Agree or disagree: Sagan is the biggest talent in cycling right now

[MattTuck]

To me, Sep Vanmarcke is a much more interesting classics rider. And for the hilly stuff, Michal Kwiatkowski...

Matti Breschel believes that Peter Sagan can inspire Tinkoff-Saxo to ride at another level in the 2015 Spring Classics. Sagan has joined the Russian registered team after several years at Cannondale and will spearhead the team from January onwards. The most significant signing of the season joins a team that has lacked an out-and-out Classics star since Fabian Cancellara.

“I’m really looking forward to riding with him and I see him coming to the team as something that’s really positive for the squad,” Breschel told Cyclingnews at the team’s training camp in Gran Canaria.

“He’s the biggest talent in cycling right now and he’s a superstar. That tells you everything you need to know and he’s the captain, and we all want him to win a lot of races. Link to Article (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/breschel-peter-sagan-is-the-biggest-talent-in-cycling)

[dekindy]

Disagree.

[Cicli]

Lance used to be.

[efaust_o]

Another vote for the Pole...

[Fishbike]

Perhaps the most well-rounded.

[shovelhd]

He's the biggest something that's for sure.

[1centaur]

We should probably settle on "he's a really big talent with a rare combination of strengths." A few bad days and anyone mentioned can fail to look like "the biggest." If the peloton marks anybody as closely as they learned to mark Sagan the marked would start to look more ordinary. It takes a great talent on a great day to ride away from a peloton dedicated to not letting him exercise that talent. Sagan and MK have benefitted greatly from the peloton learning what marking them really means. There's a reason Valverde is 3rd and 4th a lot.

[rain dogs]

I agree. Provided by "biggest talent" we're talking most versatile/skilled/wellrounded.

He's a protagonist in the widest range of races. He can win a cobbled classic. He can win sprints. He's versatile enough to win the Green jersey and be a major player in the GT podium prizes (but not GC podium). He's an amazing descender and bike handler. He can get over short punchy climbs and could win a lesser hilly classic. He can TT pretty well. He could win the right week long stage race with mountains.

The only other guys I can think of that could maybe be argued vs him on versatility would be Kwiatkowski and Valverde.

However, Kwiatkowski hasn't proved himself in the GT's quite enough to be given that distinction

and Valverde hasn't got enough (or really any) of a "cobbled" or "flat classics" palmares to be argued on versatility over Sagan IMHO. Although it was fun to watch him try twice this year.

I think Riis will reveal the real Peter Sagan, for better or for worse.

Edit: Consider this. Valverde (34yo) has 57 career pro wins, Kwiatkowski (24yo) - 9, Sagan (24yo) - 61!

[FlashUNC]

Disagree.

[guido]

Disagree.

[rain dogs]

Since I'm the only one who agrees out of what, 10 people, I obviously am out to lunch. So if not Sagan, then who? and why? It's easy to type: disagree

[Raffy]

Agree. I would be interesting though to see him actually be the GC guy for a week long race. MK might be a better bet in such races.


I agree. Provided by "biggest talent" we're talking most versatile/skilled/wellrounded.

He's a protagonist in the widest range of races. He can win a cobbled classic. He can win sprints. He's versatile enough to win the Green jersey and be a major player in the GT podium prizes (but not GC podium). He's an amazing descender and bike handler. He can get over short punchy climbs and could win a lesser hilly classic. He can TT pretty well. He could win the right week long stage race with mountains.

The only other guys I can think of that could maybe be argued vs him on versatility would be Kwiatkowski and Valverde.

However, Kwiatkowski hasn't proved himself in the GT's quite enough to be given that distinction

and Valverde hasn't got enough (or really any) of a "cobbled" or "flat classics" palmares to be argued on versatility over Sagan IMHO. Although it was fun to watch him try twice this year.

I think Riis will reveal the real Peter Sagan, for better or for worse.

Edit: Consider this. Valverde (34yo) has 57 career pro wins, Kwiatkowski (24yo) - 9, Sagan (24yo) - 61!

[zerocool5468]

disagree. i'd phrase it something more like biggest untapped/fully realized potential in cycling.

[MattTuck]

This is a pretty well argued position. I am not a particular fan of some of his juvenile off bike decisions in the past, and I shouldn't let that influence my feelings about him as a racer.

The issue though, as I see it, is that he is more hype than reality in the spring classics. That could change with this new team, and I wouldn't be surprised if that happened based on his raw talent.

A lot of those wins are sprint finishes in stage races. To my memory he only has a few spring wins. Which is what the article suggests was the motivation for Tinkoff-Saxo to bring him on. They're not going to be very interested in him picking up stages in France next summer with Alberto going for the GC.

I agree. Provided by "biggest talent" we're talking most versatile/skilled/wellrounded.

He's a protagonist in the widest range of races. He can win a cobbled classic. He can win sprints. He's versatile enough to win the Green jersey and be a major player in the GT podium prizes (but not GC podium). He's an amazing descender and bike handler. He can get over short punchy climbs and could win a lesser hilly classic. He can TT pretty well. He could win the right week long stage race with mountains.

The only other guys I can think of that could maybe be argued vs him on versatility would be Kwiatkowski and Valverde.

However, Kwiatkowski hasn't proved himself in the GT's quite enough to be given that distinction

and Valverde hasn't got enough (or really any) of a "cobbled" or "flat classics" palmares to be argued on versatility over Sagan IMHO. Although it was fun to watch him try twice this year.

I think Riis will reveal the real Peter Sagan, for better or for worse.

Edit: Consider this. Valverde (34yo) has 57 career pro wins, Kwiatkowski (24yo) - 9, Sagan (24yo) - 61!

[Louis]

Since we're throwing names out there, is the next French rider to win the TDF currently racing at the pro level? If so, who is it? If not, how much longer will we have to wait?

[pbarry]

disagree. i'd phrase it something more like biggest untapped/fully realized potential in cycling.

That would be Taylor Phinney. JMO

[Clancy]

disagree. i'd phrase it something more like biggest untapped/fully realized potential in cycling.

I agree with the potential. But untapped? With his number of wins? Two green jerseys, untapped? He has already had a career that would define any pro cyclist for a lifetime.

With Tinkoff he may go to the next level. And if he does, he may be the dominant force in cycling for the next 3-5 years.

What we can all probably agree on.... he's The most skilled cyclist in the pro peleton. Everyone see the video of him parking his roadbike on top of his SUV? By riding it?

I don't much care for his immature cocky actions, I'm sure he will mature like Cavindish has. But boy can he ride a bicycle.

[gavingould]

at the moment i'll go with Pauline Ferrand-Prévot.

current French national champ in road, TT, cyclocross, and MTB.
current road World Champ.

yesterday at the Hasselt CX race she was riding barriers - you really do not see the women do that. and she's only 22.

[CunegoFan]

The issue though, as I see it, is that he is more hype than reality in the spring classics.

Say what? He has podium finishes in everything from the Tour of Flanders to Strade Bianche to Amstel Gold to Gent–Wevelgem to Milan-San Remo.

[cnighbor1]

Perhaps the most well-rounded.
Will a pure well rounded racer win without being able to climb with the best?
Sagan so far is not a great climber

[tylerbick]

Get him on the track and he could very well be the next Merckx... And I worship Merckx.

[choke]

at the moment i'll go with Pauline Ferrand-Prévot.

current French national champ in road, TT, cyclocross, and MTB.
current road World Champ. Bingo.

[CunegoFan]

at the moment i'll go with Pauline Ferrand-Prévot.

current French national champ in road, TT, cyclocross, and MTB.
current road World Champ.

yesterday at the Hasselt CX race she was riding barriers - you really do not see the women do that. and she's only 22.

The depth of competition in women's cycling is thin. Really thin.

[oldpotatoe]

To me, Sep Vanmarcke is a much more interesting classics rider. And for the hilly stuff, Michal Kwiatkowski...

Link to Article (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/breschel-peter-sagan-is-the-biggest-talent-in-cycling)

Define 'biggest talent'? I disagree by any metric except ability to be 'noticed' by the media.

[oldpotatoe]

That would be Taylor Phinney. JMO

Agree..!!!!!He's just quiet, unlike sagan.

[ntb1001]

I think Sagan could be transformed into a GC contender with the right team and development. .maybe Riis has bigger plans for him??
The talent and skill level he has is incredible.

[firerescuefin]

Agree.

Others have noted it...If you call his talent unrealized, you haven't read his palmares.

[Ti Designs]

X

[macaroon]

Agree (I think). How many other riders would do this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0phjIVH1lk

[gavingould]

The depth of competition in women's cycling is thin. Really thin.
The veil of sexism in your post is thin. Really thin.

[Rada]

I think Sagan could be transformed into a GC contender with the right team and development. .maybe Riis has bigger plans for him??
The talent and skill level he has is incredible.

GC contender is a pipe dream. He has the talent to podium occasionally, but he'll never win a Monument either.

[misterha]

Can Wiggins be consider a true all-rounder. TdF win, TT world champ, Track champ, somehow won a bunch sprint in Tour of Romandie 2012, and I bet he will win a spring classic this year or podium at the very least.

[gavingould]

Sagan's got raw physical talent, but on the tactics side (and off the bike) he's got a lot to learn. Granted, he never had all that much help from his team in one-day races the last couple years.

They don't need to go full-on OPQS, but it would certainly help him to have a solid foil in their classics squad.

[CunegoFan]

The veil of sexism in your post is thin. Really thin.

Your determination to assert political correctness when it is at odds with reality is just adorable.

[gavingould]

Your determination to assert political correctness when it is at odds with reality is just adorable.
yawn.
whether or not i'm adorable isn't in question here.

[choke]

The depth of competition in women's cycling is thin. Really thin.Really? In 8 of the 9 races (leaving out the Open de Suede Vargarda TTT) that constituted the 2014 Women's Road World Cup there were 8 different winners and the 24 podium spots were occupied by 17 different women. He has the talent to podium occasionally, but he'll never win a Monument either.I'd be amazed if he doesn't.

[MattTuck]

Say what? He has podium finishes in everything from the Tour of Flanders to Strade Bianche to Amstel Gold to Gent–Wevelgem to Milan-San Remo.

Podium finishes are good, but there is no substitute for winning 1st place finishes in the top races. We're not talking about whether the guy has talent, which he clearly does, but whether he is the biggest talent... and I'm still waiting for more concrete results (read victories) in the biggest one day races.

Sagan will be 25 in January. Boonen had won Flanders twice and Roubaix once by his 25th birthday.

[slidey]

The sooner we have the drug concoctions spelled out, the easier the laboratory comparisons become.

[oldpotatoe]

Podium finishes are good, but there is no substitute for winning 1st place finishes in the top races. We're not talking about whether the guy has talent, which he clearly does, but whether he is the biggest talent... and I'm still waiting for more concrete results (read victories) in the biggest one day races.

Sagan will be 25 in January. Boonen had won Flanders twice and Roubaix once by his 25th birthday.

We'll see how he does under the thumb of Riis and Oleg. Without the press, I think you hear little of him in 2015. But we'll see.

[CunegoFan]

yawn.
whether or not i'm adorable isn't in question here.

Yeah. Disconnection with reality is.

There are 550+ men in the World Tour. Average salary is more than 250K euro. Top salaries go over 4M euro. There is cutthroat competition for a lot of money. The level of competition is broad and deep.

By contrast the top women have an average salary of 20K euro. Take out the salaries of a very small handful of the top women and the average is barely above 10K. There is simply not the number of competitors nor the depth of competition when compared to men's cycling, and the prize is poverty wages.

[bruin11]

Agree (I think). How many other riders would do this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0phjIVH1lk

You see that kind of stuff all the time in pro races. Zdenek Stybar did one in the Eneco Tour where he hopped up on a curb on the left to make a high speed right turn and he went on to win the stage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LJLOJhtNko

[russ46]

Nairo Quintana

[Gfi3]

http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r616/GFI3/Stuff/keep-calm-and-peter-sagan_zps66e82775.png (http://s1174.photobucket.com/user/GFI3/media/Stuff/keep-calm-and-peter-sagan_zps66e82775.png.html)

[gavingould]

I want to keep telling you that men are superior to women because money

i tried to brush off your stubbornness with a joke, but you really want to keep going. what is your point? if you disagree with me about Pauline Ferrand-Prevot being talented, that's fine.

it would seem that you're dismissive on the basis that the women's fields are weak and poorly paid. they're definitely poorly paid, but the depth is debatable. let's not get into the chicken-and-egg about why that's the case.

i say she's talented. you say the field is thin and they don't make any money...

that doesn't make me wrong.

[fiamme red]

i tried to brush off your stubbornness with a joke, but you really want to keep going. what is your point? if you disagree with me about Pauline Ferrand-Prevot being talented, that's fine.

it would seem that you're dismissive on the basis that the women's fields are weak and poorly paid. they're definitely poorly paid, but the depth is debatable. let's not get into the chicken-and-egg about why that's the case.

i say she's talented. you say the field is thin and they don't make any money...

that doesn't make me wrong.You implied that she's the biggest talent in cycling right now (which is what this thread is about). That's like saying that the most talented player in the WNBA is the most talented basketball player in the world right now.

[rain dogs]

i tried to brush off your stubbornness with a joke, but you really want to keep going. what is your point? if you disagree with me about Pauline Ferrand-Prevot being talented, that's fine.

that doesn't make me wrong.

I'm not taking sides here, but I think the statement made by Matti Breschel, about Sagan being the "biggest talent" was (and for the sake of this conversation would be aided by being) restricted to the Men's current Pro peloton.

(Although, I do agree that PFP is a very talented professional cyclist).

Additionally, for all of us, if we're interested in discussing this realistically the definition of talent is broadly: A natural aptitude or skill.

Therefore, the "biggest talent", (read 'most talented, not fattest or tallest) would be: the deepest, broadest or most diverse natural aptitude or skillsets.

Again, why I would agree that Sagan is the most complete rider currently racing today... as in, he possesses the most skills and can execute all of them at the highest level of anyone I can think of, although he may not be the most skilled at any one single skill (ie. TT'ing)

[gavingould]

...

[R3awak3n]

he might not be the most talented, I really do not follow pro cycling all that much but he is one of the most fun to watch guys for sure.

[fiamme red]

maybe one could be, i don't follow basketball.It's possible, but men's basketball or cycling, with so much more money involved than the corresponding women's sport, is going to have a much deeper talent pool.

[CunegoFan]

i tried to brush off your stubbornness with a joke, but you really want to keep going. what is your point? if you disagree with me about Pauline Ferrand-Prevot being talented, that's fine.

it would seem that you're dismissive on the basis that the women's fields are weak and poorly paid. they're definitely poorly paid, but the depth is debatable. let's not get into the chicken-and-egg about why that's the case.

i say she's talented. you say the field is thin and they don't make any money...

that doesn't make me wrong.

You did not bush it off with a joke. You tried to brush off my fact based opinion with an insult about sexism. The depth is not debatable. It simply is not there compared to men's cycling. The cause is irrelevant to the point that there is not enough quality competition and competitors to base an opinion about the level of talent. A big fish in a small pond says nothing about the fish being the biggest fish in the ocean.

That they don't make much money goes directly to the point that there is not the kind of incentive to pursue a pro career that exists on the men's side. It is that incentive that creates the men's depth of competition.

[gavingould]

ok, women's cycling (and women in sport in general) is irrelevant. they really should stop trying, it'd be impossible for them to be the biggest talent, not to mention they won't make any money. i'm convinced! :banana:

talent being, as rain dogs and most dictionaries say, a natural aptitude or skill - i still think she could be in the running. granted, i've not seen video of her doing trials stuff or riding up onto a car, but she ranks quite high in natural aptitude and skill, broad and diverse, as pertains to riding a racing bicycle.

among men, sure, Sagan's probably the most rounded. Stybar is also a brilliant bike handler and strong, don't know how far he can go yet. i may be biased toward cyclocrossers.

anyway, i was just really impressed by Pauline's bunnyhop skills after watching both Lars Van der Haar and Corne van Kessel crash spectacularly trying to do the same thing.