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FlashUNC
12-19-2014, 10:18 AM
Global Cycling Network takes one of Stephen Roche's treble bikes out for a spin and compares it to modern stuff. I'd take a mix of the two bikes personally. Steel lugs with Campy 11.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZbVsrYPOGE

malcolm
12-19-2014, 10:31 AM
SLX bikes have been some of my favorites over the years. For me I don't think bike tech has made me any faster, though the motor was much better 30 years ago so if I'd had the stuff we have now who knows, but I suspect I'd be equally slow. I think the improvements in gear has been equally or even more useful.

FlashUNC
12-19-2014, 10:35 AM
SLX bikes have been some of my favorites over the years. For me I don't think bike tech has made me any faster, though the motor was much better 30 years ago so if I'd had the stuff we have now who knows, but I suspect I'd be equally slow. I think the improvements in gear has been equally or even more useful.

As the video shows, helmet chin strap technology alone has made the last three decades of progress worth it.

velomateo
12-19-2014, 10:45 AM
Thanks for posting that, I really enjoyed it. What a great bike. I think the rider should have spent a little more time on it before testing - but fun anyway.

velomonkey
12-19-2014, 10:55 AM
Losing 80 watts cause of the shoes - I think not.

funny how he almost preferred the downtube, non-indexed from shifting.

MattTuck
12-19-2014, 11:04 AM
Makes me want to go and pick up a retro bike. :banana:

oldpotatoe
12-19-2014, 11:36 AM
Makes me want to go and pick up a retro bike. :banana:

Older(steel maybe) frames and forks have a lot going for them. Looking at the best combination of what you are looking for in a bicycle frame, steel I think still gets high marks. Stiffness/power transfer, comfort, weight-not light but still not heavy, heavy, looks, crash worthiness, repair ability, price.

Lotsa of 'nice to have' component choices-lever mounted, index shifters, clipless pedals, more modern and useful gearing.

As the guy mentioned....racing/hard training-plastic bike, for the sunny day ride where you ride to enjoy the sport-old iron works really well.

Duende
12-19-2014, 11:48 AM
Pretty sure that bike was a rebranded Ciocc. The brazed Italian flag inlay on the top tune gives it away.

Those old front derailuers are hard to beat still to this day imo.

ceolwulf
12-19-2014, 11:48 AM
Really need one of each :)

Black Dog
12-19-2014, 12:17 PM
Pretty sure that bike was a rebranded Ciocc. The brazed Italian flag inlay on the top tune gives it away.

Those old front derailuers are hard to beat still to this day imo.

That italian flag inlay was use on a lot of brands during that time period. That bike was made by the name on the downtube.

Formulasaab
12-19-2014, 12:47 PM
Thanks for posting. The topic is poignant for me, as I choose to ride a lot of vintage steel. Also, the GCN videos are generally some of my favorites. Those guys just seem to get it.

For me the vintage vs. modern thing is fairly clear. I enjoy vintage more, but I'm faster on modern.

There is one thing about modern that I've recently discovered is worthy of notice... It does make cycling more accessible. It is easier for a novice to jump on a bike with modern indexing, clipless pedals, and compact gearing and still be able to enjoy a brisk ride on the same challenging roads I like to search out. In the days of vintage, they surely had to work harder to build the skills to cover that ground.

malcolm
12-19-2014, 12:57 PM
Thanks for posting. The topic is poignant for me, as I choose to ride a lot of vintage steel. Also, the GCN videos are generally some of my favorites. Those guys just seem to get it.

For me the vintage vs. modern thing is fairly clear. I enjoy vintage more, but I'm faster on modern.

There is one thing about modern that I've recently discovered is worthy of notice... It does make cycling more accessible. It is easier for a novice to jump on a bike with modern indexing, clipless pedals, and compact gearing and still be able to enjoy a brisk ride on the same challenging roads I like to search out. In the days of vintage, they surely had to work harder to build the skills to cover that ground.

I'm sure there are many here old enough, old potatoe, to remember the days of friction shifting and being dead tired and going a cog or two farther than you meant to. I love the new gear but the old skinny tube bikes are awesome.

Bstone
12-19-2014, 02:45 PM
My CAAD 10 just sat and sat while I rode my steel RB-1 and Zurich. Getting ready to part out and sell the CAAD. Weight just doesn't matter that much. Especially in Florida.

Bike tech is like an arms race. Everybody is busy keeping up with the Joneses. If everybody still rode friction and steel, then the winner would be on friction and steel.

Marginal gains are really a bunch of cow dung/marketing sales crap that keeps everybody buying new stuff.

Retro grouches will inherit the Earth (but not win the ride)!

oldpotatoe
12-19-2014, 02:51 PM
I'm sure there are many here old enough, old potatoe, to remember the days of friction shifting and being dead tired and going a cog or two farther than you meant to. I love the new gear but the old skinny tube bikes are awesome.

The days of friction shifting was the other day, on my Moots.

Never was a real issue, pick the gear that would take you over the hill, before the hill, type thing. One nice thing, you hardly ever had to get your dérailleurs' adjusted'. And the shifters never broke.

ntb1001
12-19-2014, 03:01 PM
I loved the comments about the gearing. It really made me think back to my old "straight block" 13-18 freewheel that I rode and raced on. Definate improvement in that area.

LiveFreeOrDie
12-19-2014, 03:08 PM
Once I get the De Rosa SLX built up it will be my hybrid bike. Old steel with modern componentry. Once complete I'll have three bikes to choose from. The vintage (Ciocc), the hybrid (De Rosa), and the "modern" (98 Lemond modern).

Riding old steel brings you back in time. These are the bikes that Merckx, Hinault, Lemond, etc rode. I always wonder what these guys would have been able to do if they were riding the bikes of today.

To me, nothing compares to the beauty of old steel. Franky, I think the bikes being sold today are flat out ugly. They may be amazing performers but everytime I see the new bikes in the shops I start to laugh and shake my head. Each to his own I guess. :cool:

Black Dog
12-19-2014, 03:50 PM
They make it sound like the gearing on that bike was all that was available back in '87. Seriously, 39 (40 for Campy) chainrings and 27-28 cogs were around and were used in races back then. He just happened to get the bike with that gearing which would have been used for flatter rides and assumes that is what they were using to climb the Galibier.

Gummee
12-19-2014, 04:13 PM
I've had a couple of Battaglins. My favorite was my TIG-d SL bike. Flexy flier, but man oh man! was it all-day comfortable. I could watch the BB do figure-8s in a sprint. 1-2cm/side at full gas.

...broke out the SLX bike for those kinds of rides.

I wanted an EL-OS Scapin badly, but by the time I got to PBS in the early 90s, they were getting out of em and no one had my size. :cry

M

malcolm
12-19-2014, 04:32 PM
The days of friction shifting was the other day, on my Moots.

Never was a real issue, pick the gear that would take you over the hill, before the hill, type thing. One nice thing, you hardly ever had to get your dérailleurs' adjusted'. And the shifters never broke.

Very true OP very true.
I often consider building up a friction bike

Duende
12-19-2014, 07:29 PM
That italian flag inlay was use on a lot of brands during that time period. That bike was made by the name on the downtube.

Disagree. I think Ciocc Concorde and Battaglin of this era were all made in the same factory.

Others agree.

http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/875277-battaglin.html

DarkStar
12-19-2014, 07:52 PM
Speaking of vintage and steel bikes, Bicycle Specialties in Toronto have reopened. This news may have been posted earliar.
http://www.bikespecialties.com/about.html

Black Dog
12-19-2014, 10:32 PM
Disagree. I think Ciocc Concorde and Battaglin of this era were all made in the same factory.

Others agree.

http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/875277-battaglin.html

Fair enough, I really did think that it was made in house by Battaglin.

wildboar
12-19-2014, 10:36 PM
1987 World Championship RR finale:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy9Mos0zH-I

stephenmarklay
12-19-2014, 10:43 PM
Fun video. I am really wanting a classic steel ride. I do a have a nice RB-1 with 7 speed and it really enjoy it. I still want something with cool heritage.

After that I need a plastic bike too.

Tandem Rider
12-20-2014, 10:13 AM
I still have the old Colnago I raced and trained on for several years back in the early 80's. I still take it down and ride it sometimes, on nice days. I don't train or race on it anymore, I treat it kind of like you would a '68 convertible.

Pros:
High "cool" factor
Handling is perfect
All day comfort
Rarely needs any adjustments, pump tires and go.


Cons:
Heavy 22-23 lbs, with tubulars
I have shifted it through frame flex alone
Gearing: 53-42 with 12-21, 7 speed
Down tube friction shifting means you have to anticipate everything
Cup and cone bearings mean lots more mechanic time, especially if it rains lots


I sometimes ride it with TR Junior or Mrs TR because it helps to even things out some. And no hairnet, that was for racing only. The hairnet, shoes, jerseys, etc. have all gone MIA decades ago.

Duende
12-20-2014, 12:20 PM
I still have my hairnet. Should put it in a museum. :)

JAllen
12-20-2014, 12:39 PM
Where can you get shoes like he had? I really like using my toe cages for my commuter.

dancinkozmo
12-20-2014, 12:43 PM
Where can you get shoes like he had? I really like using my toe cages for my commuter.

http://www.dromarti.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=10

cool vid...thx for posting

chromopromo
12-20-2014, 02:04 PM
I miss very little when riding my vintage steel except I often cheat with clip-in pedals. The ride is wonderful and the bikes are beautiful. That said, when on a fast hilly ride I need modern shifting to keep pace.

shovelhd
12-20-2014, 02:10 PM
Six speed was brand new when I got out of racing in the eighties. You had to us a special chain that only lasted a thousand miles or so. Began with an S I think.

Echo
12-20-2014, 03:45 PM
Owning one of each, Im totally with the presenter in this video. For hard training rides, or big days in the hills, I take my modern carbon bike, but for just a fun spin around town or a light day, its always fun to get on the old steel bike. The fact that it feels a bit nostalgic makes the period steel bike that much more fun. That said, maybe I just have bad luck with my deltas, but they are a bit scary on descents... He made it seem like they were fine.

oldpotatoe
12-20-2014, 04:55 PM
Owning one of each, Im totally with the presenter in this video. For hard training rides, or big days in the hills, I take my modern carbon bike, but for just a fun spin around town or a light day, its always fun to get on the old steel bike. The fact that it feels a bit nostalgic makes the period steel bike that much more fun. That said, maybe I just have bad luck with my deltas, but they are a bit scary on descents... He made it seem like they were fine.

Do Deltas have the power of DP brakes? No. They are speed controllers. Like we once did with friction shifters, plan ahead, develop that cycling sense and finesse. If set up right, they are fine.

Tandem Rider
12-20-2014, 05:06 PM
Six speed was brand new when I got out of racing in the eighties. You had to us a special chain that only lasted a thousand miles or so. Began with an S I think.

Ha! I remember Sedis chains. they mated well with the SunTour New Winner Ultra 6 freewheels which fit on a 5 speed hub. 6 cogs with the total width of a normal 5 (sounds familiar). Sedis chains also worked well with 7 speed freewheels.

I was working in a bike shop at the time, the shop purchased Sedis chains in bulk packaging, for use in the shop. Being a destitute racer, I saved the 3 or 4 links from each new chain install, later, I would put them together, and have a new chain. I got a new chain every few weeks. Once I even got enough chrome links to get a chrome chain. I was walkin' in tall cotton then. Good times.

johnmdesigner
12-20-2014, 05:15 PM
Ha! I remember Sedis chains. they mated well with the SunTour New Winner Ultra 6 freewheels which fit on a 5 speed hub. 6 cogs with the total width of a normal 5 (sounds familiar). Sedis chains also worked well with 7 speed freewheels.

I was working in a bike shop at the time, the shop purchased Sedis chains in bulk packaging, for use in the shop. Being a destitute racer, I saved the 3 or 4 links from each new chain install, later, I would put them together, and have a new chain. I got a new chain every few weeks. Once I even got enough chrome links to get a chrome chain. I was walkin' in tall cotton then. Good times.

That story makes a good country music song...

johnmdesigner
12-20-2014, 05:38 PM
Oh God I love that Battaglin. I've got the De Rosa equlivant (SLX) hanging from my ceiling right now. With pretty much the same grouppo.
It is a completely different way of riding compared to today. I don't mind down tube shifters at all. There is a proper way to shift them and it takes some practice. But I love the simplicity of it all. I'm happy to have ridden in both ages - the stone age and the modern age.:)
The only thing I would be reluctant to give up would be clipless pedals...

Waldo
12-22-2014, 12:01 AM
Friction bar end shifters are the bomb.

Jgrooms
12-22-2014, 10:59 AM
Starting out on toe straps still impacts my riding, in that I rarely unclip. Its a slow roll or stand. Straps or clips, its still the unsafest part of an intersection. Newbs always in a hurry to put their foot down.

callt5
12-22-2014, 01:01 PM
I picked up a steel Dahon Breakaway(Ritchey) this past summer. Enjoyed the ride so much it was never a dilemma when choosing it over the SuperSix for a ride.

Anxios to get the DeBernardi steel frame back on the road this coming summer. This time built up with Campag.

Thanks for posting the video.

maxcolumbus
12-22-2014, 03:17 PM
That was fun to watch. I just sold my 84 Ciocc. Miss it already. Definitely going to get another classic italian road bike.

redir
12-22-2014, 03:26 PM
Why the modern aero front wheel? Blech, kinda ruins it for me :D

FlashUNC
12-22-2014, 03:39 PM
Why the modern aero front wheel? Blech, kinda ruins it for me :D

They mention it briefly towards the end of the video. The front tire stopped holding air while they were filming. The price of a multi-decade old tubular...

Jaq
12-23-2014, 05:06 AM
To me, the greatest innovations in the last 30 years have been easy entry/exit clipless pedals and brifters. To that end, I agree with the poster who said that the ideal was/is a classic steel frame with Campy 11. Sometime next year, I think I'll put some alloy Athena 11 (and probably compact) on my Waterford and have the perfect set-up. For me, a carbon bike and electric shifting holds no appeal; I'm just not pro enough (not that I ever was) to milk all the advantages out of that tech.

I'd get more out of skipping a couple cheeseburgers.

martinez
12-23-2014, 05:34 AM
^ I completely agree.
part of the reason why I stopped caring for modern/fast/expensive bikes is because I'm nowhere near fast / don't take cycling seriously enough to justify a bike like that. well, I love bikes and riding them, but it is not even close to being something that will involve serious training or whatever.
steel is definitely more my style and logical for me.
not to say that steel is for slowpokes, as I know many of you guys have legs like a cheetah on wheels. I unfortunately, do not :banana:

witcombusa
12-23-2014, 05:49 AM
To me, the greatest innovations in the last 30 years have been easy entry/exit clipless pedals and brifters. To that end, I agree with the poster who said that the ideal was/is a classic steel frame with Campy 11. Sometime next year, I think I'll put some alloy Athena 11 (and probably compact) on my Waterford and have the perfect set-up. For me, a carbon bike and electric shifting holds no appeal; I'm just not pro enough (not that I ever was) to milk all the advantages out of that tech.

I'd get more out of skipping a couple cheeseburgers.


I keep hearing folks say that. For me if you are riding the pedals make zero difference. My feet stay put, usually for the whole ride of 2-3 hours. Plus when I do stop I can actually walk in the same shoes...amazing! As for brifters, they answer a question I've never asked. How to build a heavy, complex mechanism to do something that already works perfectly and is cheap, light and simple.

Dr Luxurious
12-23-2014, 10:05 AM
Circa 1987. That's about the vintage of just about everything I own - and still race!! Hence my sig...
Sheet man, unless you're doing road races with cat 3+ climbs you don't need a $10,000 bike...

redir
12-23-2014, 10:57 AM
They mention it briefly towards the end of the video. The front tire stopped holding air while they were filming. The price of a multi-decade old tubular...

Ah ok missed that.