Which big name should my local shop carry? [Archive]

ceolwulf

12-02-2014, 06:46 PM

Cicli

12-02-2014, 06:48 PM

nighthawk

12-02-2014, 06:51 PM

Soma or Surly?

sevencyclist

12-02-2014, 06:55 PM

Bianchi and Focus.

carlineng

12-02-2014, 06:57 PM

Avoid Specialized, as they like to have tons of control over their dealers. QBP brands are good for entry level -- Surly, All-City, Salsa.

Others I can think of... Jamis, Kona, Ridley.

Cicli

12-02-2014, 07:08 PM

Agreed. Specialized sucks.

noonan1970

12-02-2014, 07:11 PM

I do like specialized shoes etc... though

rePhil

12-02-2014, 07:14 PM

Jamis

1X10

12-02-2014, 07:41 PM

If you are in Winter-peg then anyone with a solid fat bike in their line up is a must:)

I think Kona always does well in Canada, though it may contradict the Rocky line??

Your area just had the CNDN cross nationals so probably some good interest...

AngryScientist

12-02-2014, 07:45 PM

uhhh, you're in canada?

http://www.racycles.com/assets/productimages/large/Argon_18_Gallium_2011_Frameset.jpg

cmbicycles

12-02-2014, 07:59 PM

Entry level... Raleigh?

1centaur

12-02-2014, 08:01 PM

The very small shop may make a difference, since bigger brands can have bigger minimums. Ridley would be an obvious choice for 'cross cred, but who knows if they want a minimum seasonal buy. Scott may cannibalize Jamis. And yes Argon is an obvious choice.

93legendti

12-02-2014, 08:09 PM

Fuji, Diamondback, Cervelo, Guru, Salsa, Surly, Everti?

Does the owner read trade magazines? Seems odd that an owner would seek outside help. He should sell what he believes in...

Miles

12-02-2014, 08:09 PM

uhhh, you're in canada?

http://www.racycles.com/assets/productimages/large/Argon_18_Gallium_2011_Frameset.jpg

If Cannondale doesn't have the variety he is looking for, argon18 does? How about Norco or gt/cannondale. Gt/cannondale through the parent could give a good variety.

Chris

12-02-2014, 08:15 PM

Fuji. Full line and the best margins out there.

bjf

12-02-2014, 08:20 PM

For entry level, Marin is very successful around here (St. Louis), though one also can find the big three.

ceolwulf

12-02-2014, 08:21 PM

Seems odd that an owner would seek outside help.

He wasn't, just to be clear. He just told me he wanted a major company line and mentioned Spec and I thought oy vey ... I mean the product is good, but.

Thanks for all the input so far!

killerrabbit

12-02-2014, 08:26 PM

Felt or Fuji would be good choices.

charliedid

12-02-2014, 08:36 PM

What about Opus (http://opusbike.com/en/)?

AustinHorse

12-02-2014, 08:56 PM

Big name?

Clearly they need to carry the Kona Humuhumu-Nukunuku-Apu'A

93legendti

12-02-2014, 09:05 PM

Here's a sampling of Fuji's cross bikes:

http://www.performancebike.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchDisplay?searchTerm=Fuji+cross&catalogId=10551&langId=-1&storeId=10052&ddkey=http:PBSearchTermAssociationsCmd

ceolwulf

12-02-2014, 09:16 PM

Big name?

Clearly they need to carry the Kona Humuhumu-Nukunuku-Apu'A

best answer, lol

adavco

12-02-2014, 11:24 PM

I'd agree with all the Fuji mentions. They have a really broad product line and they have decent prices for quality stuff.

54ny77

12-02-2014, 11:34 PM

Herbalife.

oldpotatoe

12-03-2014, 06:05 AM

Very small shop ... currently mainly deal in Rocky Mountain and Scott.

Can't get Trek or Giant, other dealers too close. Cannondale doesn't have the wide variety he's looking for. He's looking at Specialized ... surely there are options other than that? I've got him interested in Kona a bit, not really the same thing though. Wish I could sell him on BMC but they have no real entry-level stuff at all.

He wants a highly diverse lineup, and a strong selection of entry-level product, and a good choice of cyclocross bikes as that seems to be really taking off here.

Honestly not sure why he wants this. Supply issues maybe.

Does he really want to go toe to toe with the big boys close? Wouldn't he want to specialize(no pun intended) and better define his market to what those guys aren't?? Makes no sense to me to see big boys be fairly successful and think small operations can be successful too. Economy of scale, manufacturer's deals and financing, etc.

Specialized, if like around here, will want a BIG presence and if he doesn't do well, they will open another place, even close. Not too long ago there were 5 Spec-ed dealers here in the republic. 5...Now there are 3.

jr59

12-03-2014, 06:26 AM

Does he really want to go toe to toe with the big boys close? Wouldn't he want to specialize(no pun intended) and better define his market to what those guys aren't?? Makes no sense to me to see big boys be fairly successful and think small operations can be successful too. Economy of scale, manufacturer's deals and financing, etc.

Specialized, if like around here, will want a BIG presence and if he doesn't do well, they will open another place, even close. Not too long ago there were 5 Spec-ed dealers here in the republic. 5...Now there are 3.

I would try to understand my market first, and then decide. Specialized will want 90% of the sales floor and the buy in and yearly orders are pretty big. Or so I am told. I'm pretty sure of the 90% of the floor as I have overheard the rep getting on a dealer before about this.

I'm not in the bike buss, but I have owned a few small buss before and I can for sure tell you that cash flow and how you handle that will quickly become an issue if not well handled. I don't know how a smaller single shop could/would do it with Spec telling you what you are going to buy.

I would define my market, and sharpen my point towards that market. In other words, figure out what is lacking and go after that. Be it tri, fat bike, or fitting and of course service. You could almost use Old Spud's game plan if you will.....errrr..something like that. I wouldn't think telling everyone Sram is crap ( even though it is) would work to well....:p

Best of luck with a big line, unless you have a big store/or unlimited funds.

Mikej

12-03-2014, 06:34 AM

It wont matter, any shop owner who seeks sales advice from THE PACELINE will be closing shop in the next off season.

biker72

12-03-2014, 06:40 AM

Focus is a brand with great margins that makes a good product.
Best German designed bike built in Taiwan... :)

Climb01742

12-03-2014, 06:45 AM

One more vote for Felt.

dsimon

12-03-2014, 06:49 AM

pinarello, colnago,parlee, dimondback:eek:

ntb1001

12-03-2014, 07:00 AM

Cervelo does very well around here. It's a major brand as well.

Ralph

12-03-2014, 07:14 AM

Why any of them? Concentrate on repairs, small stuff, some custom frames, and have as little money as possible in inventory. As little floor planning costs as possible. Avoid business debt....which he can't get much of anyway....unless he personally guarantees it. He can't compete with big boys. Is the object to be successful....or look big and successful?

MaraudingWalrus

12-03-2014, 08:44 AM

We're kind of in the same boat. We're taking a serious look at Raleigh. They have some great bikes at crazy good pricing - himod carbon road bike with 105,power tap and joule head unit at 3300usd retail.

The mountain lineup needs work, but the same company owns. Both Raleigh and lapierre, which has dope mountain bikes.

josephr

12-03-2014, 09:35 AM

It wont matter, any shop owner who seeks sales advice from THE PACELINE will be closing shop in the next off season.

my first read of this comment, it came off as snarky...but then realized its a pretty smart comment. Most of us here appreciate the unusual or custom or high-end....unless you're in a major market, probably hard to survive as a bike retailer that way. Its not wrong to make money.

Folks here can whine about Specialized, Trek, Cannondale, etc...but when I go on club rides or larger group rides, 80% of the riders are on one of the three. If I were to open my own shop, I'd aim for one of these and then select a complimentary upscale brand to feature -- like Moots. But most of all, I'd make sure I had a couple of kick-butt wrenches running my service department.

bargainguy

12-03-2014, 09:41 AM

Why any of them? Concentrate on repairs, small stuff, some custom frames, and have as little money as possible in inventory. As little floor planning costs as possible. Avoid business debt.....

I know of a shop in Madison, WI - Old Town Cycles - that doesn't sell bikes. Service and new parts only:

http://www.oldtowncycles.com/about

Now one would think that this is an excellent business model, avoiding the yearly ritual of guessing the new bike market and the accompanying headaches, by concentrating on mostly service.

And yet, I'll bet that many think this doesn't work for most folks, that you need the new bike retail side to support the service side. Thoughts?

oldpotatoe

12-03-2014, 09:58 AM

I know of a shop in Madison, WI - Old Town Cycles - that doesn't sell bikes. Service and new parts only:

http://www.oldtowncycles.com/about

Now one would think that this is an excellent business model, avoiding the yearly ritual of guessing the new bike market and the accompanying headaches, by concentrating on mostly service.

And yet, I'll bet that many think this doesn't work for most folks, that you need the new bike retail side to support the service side. Thoughts?

Smart bike shop guys realize service margin much higher than bike margin, much. How many new car dealers and how many car repair places in your area. Here about 6 and 30, respectively. Not the trekspecializedgiant model but neither is Hoshi Motors here a 'Honda dealer'. Trek and all see service as a liability, which it is not if done right. More fun too, just service. I think the 'Vecchio's' model is a good one. Service, 3-4 frames, fit-frame-wheels-group-sale.

Ken Robb

12-03-2014, 10:38 AM

In San Diego I think the biggest Fuji dealer is the chain of Performance Bike shops. Since they expanded through buy-outs of various shops there is quite a difference in the "vibe" of the shops and the quality of sales/service staffs. They were smart enough to try to keep the good employees in the shops they acquired so customers' experiences will vary depending on which Performance store they try.

I don't think Fuji would be a good line for a small independent shop here because it is almost seen as a Performance house brand.

zerocool5468

12-03-2014, 10:41 AM

i second fuji and focus if he wants something different.

torquer

12-03-2014, 10:59 AM

In San Diego I think the biggest Fuji dealer is the chain of Performance Bike shops. ....

I don't think Fuji would be a good line for a small independent shop here because it is almost seen as a Performance house brand.
I was going to recommend Fuji, too, based on my experience that they offered good value across their product line. Another forumite mentioned they offered attractive margins.
But then I saw the link to the Performance CX blowout sale, which surely makes life difficult for any IBD selling Fujis. Say what you will about the big three, at least they protect their dealers from cannibalization via web sales.
Since the original poster was from Canada, maybe the Performance house brand image (as well as direct competition) isn't as big a factor,
And is ASI the Fuji distributor north of the border? Do they offer Breezer and Kestrel combo franchises alongside Fuji? That sounds like a good lineup for a small shop looking to offer a full lineup.

DrSpoke

12-03-2014, 11:04 AM

I'm a big fan of Pivot bicycles and Masi has a pretty complete range in their line too.

MattTuck

12-03-2014, 11:06 AM

Well, let me say that I am no fan of Specialized. I think they are evil and I've been known to call them Sinyard & Associates, Attorneys at Law.

That said, if I were in it to make money, I think you need the Specialized brand to compete with the Trek and Giant dealers nearby. I hate to say it, but I just don't think that Fuji or Raleigh is going to attract people. I have no idea of the dynamics of your particular market, but it seems like you're going to have to 'take market share' to be a serious contender, and I'm just not sure that the second tier manufacturers will do it.

I agree though, with the general point that OP makes, that the typical business model of a bike shop is not ideal (competition online for hard and soft goods, lots of money in inventory, etc.). And that if you have the capabilities to be a good service shop, I think the economics can work.

shovelhd

12-03-2014, 11:08 AM

We can suggest all we want but it al comes down to the floor plan and cash flow requirements of each brand.

zzy

12-03-2014, 11:22 AM

Cervelo does very well around here. It's a major brand as well.

It's a Toronto thing, and the dealer market is already saturated there. Plus since the PON buyout the quality has gone down (arguably before too) and they haven't put out anything interesting that isn't a <700g $9k wonderbike in a long time.

I would stump for Fuji and Raleigh. Good margin and a wide range of product for the average cyclist. Entering the high-end road market is hard unless you really know what you're doing and have a lot of money to invest in inventory.

rnhood

12-03-2014, 12:41 PM

If he needs a full line and good name recognition, then Specialized is the ticket - especially if this line is available in the area. They provide a full line of accessories, top shelf bikes of all disciplines, excellent support and a dynamic image in the marketplace. The first thing you learn in business school is that to be successful, first take all the chips off your shoulder.

PaMtbRider

12-03-2014, 12:44 PM

I don't think Fuji would be a good line for a small independent shop here because it is almost seen as a Performance house brand.

I was just getting ready to type this exact same thing. Carrying any line that can be mail ordered from Performance or any other online retailer is going to be tough.

Idris Icabod

12-03-2014, 01:17 PM

Cervelo does very well around here. It's a major brand as well.

We have a shop with a large on-line presence that dropped Cervelo (twice) because I was told they were a nightmare to deal with on a miriad of business issues and warranty issues.

Point Grey

12-03-2014, 01:38 PM

Very small shop ... currently mainly deal in Rocky Mountain and Scott.

He wants a highly diverse lineup, and a strong selection of entry-level product, and a good choice of cyclocross bikes as that seems to be really taking off here.

Look at Devinci Bikes for solid entry level products in all categories. A Canadian company that still manufactures bikes (aluminium frames are welded in Quebec) and are priced competitively.

biker72

12-03-2014, 02:54 PM

We have a shop with a large on-line presence that dropped Cervelo (twice) because I was told they were a nightmare to deal with on a miriad of business issues and warranty issues.

Understatement of the year.
They haven't been that hard to deal with where I work but the warranty issues are out of sight.

p nut

12-04-2014, 09:48 AM

FlashUNC

12-04-2014, 10:19 AM

You mention cross. Maybe not the broadest range out there, but they make outstanding cross bikes for the money, imo: Redline.

Yeah, no Saturday Morning Worlds racer bikes in their lineup, but you get cross, MTB, commuter and the BMX crowd.

Loved my Conquest Pro. Just wish I loved cross more.

oldpotatoe

12-04-2014, 11:11 AM

Just out of curiosity, for those that have or are in the busines, what are the typical margins of these smaller shops? I think I remember reading about Rivendell's sales report of something like $2mm in sales with net margins of $50m. (m = $000's). That's pretty slim. Wondering what the industry average is.

Take wholesale $ and divide by .65, that's a 35% margin. Cost $65, sell at $100, 35% margin. Not profit, not markup. Margin.

35% or such recognized minimum margin in order to break even at end of year. No net profit and no additional debt.

Above 2.5% net profit not bad.

Ken Robb

12-04-2014, 11:23 AM

Take wholesale $ and divide by .65, that's a 35% margin. Cost $65, sell at $100, 35% margin. Not profit, not markup. Margin.

35% or such recognized minimum margin in order to break even at end of year. No net profit and no additional debt.

Above 2.5% net profit not bad.

And sometimes sole proprietors or owners don't pay themselves a regular salary so their "net profit" is misleading as far as their return on their investment in the business. They have really just bought themselves a job disguised as a business. There is nothing wrong with that if it makes them happy. I am very sympathetic to people running small retail businesses probably because I worked in fine clothing stores for men from high school through college and back then we closed at 6pm every night but Thursday when we were open until 9pm. Almost all retailers were closed on Sunday so staffing requirements were not as demanding as they are today.

jimoots

12-04-2014, 10:30 PM

Focus do really well down here. They are as popular with MAMIL road riders/racers (reasonably priced road line) as they are with the CX crew (good CX selection) as they are with the Rapha cats (Rapha/Focus team).

Aaron O

12-05-2014, 07:40 AM

I would go Bianchi (without knowing what I'm talking about) because I know that the local guys wish they could carry it and our Bianchi dealer sells a lot of bikes. People seem to really seek Bianchi out from what I've heard. I'd also try to carry a folder line.

dawgie

12-05-2014, 08:35 AM

What is market like in your area and what types of cycling are underserved? In my city, most of the bike shops cater to the wannabe racer crowd. A new shop opened downtown, catering to commuters and tourers and MUT riders. They are doing great business because that portion of the local market was underserved.

The brands they carry are Jamis, Bianchi, Surly, Public and All City. They will special order frames from companies like Soma. None of the other bike shops in town carry any of these brands, with the possible exception of Bianchi.