Toe rub...

[a4racer]

So, bought my wife a CX bike. 52cm, it fits her quite well.

Only issue is this: and it is one I've never had to deal with--she has some toe rub when she turns more than a few degrees. Not a huge deal, annoying perhaps, but I don't want to have any barriers to her getting out and enjoying the bike.

I'm told that smallish CX bikes just have this as a common problem, but I'm hopeful there may be something I can do to minimize this problem--perhaps SPDs with cleats slightly further forward on the shoe--perhaps running a road-ish tire on the bike (she isn't riding mud, just paved and hard pack paths).

Any other suggestions? I was close to trading the bike in for a road bike in a same size--is it just the tire issue that makes CX bikes rub more than road bikes?

Well, thanks for your input!!

:banana:

[bcgav]

Toe overlap is pretty common with CX bikes. Only really an issue turning the bike at very low speeds.

[Louis]

is it just the tire issue that makes CX bikes rub more than road bikes?

I'm no frame designer, but from what I've heard TCO (toe clip overlap) is a relatively common problem for small frames, road or cross. And since women tend to ride smaller bikes it's often an issue for them. A custom design can work around that, but of course it's more expensive.

[rnhood]

While overlap has been an issue on small road bikes, I would expect a CX bike to provide more. The wheelbase is typically longer and the front-center should be too. Its the small road bikes that can pose a problem since their WB and FC are squeezed, so to speak. But I am not an expert by any means.

Nevertheless, I would not want a bike with overlap issues. Very unnerving to make a turn only to have the rear of the front tire hit your foot. Its not for me. I would rather buy a bike one size bigger and select different components to effect my fit. Of course I would first be sure the one size larger bike has a longer front-center (it should). Another option is to look at other CX bikes. There are many different makes and the geometry differs somewhat. Some typically have long front centers to avoid this problem.

[bjf]

I have a Fierte 54S that has considerable toe overlap. I checked with Sheldon Brown (online, of course, not through a medium), who says it's common with short frames and something you really can get used to. After a month or so on this bike I agree. At high speed you don't turn the front wheel that much, and at low speed you can just be careful. I agree with the comment that it's more common for women, because we tend to need bikes with shorter tts. I wouldn't try to change your wife's bike for something longer.

[Dead Man]

I have TCO on my newest frame. I hadn't experienced it before, and I hated it... but I've basically gotten used to it and deal with it. I'm so happy with the fit otherwise that I just have to (deal with it).

[Bruce K]

Remember too that most cx tires are larger diameter than road and add to the issue.

As others have said fairly common and not a huge issue for a CX bike.

BK

[AngryScientist]

i ride sized 50 frames, and all have some overlap. never had an issue with it though, i know it exists and subconsciously avoid situations that cause a problem. nothing to worry about IMO.

[ultraman6970]

Small frame for sure, she needs to learn synchronize the position of the pedal/shoe with the front wheel, not hard to do, but it is what it is.

[dustyrider]

Can you shorten crank arms comfortably?
And or 650b?

[pinkshogun]

i had to rake out a steel touring fork once. you loose a few mm's of tire clearance but the extra 10mm that the tire was away from my foot was worth it

[redir]

Toe overlap is pretty common with CX bikes.


While overlap has been an issue on small road bikes, I would expect a CX bike to provide more. The wheelbase is typically longer and the front-center should be too.


That was my thoughts as well, CX bikes have longer wheelbase but the tires are fatter so I suppose maybe that cancels it out on smaller frames. My CX bike has plenty of clearance but my road bike haas a bit of overlap. It's a trade off for having a tight wheel base and generally not an issue. If it's just barely an overlap then shorter cranks could help.

[MePaleo]

A few years back, my girlfriend bought a 50cm Jamis Quest that had some considerable toe overlap. It was her first go at clipless pedals and a road bike, so our parking lot lesson had some panicked moments when her toe would get caught up on the inside of the wheel on a slow turn. Adjusting the cleats didn't help, so we decided to shorten up the cranks. She's not big power generator, so taking an inch off of the crank arm length wasn't noticeable. Bikesmith (http://bikesmithdesign.com/Short_Cranks/shorten.html) did the work. Inexpensive solution and haven't had any problems since.

[8aaron8]

Smaller frames generally have that problem. Shorter cranks and 650 wheels are a good solution. I wouldn't recommend moving the cleats forward on the shoe as that can lead to foot discomfort and possibly over/underworked muscle groups.

[Dead Man]

A few years back, my girlfriend bought a 50cm Jamis Quest that had some considerable toe overlap. It was her first go at clipless pedals and a road bike, so our parking lot lesson had some panicked moments when her toe would get caught up on the inside of the wheel on a slow turn. Adjusting the cleats didn't help, so we decided to shorten up the cranks. She's not big power generator, so taking an inch off of the crank arm length wasn't noticeable. Bikesmith (http://bikesmithdesign.com/Short_Cranks/shorten.html) did the work. Inexpensive solution and haven't had any problems since.

An inch??

[tigoat]

Most smaller frames are expected to have a toe overlap problem but they shouldn’t be if designed properly. The problem is that most builders don’t know how to design a smaller frame, as most of them have too relax seat tube angle, too steep head angle, not enough fork offset, incorrect crank length, etc.. With a small frame that has at least 520mm of effective top tube length, it can be designed and configured to have no toe overlap issue whatsoever believe it or not while not compromising performance.

[buldogge]

Sure…Given that 170mm cranks are the common "small size" and 1"=25.4mm…that's about 145mm which is close to the crank arm length on a lot of kid's road bikes, by coincidence.

-Mark in St. Louis

An inch??

[bobswire]

Actually most road frames will have a toe/wheel overlap as well as smaller cx frames. Most of us don't realize it or seldom have to turn the bars while riding slowly to notice. Sit on your bike while leaning against a wall while having your cranks positioned at 3 0'clock then turn your bars to see how much clearance between the wheel and shoes. Your body/mind compensates instinctively to avoid those embarrassing prat falls.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

I ride 50cm bikes, and every single one (including my custom) has toe overlap. Yes, a builder can design the bike to eliminate it, but doing so generally involves some major compromises elsewhere, and it is rarely a worthy tradeoff. I notice it much more on my CX bike, where tight/slow turns mean a lot more turning of the front wheel. It's a PITA, but I've never found a solution beyond learning to expect it. I guess I could get a 650C wheeled bike.

[Raffy]

i ride sized 50 frames, and all have some overlap. never had an issue with it though, i know it exists and subconsciously avoid situations that cause a problem. nothing to worry about IMO.

Yep same here and I ride smaller frames than AS. I was initially worried about it but I found that worry to be unfounded. I think I have rubbed my toe on my front wheel just once in the past year or more.

[nooneline]

Every single bike I've ever ridden has had toe overlap. I ride 48 to 53cm bikes. Road, cyclocross, track, and commuter.

It's a common issue on bikes, and it's rarely a problem - only really when I'm trying to turn very, very tightly, like doing a 180 in my alley.

Any attempt to "fix" it is probably going to introduce more substantially noticeable issues - like doing crazy things with cleat placement or crank length.

[MePaleo]

An inch??

effectively, the center of the pedal mounting hole only moved about 1/2 inch from the original. But, the length of the crank ends up about an inch shorter when he cuts off the top. I think he drills/ taps the new hole, then cuts off the top of the crank arm and rounds off the corners. Or did you mean that you wanted the conversion in metric?

[Louis]

Something just occurred to me - Is a "toe rub" like a foot massage?

Pulp Fiction foot massage scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCO-SBPTF5E

(warning: has some strong language)

[malcolm]

I've had it on several bikes and I don't ride small frames well 55ish, so small for some I guess. One was a Rivendell romulus that was I think a 57. I've never found it to be a problem.

[rkhatibi]

I recently built up a 54cm Trek Crockett which has a steeper seat tube, but more relaxed fork/head tube specifically to address Katie Compton's toe overlap issues (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/pro-bike-katie-comptons-trek-crockett-disc) on her 52cm w/175mm cranks. It definitely succeeds in removing toe overlap for me and the bike still feels nimble though I can only compare it to my long in the tooth '09 Fuji Cross Comp.

[Muffin Man]

I have mad overlap with my bonts, 172.5 cranks, and 54cm Caad10. Almost ruined a fenderp at low speeds once.

[a4racer]

I recently built up a 54cm Trek Crockett which has a steeper seat tube, but more relaxed fork/head tube specifically to address Katie Compton's toe overlap issues (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/pro-bike-katie-comptons-trek-crockett-disc) on her 52cm w/175mm cranks. It definitely succeeds in removing toe overlap for me and the bike still feels nimble though I can only compare it to my long in the tooth '09 Fuji Cross Comp.

My wife's bike is a 52cm Crockett...sounds like toe overlap shouldn't be an issue.

It could be because she's riding with running shoes on flats--even putting her on SPDs with smaller profile cycling shoes might have an effect, or it may keep her foot in the proper position, as opposed to runners on flats which might migrate forwards?

I'll try that, then I'll consider 650b wheels, and/or shorter cranks (goes to basement, checks crank length)...

[aramis]

Every road bike I've ever ridden (usually 56-58cm) has had toe overlap. It's really not a big deal. If you are making a sharp and slow turn, don't have a pedal forward.

[rkhatibi]

My wife's bike is a 52cm Crockett...sounds like toe overlap shouldn't be an issue.

It could be because she's riding with running shoes on flats--even putting her on SPDs with smaller profile cycling shoes might have an effect, or it may keep her foot in the proper position, as opposed to runners on flats which might migrate forwards?

I'll try that, then I'll consider 650b wheels, and/or shorter cranks (goes to basement, checks crank length)...

I'm commuting with the same setup (flats and street shoes), but my foot tends to slide back unless I think about it. It's possible the tread on the side of the tire is making it more noticeable than past bikes. Maybe switching over to road 28-32c tires would help until avoiding overlap because more natural.