Spoke Count?

[dk2ck]

I'm a lighter rider (~125 lbs) and have noticed a trend of going for lower spoke count wheels. I have been considering buying a pair of H+Son Archetypes laced to Ultegra hubs (http://www.velomine.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=86_235_357&products_id=3249&zenid=8j3rhji7akad3s2ro4t60795e4) to replace my Mavic Aksiums that came with my CAAD10. The Ultegra hubs only come in a 32 hole drilling, so there is only one option for the prebuilt Archetypes.

So I guess my question is... what are the benefits of lower spoke count, other than weight reduction? I am pretty partial to Shimano hubs (nice and quiet), but can't afford the Dura Ace hubs which have other drillings. The Velomine build is also really attractive because of the price.

[ultraman6970]

Less weight, the wheel is easier to move, at your weight you can use low count spokes wheels. But as usual it is just your call.

[ik2280]

I weigh 140 (which is not 125, but still light) - and for training, I use 18/24h hand-built wheels with HED rims and a PT rear hub. That said, I only chose such a low spoke count because those wheels were what my teammate was selling when I was looking for a power meter.

I've had wheels - and still do - with 32 spokes in the front and the back (Open Pro ceramic with Record hubs, Nemesis tubular rims with Record hubs), and while I might not use them for serious racing, they did not hold me back on fast group rides, or really anything else. There's a nice peace of mind that comes with tough wheels, and 32h wheels are pretty comfortable. And as I'm sure Old Potatoe will note soon, there's not that much of a weight penalty with nice rims and a few more spokes.

I think I'm going to buy one of those 32h Velomine wheelsets for my current cross build. 6800 hubs seem very well-priced.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm a lighter rider (~125 lbs) and have noticed a trend of going for lower spoke count wheels. I have been considering buying a pair of H+Son Archetypes laced to Ultegra hubs (http://www.velomine.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=86_235_357&products_id=3249&zenid=8j3rhji7akad3s2ro4t60795e4) to replace my Mavic Aksiums that came with my CAAD10. The Ultegra hubs only come in a 32 hole drilling, so there is only one option for the prebuilt Archetypes.

So I guess my question is... what are the benefits of lower spoke count, other than weight reduction? I am pretty partial to Shimano hubs (nice and quiet), but can't afford the Dura Ace hubs which have other drillings. The Velomine build is also really attractive because of the price.

Lighter by a little. 4 double butt spokes weigh 28 grams, thin spokes less. Often offset by a heavier rim to help reliability. And marketeers like 'em.

[ceolwulf]

I suspect the aero penalty would be greater than the weight penalty, but that wouldn't be much either.

[ergott]

You can drop over a pound from that build using White Industries hubs and Pacenti rims (20/24 spoke count). Of course the weight difference and cost have to be considered together, but durability for both sets will be enough to wear out the rims.

Those wheels are okay for what they are, but no better than the Askiums you already have. I wouldn't replace what you have with the build you linked unless they were a problem.

[Ken Robb]

I am wondering: Is there really an aero benefit from having fewer spokes? Assuming the use of round spokes might a wheel with fewer spokes create more turbulence and therefore more drag? Aren't disc wheels with their aero advantage just the ultimate in high spoke-count?

I defer to smart people with more understanding of aerodynamics than I to answer this question. :)

[beeatnik]

Those wheels are okay for what they are, but no better than the Askiums you already have. I wouldn't replace what you have with the build you linked unless they were a problem.

You mean for a guy who's 125, right?

[ergott]

I ride similar and fluctuate between 160 and 170 in season. Same spoke count for me on my personal Signature set.

[carpediemracing]

At your weight you can go really low. I used to be your weight and as much as 30-35 lbs lower (when I was 15), and I got away with stupid ridiculous wheel builds.

Being one for not overbuilt stuff I'd opt for lower spoke count wheel sets, like 18/24 or 20/24. Now that I want to rebuild an 18H front wheel I realize my options are way more limited than if I had a 20H front wheel. Just for that reason I'd recommend a 20H front. For the rear 24H is a nice compromise between too many spokes and durability. I bet you could get a 20H set up to work well but I don't know, I haven't looked at many rear hubs.

Low spoke count rims mean either a carbon rim or a very strong (and therefore relatively heavy) aluminum one.

For example the HEDs that I have are 18/24 and I've used them while weighing 155-185 lbs. I got them in 2010. I actually have two sets of alum HEDs (Jets and Bastognes, both 18/24) and 2.5 sets of carbon HEDs (all 18/24). They're plenty strong and when I race I basically ignore potholes and such, so I'm pretty hard on them.

Prior to the HEDs, starting in 2005, I used Reynolds DV46 (carbon) clinchers and tubulars, 16/20H, and I was FAT, like 180 at my lightest and about 210 in the winter. The rims are strong enough that the spokes are there just to place the hub. I broke a spoke each in the front tubular and the rear clincher but never had a problem with structural integrity, even with the broken spoke. In fact, after gingerly testing the 15 spoke front wheel (spoke broke in a race) I rode the rest of the race and contested and placed in the sprint (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lgRKWEdG18). I didn't ride it again until I rebuilt the wheel but it was good that day (and probably more). In that race I was probably 180, 185. I broke a rear spoke at the beginning of a 2.5 hour hilly group ride and did the ride anyway. I rebuilt that as well. Both wheel sets are still in use, under teammates (170-ish and 180-ish).

Anyway at your weight you can do whatever. If I were you I'd go with lower spoke counts, just because you can, and I'd get aero spokes as well. Spend a few extra bucks while you're building because it'll be a pain to change out anything later.

[FlashUNC]

The 32 spoke wheels will work for you just fine. But as others have mentioned, its probably a bit overkill.

[John H.]

You are light, go for a wheel like Ergott suggests.
I am light, but not as light as you (I am around 140, + or - a pound).
Ergott built me a set of 20-28 that are bombproof. I use them on my cross bike.
With a wheel like this you will damage the rim before you knock it out of true.
Weight will be lower than the wheels that you describe. I recall my set as being 1430 grams-

Forgot to add. Make sure that you have someone who knows how to build such wheels (like Ergott) build them.
In my experience you do not want any old wheelbuilder to string together a set of low spoke count wheels.
It is worth every penny.

[Bob Ross]

Aren't disc wheels with their aero advantage just the ultimate in high spoke-count?

...or are they the ultimate in low spoke-count?

[Ken Robb]

...or are they the ultimate in low spoke-count?

I think the ultimate LOW spoke count happens when your rear derailer gets twisted inward. :)

[Louis]

How about the no-spoke wheel?

http://limewedge.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/bradford-waugh1.jpg

[Tony]

At your weight you can go really low.

Being one for not overbuilt stuff I'd opt for lower spoke count wheel sets, like 18/24 or 20/24. Now that I want to rebuild an 18H front wheel I realize my options are way more limited than if I had a 20H front wheel. Just for that reason I'd recommend a 20H front. For the rear 24H is a nice compromise between too many spokes and durability. I bet you could get a 20H set up to work well but I don't know, I haven't looked at many rear hubs.


Anyway at your weight you can do whatever. If I were you I'd go with lower spoke counts, just because you can, and I'd get aero spokes as well. Spend a few extra bucks while you're building because it'll be a pain to change out anything later.

Good advice.

BTW, love your videos!

[dk2ck]

Thanks a lot for the advice, everyone. It's great having all of this info in one place! Time to keep looking into my options.