Headphones and listening for traffic...

[FlashUNC]

Looks like one audio company is trying to find a balance that enables you to do both. Maybe the audiophiles on the board can enlighten on whether this works.

http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/12/13/listen-to-music-while-riding-still-hear-cars-coming-with-the-posse-amk-sound-balancer/

[nooneline]

I prefer an external bluetooth speaker. Can put it on my handlebars or slip into my pocket. Lets me jam out publicly, and hear everything around me too.

[tlittlefield]

You ride your bike to ride your bike!

In my opinion any way you take in the music is still a distraction...

[Dead Man]

Yea... I'm pretty much a Rule 62 conformist. However.. in my mind, there's two different kinds of road riding: serious riding, for training; and then there's commuting, which includes any activity that is just getting you from one place to another place, and generally involves thousands of tortuously flat, boring miles with nothing to do but stare at the whirring patch of pavement 10' in front of your wheel.

In the latter situation, which I haven't had to deal with since last spring.... man, you gotta have something to do. Music, talk radio, movies on Netflix (watched the entire available Archer series over the course of a month or so of commuting- three or four episodes per 1:30 each way).... something. Anything. Riding the same 30 miles of highway over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over..........

In other words, there are some exceptions to Rule 62.

[Chris]

You ride your bike to ride your bike!

In my opinion any way you take in the music is still a distraction...

You're correct. It is your opinion. We're all entitled and I don't begrudge you yours. These threads always end up being highly dogmatic. Hopefully this can be avoided.

[Dead Man]

These threads always end up being highly dogmatic.

I just don't understand why it can't be playfully dogmatic. The consequences of listening to music while riding your bike are NIL. If the infinitesimally small increase in danger bothers you, don't do it: but don't tell anyone else not to.

(said dogmatically)

:banana:

[Saint Vitus]

What I want is a pair of headphones that null out the whining of teenagers...

[seanile]

left ear listens to traffic, right ear listens to music.

[teleguy57]

Dogmatic? Not necessarily, but I hope thoughtful.

Not sure that distracted drivers are worse than distracted cyclists. When I see phrases like dealing with boredom etc it tells me folks are in fact looking to distract themselves from the act of riding. Now if you're on a trail in the woods, maybe music adds to the experience.

On a public road -- I want all drivers, be it of motor vehicles or bikes, to be fully aware of what's around them. IMHO sounds that take away from environmental awareness add risk.

[fuzzalow]

You ride your bike to ride your bike!

In my opinion any way you take in the music is still a distraction...

I agree.

The two experiences and qualities of music and riding are not complementary and IMO do not enhance for the betterment of either but rather detract from both - combine both and the result is a mashup of experiences.

There is nothing about the immersive qualities and seductions of good music that meshes with the meditative and rhythmic cadence of riding a bike. Sensory overload for the ADD in mistaking quantity of sensory inputs as quality over the subtlety of the wind in the ears or the thrum of rubber on pavement.

A brick-walled MP3 blasting disposable 4/4 backbeat drek ruins 90rpm-170watts-140bpm.

[Jgrooms]

Most who rail against wearing them have no exp using them..oh imo.

They think the only option is some bud held in place by filling the ear canal. Nope, there are good options that don't block out much of the surrounding sound. In fact properly placed they block the wind noise & amplify other noises.

Group ride? Nope they are off, but often in & trust me I hear the inane chatter fine.

Solo tempo, intervals & long ass rides. Yep. Scientific fact that music boosts ability. And I've never missed or otherwise been distracted by some sound that was unsafe to me.

[druptight]

Yea... I'm pretty much a Rule 62 conformist. However.. in my mind, there's two different kinds of road riding: serious riding, for training; and then there's commuting, which includes any activity that is just getting you from one place to another place, and generally involves thousands of tortuously flat, boring miles with nothing to do but stare at the whirring patch of pavement 10' in front of your wheel.

In the latter situation, which I haven't had to deal with since last spring.... man, you gotta have something to do. Music, talk radio, movies on Netflix (watched the entire available Archer series over the course of a month or so of commuting- three or four episodes per 1:30 each way).... something. Anything. Riding the same 30 miles of highway over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over..........

In other words, there are some exceptions to Rule 62.

I find this odd. You obviously don't follow "rule 62" because you find it dangerous to listen to music while riding if you have exceptions to that rule. I find your exceptions especially surprising, because for me my commuting periods are really the most dangerous rides I do - traffic is at its heaviest and drivers are at their most distracted (wanting to get home, or tired in the AM).

Then you take this a step further by watching video during your bicycle commute?

Seems to me you're anything but a "rule 62" conformist.

[Saint Vitus]

Then you take this a step further by watching video during your bicycle commute?



I'm guessing this was some form of joke, because that is the stupidest thing to advocate I've read all post.

[93legendti]

I use my phone's speaker to play music during solo rides. Music enhances my concentration. I couldn't study the first year of grad school without it. My 4.0 that year is only a survey of one, but I am the one that is riding.

Music also warns non riders (and animals) that I am approaching behind them, in my experience that is better than "on your left".

Let's stay away from false choices. If you listen to "disposable drek", that's your decision. I listen to good music. ;)

[nm87710]

I agree.

The two experiences and qualities of music and riding are not complementary and IMO do not enhance for the betterment of either but rather detract from both - combine both and the result is a mashup of experiences.

There is nothing about the immersive qualities and seductions of good music that meshes with the meditative and rhythmic cadence of riding a bike. Sensory overload for the ADD in mistaking quantity of sensory inputs as quality over the subtlety of the wind in the ears or the thrum of rubber on pavement.

A brick-walled MP3 blasting disposable 4/4 backbeat drek ruins 90rpm-170watts-140bpm.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19793214

[fuzzalow]

Let's stay away from false choices. If you listen to "disposable drek", that's your decision. I listen to good music. ;)

We often voice opposing sides and opinions which is a good thing. Nuthin' wrong with diversity of views because it is enjoyable repartee and we keep it on the up and up.

I usually frame my arguments in terms of underlying ideas or qualities. You often support your opinions with anecdotes and experiences. Nuthin' wrong with that because I, and forum readers, get what you're saying. And ultimately that is what we are batting around and having fun with.

As far as your comment quoted above: if going through all the rhythmic transpositions and the emotional roller coaster of good music, say a Mahler symphony, is enjoyable and congruent to your riding experience, then more power to you. Nothin' wrong with that. I'm kinda joshing too, 'cos I'd guess riding and Mahler is not as good a combination as say G 'n' R "Mr. Brownstone".

I'm more of a purist. nothin' wrong with that either.

[Dead Man]

I find this odd. You obviously don't follow "rule 62" because you find it dangerous to listen to music while riding if you have exceptions to that rule. I find your exceptions especially surprising, because for me my commuting periods are really the most dangerous rides I do - traffic is at its heaviest and drivers are at their most distracted (wanting to get home, or tired in the AM).

Then you take this a step further by watching video during your bicycle commute?

Seems to me you're anything but a "rule 62" conformist.

What? I didn't say it's dangerous- I said it ISNT dangerous. I offered my own personal exception as an example of possible exceptions - and in my 60 mile round trip commute, when I'm doing it and doing it on the bike, it's 30 miles of straight, endless highway with a 10' wide shoulder. Not a damn thing wrong with plugging in and tuning out. Once I cross the city line and have to negotiate traffic and traffic control, the movies go off and sometimes I even put the earbuds away entirely (but usually still continue to listen to music at least, as it's another few miles inside the city still).

I believe it's entirely possible that your AO doesn't allow for this. Mine does.

But I haven't commuted since last spring... My job simply doesn't always allow it. So I haven't even brought ear buds on a ride since last spring- 100% Rule 62 application.

I'm guessing this was some form of joke, because that is the stupidest thing to advocate I've read all post. nope- 100% legit. But who is ADVOCATING? Like I said, that's what I do. It's my example of possible exceptions. You need to sort through your own.

[Saint Vitus]

nope- 100% legit. But who is ADVOCATING? Like I said, that's what I do. It's my example of possible exceptions. You need to sort through your own.

"man, you gotta have something to do. Music, talk radio, movies on Netflix (watched the entire available Archer series over the course of a month or so of commuting- three or four episodes per 1:30 each way).... something. Anything"

I would take that statement as advocating such activity. I apologize that if calling out watching video while operating a bicycle as a stupid idea offends you, but consider how the rest of the cycling community might take that or even more importantly the non-cycling world. One doesn't operate in a vacuum, your actions do influence others. Would you suggest a motor vehicle operator do such a thing on a long boring drive under similar circumstances?

[makoti]

Safety aside...the right song never seems to be playing when I need it.

[93legendti]

Safety aside...the right song never seems to be playing when I need it.
Playlists! I have ones I make specifically for riding.

[Jgrooms]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/16/691cbe7ac2c30fe0b34de8807e04b89c.jpg

Old Shuffle, inline control - clipped on jers - & Nike buds.

[druptight]

What? I didn't say it's dangerous- I said it ISNT dangerous.

Sorry, I assumed that you saying you're a "rule 62 conformist" meant that you find cycling while listening to music to be a dangerous activity, which was why you conformed. You then went on to describe pretty much the most dangerous possible distraction I could imagine one undertaking while flirting with traffic and said you also partake in that activity, so your post left me a little perplexed.

As far as headphones and riding, I'm pretty much a live and let live guy there. I don't do it, but if another cyclist wants to risk it, it's your life.

[Likes2ridefar]

i wonder how the amp will sound riding alongside the west side highway during rush hour?

I prefer not hearing anything but the music and choose custom in ear monitors. i also wear ear plugs when not wearing monitors most the time I ride.

[Dead Man]

"man, you gotta have something to do. Music, talk radio, movies on Netflix (watched the entire available Archer series over the course of a month or so of commuting- three or four episodes per 1:30 each way).... something. Anything"

I would take that statement as advocating such activity. I apologize that if calling out watching video while operating a bicycle as a stupid idea offends you, but consider how the rest of the cycling community might take that or even more importantly the non-cycling world. One doesn't operate in a vacuum, your actions do influence others. Would you suggest a motor vehicle operator do such a thing on a long boring drive under similar circumstances?

Here be that dogmatic crap that is most definitely not playful... I iz sad

[berserk87]

What I want is a pair of headphones that null out the whining of teenagers...

YES!

It's finals week and I have 2 teens in my house. I would pay a premium for this technology.

[Cornfed]

On the road, I need both ears, but on the bike trail I've ridden a thousand times, I need one ear for other bikes and one ear for a ballgame.

[berserk87]

I don't use headphones when I ride anymore because it seems like to more I did, the more I had to have them when I rode. It morphed into a "need" for me. I do a lot of TT's and I wanted to prepare myself for long efforts, mentally, without the aid of entertainment - so I ditched the phones/music.

The safety argument is interesting. I feel like I am better on the bike with all of my senses working; however, when I raced, two of the better local racers were deaf. One of them, Paul Wood, was a USCF National Crit Champion (amateur of course). They did not seem to suffer for the lack of hearing when it came to safety on a ride.

I think that headphones can be annoying when someone has them on in a group ride. It can make it harder to communicate when the need arises, but it's pretty rare that anyone does this in my area. Most times riders around here are pretty common-sensical about using headphones.

[Chris]

Beyond music (the first 25 years or so), now I listen to podcasts. It's one of the only times that I can have just to myself for the extended period of time to get through an uninterrupted episode of This American Life or Dan Carlin's Hardcore History...

[MaraudingWalrus]

I'm a podcast or talk radio kind of guy on solo rides. I ride I fair amount by myself, and at night, which is obviously in some regards more dangerous than in group during day. That said, it's on a residential road with essentially no traffic, and the traffic that does show up has headlights that alert me to their presence long before the sounds of the vehicle would be heard. I have no qualms about having an earbud in one ear on a ride like that listening to something.

[Saint Vitus]

Here be that dogmatic crap that is most definitely not playful... I iz sad

Sorry bro but the playfulness stopped at audio (of which I have no issue). I'd like to be zen and 5h!t about it but I can't so there's the dogma pile for ya to navigate around...

[berserk87]

Sorry bro but the playfulness stopped at audio (of which I have no issue). I'd like to be zen and 5h!t about it but I can't so there's the dogma pile for ya to navigate around...

Agree with it or not, that's funny stuff: "...there's the dogma pile for ya to navigate around". Poetic.

[jmeloy]

left ear listens to traffic, right ear listens to music.


Ditto!

[lucasfarr92]

I'm a big fan of the Yurbuds. Stick one in my right ear, and it never comes out and I can hear traffic great.

[jimoots]

Have ridden with headphones in since the days of cassette Walkmans. At least 15 years.

A standard bud headphone doesn't affect my ability to know what's going on around me at sensible volumes. Which is the same as listening to music in a car.

If it affects you adversely then don't wear them. Pretty simple.

[campy man]

Headphones & earbuds, tried them and didn't like them. In LalaLand I like to hear buses, trucks and drivers approaching from behind.

While I enjoyed the boost in speed and willingness to take chances when wearing earbuds it didn't take long to discover I prefer to hear the revving engine of the knuckehead driver with a cig between their lips & cup of coffee between their legs ... speeding to make a right hand turn in front of me :no:

I might be the odd bird cause my handlebars are clear of any monitors, gps, ... I ride to simply ride. Don't need no stinking monitor to tell me I'm going too slow :)

Cool with anyone that wants to listen to music or watch video :confused: when riding ... as long as it doesn't make my ride more dangerous. That person in the bike lane with the headphones that's weaving side to side ... uncool!

[ceolwulf]

I almost never listen to music whilst riding but when I do I like the Bose MIE2 earbuds. They have a fairly unique open design that impedes outside sound almost not at all so you remain fully aware of that guy careening towards your rear wheel in blissful oblivion.

[Black Dog]

There are a lot of arguments that people make here, and in all the previous incarnations of this thread, that state the importance of being able to hear the cars and trucks coming up behind them.

I would really like to know how a person can distinguish, in any way, wether that vehicle is going to hit them or miss them by inches or pass them with 1 metre (3 feet) of space. Also, if they can tell the difference, do they have time to react in order to save themselves before they get hit?

[Likes2ridefar]

There are a lot of arguments that people make here and in all the previous incarnations of this thread that state the importance of being able to hear the cars and trucks coming up behind them.

I would really like to know how a person can distinguish, in any way, wether that vehicle is going to hit them or miss them by inches or pass them with 1 metre (3 feet) of space. Also, if they can tell the difference, do they have time to react in order to save themselves before they get hit?

was going to type the same thing...

personally id rather not hear the car hit me from behind.

and fortunately i don't get spooked by cars passing me and me not hearing them. that i understand...wouldnt want to be scared out there every time a car passes.

[Steve in SLO]

I would really like to know how a person can distinguish, in any way, wether that vehicle is going to hit them or miss them by inches or pass them with 1 metre (3 feet) of space. Also, if they can tell the difference, do they have time to react in order to save themselves before they get hit?

Mirror.

I ride with a right ear bud in, and a mirror inside my glasses. To me The mirror has become much more important safety device that having both ears. In fact, I feel really vulnerable now going out on a road ride without one.

Whoa, I just noticed this with my 4000th post…what a banal way to reach a milestone.

[campy man]

It's not the sound of a bus, truck or car passing that creates fear. When I'm riding it's the sound that stands out from the typical background noise. The sound of vehicles simply passing(background) is much different than the sound of that idiot stomping on the gas pedal and racing to the corner trying save 5 secs making a turn in front of you. The sound of an approaching bus passing inches from your handlebars is different than a bus passing +1ft.

I'm guessing most people on Paceline would prefer to ride on a road with minimal traffic but accept the unavoidable situation of sharing the road with auto traffic.

[campy man]

There are a lot of arguments that people make here, and in all the previous incarnations of this thread, that state the importance of being able to hear the cars and trucks coming up behind them.

I would really like to know how a person can distinguish, in any way, wether that vehicle is going to hit them or miss them by inches or pass them with 1 metre (3 feet) of space. Also, if they can tell the difference, do they have time to react in order to save themselves before they get hit?

Agree, there is no way to know if a vehicle is going to hit you. I think most would agree a crash can happen at anytime or place ... unpredictable. In my world, I can't afford to simply do nothing and not be proactive to minimizing the dangers of riding in traffic.

There is a freeway onramp that I pass on my regular ride. The sound of that car racing me to the onramp is much different than the sound of cars that might pass or allow me to cross that same onramp. The reaction to a car passing at a normal rate of speed is different to that idiot stomping on the gas pedal.

Can you say the choice to wearing earbuds is not much different than wearing a helmet ... the decision belongs to the individual rider.

[Black Dog]

Wouldn't your eyes be better sensory organs on the onramp than your ears?

Agree, there is no way to know if a vehicle is going to hit you. I think most would agree a crash can happen at anytime or place ... unpredictable. In my world, I can't afford to simply do nothing and not be proactive to minimizing the dangers of riding in traffic.

There is a freeway onramp that I pass on my regular ride. The sound of that car racing me to the onramp is much different than the sound of cars that might pass or allow me to cross that same onramp. The reaction to a car passing at a normal rate of speed is different to that idiot stomping on the gas pedal.

Can you say the choice to wearing earbuds is not much different than wearing a helmet ... the decision belongs to the individual rider.

[Black Dog]

It's not the sound of a bus, truck or car passing that creates fear. When I'm riding it's the sound that stands out from the typical background noise. The sound of vehicles simply passing(background) is much different than the sound of that idiot stomping on the gas pedal and racing to the corner trying save 5 secs making a turn in front of you. The sound of an approaching bus passing inches from your handlebars is different than a bus passing +1ft.

I'm guessing most people on Paceline would prefer to ride on a road with minimal traffic but accept the unavoidable situation of sharing the road with auto traffic.

Ok I am going to call this one out. There is no way that you can tell if the bus is going to pass you with inches or a foot. The distance from the bus to your ear will be virtually the same as the bus approaches regardless if it is a foot or an inch out from your line. Think of a triangle. It is only when the bus is on top of you that you would be able to tell and by then no reaction that you could make will effect the outcome. In this, and most cases on the road, seeing is believing and everything else is guesswork.

[campy man]

Wouldn't your eyes be better sensory organs on the onramp than your ears?

Are you suggesting it's better for a rider in traffic to turn their head around to see traffic approaching from behind instead of listening ... using 1 sensory organ instead of 2?

[Zoodles]

In the area of an on ramp you better believe I'm watching behind me more than the road in front- at least 60/40
You can ride in a straight line with your head half turned but you can't trust drivers to see you or not try to beat you to the ramp.

[Zoodles]

As far as earbuds go, I'm fine with the right ear in or the music low but my house is so loud I'm trying to escape the noise, not add to it.

[Likes2ridefar]

Are you suggesting it's better for a rider in traffic to turn their head around to see traffic approaching from behind instead of listening ... using 1 sensory organ instead of 2?

yes.

[campy man]

Ok I am going to call this one out. There is no way that you can tell if the bus is going to pass you with inches or a foot. The distance from the bus to your ear will be virtually the same as the bus approaches regardless if is a foot on an inch out from your line. Think of a triangle. It is only when the bus is on top of you that you would be able to tell and by then no reaction that you could make will effect the outcome. In this, and most cases on the road, seeing is believing and everything else is guesswork.

If we have never met, ridden together or had the opportunity to share the same roads how can you 'call this one out'? I luv Paceline because most of us share the same passion for bikes and cycling ... nothing more and nothing less. I think the need to 'call this one out' distracts from the simple discussion of headphones in traffic. I prefer to not wear earphones for reasons that make sense to me and feel no need to 'call out' others that enjoy wearing them ... live n let live :banana:

The beauty of Paceline and cycling in general is the ability of the participants to tolerate and accept the differences between members. The mutual respect shared between Paceline members because we all suffer on the road and learn something from each other is what attracts me to this website. Some enjoy the newest carbon fiber goodie and others roll old school. Nothing better than seeing somebody blow stereotypes out the water ... he's too big to be a good climber, too small to be a sprinter, ... the list goes on n on.

Paceline ... stay classy :)

[Black Dog]

If we have never met, ridden together or had the opportunity to share the same roads how can you 'call this one out'? I luv Paceline because most of us share the same passion for bikes and cycling ... nothing more and nothing less. I think the need to 'call this one out' distracts from the simple discussion of headphones in traffic. I prefer to not wear earphones for reasons that make sense to me and feel no need to 'call out' others that enjoy wearing them ... live n let live :banana:

The beauty of Paceline and cycling in general is the ability of the participants to tolerate and accept the differences between members. The mutual respect shared between Paceline members because we all suffer on the road and learn something from each other is what attracts me to this website. Some enjoy the newest carbon fiber goodie and others roll old school. Nothing better than seeing somebody blow stereotypes out the water ... he's too big to be a good climber, too small to be a sprinter, ... the list goes on n on.

Paceline ... stay classy :)

Wow woa. I really did not mean anything harsh or personal here and I unequvically apologized if I upset you and my words seemed to come from the mouth of an #%¥hole. I should not have been so curt. I have seen too many of these claims on the subject used as arguments against wearing ear buds stated as fact or sound theory when they are yet to be supported enough to be one or the other.

I was calling out the argument and not the person. No ad hominem here. I simply wanted to point out that there is, probably no way to tell the trajectory of a bus as it approaches a rider with sound alone. The physics of sound and the resolution of human hearing make this highly improbable. I also do not personally care if people wear buds or not. I ride with them or without, depending on a bunch of factors.

Beer is on me. No hard feelings.