OT holiday consumption news -- kicking it old school with LPs

[akelman]

I'm getting a turntable. Yes, there's nobody more twee than me. Regardless, I have a question: are there albums* that are especially worth buying on vinyl?

* Or whatever the kids call them these days.

[Cicli]

* Or whatever the kids call them these days.

The kids call them files.

Seriously, nothing sounds as good as vinyl. I am too lazy to deal with the effort but, it still sounds good.

[thirdgenbird]

My sister in law got me jack white's Lazaretto for Christmas! So great. Lots of unique features. YouTube it.

[mister]

yeah there is plenty of stuff to get on vinyl. can't really recommend though coz i don't know yr tastes.
pretty much any new music i buy is available on vinyl...and that's the way i buy it.

[akelman]

The key thing, for me, is that I'd like to know about recordings that are *especially* worth owning on vinyl. I ask because I'm not going to replicate my entire music collection. But I will buy particular things, either new to me or not, if they sound especially good on vinyl.

[parallelfish]

Check out the Reference Recordings and Sheffield Labs catalogs.

[rustychisel]

The key thing, for me, is that I'd like to know about recordings that are *especially* worth owning on vinyl. I ask because I'm not going to replicate my entire music collection. But I will buy particular things, either new to me or not, if they sound especially good on vinyl.

Funnily enough, it really isn't about the delivery device. It never was; Phil Spector was right all along.

A well produced record still sounds like a well produced record, which is why Pink Floyd's 'Dark Side Of The Moon' may well be one of the gold standards (among hundreds, I hasten to add). Then contrast Sex Pistols 'NMTBHTSP' with The Clash' 'Give Em Enought Rope' and be amazed at the sonic difference. The first shows how much Chris Spedding tried to find a silk purse in a sow's ear, the second shows Sandy Pearlman's classic approach (even though the band hated the sessions at the time).

[oldpotatoe]

I'm getting a turntable. Yes, there's nobody more twee than me. Regardless, I have a question: are there albums* that are especially worth buying on vinyl?

* Or whatever the kids call them these days.

I have over a hundred I'll give ya. Beatles, Rolling Stones, Janis Ian, Simon and Garfunkl, Judy Collins, PPM, type. I have a list at home I'll send you, give me an email....used but ok, all or nothing. You pay ship(they are heavy) or come get them in Boulder.

[thwart]

… or come get them in Boulder.

And there's a mad dash to OP's place...

[SlackMan]

Check Music Direct's website for a huge selection of vinyl.

[pinkshogun]

in my area of the world there are still record conventions to buy old/used vinyl

[Scuzzer]

Funnily enough, it really isn't about the delivery device. It never was.

+1 on this. I love records, tube amps and old consoles but the fun for me is refurbing the old electronics and spinning vinyl from my youth and earlier. I'm listening to an old Sinatra Christmas album on the 58 Grundig console as I type this.

Sometimes records can sound better than cd/files simply because you can't brickwall the sound levels as ridiculously as can be done with data, although to me most reasonably mastered recordings sound remarkably similar between the formats. For the best chance at finding really good sounding records look for albums that were specifically mastered for the format. They're out there but they usually aren't cheap. My usual M.O. is to hit the record store with $50 and come home with 8 to 10 old jazz, classical and rock albums that were made when records were king, that same $50 will get you one high zoot 200 gram audiophile record.

Be careful, there's as much N+1 in audio as there is cycling. To truly get the most of of vinyl you can easily spend a carbon bikes worth and just as easily a few months later decide that you really needed to spend 2x as much. My wife has never imposed a number limit on my bikes but she put her foot down on old tube consoles, no more than 4 in the living area at once.

[jtakeda]

I think you'll hear more of a sonic difference from your receiver and speakers than you would from specific LPs.

They're all going to sound better, it's all about your set up

[thirdgenbird]

The key thing, for me, is that I'd like to know about recordings that are *especially* worth owning on vinyl. I ask because I'm not going to replicate my entire music collection. But I will buy particular things, either new to me or not, if they sound especially good on vinyl.

That's why I reccomend Lazaretto. It has some very unique features. There is even a hologram on side a. It looks like a standard record,but when you shine a light on it when it spins, you see two spinning angels. There is also a track with two unique intros depending on where you drop the needle.

[akelman]

I have over a hundred I'll give ya. Beatles, Rolling Stones, Janis Ian, Simon and Garfunkl, Judy Collins, PPM, type. I have a list at home I'll send you, give me an email....used but ok, all or nothing. You pay ship(they are heavy) or come get them in Boulder.

I'll happily pay shipping, OP. Media Mail isn't that expensive. I mean, it's not cheap, but I'm eager to have your old collection.

[akelman]

Be careful, there's as much N+1 in audio as there is cycling. To truly get the most of of vinyl you can easily spend a carbon bikes worth and just as easily a few months later decide that you really needed to spend 2x as much. My wife has never imposed a number limit on my bikes but she put her foot down on old tube consoles, no more than 4 in the living area at once.

Yeah, I know. I have an old Carver amp, nice enough Paradigm speakers, and the new table on the way. It should be a fine setup, and I don't anticipate chasing true audiophile sound. That said, this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cjjsz14hL48) is relevant.

[juanj]

Depending on your age and musical preferences...

REM and U2 only sound good on vinyl, or at least I've always felt.

In general, early to mid-80s analogue-to-digital transitional music sounds best on vinyl. Check out Dave Grohl's film, Sound City. Many of the albums mentioned (Tom Petty, Fleatwood Mac) will sound great on vinyl.

Jazz always sounds fantastic, so does Wilco. White Stripes albums (early ones?) were recorded analogue. Tift Merritt was meant for vinyl.

My particular passion is 70s-80s Tex-Mex Conjunto--only on vinyl!

[akelman]

Depending on your age and musical preferences...

REM and U2 only sound good on vinyl, or at least I've always felt.

In general, early to mid-80s analogue-to-digital transitional music sounds best on vinyl. Check out Dave Grohl's film, Sound City. Many of the albums mentioned (Tom Petty, Fleatwood Mac) will sound great on vinyl.

Jazz always sounds fantastic, so does Wilco. White Stripes albums (early ones?) were recorded analogue. Tift Merritt was meant for vinyl.

My particular passion is 70s-80s Tex-Mex Conjunto--only on vinyl!

Thanks for this. I've already ordered the early White Strips, Wilco, REM, the remastered Beatles and Zeppelin, and a few others: some Bowie, Iggy and the Stooges, Clash, Stones, etc.

[FlashUNC]

Only one album you really need...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0c/Velvet_Underground_and_Nico.jpg

[jtakeda]

Only one album you really need...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0c/Velvet_Underground_and_Nico.jpg

Good luck finding one of those.

I sold my copy last year for over $1100. Guess where that money went? :p

[saab2000]

Is vinyl the silk tubular of the audio world?

In other words, aficionados can tell the difference but files are good enough for 99% of listeners?

[Scuzzer]

Is vinyl the silk tubular of the audio world?

Yep. Analog vs. digital is the tubular vs. clincher debate. I think the terminology is a bit more over the top on the audio side though.

[Scuzzer]

I have an old Carver amp, nice enough Paradigm speakers, and the new table on the way.

Nice stuff. Which table? And more importantly which cartridge?

[akelman]

It's a relatively low-end Pro-Ject (http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=1xpressioncarbonclassic&cat=turntables&lang=en) with an slightly upgraded cartridge: a Sumiko Blue Point No. 2.

[akelman]

Only one album you really need...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0c/Velvet_Underground_and_Nico.jpg

Already purchased (one of the remastered ones, of course).

[Scuzzer]

It's a relatively low-end Pro-Ject (http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=1xpressioncarbonclassic&cat=turntables&lang=en) with an slightly upgraded cartridge: a Sumiko Blue Point No. 2.

Nicely built, well regarded stuff. I use a lower priced high output MC as well (Benz Silver), seems to be the best bang for the buck level in cartridges these days.

Already purchased (one of the remastered ones, of course).

I'm liking you guys more and more. I'm more of a John Cale rather than a Lou Reed fan but that's some good stuff there. One of my favorite vinyl purchases of the last few years was Cale's Circus Live album.

http://eil.com/images/main/John-Cale-Circus-Live-389283.jpg

[jtakeda]

I'd recommend

Captain beyond - self titled
Iggy pop - lust for life
Stooges- fun house
Flower travellin band- satori
Blue cheer- inside/outside
Mc5 high time.
John Coltrane- blue train
Alice cooper- love it to death.
13th floor elevators- Easter everywhere.
Thin lizzy- jailbreak
Thin Lizzy- fighting

All excellent on vinyl and essential listens.

One thing I seem to notice more on record than digital is how an album is laid out.

Ie. Song selection (opening track of a side and b side) and closing tracks as well

[akelman]

One thing I seem to notice more on record than digital is how an album is laid out.

Ie. Song selection (opening track of a side and b side) and closing tracks as well

Yup. Well-constructed albums are like books: they have a beginning, middle, and end. See, for example, Neutral Milk Hotel's In The Aeroplane Over the Sea.

[bcroslin]

I've had the vinyl itch for a while but I'm intimidated when I look at the gear. Hope this isn't a thread jack but can anyone recommend good audio gear that can be found used and won't break the bank? I'm talking just a turntable, receiver and speakers. Nothing tube because I've googled the stuff and it makes buying handmade bikes look like a trip to Walmart.

[bcroslin]

Yup. Well-constructed albums are like books: they have a beginning, middle, and end. See, for example, Neutral Milk Hotel's In The Aeroplane Over the Sea.

Most amazing album ever.

[mister]

pretty much anything i've had that dischord put out sounds awesome on vinyl
they recently started remastering some of their catalog
you can get a few lungfish LP's that have long been oop, doubt that's your thing though

tom waits stuff always sounds nice on vinyl

doubt you will find LP's sounding much better than the cd's
better than mp3 files...perhaps

have to admit though, having a large amount of LP's seems way more awesome and appealing than a bunch of cd's in their jewel cases

[jtakeda]

I've had the vinyl itch for a while but I'm intimidated when I look at the gear. Hope this isn't a thread jack but can anyone recommend good audio gear that can be found used and won't break the bank? I'm talking just a turntable, receiver and speakers. Nothing tube because I've googled the stuff and it makes buying handmade bikes look like a trip to Walmart.

Vintage marantz or sansui are pretty great and reliable.


Without a budget it's hard to recommend stuff.

Sansui 8080db klipsch or AR speakers and a technics sl-10 should do the trick.

[fil]

It's a relatively low-end Pro-Ject (http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=1xpressioncarbonclassic&cat=turntables&lang=en) with an slightly upgraded cartridge: a Sumiko Blue Point No. 2.

i have been very happy with my xpression for probably 6 years. i would recommend the speedbox if you plan to switch between 33 and 45 much.

[akelman]

i have been very happy with my xpression for probably 6 years. i would recommend the speedbox if you plan to switch between 33 and 45 much.

That's great to hear, thanks. And given that I won't be using 45s much, I'll probably skip the speedbox.

[akelman]

I've had the vinyl itch for a while but I'm intimidated when I look at the gear. Hope this isn't a thread jack but can anyone recommend good audio gear that can be found used and won't break the bank? I'm talking just a turntable, receiver and speakers. Nothing tube because I've googled the stuff and it makes buying handmade bikes look like a trip to Walmart.

If you want to avoid tubes, NAD amps are reliable and can be had for not much money at all. Also, if you're anywhere near State College, PA, I have a very decent pair of Polk speakers (they're huge) that I'd sell for a song. As for a turntable, the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=debutcarbondc&cat=turntables&lang=en) gets uniformly excellent reviews and is available new for $400. I've seen them used and in great shape for $300.

[akelman]

Come to think of it, I have a beautiful Luxman amp that needs to be reconditioned. If I can't find a local place to do the job, you're welcome to that as well. You'd need to find someone who knows what they're doing to fix it. But if you can pull that off, it's a truly excellent piece of equipment, though it doesn't have as much power as the Carver I'm using now.

[phcollard]

That's a great move Ari. I haven't owned a turntable for 15 years but I still have my vinyl collection which I will never sell. Vinyls just sound so great, especially everything that has been recorded analog before the digital era. Think jazz, acoustic music, classic rock. I even have a couple operas on vinyl that are pure nirvana. Take that with a nice single malt and life is great. If you can run your turntable through a tube amp that's even better. Part of the enjoyment for me is also visual. I never get tired of seeing a turntable play a record. CDs and digital files have nothing like it, they're just more "sterile" (?).

[akelman]

That's a great move Ari. I haven't owned a turntable for 15 years but I still have my vinyl collection which I will never sell. Vinyls just sound so great, especially everything that has been recorded analog before the digital era. Think jazz, acoustic music, classic rock. I even have a couple operas on vinyl that are pure nirvana. Take that with a nice single malt and life is great. If you can run your turntable through a tube amp that's even better. Part of the enjoyment for me is also visual. I never get tired of seeing a turntable play a record. CDs and digital files have nothing like it, they're just more "sterile" (?).

Yup, I agree. I love the look of a nice turntable and love the sound of vinyl, especially recordings that pre-date the digital era.

[Scuzzer]

can anyone recommend good audio gear that can be found used and won't break the bank?

1. Buy a set of used speakers that you like and work for your layout.
2. Get a new class D amp off of ebay that will comfortably drive the speakers you chose to the sound level you desire. You only need a receiver if you plan on listening to the radio and it's cheaper to buy a separate tuner since nobody wants those anymore.
3. Buy a classic late 70s or early 80s turntable. A Thorens 160 or higher class Pioneer table should be fairly cheap. Get a new phono cartridge to go with it.

All of this can be fairly inexpensive if you don't have any audiophile intentions.

Come to think of it, I have a beautiful Luxman amp that needs to be reconditioned. If I can't find a local place to do the job, you're welcome to that as well.

Oooooh, that sounds like a good way to go. Just like bikes, if you can do your own wrenching you can save a ton of cash over having someone else do it. An amp that just needs to be recapped shouldn't completely break the bank even if you have to pay someone else to do it.

[bcroslin]

Come to think of it, I have a beautiful Luxman amp that needs to be reconditioned. If I can't find a local place to do the job, you're welcome to that as well. You'd need to find someone who knows what they're doing to fix it. But if you can pull that off, it's a truly excellent piece of equipment, though it doesn't have as much power as the Carver I'm using now.

That's very generous of you but I think I'm going to wait until I have a little more room in the house and time on my hands. In other words I'll wait until my daughter is in college next year. :)

[IFRider]

I rediscovered vinyl about 5 years ago after amassing a large CD and AAC collection. I fell into the too much music, to randomly accessible. I picked up a Music Hall turntable and a Project USB Phono Amp/Dac to add to my system and can't tell you how much I loved getting back into vinyl. All my old vinyl sounds so much better than the garbage turntable I had when CD's became the fashion. Mine is no highend audiophile setup (B&K, Snell, SVS running a Cambridge Audio DAC), the fresh vinyl sounds so much sweeter. There is something to be said for putting an album on and listening as the producer intended and having to pay attention to flip. Some of my favorite albums (new and old) include Dark Side of the Moon, Whish You Were Here, Miles Davis Kind of Blue, Coltrane Blue Train, Jack White Blunderbuss, Melody Gardot My One and Only Thrill, Van Morrison Moondance, Morcheeba Head Up High and other depending upon your taste. The new Floyd is very good on Vinyl as is the remastered Zeppelin if you don't already have original as I did. The real gems were the vinyl I bought before CD's took over. My Zappa and Mobile Fidelity Masters of King Crimson sound remarkable although my wife would beg to differ. I now buy most of my vinyl through Amazon as there are limited choices where I live and I specifically look at vinyl with AutoRip which give me MP3's to listen to also. If the album is something to listen to with intent, I will spring for vinyl.

As far as used stuff goes, turntables can be tough as either they are very old or well used. I was looking a the used market and it was hard to determine what was good. As far as the rest goes, there is a lot a good deals to be had with people moving to smaller systems for spousal approval on speakers or moving to the latest Home THeater stuff. For instance, you can score a very nice B&K AV reciever for $500 that can easily be repaired as they are an American company still producing stuff here. Speakers are more as people move to music everywhere or smaller stuff. Check Audiogon for used stuff. Be sure to check vintages and not just names. There is a fair number of classic big names that went from boutique to commodity through the home theater explosion and often their quality failed. If there is one hobby people more about equipment than cycling it is audio, so search around and you will find.

Warren

[idrinkwater]

i got this
http://www.popsike.com/pix/20100220/400104632417.jpg
also an errol garner record. Vinyl is the only way to go.

[Scuzzer]

My...Mobile Fidelity Masters of King Crimson sound remarkable although my wife would beg to differ.

Glad I'm not alone in that. I've probably got more Crimson around here than anything else but I only listen to it when Mrs. Scuzzer is out of the house.

[nighthawk]

Miles Davis - Bitches Brew and In A Silent Way

Essential.

[mister]

this is pretty awesome. the tago mago LP is awesome too.
http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Tapes-Can/dp/B009K50MU4/ref=tmm_vnl_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=&qid=

this should be too, but i haven't even actually opened this one yet...
http://www.amazon.com/Orphans-Vinyl-Tom-Waits/dp/B002TJR5HG

[pinkshogun]

Kiss Alive II

[Duende]

I'd recommend

Captain beyond - self titled
Iggy pop - lust for life
Stooges- fun house
Flower travellin band- satori
Blue cheer- inside/outside
Mc5 high time.
John Coltrane- blue train
Alice cooper- love it to death.
13th floor elevators- Easter everywhere.
Thin lizzy- jailbreak
Thin Lizzy- fighting

All excellent on vinyl and essential listens.

One thing I seem to notice more on record than digital is how an album is laid out.

Ie. Song selection (opening track of a side and b side) and closing tracks as well

You had me until Alice Cooper. Nice taste!

[daker13]

Congrats on your purchase. My best piece of advice is, find a good local record store(s) try to buy your vinyl there. The reissue game has really exploded, and a lot of the stuff being re-released is over-priced and poor quality. A 70s-80s reissue of a Coltrane or Velvet Underground record will (naturally) be all analog, better sounding, and a lot cheaper than a contemporary $20 reissue. Just make sure you only buy clean copies. There's probably at least one good record store in your town. Philly has some great record stores.

A good local record store should have clean copies of nearly all the records mentioned in this thread for under $10 each, but you may have keep an eye out for them.

You mention Neutral Milk Hotel--that's one you DEFINITELY want on vinyl. Great pressing.

New vinyl for me today: Ex-Hex 'Rips' (I have the cd and its one of my favorites this year), Cave (sounds like Can, in a good way), and the new reissue of the UK mono mix of the White Album (which is supposed to be amazing and is one of those records I'd never be able to find, let alone afford, an original copy of).

[mister]

New vinyl for me today: Ex-Hex 'Rips' (I have the cd and its one of my favorites this year), Cave (sounds like Can, in a good way), and the new reissue of the UK mono mix of the White Album (which is supposed to be amazing and is one of those records I'd never be able to find, let alone afford, an original copy of).

yeah cave is pretty awesome. band i'm in played with them when they came here (twice) so i bought the LPs straight from them. they don't sound any better but that support goes straight to the band while they tour...

thrill jockey usually puts out nice pressing too. liturgy has one coming out soon (i think) that is going to be insane if their last show was any indication, greg fox is with them again...might check out guardian alien (greg fox) while at thrill jockey too. sickest drumming. so sick.

[fuzzalow]

Listening to vinyl LPs is the preferred experience for how I like to hear music because it sets the mindset that it is an enjoyment and a pleasure that you have made time for. For me, it's kinda like allowing yourself to take a road trip of the consciousness with the LP as your guide.

The sound quality of LPs over full range FLAC files is not always superior. The relative cost of good vinyl playback versus good digital playback is much more cost effective on the side of digital. IMO the entire audiophile experience subsumes the listening of music to the thrill of experiencing small nuances in the audiophile's listening environment. There's nothing wrong with that, cyclists can be the same way in their realm.

As far as recordings/LPs? Almost nothing is bad although if your taste is Jazz in any form, original vinyl LPs of that genre are long gone (as in bought up) or priced like Fabrege eggs for their rarity. Rock/Pop is still fairly easy. Sounds cliché but own at least the LP for Dark Side of the Moon. 40+ years later it still burns brightly in its creative spark which is opaqued only by the fact that people have heard it so much over the last 40+ years!

Vinyl is great fun. The first night I got my rig working I listened to The Concert for Bangla Desh (including Ravi's side 1) followed by Exile on Main Street. Then I went back and replayed Dylan's side from Bangla Desh! 'Cos every time I hear Exile, the murk and ominous pall of drug use, creative obsession and the alternating lucid and addled tone heard in those tracks makes for a wild, intimidating experience. I didn't wanna end on that vibe so I replayed Dylan to recapture the joy of the crowd seeing Dylan live after so long an absence from the concert stage. George Harrison tried to do good and tried to make a difference.

[verticaldoug]

Frampton Comes Alive
Police Outlandos d'amour (just for roxanne)
Fugees The Score
Beatles Revolver

I'd also dig around the old blue note catalogs and some old reggae

[texbike]

Wow! I shouldn't have opened this thread as I definitely don't need another obsession.

One of my neighbors has a room dedicated to nothing but LPs and audio gear. Another has an extensive collection of classic Fender Rhodes pianos. Both make my modest collection of old clunker bikes look sane. :rolleyes:

Texbike

[bcroslin]

Does anyone know if modern LP's are mastered differently than CD's or mp3's? I remember reading somewhere that starting back in the late 90's or so that most music destined for mp3's was mastered with everything turned way up which essentially crushed the sound to make it sound loud. I'm sure Steve Albini was behind that.

[Web1111a]

Come to think of it, I have a beautiful Luxman amp that needs to be reconditioned. If I can't find a local place to do the job, you're welcome to that as well. You'd need to find someone who knows what they're doing to fix it. But if you can pull that off, it's a truly excellent piece of equipment, though it doesn't have as much power as the Carver I'm using now.

Which Luxman amp do you have ?

[mcteague]

I've been into audio for a long time but have always been on the objective side of things. All this nonsense about cable materials changing the sound, and little disks put on top of speakers, etc, drives me crazy. The return to vinyl is just another puzzlement. I could not wait to move to CD if for nothing else than the lack of clicks and pops. The rush to CD did cause many mfgrs to use masters, made for LPs, for CD pressings. This resulted in many disks sounding pretty bad. A well recorded piece of music, properly mastered for CD, is a thing of beauty. Why reduce the bass, treble and add the noise of old technology?

If you prefer vinyl sound I think it is all down to the distortion added by dragging a needle over plastic.

Tim

[jlwdm]

I've been into audio for a long time but have always been on the objective side of things. All this nonsense about cable materials changing the sound, and little disks put on top of speakers, etc, drives me crazy. The return to vinyl is just another puzzlement. I could not wait to move to CD if for nothing else than the lack of clicks and pops. The rush to CD did cause many mfgrs to use masters, made for LPs, for CD pressings. This resulted in many disks sounding pretty bad. A well recorded piece of music, properly mastered for CD, is a thing of beauty. Why reduce the bass, treble and add the noise of old technology?

If you prefer vinyl sound I think it is all down to the distortion added by dragging a needle over plastic.

Tim

-100

I don't play vinyl though as it has been too big a hassle for me. Although good digital sound has a lot of complications with ripping, servers and digital playback equipment. Both vinyl and digital can get very expensive.

CDs and digital are getting better. I am a believer that cables and many other things make a difference.

As I have been moving too often I sold about 30 pieces of audio equipment this year to make life simpler and now I have purchased a house and basically have to start over.



Jeff

[gomango]

Those of us that live in or near the Twin Cities are spoiled with vinyl shops.

My favorite is Barely Brothers, a true haven for vinyl nut cases like myself.

One of the owners is Mike Elias, a fellow record store employee back in the 80s and 90s.

They don't have a website that I am aware of, but they do have a Facebook page.

If there is a long lost album you need, try contacting Mike.

As far as gear goes, I'm still cruising along with twin Phase Linear 200s, an Audio Research pre-amp, a Thorens 145 turntable and four Klipsch KG 4s. When we bought this house, I was required to sell my Altec Lansing Voice of the Theatres. Something about the kids going deaf. :)

I have had it all in storage for the past year while we remodeled the basement but I am ready to convene with the tunes. Needless to say, I still have more albums than I'll admit to after being in the music business for 15 years.

[phcollard]

The return to vinyl is just another puzzlement. I could not wait to move to CD if for nothing else than the lack of clicks and pops. The rush to CD did cause many mfgrs to use masters, made for LPs, for CD pressings. This resulted in many disks sounding pretty bad. A well recorded piece of music, properly mastered for CD, is a thing of beauty. Why reduce the bass, treble and add the noise of old technology?

If you prefer vinyl sound I think it is all down to the distortion added by dragging a needle over plastic.

Tim

It's not all about noise. It's about musicality and I think that LP's still have an edge over CD's in this field. I would invite you to a proper blind test of the same recording on a $1k turntable vs a $1k CD player. You could be amazed :)

[Dave Ferris]

Years ago at a rehearsal at my house, I remember playing both the CD and LP version of the best selling jazz album of all time - Kind of Blue/Miles Davis- for everyone in the band. I had mentioned the bass was fuller and thicker on the vinyl and just an overall fatter sound from the LP.

So this was around the time of the apex of the CD. Everyone had long sold/traded in their extensive vinyl collection for CDs. They all thought I was going deaf when I made this comment.

Well you should have seen the look on everyone's faces when I A-B 'ed from my preamp source the same song. Yes the vinyl had the typical surface noise of scratches and such, but the audio difference was clearly night and day to the amazement of everyone...lol

Back in the day my stuff was fairly high end. By today's standards it's just ok I guess. But if they're making them as good as they used to- a definite +1 for the NAD stuff.

I still have :

Denon DP-23F turn-table with an SAE cartridge
NAD 5000 CD player
NAD 1240 pre & 2200 power amp
Kef 104/2 speakers

Truth be told, I rarely listen to any of my fairly vast collection of Jazz/Classical CDs & LPs anymore. After spending all day on the piano, basically I need to give my ears a rest from all music.

Most of my casual listening is done over my iMac speakers of a youtube or something someone might put up on Soundcloud. I have all my $$$$ tied up in Pro Audio studio gear like- mics, preamps, AD converters, studio monitors and such.

Oh yeah...and that Potts 29er I just got in Sept.:cool:

[cash05458]

yeah, rule of thumb pretty much is if it was recorded analogue it is going to sound better...if it was recorded digitally, which most things are now then not so much...so older records sounds great...say, around mid to late eighties and backwards...altho funny enough, Lp's I made back in early 80's that I hear now on cd reissues that have been digitally remastered by someone who knows what they are doing from both worlds (i.e. analogue recording and digital transfers and mixing ect) I actually prefer the digital remasters...odd as I would have thought otherwise...guess you never know really...

[Ken Robb]

I have an extensive collection of vinyl and CDs. Vinyl CAN sound better but it requires:
1-Good turntable/cartridge that is well set up. I have heard some expensive systems sound dreadful due to improper adjustment of the phono equipment.

2-Good records. Not only must they have been well recorded and mastered but they had to have been good pressings and kept in good condition. Vinyl pressings are made from metallic masters that wear a little with each disc produced. At some point the sound quality transferred to the vinyl starts to deteriorate due to this wear. This is why "identical" LPs can look the same but sound so different. An LP wears a little with each playing even when kept clean and played on a high quality turntable. Playing a dirty LP on a bad turntable can ruin it in one session. A CD will sound the same, for better or worse, indefinitely. It's like Campy vs. Shimano: I like them both when they are in good shape and well set up. :-)

[velomonkey]

Ok, so I read 5 pages of this - how on earth did we get 5 pages without someone saying this - cause if you're going old school you this is a must have rule . . . .

Now this is the most important, Rat. When it comes down to making out, whenever possible, put on side one of Led Zeppelin IV.

[velomonkey]

I'm not sure stuff is really any better on vinyl than on digital (we're talking good digital, not spotify). The big reason for vinyl is there are some records which are just meant to be listened through from start to finish and the needle being placed on the record is just part of the experience. Mostly old school stuff - the typical stuff - jazz, 70s rock, some 80s stuff like REM, Pearl Jam did a lot of good stuff and Jack White tries, too (though it just smells of smug to me).

In terms of hardware - I'm a bit of an audio junky, not as bad as bikes. I found Marantz is still doing good stuff, picked one up last year and it's great. Speaker wise I'm been fond of Polk - just good stuff - they sent me a 50% off anything a few weeks ago - I just didn't have the cash. Right now on my music and 5.1 TV I have front & center by polk - sub by JBL and rear is some old bad speakers. Works fine, but want to go all polk when I can.

FYI - if you do want a good sounding streaming service - check out http://www.tidalhifi.com/us - way, way better than Spotify with an almost as-good library, but much better sound.

[jtakeda]

If we're going ahead and sharing our systems I'll chime in again.

I'm running a fisher 500c through klipsch forte speakers and a thorens 125 mkii


Mostly have rock related records but that includes psych, hard rock, classic, punk, killed by death, power pop.

Also have soul and country records but not nearly as many as rock.

Mostly into obscuro 70s rock, power pop and OZ stuff these days though.

[cash05458]

"OZ stuff these days though"...good old Birdman always sounded great on plastic...the new christs first long player as well with bed o nails...great stuff...not to derail the audiophiles here...keep going on setups of course and by all means!

[parris]

The website analog planet has some good info. Like any hobby some parts of it can get pretty involved.

Audiokarma is a site with a good forum. I found good info on some of my early Pioneer and Yamaha gear there.

I'm fortunate/cursed in that I live less than 1/2 mile from Audio Classics which is a big Mac and other high end dealer. They've got a good website, but lock up your plastic!

There are good techs in many parts of the country that can sort out problems with vintage gear which "can" be a cool option.

[rustychisel]

"OZ stuff these days though"...good old Birdman always sounded great on plastic...the new christs first long player as well with bed o nails...great stuff...not to derail the audiophiles here...keep going on setups of course and by all means!

Oh yeah... New Christs I Saw God, No Way On Earth, Born Out Of Time. Actually, I have the 'Distemper' album on both vinyl and CD.

[mcteague]

It's not all about noise. It's about musicality and I think that LP's still have an edge over CD's in this field. I would invite you to a proper blind test of the same recording on a $1k turntable vs a $1k CD player. You could be amazed :)

Define"musicality" in the context of reproducing a signal accurately. Proper blind tests show no audible difference, playing music, between cables, amps and CD players as long as they are well designed and not pushed beyond their design limits. You don't need a blind test to hear that LP playback sounds different than CD. You prefer it, I understand. What I am saying is that LPs can never reproduce the original master nearly as well as a CD. Dragging a needle along a groove does add noise, this is just a fact. It has also been well documented that many people like the added noise feeling that it adds depth and, well musicality. The whole point of Hi-Fi, IMO, is to reproduce sound with as much fidelity to the original as possible. I prefer to get as close to the master tape as I can.

Tim

[dancinkozmo]

...

[phcollard]

Proper blind tests show no audible difference, playing music, between cables, amps and CD players as long as they are well designed and not pushed beyond their design limits.

Tim

You say you want to be as close to the source but say you take a 70's jazz recording. If you own the vinyl and it's in great condition you are closer to the source than a 90's remastered CD version of it. 20 years is a lot for a magnetic original tape even kept in optimal conditions. Also since you mention noise A/D and D/A conversions are not perfect neither. People often tend to think that because it's digital is 100% perfection and will last forever but...

[fil]

Those of us that live in or near the Twin Cities are spoiled with vinyl shops.

My favorite is Barely Brothers, a true haven for vinyl nut cases like myself.

One of the owners is Mike Elias, a fellow record store employee back in the 80s and 90s.

They don't have a website that I am aware of, but they do have a Facebook page.

If there is a long lost album you need, try contacting Mike.

As far as gear goes, I'm still cruising along with twin Phase Linear 200s, an Audio Research pre-amp, a Thorens 145 turntable and four Klipsch KG 4s. When we bought this house, I was required to sell my Altec Lansing Voice of the Theatres. Something about the kids going deaf. :)

I have had it all in storage for the past year while we remodeled the basement but I am ready to convene with the tunes. Needless to say, I still have more albums than I'll admit to after being in the music business for 15 years.


in addition to lots of record stores needle doctor is local. pretty much everything ive picked up here has been open box stuff and significantly discounted.

[fil]

Speaker wise I'm been fond of Polk - just good stuff - they sent me a 50% off anything a few weeks ago - I just didn't have the cash. Right now on my music and 5.1 TV I have front & center by polk - sub by JBL and rear is some old bad speakers. Works fine, but want to go all polk when I can.


i bought some lsi9s when we were living in a condo and love them. they have enough low end to not need a sub. they blew away the similarly priced paradigm and b&ws i looked at when i bought.

[Duende]

Does anyone know if modern LP's are mastered differently than CD's or mp3's? I remember reading somewhere that starting back in the late 90's or so that most music destined for mp3's was mastered with everything turned way up which essentially crushed the sound to make it sound loud. I'm sure Steve Albini was behind that.

Vinyl has it's own required mastering techniques as does digital. For instance Vinyl require the mastering engineer to mono-ize all frequencies below 20-30hz depending on the content. This is to facilitate proper tracking of the record needle.

CD's obviously do not have this problem, but they have their own limitations such as having a brickwall amplitude ceiling of 16-bit or 96db (theoretically). So mastering engineers have techniques and work-arounds for this medium as well.

One common technique today is to litteral "clip" the audio or saw off the tops of amplitude transients found in the music or order to squeeze more amplitude into the master.

The "loudness war' trend in modern music that you speak of is exactly this. A competition to get music content as near as possible to that amplitude ceiling. Sacrificing dynamics and audio fidelity in order to be louder than what's out there. It's a horrible trend in music listening these days that's only compounded by the mass usage of earbuds and the like.

On the contrary, Albini is not a mastering engineer, but a musician, producer and recording engineer. And actually is one of the most respected engineers out there (rightly so imo), known for preserving dynamics in his audio production and being a musical purist. In that he uses very little outboard dynamics when mixing and for the most part stays true to the original artist's performance.

MP3's is just a form of digital data compression created to save file space at at time when CD files were considered too large. There was a small effort to master "for MP3's" but that never took off.

[mister]

i bought some lsi9s when we were living in a condo and love them. they have enough low end to not need a sub. they blew away the similarly priced paradigm and b&ws i looked at when i bought.

me and one of my brothers bought my other brother some lsi9's for their wedding gift.
heard them last night actually, they sound really nice.

speaking of albini, that nirvana in utero LP is pretty awesome...

[fuzzalow]

I have dabbled with the audiophile hobby. I had participated in audiophile clubs and gatherings in the NYMetro area. These are attended by some very nice people and a few Absolute Sound heavyweights. As a general observance, they were welcoming and not judgmental about audio gear - which is not to say they did not have strong opinions and passions as any specialized hobby naturally would.

If you listen to different gear and setups, they do sound slightly different. This has always been true, for both the recording and the playback side of things and for as long as musicians have been laying down tracks. For example The Beatles had preference for certain mixing consoles at Abbey Road studios that had sound characteristics over other consoles found in other rooms and studios.

There are many ways to enjoy the pursuit of enjoying recorded music. From the 'straight wire with gain' contingent to the lush euphonics of the SET (single-ended triode) tube preamps and amp enthusiasts. It is all good.

For me, I chose not to chase an ever changing and fleeting ideal of great stereo sound. So I have audiophile gear that was only made up of one minor revision of equipment. Every piece was bought pre-owned from Audiogon. It sounds great to me. Harbeth speakers! My addiction turned out to be guitars and not stereos. I chose instead to pursue playing the electric guitar which I was finally convinced to have a go with by some these same guys I met at the audiophile meetings. I think the big difference some audiophiles strive for is like a difference between a .008 E string and a .010 E string on an electric guitar. But they helped me find the electric guitar and I understand their pursuit as meaningful however esoteric it may seem to an outsider.

BTW, there is a sound difference to cables and power cords! A Shunyata power cord is what brought my audiophile career to a halt. I tried one in my setup and heard a difference! I blind A-B tested it in my setup and could pick the Shunyata cord out 100% of the time! I just looked at that power cord, looked at all number of components that might be improved by giving each one an expensive power cord and said "Oh no! I'm not falling down this rabbit hole! I give! No mas, no mas!". That's when I quit audiophilia.

[Rednivek]

Wow, lots of good (to me) choices in music. No surprise that cyclists seem to have some alternative music in common. Maybe the cyclist/skater culture.

I have a Technics SL-1200MK5 with a Audio Technica AT440MLa cartridge running through a 25 yr old Optimus Receiver and outputting through Axiom speakers that I just got this year. Sounds great.

Lazaretto is an awesome album for the holograms, backwards track, double track merging back into one, hidden tracks under the label, matte finish like a 78 on one side and glossy like a 33 on the other.... and the music isn't bad either.

Other fancy records I just got.... Yellow Brick Road on yellow 180g vinyl... and a translucent red 45 from the Ill Itches (Detroit) that you use as a decoder to read the poster you get with it, revealing a URL for 7 more songs.

For sonic fun...

Some Originals...
Original MC5 album
MC5 High Time
Stooges Funhouse
Black Flag original records (My War being an old point of contention on whether vinyl could even handle the sound)
Pixies
Skinny Puppy
Depeche Mode Speak & Spell

Some Reissues....
Led Zeppelin re-issues (1,2,3...)
Smashing Pumpkins re-issues
Minor Threat Out of Step

Some New stuff....
Jessica Hernandez & the Deltas
OFF! Wasted Years(recorded Analog, Analog, Analog)
JBs from the last Record Store Day
Pixies Indie Cindy
Chelsea Light Moving
After Dark Amusement Park

Always love the digital download codes included in many records.. seems you either get that or you get colored vinyl or some other thing.

There is an avalanche of re-issues happening now, but as others have mentioned your mileage may vary. Particularly if they are just digital copies pressed to vinyl which aren't half as awesome as original masters to vinyl.

[pjmsj21]

Interesting that this subject came up as my daughter gave me a Pro-ject Debut Carbon turntable for Christmas. I have a Marantz 2230 receiver, with a set of Paradigm speakers and subwoofer.

I have long since lost my vinyl collection and look forward to rebuilding it.

Pat

[cash05458]

Oh yeah... New Christs I Saw God, No Way On Earth, Born Out Of Time. Actually, I have the 'Distemper' album on both vinyl and CD.

yep...distemper is AWESOME!!! have you ever heard their cover of the who's "the seeker"...? look that up if you haven't...

just to plug work I did a few centuries ago in LP form and was brought out a few years ago by Merge: http://www.mergerecords.com/volcano-suns

[jtakeda]

yep...distemper is AWESOME!!! have you ever heard their cover of the who's "the seeker"...? look that up if you haven't...

just to plug work I did a few centuries ago in LP form and was brought out a few years ago by Merge: http://www.mergerecords.com/volcano-suns

That's awesome.

I have bright orange years on vinyl. Bought it maybe 6 years ago.

Love merge records too, Polvo is probably my favorite on the label. New record is pretty good.