situation to me because Tom died, she could have made a difference but she decided to be selfish.

The biggest pain in this is to his family and its really really sad.
Jail or not for the woman that hit him, she is already paying for what she did and will have this in her conscience for the rest of her life.


Be careful out there everyone, not just on your bikes.

R3awak3n
12-29-2014, 04:59 PM
maybe Mark but until we know if she was drunk/high its hard for me to judge her on her past actions.

But yes she could have left to hide evidence. I hope the police breathalyzed her, an hour is not enough to hide that.

cash05458
12-29-2014, 05:03 PM
There are reports from other cyclists that it was more like 45+ minutes before she returned, if you want to call it that. She drove completely away from the scene passing several other people and going into her home in a gated community before she was confronted by some people who followed her and only then did she return.

The lady's boss at the church, an even higher ranking official, is spinning it and saying she "initially" left the scene and then returned, as if doing so absolves her of some sort of wrongdoing. It's like saying, I "initially" left work yesterday at 5PM only to return next morning at 8AM. Nobody says that. The lady left the scene. It is a hit-and-run.



sorry, but I think you should hold off on this stuff...let the authorities do their work...there are lots of ways to do blood and hair work...they will do that...seriously , why are you trying to pull "high ranking officials" from the church into this...just let it play out would you...you are jumping to som many conclusions about alot of things and assuming this is some giant cover up...I don't think this helps those hurt yet...give it time...Jeff

christian
12-29-2014, 05:05 PM
Not to be overly PC, but this is entirely inappropriate. It is offensive at face value, insensitive by any standard and has nothing to do with this thread / discussion. It would not belong in a "funny thread" and sure as hell doesn't belong in this one.

Please remove it and think twice next time before doing something so flagrantly stupid.

Recurring theme for ultraman, alas. I'd suggest you report the post by clicking the triangle traffic sign in the upper right. (I have.)

mosca
12-29-2014, 05:17 PM
My anger just builds as I read more details of this incident, but then I imagine Tom's family and friends reading this thread, and all I want to say is how sorry I am to hear this news. I enjoyed his posts across the hall; he seemed to have a great dry sense of humor and his work looked really nice. My condolences.

abalone
12-29-2014, 05:20 PM
sorry, but I think you should hold off on this stuff...let the authorities do their work...there are lots of ways to do blood and hair work...they will do that...seriously , why are you trying to pull "high ranking officials" from the church into this...just let it play out would you...you are jumping to som many conclusions about alot of things and assuming this is some giant cover up...I don't think this helps those hurt yet...give it time...Jeff



I wasn't going to bring this up, but you're suggestions to others of your opinion has gone from just giving your opinion to telling others, myself included, not to give our opinions. You said you were "done" like Another forum poster Chris had mentioned a few posts ago.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you did admit to also having a DUI on your record so it's not much of a surprise that you are not as critical, and even sympathetic to a point, of the actions of the lady that killed Tom.

cash05458
12-29-2014, 05:24 PM
I wasn't going to bring this up, but you're suggestions to others of your opinion has gone from just giving your opinion to telling others, myself included, not to give our opinions. You said you were "done" like Another forum poster Chris had mentioned a few posts ago.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you did admit to also having a DUI on your record so it's not much of a surprise that you are not as critical, and even sympathetic to a point, of the actions of the lady that killed Tom.



wow! congrats!!!! that is incredible...

cash05458
12-29-2014, 05:28 PM
I wasn't going to bring this up, but you're suggestions to others of your opinion has gone from just giving your opinion to telling others, myself included, not to give our opinions. You said you were "done" like Another forum poster Chris had mentioned a few posts ago.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you did admit to also having a DUI on your record so it's not much of a surprise that you are not as critical, and even sympathetic to a point, of the actions of the lady that killed Tom.

way to take over a post of a memorial for a good man who has died...you got it out yet? congrats...christ...feel morally justified with your ····ing bull···· yet?

laupsi
12-29-2014, 05:28 PM
never met Tom personally but feel obligated to show my support and concern by attending the funeral home Friday. for anyone who lives in the mid-atlantic region and has the time to attend, going may be the best way to show your support and sympathy for Tom, his family and the state of cyclists rights in this nation we call home.



Ruck Funeral Home in Towson on Friday, Jan 2 from 4-7pm
Service at Immaculate Conception in Towson on Saturday, Jan 3 at 10am

gasman
12-29-2014, 05:37 PM
Okay everyone let's not start with personal attacks. You know the rules.
A lot of people have heat about this incident, I know I do. In the meantime locals can do what they can to make sure this is not glossed over.
The rest of us can only offer condolences to the family-a grieving wife and a young daughter left behind. So sad.

mister
12-29-2014, 05:39 PM
"And the church should have known about her past DUI and drug charges before allowing her to attain Bishop status. Are we to allow child molesters the ability to become church leaders?"

How did we get from a DUI to child molesters?

my guess is that if she really did have a DUI on her record, there is no way in hell the police did not give her a field check...here in Vermont, that is routine if you have any record...and if the slightest bit of alcohol is in your system...the slightest, you are gonna be hit pretty hard if someone is injured or died...let this play out...if true about the past DUI, she will most likely be going to jail just given the fact she left the scene...

these sorta thing WON'T stop me from riding...no way...

My deep condolences to the family...

i'm gonna say it right now, and i hope i'm wrong, i bet she didn't get any kind of field sobriety or breath test.
that part about the charges for a DUI and drug posession being dropped after she completed probation is definitely not normal around these parts.
so if the charges are dropped does it come up as a prior to a quick check at the scene...
atmo it's looking real bad for any kind of charges at this point...it really sucks.

RIP Tom.

Tom
12-29-2014, 05:53 PM
I hope that I am not being disrespectful to Mr. Palermo when I write this. I am feeling sorrow and rage and anger and I have to make this point.

The worst part is I know exactly why the driver fled. They've been through the system already and knew that if you test positive after you return you can claim it is because you panicked and ran and were distraught and had a drink to steady yourself before you came back and nobody in the world can prove otherwise.

DUI and vehicular homicide separate is way better than DUI and vehicular homicide connected. We're talking an informed criminal here.

Like somebody said, blowing nearly point three oh takes practice.

Louis
12-29-2014, 06:00 PM
Like somebody said, blowing nearly point three oh takes practice.

Agreed, but just to clarify for others who may be getting the two situations confused, the 0.27 was the other incident we know about. We don't know for sure if this was a DUI or not. (But it certainly may have been.)

sc53
12-29-2014, 06:06 PM
I don't think her 20 minute escape will allow her to claim she had a drink after the accident to "steady her nerves," since she was followed most of that time by a cyclist who saw the accident and pursued her car. He saw her drive up to her gated condominium, tried to follow her through the gate, got stopped by security, rode back to the scene and saw the car there, with the driver outside talking to police. This cyclist posted his story in the comments section to the local news story.

BumbleBeeDave
12-29-2014, 06:24 PM
The Baltimore Brew story about the Bishop . . .

https://www.baltimorebrew.com/2014/12/28/episcopal-bishop-identified-as-driver-in-fatal-bike-crash/

The Bikemore Baltimore statement. Check out the comments and one of the first ones is from the cyclist who chased her down.

http://www.bikemore.net/blog/bikemore-statement-on-death-of-thomas-palermo

I don't even know where to start about how disgusted I am by this incident, the response from the Bishop--calling it an "accident"--and how little faith I have in our justice system that she will get anywhere near the punishment she deserves.

BBD

ultraman6970
12-29-2014, 06:53 PM
This case will shake personal values, religious values and family values big time... if she gets off the hook (most likely).. well... what do the super church believers will think now?? believe in the religion or stay with what is right??

Knowing how the pope thinks... she will have to face justice, what do the local church will try try to do with this? who knows... way too much dust under the carpet already, probably there's no more room for more dust under the carpet at this point.

I bet we won't hear about this case no more after a week.

Peter P.
12-29-2014, 07:13 PM
WHAT?! How on earth does a police officer not test a driver who does this? When they ran her license plates and driver's license they should have seen the past DUI. That would be reason enough to field sobriety test her and get a blood alcohol reading. If she wasn't tested, she won't ever be held responsible for this. Does anyone know if she was tested?

Officers may NOT necessarily see the prior arrest. If she applied for and was accepted into an "accelerated rehab" program" it would mean if she stays clean legally for a period of time, then her arrest record becomes essentially erased. This can only happen once for a person found guilty of certain misdemeanors.

Ooops; let me correct myself. Since it's already been published regarding her past DUI and drug arrest, it's obvious she didn't get into an accelerated rehab program. I'm not sure whether the prior arrest would have been useful information to the responding officer, however.

Bruce K
12-29-2014, 07:34 PM
UM,

The pope has nothing to do with this. He's Catholic. She is not. It will be up to her archdiocese and the Episcopal Church to decide her professional status.

The key issue here will be the legal process and what comes out of it. Hopefully her position will not interfere with the process but the cynic in me says that may not be the case.

I just wonder how many of these incidents it will take or who the "one victim" will be (read celebrity, politician, sports star, etc.) that will change the perception of the value of a human life when taken by a drunk/negligent/inattentive driver?

If you check VeloNews it turns out there were three fatalities in US cycling over this past holiday weekend. 2 at the hands of hit and run drivers, the third what seems to truly be an unfortunate accident.

BK

velomonkey
12-29-2014, 07:40 PM
The Bikemore Baltimore statement. Check out the comments and one of the first ones is from the cyclist who chased her down.

http://www.bikemore.net/blog/bikemore-statement-on-death-of-thomas-palermo


Wow - I just read that. If that is indeed what happened then she needs to be locked up now with a multi-million dollar bail. Total flight risk. The guards at the gated community need a stern talking to, too.

I would have rung her neck - cop or no cop - she would have gotten it from me.

Edited to add: nothing says you're a shepherd of the lord like living in a gated community.

Peter P.
12-29-2014, 07:45 PM
I was trying to think of a good reason for her to leave the scene, then return.

She could claim she was so distraught over the accident she drove home, drank and/or smoked some weed to "calm" her nerves, then returned.

Even if she returns to the accident and subsequently tests positive for DUI, then the above "excuse" means they can charge her for DUI while returning to the scene of the accident, but police won't be able to tie the DUI to the accident itself.

It's splitting hairs, but similar things have been done before such as getting in an accident, stopping at the scene, the deliberately drinking beer before the police arrive.

Peter P.
12-29-2014, 07:47 PM
i'm gonna say it right now, and i hope i'm wrong, i bet she didn't get any kind of field sobriety or breath test.
that part about the charges for a DUI and drug posession being dropped after she completed probation is definitely not normal around these parts.
so if the charges are dropped does it come up as a prior to a quick check at the scene...
atmo it's looking real bad for any kind of charges at this point...it really sucks.

RIP Tom.

What makes you suspect police didn't administer a sobriety test at the scene?

Tom
12-29-2014, 07:53 PM
... she was followed most of that time by a cyclist who saw the accident and pursued her car. He saw her drive up to her gated condominium, tried to follow her through the gate, got stopped by security, rode back to the scene and saw the car there....

And the cyclist will be asked if she was in his sight the whole time, and if she wasn't there's no proof. Reasonable doubt? For somebody like me that has spent time in the gutter, none. For someone else? A jury's a wild card.

She knew what she was doing. I've been told by a respectable attorney that this is advice often given. Get out of sight and then claim you drank between the incident and being apprehended. Given her history, and that she was anywhere near functional at .27 in the previous case, I believe that this is a hardened repeat offender and I would get tossed from this jury selection in about thirty seconds.

And I am really sorry to go down this path when the thing I should really focus on is Mr. Palermo, his family and friends and how we should respect and honor his memory. I think the best thing is to reflect on that and how to make this kind of thing stop.

mister
12-29-2014, 07:58 PM
What makes you suspect police didn't administer a sobriety test at the scene?

with power comes privilege. she mentions she's 2nd bishop and you never know.
it seemed to work with the DA who dropped charges after she completed probation.

like i said, i hope i'm wrong, but it wouldn't surprise me.

avalonracing
12-29-2014, 08:49 PM
She knew what she was doing. I've been told by a respectable attorney that this is advice often given. Get out of sight and then claim you drank between the incident and being apprehended. Given her history, and that she was anywhere near functional at .27 in the previous case, I believe that this is a hardened repeat offender and I would get tossed from this jury selection in about thirty seconds.



I'm not saying that she is guilty of using a substance (she IS guilty of leaving) but the above statement could be true.

I've had close people in my life who are alcoholics and addicts and I have gone to meetings to support them. If you talk to anyone who is working a program and has spent time in "the rooms" they will tell you that there is a wealth of knowledge in there about what do to game the system and subvert the law.

OtayBW
12-29-2014, 08:54 PM
I think it does not matter so much about whether she can be convicted of DUI. What will hang her is fleeing the scene of a fatal accident. Had there been no flight, she would have been convicted of some cockamamie traffic violation and that would have been that - DUI or no DUI. We see people get off all the time after fatal cycling accidents. That's how the system works in many cases.

The fact that she split will be her undoing.

unterhausen
12-29-2014, 10:44 PM
I hope you're right. This is getting international attention, and it's going to be getting national attention because of the killer's standing. I hope that tilts the cause towards actual justice for once

weisan
12-29-2014, 11:01 PM
...I hope that tilts the cause towards actual justice for once

Again, I want to keep the focus on what is truly important, that's why I kept my silence all afternoon but I will say one more thing and then I will shut up and not speak again.

These people know in their hearts...there is a kind of justice that is FAR MORE fearsome, FAR MORE certain....that is "just what the doctor ordered" and ALWAYS on time!

If they know what's good for them, I pray...and I really really pray with all heart that they will do the right thing....for their sake.

If not, the purging and the cleansing will continue unabated and at a larger scale.

Roger out.

BumbleBeeDave
12-30-2014, 06:09 AM
. . . . if you're talking about God's justice, then that may or may not be true.

But one thing that no longer amazes me in THIS life is the seeming endless and unlimited capacity of human beings to rationalize and justify their actions, no matter how obviously irresponsible, harmful, or just plain evil those actions were.

Yes, I may be a cynic in these situations, but I have no doubt this case in Baltimore will be little different. You will soon hear the spin begin, beyond what Bishop Sutton has sent out in his email referring to this whole thing as an "accident." She will get an attorney, and the diocese will have a spokesperson, and there will be additional players from her side, who will all do their best to paint HER as the victim and add the subtle (or maybe obvious) appeals for forgiveness, tolerance, and talk about how this is a "difficult time" for her, trying to control the message and lessen the outrage at something that SHOULD cause outrage.

BBD

rugbysecondrow
12-30-2014, 06:48 AM
I don't get as wrapped around the axle about the word 'accident' as some of ya'll. Incidents which happen on the roadway are called accidents. Some states even call them "accident reports". Somebody using the word accident to describe this collision is not necessarily be subversive, it is an accepted moniker for a road incident, regardless of whether we like it or not.

The police have purposefully not released any information about this incident, so all we have are eye witness reports. Some vary from 20-45 min before she returns. Some say the cyclists tracked her down and made her return, others said that she returned on her own after leaving her condominium community. Folks here can presume to know what happened, create a scenario in their head, use that scenario to be angry and person X, group Y, system Z...but it is all just manufactured as we only know a few things for sure:

This lady struck Tom while he was cycling. She left the scene. She returned. He died. That is all we know.


I purposefully didn't check this thread last night. I wrestled with my son on the floor, cuddled with my kids and watched My Little Pony, fell asleep feeling blessed that I got to enjoy all of that.

I suspect more of us need to step away, let go of what we don't know, feel blessed in what we do know, and wait for this to develop. There will be a time for purpose and action, that time isn't now though.



. . . . if you're talking about God's justice, then that may or may not be true.

But one thing that no longer amazes me in THIS life is the seeming endless and unlimited capacity of human beings to rationalize and justify their actions, no matter how obviously irresponsible, harmful, or just plain evil those actions were.

Yes, I may be a cynic in these situations, but I have no doubt this case in Baltimore will be little different. You will soon hear the spin begin, beyond what Bishop Sutton has sent out in his email referring to this whole thing as an "accident." She will get an attorney, and the diocese will have a spokesperson, and there will be additional players from her side, who will all do their best to paint HER as the victim and add the subtle (or maybe obvious) appeals for forgiveness, tolerance, and talk about how this is a "difficult time" for her, trying to control the message and lessen the outrage at something that SHOULD cause outrage.

BBD

bwanabaska
12-30-2014, 06:54 AM
My heart goes out to the Palermo family

oldpotatoe
12-30-2014, 07:00 AM
What makes you suspect police didn't administer a sobriety test at the scene?

I wonder if she was one of those that do something like this, leave, then come back and state she got blasted after the accident because she was so shook up(BS, I know)...She is a 'functioning' alcoholic/drug user..she has been here before.

I hope she finds the inside of a jail cell.

tumbler
12-30-2014, 07:27 AM
There was a pretty long segment on one of the large national news shows this morning about this. Hopefully the media will latch on and give this story more attention.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

verticaldoug
12-30-2014, 07:40 AM
She knew what she was doing. I've been told by a respectable attorney that this is advice often given. Get out of sight and then claim you drank between the incident and being apprehended. Given her history, and that she was anywhere near functional at .27 in the previous case, I believe that this is a hardened repeat offender and I would get tossed from this jury selection in about thirty seconds.
.

Like the Goodman case in Wellington Florida.

soulspinner
12-30-2014, 07:50 AM
Again, I want to keep the focus on what is truly important, that's why I kept my silence all afternoon but I will say one more thing and then I will shut up and not speak again.

These people know in their hearts...there is a kind of justice that is FAR MORE fearsome, FAR MORE certain....that is "just what the doctor ordered" and ALWAYS on time!

If they know what's good for them, I pray...and I really really pray with all heart that they will do the right thing....for their sake.

If not, the purging and the cleansing will continue unabated and at a larger scale.

Roger out.

I like your style Weisan pal.........and believe as you do. There will be justice sometime.

soulspinner
12-30-2014, 07:54 AM
I wonder if she was one of those that do something like this, leave, then come back and state she got blasted after the accident because she was so shook up(BS, I know)...She is a 'functioning' alcoholic/drug user..she has been here before.

I hope she finds the inside of a jail cell.

Although (as a Christian) I should feel for her, leaving a man to die because of your actions has me hoping she finds the inside of said jail her living hell.

gone
12-30-2014, 07:57 AM
Someone posted pictures of Mr Palermo and his beautiful family on FB.

At least PART of her sentence should be that she's forced to look at those pictures every single day for the rest of her life.

So sad.

abalone
12-30-2014, 07:58 AM
There was a pretty long segment on one of the large national news shows this morning about this. Hopefully the media will latch on and give this story more attention.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


tumbler is right. I turned on the TV this morning and saw this on Fox News. This is getting national attention now. Friends of Tom Palermo are demanding why charges against this lady have not been filed. They are asking for homicide charges. The lady has an attorney, and the Tom's family are also reportedly securing an attorney. Much information is coming out about the lady's past drunk driving history and marijuana charges, in addition to questions about her suspended probation and dropped charges after her first DUI.

JAllen
12-30-2014, 08:04 AM
Intended and negligent homicide with a vehicle seems to be nonpunishable! How is this status quo?! I swear it feels like we and pedestrians are cannon fodder for cars.

fuzzalow
12-30-2014, 08:36 AM
I believe in the eventuality of God's justice. But in this world, people like Bishop Goodman can and will rationalize anything. Not to absolve or redress repugnant behavior & actions but as a means to escape liability and punishment. Their sorrow & regret is not for who they have maimed, injured or killed but for themselves and the predicament they now find themselves ensnarled. Her conscience encompasses only herself. A disgusting and revolting human being.

There is a common ploy to miscast the word "accident" into this situation as away to minimize the culpability of what was done. As in the true sense of the word "accident" which implies actions that transpired through no fault of their own. A meteor fell and hit Mr. Palermo or that a bolt of lightning struck him down. It casts the common bond to us all in an experience of random chance that has at one point or another, befell us all.

No, this is not what happened here. Mr. Palermo's death was directly attributed to specific and chosen actions taken by Bishop Goodman. The only random chance possible in this situation was with whom or what Bishop Goodman might collide with, of the any persons or things found on a public roadway, while choosing to drive in an allegedly incapacitated condition.

This was no accident. It was the culmination of complete disregard for law and public safety. Lacking any simple human decency towards the aid and assistance to another human life. To call what Bishop Goodman did an accident is a flattery she does not warrant or deserve.

FlashUNC
12-30-2014, 08:45 AM
If she's not at least charged for the felony hit and run...

She left a man to die in a crash of her own making. Only coming back to CYA.

She's despicable.

texbike
12-30-2014, 08:50 AM
This is really sad. I feel the worst for his family. The picture of him with the little girl just about brought tears to my eyes.

When I first read that the driver left the scene and then returned, it made me question what they had in the car that they wanted to get rid of before facing the music. Was it some kind of banned substance? A cell phone that would have shown that they were texting or talking at the time of the accident? Or possibly something else?

Regardless, social media needs to be employed to keep pressure on the law enforcement agency and district attorney's office to be sure that charges are brought against the driver.

Texbike

velomonkey
12-30-2014, 08:59 AM
I don't get as wrapped around the axle about the word 'accident' as some of ya'll. Incidents which happen on the roadway are called accidents. Some states even call them "accident reports". Somebody using the word accident to describe this collision is not necessarily be subversive, it is an accepted moniker for a road incident, regardless of whether we like it or not.

There is a problem in this country. Every year just over 700 bike riders die from the result of a car driver. Have you ever been hit by a car? I have. In most people's mind the issue is the damn bikers - not the people drunk, texting, driving lousy - all while using a 2 ton vehicle. The justice system is rigged - drivers hardly ever get jail time, get their license revoked or even get charges levied against them.

It all starts with calling these incidents "accidents" - accident is defined as an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury.

The guy was in a bike lane - she hit him with her car. It's called negligence - failure to use reasonable care, resulting in damage or injury to another.

Words matter.

Oh, I played with my kids, too. I also followed this thread.

SamIAm
12-30-2014, 09:18 AM
This lady struck Tom while he was cycling. She left the scene. She returned. He died. That is all we know.




This, but we also know that a christian leader, per the bible, is called to greater accountability, specifically that they should be beyond reproach. In my opinion, she did not meet this standard as a result of the previous very, very drunk driving and drug related arrest, but I could be flexible on that point.

Leaving the scene of a fatal accident moves her well underneath this standard and while I would advocate that she get her day in court, the church should immediately release her from her leadership position based on the standard cited above.

This is infuriating. I have posted on the church's Facebook page and would encourage others to do the same.

velomonkey
12-30-2014, 09:26 AM
Leaving the scene of a fatal accident moves her well underneath this standard and while I would advocate that she get her day in court, the church should immediately release her from her leadership position based on the standard cited above.
.

Look, accident or negligent incident - there is a reason no one, ever, says "hit and run accident." EVER. Even if her hitting him was unintentional, her leaving the scene was VERY much intentional. Period. End full stop. Leaving the scene confirms intention.

Her coming back - out of remorse or because she knew she wouldn't get away with it - is only a matter of severity - it does nothing to change the fact that she hit Tom and left.

Hit and Run. FACT. The mere fact that the church is trying to change the narrative is shameful and, if it's your thing, a sin.

steveandbarb1
12-30-2014, 09:34 AM
https://www.facebook.com/JusticeForTomPalermo

Those pictures with his kids are running tears down my face.

saab2000
12-30-2014, 09:36 AM
Do we know the facts of the actual collision? Daylight? Intersection? Stop sign or stop light?

These are not pointed questions and I'm not trying to paint anyone's behavior as good or bad but curious about the actual, known circumstances of the event.

Asking these questions certainly doesn't absolve the driver for having left the scene of the collision, which we all know to be inexcusable.

I hope the police are thorough here and find the facts of a toxicology/sobriety report on the driver and also trace cell phone records, which I'm told are accurate to the second. In other words, if the driver had accessed a cell phone while driving, this will be known.

But mostly the point of my question regards the actual facts of the event like daylight and lanes, etc.

I've read many NTSB reports on aviation accidents and they are generally full of facts and devoid of emotion.

This is a very sad incident.

steveandbarb1
12-30-2014, 09:37 AM
pulled from facebook just posted, listen 6:50 into her sermon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kki7plOUzuw

Joachim
12-30-2014, 09:39 AM
Do we know the facts of the actual collision? Daylight? Intersection? Stop sign or stop light?

These are not pointed questions and I'm not trying to paint anyone's behavior as good or bad but curious about the actual, known circumstances of the event.

Asking these questions certainly doesn't absolve the driver for having left the scene of the collision, which we all know to be inexcusable.

I hope the police are thorough here and find the facts of a toxicology/sobriety report on the driver and also trace cell phone records, which I'm told are accurate to the second. In other words, if the driver had accessed a cell phone while driving, this will be known.

But mostly the point of my question regards the actual facts of the event like daylight and lanes, etc.

I've read many NTSB reports on aviation accidents and they are generally full of facts and devoid of emotion.

This is a very sad incident.

Happened at 2.30pm. Other facts (road, bike lane, car damage etc) can be pulled from the numerous articles.

makoti
12-30-2014, 09:47 AM
I'm hoping that we get to see who she called in those 20 minutes. I don't know that she called anyone, but if she did, I want to know if it was her lawyer.
I truly hate this. We should not have to even talk about this. We should be able to focus on a fellow cyclist & his family, but the actions of this person were so horrid, the visuals of the windshield so disturbing, it is very hard to do.

winmonster
12-30-2014, 09:49 AM
Memorial ride and vigil on Thursday at 3:30. https://www.facebook.com/events/745500648869284/

rwsaunders
12-30-2014, 09:50 AM
Somebody posted this on another site. Blow a 0.27, open containers in the car and a weed pipe, resulting in probation. I want to find the name of her attorney in case this ever happens to me as he/she did a great job. I should add that this was from her incident in 2010.

http://m.myeasternshoremd.com/news/caroline_county/article_87326416-65a5-586e-b9da-99649d25bec6.html?mode=jqm

PQJ
12-30-2014, 10:03 AM
Somebody posted this on another site. Blow a 0.27, open containers in the car and a weed pipe, resulting in probation. I want to find the name of her attorney in case this ever happens to me as he/she did a great job. I should add that this was from her incident in 2010.

http://m.myeasternshoremd.com/news/caroline_county/article_87326416-65a5-586e-b9da-99649d25bec6.html?mode=jqm

She had god on her side. ;)

texbike
12-30-2014, 10:09 AM
Heather Cook. Woman of God. Hypocrite. Killer.

SamIAm
12-30-2014, 10:39 AM
Look, accident or negligent incident - there is a reason no one, ever, says "hit and run accident." EVER. Even if her hitting him was unintentional, her leaving the scene was VERY much intentional. Period. End full stop. Leaving the scene confirms intention.

Her coming back - out of remorse or because she knew she wouldn't get away with it - is only a matter of severity - it does nothing to change the fact that she hit Tom and left.

Hit and Run. FACT. The mere fact that the church is trying to change the narrative is shameful and, if it's your thing, a sin.

Perhaps you should take the time to actually read what I wrote, you may find we don't disagree. Our justice system mandates a day in court regardless of how clearly guilty someone is. My point is that we don't need to wait for that to relieve her immediately of her position in the church. What she did was reprehensible.

MadRocketSci
12-30-2014, 11:05 AM
These people know in their hearts...there is a kind of justice that is FAR MORE fearsome, FAR MORE certain....that is "just what the doctor ordered" and ALWAYS on time!


I wouldn't count on it. Justice must be served in this time and on this planet.

goonster
12-30-2014, 11:21 AM
Blow a 0.27
This by itself suggests long-term abuse or, if you prefer, dependency.

Now, that may just be a single, four year-old data point, but it's a doozy.

jet sanchez
12-30-2014, 12:06 PM
She'll get off with a fine and some counseling, maybe some community service

Here is her car

http://i.imgur.com/yl09EXN.jpg

cookietom
12-30-2014, 12:16 PM
She'll get off with a fine and some counseling, maybe some community service

Here is her car

http://i.imgur.com/yl09EXN.jpg

Oh sh$t,, I think I am going to start riding mountain bike,,,away from the road!!!

Prayed to Tom's family,,,may a better God be with them.

velomonkey
12-30-2014, 12:38 PM
Perhaps you should take the time to actually read what I wrote, you may find we don't disagree. Our justice system mandates a day in court regardless of how clearly guilty someone is. My point is that we don't need to wait for that to relieve her immediately of her position in the church. What she did was reprehensible.

Sorry, Sam I am, I was actually building off of your post - it was the previous post where my comments were directed.

kevinvc
12-30-2014, 02:04 PM
The letter from the Right Reverend Sutton to the Maryland clergy comes across as incredibly tone deaf. Maybe I'm interpreting it in an unfair manner because I'm so angry and saddened by this incident, but I've re-read it several times and still have the same impressions.

In my opinion, the tone of the letter is almost dismissive of Tom. The wording that the accident "resulted in his death" seems like pure deflection of responsibility. Not saying it was intentional, but the fact is that she killed him. Drop the passive voice. Mentioning right away that Bishop Cook was uninjured in the same tone as Tom's death feels insensitive. He asks the clergy to "pray for Mr. Palermo, his family and Bishop Cook during this most difficult time". It feels like he's equating the pain of Tom's family to that of Bishop Cook.

As others have mentioned, saying that it's not a hit and run since she returned to the scene is incorrect both legally and morally. And then he finishes the letter saying he's going to postpone his sabbatical by a couple of weeks so he can be "pastorally present". I assume this is intended to convey how seriously he takes the incident since he's pushing back his vacation.

I understand that the letter was addressed to Bishop Cook's colleagues, which is why she's the focus of it. I know that he doesn't have all of the facts. But it is undisputed that she knowingly struck and killed a man then fled the scene. It's one thing to be supportive of his colleague, but I'm seeing a dismal lack of respect and concern for Tom and his family.

steveandbarb1
12-30-2014, 02:15 PM
I recently had my car inspected, the shop I go to has a new business, installing and monthly adjusting of breathalizers. It seems to me, anyone blowing over .1x should have mandated by any court, whether or not someone is convicted beyond that.

rugbysecondrow
12-30-2014, 02:26 PM
Do we know the facts of the actual collision? Daylight? Intersection? Stop sign or stop light?

These are not pointed questions and I'm not trying to paint anyone's behavior as good or bad but curious about the actual, known circumstances of the event.

Asking these questions certainly doesn't absolve the driver for having left the scene of the collision, which we all know to be inexcusable.

I hope the police are thorough here and find the facts of a toxicology/sobriety report on the driver and also trace cell phone records, which I'm told are accurate to the second. In other words, if the driver had accessed a cell phone while driving, this will be known.

But mostly the point of my question regards the actual facts of the event like daylight and lanes, etc.

I've read many NTSB reports on aviation accidents and they are generally full of facts and devoid of emotion.

This is a very sad incident.

The answer to your question is no, there are very few facts available right now.

rugbysecondrow
12-30-2014, 02:34 PM
This, but we also know that a christian leader, per the bible, is called to greater accountability, specifically that they should be beyond reproach. In my opinion, she did not meet this standard as a result of the previous very, very drunk driving and drug related arrest, but I could be flexible on that point.

Leaving the scene of a fatal accident moves her well underneath this standard and while I would advocate that she get her day in court, the church should immediately release her from her leadership position based on the standard cited above.

This is infuriating. I have posted on the church's Facebook page and would encourage others to do the same.

Agree with you on all your points.

To Velo and others...

I just think it makes little sense for folks to be half cocked with inaccurate or partial information. Do not mistake my tempered reaction as me not caring, but understand that it does little good to argue against ghosts. Anger for the sake of anger is not productive, which is what is occurring in much of this thread. I believe we need to see the facts, see the report, then direct our anger and frustration appropriately.

rePhil
12-30-2014, 02:35 PM
The Police Report will be public record after the investigation is complete. With all the attention this case is getting they will be certain to make it thorough.
I hope someone will procure and post a copy.

kevinvc
12-30-2014, 02:49 PM
I just think it makes little sense for folks to be half cocked with inaccurate or partial information. Do not mistake my tempered reaction as me not caring, but understand that it does little good to argue against ghosts. Anger for the sake of anger is not productive, which is what is occurring in much of this thread. I believe we need to see the facts, see the report, then direct our anger and frustration appropriately.

I understand what you're saying and largely agree. However, there are a few undisputed points that are, in my opinion, worthy of being angry at Bishop Cook. Whether she was under the influence of some substance, speeding, texting or in the bike lane is unknown. We also don't know if she fled to dispose of evidence, because she panicked or because she thought she could avoid being caught.

However, it is indisputable that Bishop Cook struck and killed Tom with her car, then fled the scene. Regardless of why she hit him, and I suppose there are some hypothetical scenarios where it wasn't her fault, she had to have known she did it. The damage to her car was such that there is no way she could have been unaware. She left the scene. This is a gross failing of her legal duties as a driver and as a human being. I am furious at her for these facts alone. No, these feelings aren't productive or helpful, but I firmly believe they are justified.

makoti
12-30-2014, 02:51 PM
As others have mentioned, saying that it's not a hit and run since she returned to the scene is incorrect both legally and morally.

I agree with everything you've said. However, it was pointed out to me that, in Va at least, if a driver leaves the scene & turns themselves in within 24 hours, even if they never return to the scene, it is not considered "hit & run". Comes from a friend hit on his motorcycle where the person left but contacted the police later. I don't know if it's still true or the same in Md, but if so then sadly, he's right. Legally. But in no way morally.

tuxbailey
12-30-2014, 03:04 PM
Terrible and tragic news. I feel for the family and I really hope that woman get her punishment.

ORMojo
12-30-2014, 04:32 PM
Given that I owned a Palermo - a fantastic bike - and had communicated with Thomas (although never met him in person), and that this nearly-ended year has included the death of my daughter in a senseless and careless automobile crash and my 96-year-old dad entering end-of-life hospice care just a few days ago . . . all leaving me very sensitive to these losses . . . this tragic incident hits hard.

Most of all, I wish the best possible for Thomas' children.

Memorial contributions may be made to the Palermo Children's Educational Trust, c/o Michael Molloy at Stifel Nicholas, 1 South St., 30th Floor, Baltimore, MD 21202

Also, according to one media report: "A family member says traffic investigators believe the bishop may have been texting at the time of the incident."

Rueda Tropical
12-30-2014, 04:47 PM
Looking at the condition of the windshield - how could you leave the person who took that kind of hit mangled on the road without offering aid and calling 911 immediately? Whatever else happened or didn't happen, she deserves jail time for that negligent callous act alone.

avalonracing
12-30-2014, 04:50 PM
Memorial ride and vigil on Thursday at 3:30. https://www.facebook.com/events/745500648869284/

There are already more than 500 people planning to attend. If you are near the area please considering attending the event. Not just to pay your respects but also to help make a large showing for the rights and safety of cyclists.

Tom's tragic fate could have happened to ANY one of us and hopefully some good can come of this sad situation.

Kevan
12-30-2014, 04:55 PM
RIP, Tom.

I've been following this tragic story and can only suggest that every rider should pick their roads they ride wisely. There are fools out there behind the wheels that are more concerned about, "What's for dinner?", than you…the cyclist, pressed to the shoulder, dodging and weaving curb obstacles ahead, all the time keeping an ear peeled for the traffic coming up from behind. They care 'Jack' about us.

Say what you want about our equal rights to the use of a road, just know we're on the losing end.

Think about your routes; there's more safety in numbers (group rides); and, seek out the quiet roads.

His poor…poor family….

steveandbarb1
12-30-2014, 05:02 PM
RE: safety in numbers (group rides) - not trying to start a debate but large race type training rides in open roads can be more dangerous.


http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/12/news/u-s-cycling-community-stricken-multiple-tragedies-christmas-weekend_356917


On Saturday, two cyclists were killed while riding.

The first, Herman Shum, was struck by a truck when he swerved to avoid a crash that occurred after two riders collided at the front of a group of about 50 riders, near Livermore, California. Local media reports that the truck in the oncoming lane tried to dodge the crash by veering away from the cyclists, but could not stop in time to avoid Shum. The driver of that vehicle stopped, and cooperated with police.

“[The driver] saw a lot of bicyclists scrambling to avoid the first collision and, at that point, he did see somebody come into the lane in front of him and he tried to stop as best he could and was unable to avoid him,” a California Highway Patrol officer told ABC7 News.


Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/12/news/u-s-cycling-community-stricken-multiple-tragedies-christmas-weekend_356917#bxMcFes6vbA4Pf5d.99

thwart
12-30-2014, 05:13 PM
Given that I owned a Palermo - a fantastic bike - and had communicated with Thomas (although never met him in person), and that this nearly-ended year has included the death of my daughter in a senseless and careless automobile crash and my 96-year-old dad entering end-of-life hospice care just a few days ago . . . all leaving me very sensitive to these losses . . . this tragic incident hits hard.

Most of all, I wish the best possible for Thomas' children.

Memorial contributions may be made to the Palermo Children's Educational Trust, c/o Michael Molloy at Stifel Nicholas, 1 South St., 30th Floor, Baltimore, MD 21202

Also, according to one media report: "A family member says traffic investigators believe the bishop may have been texting at the time of the incident."
My heartfelt condolences for your loss.

Perhaps this memorial contribution information should be sticky-ed, given the activity of this thread… it may be two pages deep by the end of the day.

pbarry
12-30-2014, 05:33 PM
My heartfelt condolences for your loss.

Perhaps this memorial contribution information should be sticky-ed, given the activity of this thread… it may be two pages deep by the end of the day.

Yes, this hit at home, here. The decorum ORMojo has shown since his tragedy is most commendable. In a similar situation, I would have lashed out at the whole world.

Good people here, and we only know a smidgen of what they are and have been going through day-to-day. Be kind to those around you.

OtayBW
12-30-2014, 06:22 PM
Looking at the condition of the windshield - how could you leave the person who took that kind of hit mangled on the road without offering aid and calling 911 immediately? Whatever else happened or didn't happen, she deserves jail time for that negligent callous act alone.Look at the bike as well. Both of his seat stays were buckled/collapsed almost ~bilaterally. He was also thrown almost backward into the car that hit him. Looks like he got run over plain and simple directly from the rear, and not merely side-swiped or brushed aside. But that's just my speculation....

But yeah, and then to walk away and not call 911 immediately....good grief.

ORMojo
12-30-2014, 06:34 PM
Perhaps this memorial contribution information should be sticky-ed, given the activity of this thread… it may be two pages deep by the end of the day.

A great suggestion that I forwarded to the mods, and it is done. Thanks.

BumbleBeeDave
12-30-2014, 09:11 PM
Looking at the condition of the windshield - how could you leave the person who took that kind of hit mangled on the road without offering aid and calling 911 immediately? Whatever else happened or didn't happen, she deserves jail time for that negligent callous act alone.

Take away all the other possible aspects. She had to know what she had done. Yet she drove off and left him to die.

Unconscionable and unforgivable.

BBD

christian
12-30-2014, 09:17 PM
I think about his two kids and I get so sad and so angry. The unfairness and inhumanity of it all is overwhelming. My thoughts are with his family.

PaMtbRider
12-30-2014, 09:22 PM
Chris Bishop, another Baltimore frame builder, is organizing a book of Tom's work to give to his wife and children. Details can be found here.
http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2/project-tom-palermo-39493.html#post656789

AngryScientist
12-30-2014, 09:41 PM
i've been trying to think through a response for this thread, and have so many thoughts running through my head, but the bottom line is this is a senseless and tragic situation. i am truly saddened by this.

BumbleBeeDave
12-30-2014, 09:42 PM
. . . at a large enough size to be able to see details. Look at the back wheel. totally caved in but doesn't look like it was knocked to either side. I also assume those seatstays were originally straight?

Looks to me like he got hit straight on from behind or else the wheel and frame would have been bent to one side or the other. Makes me sick to think about.

BBD

SamIAm
12-30-2014, 09:45 PM
Take away all the other possible aspects. She had to know what she had done. Yet she drove off and left him to die.

Unconscionable and unforgivable.

BBD

Have to disagree on the unforgivable part, but I get where you are coming from. Ultimately forgiveness isn't your call or mine, it doesn't belong to any of us here. It belongs to Tom's family and depending on your faith, God. Go watch some of those cell provider videos about texting. There are some "unforgivable" situations where the victim and/or family actually do forgive. The one about the guy who killed the amish family is particularly poignant.

I'm not sure I would be capable of it, but my faith requires it. I know I would struggle mightily.

On another topic, again faith based and something that just occurred to me is that this "bishop" failed to stop and pray for her victim. I'm not going to get into a dialog about the effectiveness of prayer. I get that many here may not believe, but that is not my point. The point is she is a so called believer and did not pray for this man. That is very telling.

abalone
12-31-2014, 12:20 AM
Have to disagree on the unforgivable part, but I get where you are coming from. Ultimately forgiveness isn't your call or mine, it doesn't belong to any of us here. It belongs to Tom's family and depending on your faith, God. Go watch some of those cell provider videos about texting. There are some "unforgivable" situations where the victim and/or family actually do forgive. The one about the guy who killed the amish family is particularly poignant.

I'm not sure I would be capable of it, but my faith requires it. I know I would struggle mightily.

On another topic, again faith based and something that just occurred to me is that this "bishop" failed to stop and pray for her victim. I'm not going to get into a dialog about the effectiveness of prayer. I get that many here may not believe, but that is not my point. The point is she is a so called believer and did not pray for this man. That is very telling.



The past drunk driving incident, marijuana and drug paraphernalia possession, and now hit-and-run action that killed Tom Palermo, suggest that the only person that she may have prayed for is herself. Let's face it. She ran away from a dieing man. God's saint or a fraud?

abalone
12-31-2014, 12:24 AM
http://i.imgur.com/yl09EXN.jpg

Look at the windshield. Now, look at his bike. There's just no way at all that his bike caused all that damage to the windshield. It was Tom's body. And it makes me sick just to think about the suffering he endured and how callous someone could be to just drive away from a person they injured so badly.

marciero
12-31-2014, 06:27 AM
Nothing to say that hasn't been said. Sadness, anger, outrage. The picture of Tom with his daughter brought me to tears.

soulspinner
12-31-2014, 07:04 AM
I wouldn't count on it. Justice must be served in this time and on this planet.

This world does not function this way, unfortunately....

soulspinner
12-31-2014, 07:08 AM
Have to disagree on the unforgivable part, but I get where you are coming from. Ultimately forgiveness isn't your call or mine, it doesn't belong to any of us here. It belongs to Tom's family and depending on your faith, God. Go watch some of those cell provider videos about texting. There are some "unforgivable" situations where the victim and/or family actually do forgive. The one about the guy who killed the amish family is particularly poignant.

I'm not sure I would be capable of it, but my faith requires it. I know I would struggle mightily.

On another topic, again faith based and something that just occurred to me is that this "bishop" failed to stop and pray for her victim. I'm not going to get into a dialog about the effectiveness of prayer. I get that many here may not believe, but that is not my point. The point is she is a so called believer and did not pray for this man. That is very telling.

The last part of your statement makes me think, she didn't even stop to help, forget prayer, she was wrapped up in HER culpability or she would never have left.

avalonracing
12-31-2014, 08:27 AM
I recently had my car inspected, the shop I go to has a new business, installing and monthly adjusting of breathalizers. It seems to me, anyone blowing over .1x should have mandated by any court, whether or not someone is convicted beyond that.

I'm all about the "ignition interlock" but I also know of people who have had these getting their, passengers, friends, boyfriends, girlfriends, pick-ups, etc. to blow in them for the owner. It is amazing what people will do to enable one another.

SamIAm
12-31-2014, 08:29 AM
The last part of your statement makes me think, she didn't even stop to help, forget prayer, she was wrapped up in HER culpability or she would never have left.

Have to agree, this was all about her. My point is more around nagging doubts about her true faith. Three passages from scripture keep coming to me this morning, paraphrased below:

You will know them by their fruit, a good tree produces good fruit and a bad tree produces bad fruit. Fail.

If we live by faith, let us also walk by faith. Fail.

Scariest passage for those who wrongly profess to be Christians.

Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord did we not ...... and I will say I never knew you.

Where is the repentance!?

fiamme red
12-31-2014, 08:41 AM
Statement by the diocese (http://episcopalmaryland.org/the-episcopal-diocese-of-maryland-statement-on-the-search-process-of-an-elected-bishop/):

One of the core values of the Christian faith is forgiveness. We cannot preach forgiveness without practicing forgiveness and offering people opportunity for redemption.

As part of the search process, Bishop Cook fully disclosed the 2010 DUI for which charges were filed resulting in a ‘probation before judgment.’ After extensive discussion and discernment about the incident, and after further investigation, including extensive background check and psychological investigation, it was determined that this one mistake should not bar her for consideration as a leader.

We, too are all filled with questions for which there are still no answers, and we are all filled with anger, bitterness, pain and tears. Our thoughts and prayers right now are with Mr. Palermo, his family and friends, and the bicycling community. And, we continue to pray for Bishop Cook in this time of her tremendous grief and sorrow.

velomonkey
12-31-2014, 08:54 AM
Statement by the diocese (http://episcopalmaryland.org/the-episcopal-diocese-of-maryland-statement-on-the-search-process-of-an-elected-bishop/):

Her "grief" - her "sorrow!!!!" And that call about her prior DUI - I'd say you got that one wrong, boys.

fiamme red
12-31-2014, 09:09 AM
http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2014/12/30/investigation-continues-for-fatal-baltimore-bike-accident/

The bishop herself talked about responsibility during a recent sermon, one month ago.

“If we routinely drive 55 in a 30 mile an hour zone, we won’t be able to stop on a dime if driving conditions get dangerous or if an animal, or God forbid, a human being should step out in front of us,” Bishop Cook said in the sermon.

rwsaunders
12-31-2014, 09:17 AM
More details as can be expected, as more information trickles in.

https://www.baltimorebrew.com/2014/12/29/witness-says-car-left-scene-of-bike-crash-for-45-not-20-minutes/

makoti
12-31-2014, 09:45 AM
More details as can be expected, as more information trickles in.

https://www.baltimorebrew.com/2014/12/29/witness-says-car-left-scene-of-bike-crash-for-45-not-20-minutes/

45 minutes. That's incredible. You've gone from getting over the shock of what happened & realizing you have to go back (the only defense I can give her & I don't buy it) to coldly calculating your options. That's a LONG time.

velomonkey
12-31-2014, 09:48 AM
The Baltimore Sun Obituary on Tom (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/obituaries/bs-md-ob-thomas-palermo-20141230-story.html) - well written

Jeez, he worked at proteus in college park. That was my first sponsor way back and the owner was such a nice man who himself came down with MS after sponsoring the MS ride for years. I named my first company proteus.

This just continues to sting - and it's confirmed now, that rider did follow her and it wasn't no 20 minutes.

texbike
12-31-2014, 10:09 AM
45 minutes. That's incredible. You've gone from getting over the shock of what happened & realizing you have to go back (the only defense I can give her & I don't buy it) to coldly calculating your options. That's a LONG time.

I hope that the investigators are looking at her phone records. It would be interesting to see who she called immediately after hitting Tom. My guess is that she probably had a discussion with her higher-ups at the Diocese and possibly even an attorney that counseled her to return to the accident scene.

Texbike

PQJ
12-31-2014, 10:45 AM
She doesn't deserve forgiveness. She deserves a jail cell. And a couple of hard pipe hittin' b@^#hes to get to work on her with a pair of pliers and a blowtorch.

MadRocketSci
12-31-2014, 11:00 AM
Have to agree, this was all about her. My point is more around nagging doubts about her true faith. Three passages from scripture keep coming to me this morning, paraphrased below:

You will know them by their fruit, a good tree produces good fruit and a bad tree produces bad fruit. Fail.

If we live by faith, let us also walk by faith. Fail.

Scariest passage for those who wrongly profess to be Christians.

Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord did we not ...... and I will say I never knew you.

Where is the repentance!?

I haven't noticed a correlation between good behavior and religiousity, just sayin. In fact those who profess that without religion human behavior would generally be out of control scare me.

This particular organization is doing what big organizations do, a$$ covering, regardless of their mission and intent - that sh*t goes out the window.

makoti
12-31-2014, 11:16 AM
I hope that the investigators are looking at her phone records. It would be interesting to see who she called immediately after hitting Tom. My guess is that she probably had a discussion with her higher-ups at the Diocese and possibly even an attorney that counseled her to return to the accident scene.

Texbike

I wondered this earlier. Lawyer? Friend? Did she call someone? Who?

SpokeValley
12-31-2014, 11:36 AM
Her "grief" - her "sorrow!!!!" And that call about her prior DUI - I'd say you got that one wrong, boys.

Right on.

Trying to be calm here, but if it looks like a duck...

I'm just so pi$$ed at the Diocese.

This is blatant a$$ covering. Did you see the title of the statement referencing "search process for an elected Bishop"? Huh? Looks to me like they're distancing themselves from her. You talk about being left in the wilderness...

Her "grief and sorrow" might be the result of realizing that she killed an innocent man, acted like it didn't happen, and is in one big bunch of trouble.

And as someone mentioned earlier, this Bishop didn't even stop to pray (or as clergy would say, "she didn't feel called to pray") for a person she injured, and now her church is backing away from her. Unbelievable.

God will sort this out.

But I'm awaiting some human developments in this sad case.

MadRocketSci
12-31-2014, 11:36 AM
I don't know if this was caught yet:

“He was in a conversation with another biker and they immediately indicated that they believe the car that hit Mr. Palermo had just driven past. They had the make and model, but not the license."

This says to me she made another pass to check out the damage after leaving the scene the first time.

slidey
12-31-2014, 11:41 AM
After extensive discussion and discernment about the incident, and after further investigation, including extensive background check and psychological investigation, it was determined that this one mistake should not bar her for consideration as a leader. (from Statement of the Disease (http://episcopalmaryland.org/the-episcopal-diocese-of-maryland-statement-on-the-search-process-of-an-elected-bishop/))

What bugs me about this is the religious shroud placed upon this common-place, substance abuser who has now taken a person's life as a direct result of her actions (unless, God was driving her chariot and all other such nonsense is taken into account). She does not deserve any consideration (from the systems - Church/Law), and never did - but she just kept on getting clean sheets one after another when on the other hand thousands of minority young males are being incarcerated for multiple years for just one of the crimes in her repertoire (possession of marijuana)! Where is the equality; is it just one's appearance that counts? Should there be a sliding scale depending on your beliefs, and not on your actions? Where the heck is the consideration for the family of the one she killed? Why isn't there a bloody apology from the morons (officials) at this Church for their pretty comprehensive process that was so utterly inadequate in evaluating this addict's true extent of addiction/deception/both?

"...should not bar her consideration as a leader." my a$$ - this thug in a robe was incapable of leading her own life in a sensible manner. Idiots, hypocrites!

MadRocketSci
12-31-2014, 11:43 AM
God will sort this out.


Oh my big bang theory can I request that people just stop saying stuff like this and keep the discussion to how the law will sort this out, and if it doesn't, what needs to be changed to sort this out?

makoti
12-31-2014, 11:49 AM
I don't know if this was caught yet:

“He was in a conversation with another biker and they immediately indicated that they believe the car that hit Mr. Palermo had just driven past. They had the make and model, but not the license."

This says to me she made another pass to check out the damage after leaving the scene the first time.

I saw that, too. Unreal. It gets more & more calculated.

avalonracing
12-31-2014, 12:05 PM
I'm curious as to whether now that the initial shock has worn off if she will be completely honest, fess up to everything, and rely on her faith to carry her through the repercussions OR whether she will hide behind a lawyer to find and use every legal precedent and loophole to get her off the hook and/or lessen the punishment.

steveandbarb1
12-31-2014, 12:06 PM
The diocese has listed the memorial ride. Next up would be for them to publish the donation.


http://episcopalmaryland.org/join-the-cycling-community-on-the-tom-palermo-memorial-ride-and-vigil/

texbike
12-31-2014, 12:13 PM
I don't know if this was caught yet:

“He was in a conversation with another biker and they immediately indicated that they believe the car that hit Mr. Palermo had just driven past. They had the make and model, but not the license."

This says to me she made another pass to check out the damage after leaving the scene the first time.

I saw that, too. Unreal. It gets more & more calculated.

I saw that as well. It sounds like she may live in the gated community and had to pass back by the accident scene to return home. If so, why did she have to go home before returning to the scene? So many questions...

Texbike

happycampyer
12-31-2014, 12:14 PM
"A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’"

To apply this parable to Tom Palermo's hit-and-run, the priest didn't just pass on the other side, the priest was the attacker (and if the account is accurate, took a second pass). I wonder how many times the Bishop has given sermons on the lesson of the Good Samaritan? Shocking.

As others have said, the feelings of sadness and anger are overwhelming. My thoughts and prayers are with the Tom's family, especially his two small children.

texbike
12-31-2014, 12:14 PM
I'm curious as to whether now that the initial shock has worn off if she will be completely honest, fess up to everything, and rely on her faith to carry her through the repercussions OR whether she will hide behind a lawyer to find and use every legal precedent and loophole to get her off the hook and/or lessen the punishment.

Call me a pessimist, but my bet would be on the latter.

Texbike

echelon_john
12-31-2014, 12:20 PM
I went back through the thread and didn't see this posted yet, but forgive me if it was, and it bears repeating anyway:

A fund has been set up for the education of Tom's children. If you're looking to end the year on a high note, karmically, you could do a lot worse than making a donation of whatever size is right for you. The fund started with a modest goal of $10,000, but as we all know, that doesn't go very far.

Link is here; just takes a minute:
http://www.youcaring.com/tuition-fundraiser/children-of-tom-palermo/283939

sc53
12-31-2014, 12:30 PM
I don't know if this was caught yet:

“He was in a conversation with another biker and they immediately indicated that they believe the car that hit Mr. Palermo had just driven past. They had the make and model, but not the license."

This says to me she made another pass to check out the damage after leaving the scene the first time.

I know! I saw that detail in the report by the cyclist who followed her, that she had already left the scene once before and was now returning and leaving again a second time. WTH? Leaving the scene TWICE is not just nerves, shock, confusion; it's cold premeditated checking out one's options.

soulspinner
12-31-2014, 12:34 PM
I'm curious as to whether now that the initial shock has worn off if she will be completely honest, fess up to everything, and rely on her faith to carry her through the repercussions OR whether she will hide behind a lawyer to find and use every legal precedent and loophole to get her off the hook and/or lessen the punishment.

good question.

Bruce K
12-31-2014, 12:34 PM
Fund Information is also a "Sticky" at the top of the General Discussion section.

BK

echelon_john
12-31-2014, 12:38 PM
Thanks Bruce. Sorry, I missed that.
Cheers, JC

Fund Information is also a "Sticky" at the top of the General Discussion section.

BK

gasman
12-31-2014, 02:37 PM
I'm pessimistic anything serious will happen. We just had a woman in our town, probably under the influence, hit a man as he was crossing the street with his adult son-glancing blow to the son.
She drove 11 blocks with the guy stuck on the roof of her car. She finally stopped, pulled him off the car and then drove home. Her husband was cleaning up the blood on the car when the police arrived. She's only being charged with manslaughter and he with obstructing justice.
Sickening

abalone
12-31-2014, 02:56 PM
I went back through the thread and didn't see this posted yet, but forgive me if it was, and it bears repeating anyway:

A fund has been set up for the education of Tom's children. If you're looking to end the year on a high note, karmically, you could do a lot worse than making a donation of whatever size is right for you. The fund started with a modest goal of $10,000, but as we all know, that doesn't go very far.

Link is here; just takes a minute:
http://www.youcaring.com/tuition-fundraiser/children-of-tom-palermo/283939



Great link. Please everyone, just take a minute to donate anything, even a couple bucks, $5, $10, $20, doesn't matter. Funeral costs alone are thousands of dollars. This link is way easier to donate than mailing a check. It even accepts credit card and Paypal if I am not mistaken.

It is also so very sad to see the gallery of pics on that link his family has posted. Many with his wife and kids, and a youthful Tom and his wife Rachel. I cannot imagine the heartache to lose a father and husband 2 days after Christmas. When you see those kids with their Dad, I imagine they probably had a super Xmas filled with love and joy. And then 2 days later, the worst thing happens. Surely, the kids were home for school holidays after Xmas and they must have known he was going out for a simple bike ride. And then, to find out about their daddy?

BumbleBeeDave
12-31-2014, 03:14 PM
. . . as it is, to me, a compounding factor.

You still have the core issue. She was driving, hit a cyclist, must have known what she had done, then left the scene with him bleeding and dying.

Then she came BACK by the scene again and left again. Then came back again later--up to 45 minutes--after it must have become clear to her that she had been witnessed and could not get away.

Those facts alone qualify her to get the book thrown at her.

BBD

OtayBW
12-31-2014, 03:33 PM
. . . as it is, to me, a compounding factor.

You still have the core issue. She was driving, hit a cyclist, must have known what she had done, then left the scene with him bleeding and dying.

Then she came BACK by the scene again and left again. Then came back again later--up to 45 minutes--after it must have become clear to her that she had been witnessed and could not get away.

Those facts alone qualify her to get the book thrown at her.

BBD
.

noonan1970
12-31-2014, 08:43 PM
45 minutes. That's incredible. You've gone from getting over the shock of what happened & realizing you have to go back (the only defense I can give her & I don't buy it) to coldly calculating your options. That's a LONG time.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2891576/Woman-bishop-exposed-hit-run-driver-fatal-crash-chased-confronted-65-year-old-bicyclist-came-forward-police.html

rugbysecondrow
01-01-2015, 07:27 AM
. . . as it is, to me, a compounding factor.

You still have the core issue. She was driving, hit a cyclist, must have known what she had done, then left the scene with him bleeding and dying.

Then she came BACK by the scene again and left again. Then came back again later--up to 45 minutes--after it must have become clear to her that she had been witnessed and could not get away.

Those facts alone qualify her to get the book thrown at her.

BBD

100% agree.

BumbleBeeDave
01-01-2015, 12:54 PM
. . . is going to the memorial ride today, it sure would be nice to get a few photos to show what kind of turnout they had.

BBD

BumbleBeeDave
01-01-2015, 12:58 PM
. . . from the Baltimore Brew.

Citing “forgiveness,” diocese elected Cook despite 2010 drunk driving infraction

https://www.baltimorebrew.com/2014/12/30/citing-forgiveness-diocese-elected-cook-despite-2010-drunk-driving-infraction/

And . . .

Online clamor over fatal bike crash includes calls for Cook to resign

https://www.baltimorebrew.com/2014/12/31/online-clamor-over-fatal-bike-crash-includes-calls-for-cook-to-resign/

If you read the "forgiveness" story, I think it's very telling that when she was elected bishop in 2010, the nominating committee who put her into the vote knew of the DUI incident she had just gone through, but the clergy who actually voted and selected here did not know about it. Pretty convenient for her, eh?. . .

BBD

BumbleBeeDave
01-01-2015, 05:29 PM
. . . from the memorial ride.

BBD

avalonracing
01-01-2015, 05:34 PM
I was at the ride. There was a huge turnout and if it wasn't a thousand it was only a few hundred shy. The group was peaceful and respectful and makes me proud of my cycling community.

sc53
01-01-2015, 05:44 PM
Thanks for being there Avalon. Too cold for me today but I thought of Tom and his family and friends today.

nighthawk
01-01-2015, 05:48 PM
That is so awesome to see such a great turnout for the memorial ride. What a terrible tragedy. Wishing peace and strength for his family and friends.

steveandbarb1
01-01-2015, 06:16 PM
Reading the Baltimore news blogs, someone mentioned "wait till it is seen if he was out of the bike lane"... I don't think there is another healthy activity that is as vilified as cycling.

David Kirk
01-01-2015, 06:27 PM
I was at the ride. There was a huge turnout and if it wasn't a thousand it was only a few hundred shy. The group was peaceful and respectful and makes me proud of my cycling community.

That is so very cool.

dave

velomonkey
01-01-2015, 06:30 PM
. . . from the memorial ride.

BBD


Between reading the account of the 65 year old guy following her car and these pictures I have just chopped a bunch of onions. I am also proud that bikers, as vilified as we may be, take care of our own.

avalonracing
01-01-2015, 06:57 PM
I just saw one of the news reports from a local channel. I was a bit disappointed by the coverage. They mentioned "hundreds of cyclists" and showed shots of a small fraction of a procession. I rode in with a group from the suburbs and there were over 50 of us riding from one single bike shop and we were small part of the total.

Also in the coverage they mentioned that the Bishop hit Thomas and returned a short time later. That sounds a lot better than fatal hit and run doesn't it?

Climb01742
01-01-2015, 07:31 PM
She doesn't deserve forgiveness. She deserves a jail cell. And a couple of hard pipe hittin' b@^#hes to get to work on her with a pair of pliers and a blowtorch.

You made me smile. Thanks, amid so much sadness and anger. To quote marsellus wallace further, we're all pretty f-ing far from ok.

OtayBW
01-01-2015, 08:36 PM
I came in for the ride. This is at the end:
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j42/zelmo_2006/PalermoRide2.jpg (http://s77.photobucket.com/user/zelmo_2006/media/PalermoRide2.jpg.html)

Interesting short ride with 700+ people. On one hand, it felt very motivating; very much of a cohesive, group sense of both sadness and outrage which actually had a positive vibe, it seemed. Relatively limited coverage by the local media (surprising) and essentially zero police presence at the start and throughout the entire ride. I thought that was surprising given the number of people effectively acting as a rolling critical mass through an urban/suburban throughway for ~3 miles. Once we got to the accident site, police did show up and roped off the road which was already entirely blocked by us in both directions. I was actually expecting some kind of police traffic control along the route, but I didn't see it.

I was also frankly a little surprised that the 2 people who spoke briefly (a spokesman for the Bikemor advocacy group, and Tom Palermo's brother-in-law) spoke at what seemed like a low level conversational volume. I do understand the gravity of this occasion, but my sense was that people would have liked to have heard some small message of inspiration or encouragement, especially with nearly a week gone by now with no resolution to this horrific accident that shocked a lot of people around here (and obviously, beyond).

I'm hoping that we will have some idea of what will become of the Right Rev. Cook in the next week. I suspect part of the hold up has to do with the fact that the existing Baltimore City State's Attorney is leaving office (voted out) and the new one is slated to start sometime soon (?). I'd like to see something happen before the interest wanes further and the existing information gets spun and diluted. We'll see.

Jack Brunk
01-01-2015, 08:48 PM
Maybe a memorial visit to her church and asking questions there would be a big help in getting answers from the church. It's a great support on the road, but at her work place followed by repeated visits from the cycling community may hit hard from a different angle. On my ride today on pavement I couldn't get Tom out of my head. Go straight to her people. I bet things will come to head a lot quicker.

laupsi
01-01-2015, 08:52 PM
I too participated in the memorial ride this afternoon. we did for Thomas, his family, we did it in his memory. We also did it for awareness. It was a very sobering experience for me personally.

texbike
01-01-2015, 09:31 PM
Maybe a memorial visit to her church and asking questions there would be a big help in getting answers from the church. It's a great support on the road, but at her work place followed by repeated visits from the cycling community may hit hard from a different angle. On my ride today on pavement I couldn't get Tom out of my head. Go straight to her people. I bet things will come to head a lot quicker.

Agreed. It would be great to have this level of turnout at both the DA's office and the offices of the Diocese pushing for action. I would imagine it would be a level of pressure that the Diocese isn't accustomed to. This woman should permanently lose her position as she didn't display the qualities that one would expect from a leader of the church.

Texbike