Any Runners?

[redir]

EDIT: resurrected zombie thread see page 3.

---------

I'm thinking about going over to the dark side :D

I simply cannot take riding in the cold anymore. I used to relish in it. I would grow a beard and had many rides when said beard was full of icicles. Something happened to me after the Kansas City Cyclocross Nationals a few years back when it was -8deg and I froze so bad that now everytime it gets cold like that I get insanely itchy all over my hands and legs.

It's really weird.

Anyway. I used to be able to run long distances well, 25 years ago. I've always done a bit of running for cyclocross but it's more or less like I have not ran in 25 years. So it's a bit intimidating. From what I understand the most common injuries happen to people like me. Those who want to start running and bite off more then they can chew.

So I'm checking this out: http://www.coolrunning.com/engine/2/2_3/181.shtml

Seems pretty cool. Anyway just thought I'd share and welcome any advice from fellow runners.

Regards.

[p nut]

I like to run in the cold (ride as well).

I was competitive way back in my high school days, but just ran for fun since then. Not sure if there needs to be any sort of regiment to follow. I would just start slow and ease into it, like anything else. Start off with 1-2 miles. Run that for 2 weeks, then up it by a mile every other week? I don't know--something like that.

Buy some good shoes, though. Visit your local running store.

[mgm777]

Redir,

Welcome to the club.

I share your sentiment regarding cold weather riding. I do it occasionally and have all the gear, but prefer to run in the winter. Running is a much warmer activity in the winter, compared to cycling. Also, the gear requirement for a cold weather run is much simpler.

As you pursue this endeavor, I recommend you take it slow at first, and build your running fitness gradually. Don't increase the frequency of your runs, the mileage, or the pace too much too soon. Give your body time to adapt. Most new runners(and seasoned runners too) get into the sport and then proceed to ramp up their running load(frequency, distance, or pace) too soon, and then they get injured.

Good luck.

[DRZRM]

Yeah, I'd agree with what p nut said. I have a few (slow) marathons behind me, but have not run much again until recently. We got a new puppy, now a year old, and a few months ago we started doing short slow runs. Start with just a few miles, and mix in walking if you need to. Work your way up to whatever distance you want to be running. I never much feel like running more than 4-5 miles these days, but it feels pretty good.

[hockeybike]

I've been running a ton, recently. Every other day or so during the week. Loving it for the fitness and for how little time it takes. Do it to it!

[Dave Ferris]

Very serious and passionate 61 yr. old runner for almost 34 years here. Around 65,000 total miles run. Nothing compared to a -Bill Rogers/ Frank Shorter/Joan Benoit-Samuelson - but pretty decent for an average Joe guy.

Still managing 4-5 days a week and around 30 miles a week. Some weeks more, some weeks less, depending on how I feel - both physically and mentally.

Everything's (speed, strength on hills & endurance) down a bit right now as I'm in my 5th week of radiation treatment for Prostate Cancer. Will be done on Dec. 31. But expect to be back to normal in Jan.

Normally do the bike thing (reluctantly) on Tuesdays & Thursdays. If I feel good, I might throw in a 3rd bike of a 60-90 minute easy road ride on Sundays, after the longer run of 10-12 miles.

Yeah ease back into it. Allow plenty of recovery days and get quality running shoes. I'd go to a running specific store managed by runners. and get fit.

If you pronate, you don't want a neutral shoe for people who supinate (like me).
Can't stress how important stretching and trigger point massage therapy are in avoiding injury long and even short term. Running specific strength exercises too.

I've posted extensively about it and just general running stuff here, with product links (no affiliation).
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=1648649#post1648649

Sounds like you might need a 5k to re-motivate you ? Nothing wrong with that. Many people I know can't train regularly unless they have a race to point to. Personally I gave up racing 10 years ago after many years (bowed out with a 1:35 in the Santa Clarita Half Marathon at age 51). Now just run simply because of my intense passion for it. It also is the best way, time management wise, to stay super fit.

On the issue of riding in the cold and rain- I don't see how you East coast/Midwesterners do it. It's lightly raining in LA today and I'll probably take the day off...Yes we are the ultimate weather wimps....lol

Good luck getting back into it. For me there's nothing like it and a fulfillment cycling (road or mountain) can never replace.

[adavco]

I don't consider myself much of a runner.. but I force myself to do it through the winter months. With shorter days and cold temps I like being able to get a decent workout in under 30 mins.

I rarely run over the summer so every winter I used to be incredibly sore for a week or so as I start introducing running back into my routine... I'm finally learned its better to ease into it. Definitely start with some new shoes and start with a uncomfortably slow pace. I found alternating between walking and running 50/50 for the first few times out is a good way to ease into it without getting sore. From there start working up the distance and then focus on speed if you want.

[rugbysecondrow]

I enjoy running and have gotten better at it over the years. Commit to learning how to run. I recently started ready Kelly Starrets new book, "Ready to Run" and it is great. It talks not just about the run, but the moblity, prep and lifestyle changes which help aid your running.

I enjoy a minimalist shoes, not barefoot, but certainly a shoes with no heal to toe drop, but that is me and it is how I have developed my running form. If you are starting fresh and new, you might look into it as well as you have little to no form issues to correct or retrain.

Cheers!

Paul

[crownjewelwl]

Please don't run...get a mountain bike and ride in the woods...much more enjoyable since you're not moving as fast as on the road

[zennmotion]

I run 4-5X per week, 30-45mins max, comfortable pace as part of an early morning routine, but I keep it light so it doesn't get in the way of a good ride (I'm not sore or particularly tired afterward, keep moving but feeling easy). For me it helps with mood, weight maintenance, and I can do it in all weather or light conditions without fuss. With age my objectives are changing- I think it's useful as a weight-bearing exercise and it also forces me to stretch- cycling alone isn't enough for health and overall fitness IMO. As far as any benefits for cyclocross, I'd say that it hasn't made me faster, but my recovery post-race is better, those non-cycling specific muscles aren't so sore as they used to be the day after a race when I was doing no running at all. Post-cross pain is a special animal, know'msayin...? I started a couple of years ago and it was key to my dropping 20lbs over 4 months with some other non-drastic dietary changes, now it's just a habit, don't think about it much anymore, I just do it, easy to squeeze in before I dress for my bike commute to the office.

[verticaldoug]

Sounds like you experienced Frostnip in Kansas which explains the itchy.

Running is pretty simple and no need to over think it. Everyone's mechanics are a little different.

As another member wrote: go to a running store and get a pair of shoes that work for you.

After that, I'd just start running and have some fun. . .
If you want to race a 5k at some point, then by all means just follow the plan in the book. Whatever motivates you is what works...

[Cicli]

I like to run in the cold as well. It's also nice to be able to go out and run off 5k real quick. In the winter months I either go run outside or run at our indoor track at the park district. I am sort of liking the indoor track because I can put in the 5k then spend 30-45 minutes on an exercise bike or eliptical thingy.
It works for me and come spring I am ready to hit it.
I still ride on the weekends if the roads are dry.

[slidey]

As hockeybike said, running has minimal overhead costs in every which way possible - slip on your shoes, get out the door.

The time utilisation of the activity is a huge win for me :
time spend doing the activity/
(time spent in getting ready for the activity+time spent doing the activity+time spent to get ready for workafter the activity)

Moreover, for the same amount of time I spend running I know I get a more intense workout. Little time, more sweat!

[zerocool5468]

try mountain biking in the winter

[Chris]

I'm in the same boat. After 20+ years of putting on tights and booties and stocking caps and gloves to go out and wait for the ice cream headache to go away after the first 20 minutes of freezing before I even got numb enough not to care I was ready for a change. I just can't bear another winter training for hours on end in the cold. I've been running for the past couple of months now. I started really easy with just 20 minutes at a time two or three times a week and I've worked my way up to where I'm running 4 to 6 miles at a time four or five times a week. I even went to a friend of mine's sports physiology lab yesterday to have him do some assessment of my running form. One of the things that I realized after that assessment was how all that time basically only cycling had been great for the cycling muscles but so detrimental to the rest of my body. I'm actually looking forward to the opportunity of having a little more time since running is so much more efficient to get out and do some training that might balance out all the muscle imbalance is that I have.

[moobikes]

I run and bike in winter and enjoy both. Definitely try running, if only for a change.

Definitely start slow to prevent injuries. Good shoes and good form really help. There's a lot out there on the internet. Don't try to read everything.

After a few weeks of running, you might find your body much happier working out in the cold, as if the internal furnace is able to shift up a couple gears. You might even be able to get back to cycling.

Also, the suggestion to go mtbking is a good one. Running on trails is also fun and a bit more mentally engaging than running on the street.

Good luck!

[Dead Man]

JUST started running again... have only done one. First run in at least 6 months, probably more like 8, maybe even more? And I haven't run seriously for probably 3 years anyway. I tried to get back into it about a year ago, but just hit pain walls. All the small muscles in my lower leg just screamed at me.. atrophied from cycling exclusively, I guess. I would run, hurt, and be incapable of running again for two weeks.

This time, I am just going to try to take it even slower than before. I did 3 miles at a 10:00 pace, which might very well be the slowest 3 miles I've ever run in my life. No pain during the run, miraculously, but the legs did get tight during the last mile. Later that night, however.... yea, the delayed-onset-muscle-soreness didn't delay long. I was crippled for three whole days.

But you know what's weird? Despite not being able to walk right at all, for the pain, I still rode almost as strong as before. Great demonstration of just how different the muscle groups are between the two activities.

[gregblow]

I'm thinking about going over to the dark side :D

I simply cannot take riding in the cold anymore. I used to relish in it. I would grow a beard and had many rides when said beard was full of icicles. Something happened to me after the Kansas City Cyclocross Nationals a few years back when it was -8deg and I froze so bad that now everytime it gets cold like that I get insanely itchy all over my hands and legs.

It's really weird.

Anyway. I used to be able to run long distances well, 25 years ago. I've always done a bit of running for cyclocross but it's more or less like I have not ran in 25 years. So it's a bit intimidating. From what I understand the most common injuries happen to people like me. Those who want to start running and bite off more then they can chew.

So I'm checking this out: http://www.coolrunning.com/engine/2/2_3/181.shtml

Seems pretty cool. Anyway just thought I'd share and welcome any advice from fellow runners.

Regards.

Go very very slow!! It will take at least a year or more for your body to absorb the weight bearing load. If you don't go slow, you can guarantee an over use injury.

[ivanooze]

essentials for running (in my opinion)
1. get fitted for your shoes
2. buy shoes
3. always stretch

[stephenmarklay]

I ran once but I hid behind a tree until the danger passed.

Ok not really. I don't much but I have. A couple of weeks ago I was in Seattle working and I had a pass to a local Gym. I ran on a treadmill for 1/2 hour and I had that runners high. My calfs were sore for a week.

[seanile]

I froze so bad that now everytime it gets cold like that I get insanely itchy all over my hands and legs.happens to my friend as well, doctors tell him he's allergic to the cold (not kidding)

[GScot]

I started running in 2011 and have become just as addicted as cycling. I'll second the suggestion to visit a good running store to be fit for shoes. I did that and watched the treadmill film of my stride with critique from the pro. I had excellent motion on the left but a weird kick with my foot splayed out on the right. 6 weeks of training my stride with intentional focus and watching the wear pattern on my shoes fixed the problem. There was a good bit of pain and massages required in that six weeks but it paid off and I have never suffered what I would consider a real injury.

[JulRip]

Best thing you can do. Use it everyday on it band.

[Dead Man]

http://rlv.zcache.com/i_only_run_during_cyclocross_oval_sticker-r8036792952ff48a9b35684558fb90bc4_v9wz7_8byvr_512. jpg

[MrDangerPants]

One resource I point folks interested in running is Hal Higdon's web site (http://www.halhigdon.com/training/). He's more known for his marathon training programs though has distances from 5K to 13.1 miles also. He provides training programs for novices through expert runners, too.

[harryblack]

there's a very modest, progressive running program triathletes are into called the "Barry P" program-- i've not had use for it but many swear by its efficacy & solid, but conservative, progressions... worth looking into.

running >>>>> cycling in cold & many other weathers. we can get a top workout in the same amount of time it takes us to get dressed & un- for cycling.

just or mostly cycling-- esp. road but mtn isn't THAT much better-- is pretty lame exercise for almost everything else.

thus core core core core core core CORE CORE CORE CORE is very important for anyone over say 35 years old...

... but even younger, strong runners get hurt from imbalances, stress.

echoing foam roller + the Stick or similar massager + 5" styofoam ball + lacrosse ball

speaking for myself, since I stopped bike racing and switched to road racing, I've had to work especially on hamstring stretch/strengthening (done & done) calf stretch, adductor/abductor & general balance... I'm still improving on the last after last calf strain (I race sub 6 mile/minute, not blazing but decent for age group) & will get better.

oh, I had a bout of plantar that lasted a year but I only skipped maybe a week of training. Got bigger shoes (from size 9 to 10), did some PT, went to great graston/ART chiro... Haven't had any flare up in over a year AND I went from heavier to lighter shoes-- not "minimal" but less drop & support.

In warmer weather I ** do ** recommend people run barefoot once in a while but literally for maybe a mile a week on a grass field.

These just random thoughts but I'll add one more and that's, though there are triathletes that go nuts in extremis over ALL their equipment, getting back to running is excellent way to not 'worry' or fetishize bike parts so much. I know that's "fun" for many of us but still... running simplicity >>>>>>>

[redir]

Thanks for all the replies.

I do have a good running store in my town. When I went there they analyzed my stride and recommended shoes. They were not cheap! But if I don't like them after 30 days I can return them for store credit. Plus get this... All my life I would go to shoe stores and just grab a pair of 13's off the shelf that felt comfortable enough and buy them. It's about the last size a typical shoe store carries it seems. Well it turns out I'm actually a size 14 so I've always worn shoes too small.

I still mountain bike in the winter but as many of you mentioned I need to go for the best bang for the buck type exercise this year because I'm very busy with my regular job and my side business. I just don't want to start riding again in the spring ten pounds heavier.

I do walk about 2 miles 5 days a week typically so I'm hoping that will count for something starting off.

Sunday is my target date.

happens to my friend as well, doctors tell him he's allergic to the cold (not kidding)

I have actually read about that too. It's pretty crazy. What I have to do when it hits me is actually go back outside where it's cold and ween back into room temperature. It's almost like severe pain really but it's an itch, an absolutely insane burn kind of itch. I hate it but I guess it's a part of my life now.

[p nut]

Thanks for all the replies.

I do have a good running store in my town. When I went there they analyzed my stride and recommended shoes. They were not cheap!

Well, they are cheap, actually, when you factor in the potential knee/foot problems due to poor fitting. I think this is probably the #1 area where beginners skimp out on and pay for it later on.

Good luck with running. Also, don't count out trail running. Microspikes, if it's icy. So much fun.

[Dave Ferris]

Yeah I'm bugged running shows have gone up so much...but then what hasn't. Well, musician's salaries..lol but I digress.

I used to think $100 was a lotta dough for shoes, now just a basic good shoe like the Brooks Dyad (that I wear), Adrenaline , New Balance 840, etc are right around $120.

You can get good deals on closeouts through Holabird but I'm a 4E in Brooks and 2E in New Balance. Most of the time most places don't carry those kind of widths, especially in a neutral shoe.

And don't even get me started on the cost of entry fees for even little local 5 & 10Ks. The big city, high profile marathons are outrageous. Part of the reason I stopped racing.

HarryBlack-what I wouldn't give to be running a 6 minute pace. Or even 8 minute training pace like I did through my 40s into my early 50s until the evil Halix Rigidus (stiffening of the big toe joint) came into the picture. I'm at a stage 4 condition with it right now and it has severely compromised my push off and overall form. That coupled with being 61, I'm a slow old guy now. But don't care...still out there doing it.

[cd_davis]

Just sped read all the posts, great advice for sure from middle age plus guys. If you can run on soft surfaces to start like trails or artificial surface running track, all the better. In my town, more of the frequent runners are women, so join along with a few of them. Better than drafting behind black bike shorts worn by older dudes! I know, politically incorrect.

[roadie7]

This is a timely thread as I grapple with this winter's workout schedule. I quit running due to back and hamstring issues 15 years ago. I'm thinking of running on a treadmill this winter using the schedule from the original link.

Has anyone returned to running after quitting due to injuries and what happened? Also, how many of you plan on running outside versus on a treadmill and what do you think?

Thanks.

[p nut]

Has anyone returned to running after quitting due to injuries and what happened? Also, how many of you plan on running outside versus on a treadmill and what do you think?

Thanks.

You couldn't pay me to run on a hamster wheel. Unless I've got health issues or somehow have no choice than run on a treadmill, I'm running outside.

[rugbysecondrow]

This is a timely thread as I grapple with this winter's workout schedule. I quit running due to back and hamstring issues 15 years ago. I'm thinking of running on a treadmill this winter using the schedule from the original link.

Has anyone returned to running after quitting due to injuries and what happened? Also, how many of you plan on running outside versus on a treadmill and what do you think?

Thanks.

I don't run inside for more than just a warm up (less than a mile) to do other fitness. Just too damn boring.

For indoor fitness, I jump rope. My favorite ropes are made by http://jumpnrope.com/ and are really worth it.

Incidentally, I have had the opposite experience in that running actually helps my back pain. I had my gait analyzed and realized that it was too long, so shortening it up and changing which part of my foot contacted the ground (mid foot) actually helped a lot. When I strode too long, my heal hit, then my leg (which was more locked out) transfered the hit up to my hips and back. In essence, i was running forward, while also braking a little each time...not efficient and also caused lots of mini impacts the whole run. When I shortened my stride and started thinking of my contact more like a foot hitting the ground to propel a skateboard, that visualization helped me.

[katematt]

Just getting back into it myself. A running guru friend recommended the Saucony Ride6 shoes. I'm pretty neutral so they work well and I got them online for $65. Ran marathons years ago with Nike's but those are way to much nowadays.

Yeah I'm bugged running shows have gone up so much...but then what hasn't. Well, musician's salaries..lol but I digress.

I used to think $100 was a lotta dough for shoes, now just a basic good shoe like the Brooks Dyad (that I wear), Adrenaline , New Balance 840, etc are right around $120.

You can get good deals on closeouts through Holabird but I'm a 4E in Brooks and 2E in New Balance. Most of the time most places don't carry those kind of widths, especially in a neutral shoe.

[mhespenheide]

Redir,

You've been getting some good advice here, so I'll just chime in my $0.02. I'm now 41, started cycling in high school but then switched into mostly running until the last five years or so, when cycling has started to climb back into precedence.

The most important thing about switching into running or adding running into a cycling program is to take it slowly. Most cyclists who start to run look at the introductory running programs think they're too easy and go for more time and faster speeds -- which, given their good aerobic condition and basic leg strength will work for a few weeks or even a month or two before they get injured because they don't have the supporting muscle/tendon system specific to running.

Practically speaking, there's not too much difference between any of the beginning running plans. Just pick one and stick to it. Keep cycling as your primary fitness tool for a couple of months until your tendons and joints get up to speed. Start now and you should be good to go by February or so... :rolleyes:

Personally, I like mixing the two sports. Keep up the running at least one or two days a week over the next year and then by next fall, start ramping up in mid-September or so (most places have a race/run near Thanksgiving; that can be a good target to aim towards) and you'll be good to go over the next winter.

[zennmotion]

I just ran into this article today, very apropos to the thread, and it supports what I believe about the importance of running if you are able to run. http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/12/03/run-to-stay-young/?action=click&contentCollection=Middle%20East&module=MostEmailed&version=Full&region=Marginalia&src=me&pgtype=article Another anecdotal data point is my own father who has been riding regularly for at least 30 years. Now in his early 80s, he can still knock out a 50+ mile ride in mid-season without too much effort. However, walking just a gentle half mile is painful for him, he's losing that ability to walk.


Sure, I love to ride, much more than running. But if throwing in a regular run to my routine will help me keep me able to be stay on my feet in the coming decades, it's a no-brainer. The wildest most beautiful places in the world are still not accessible by bicycle, and my bucket list is long...

(BTW, accompanying Dad at a 13mph pace for 4+hours is a lesson in which saddles work for me... my fave Arione racing seat that feels fine all day at my own faster pace HURTS with no pressure on the pedals for just a very slow couple of hours, but I digress)

[rwerkudara]

This is a timely thread as I grapple with this winter's workout schedule. I quit running due to back and hamstring issues 15 years ago. I'm thinking of running on a treadmill this winter using the schedule from the original link.

Has anyone returned to running after quitting due to injuries and what happened? Also, how many of you plan on running outside versus on a treadmill and what do you think?

Thanks.

Started running after a pretty bad cycling injury. Didn't really stretch often and i didn't pay attention to my form. As a result, I had really bad ITB issues that pretty much made me quit running before I really got into it. After some time, I started stretching (especially foamrolling) and added strengthening to my workouts. That really made a difference for me and since then, I've ran/raced enough to qualify for my first marathon (NYC) next year.

As for running on a treadmill vs. outside, for me the treadmill helped me with maintaining a certain speed/pace. I still prefer running outside, but that's personal preference.

[moobikes]

For those of you wondering about old injuries affecting your cycling or running abilities, consider going to the gym to do some strength training.

For cyclists who are getting back to running, it's especially important to look after your legs and back. All the little muscles that hold the body steady when running go lazy after long periods of cycling. Pay extra attention to the muscles holding up your hips, knees and ankles.

Squats, and dead lifts, done with careful attention to proper form and enough weight for 15 - 20 reps x 3 sets, are very useful to help you get back to running without injuring yourself. The gym work will help prevent injuries to joints and ligaments that can hobble you for long periods.

[oldpotatoe]

I ran once but I hid behind a tree until the danger passed.

Ok not really. I don't much but I have. A couple of weeks ago I was in Seattle working and I had a pass to a local Gym. I ran on a treadmill for 1/2 hour and I had that runners high. My calfs were sore for a week.

Saw this yesterday-funny

[oldpotatoe]

Yeah I'm bugged running shows have gone up so much...but then what hasn't. Well, musician's salaries..lol but I digress.

I used to think $100 was a lotta dough for shoes, now just a basic good shoe like the Brooks Dyad (that I wear), Adrenaline , New Balance 840, etc are right around $120.



When I wore a younger man's clothes, and a runner, late 70s, early 80s, I remember the first $100 shoe. NewBalance 990..all those who I ran with swooned..

For now, 30 years later, $115-$120..not bad I'd say.

Ran with Brooks Vantage, Vantage Supreme, Asics.

[redir]

Gosh I can't believe it's been two years. Just digging this old thread up to perhaps inspire anyone else who gets lazy this time of year or doesn't want to ride in the cold.

Since I started this thread I've been actively running at least once a week in the warm months to maintain it till it gets cold. Now I'm starting to ramp it up again from one 5k per week to about 15-20k.

Running has been very good to me. It's definitely helped keep the weight down. To start I used the couch to 5k app and it really worked the way it was designed, to bring you on slowly and safely and get you on your way.

:beer:

[AngryScientist]

yup, back to running here too.

planning on doing a 1/2 marathon in the spring. :hello:

[exapkib]

Food for thought on the relationship between running and injuries (https://news.byu.edu/news/study-running-actually-lowers-inflammation-knee-joints).

Interesting study that shows that endurance running actually decreases levels of inflammation in the knee joints of otherwise healthy individuals.

All I know is that I usually hurt after running. I must be doing it wrong.

[redir]

On the days that I run I take a Naproxen. Otherwise I feel your pain ;)

[Dead Man]

JUST started running again... have only done one. First run in at least 6 months, probably more like 8, maybe even more? And I haven't run seriously for probably 3 years anyway. I tried to get back into it about a year ago, but just hit pain walls. All the small muscles in my lower leg just screamed at me.. atrophied from cycling exclusively, I guess. I would run, hurt, and be incapable of running again for two weeks.

This time, I am just going to try to take it even slower than before. I did 3 miles at a 10:00 pace, which might very well be the slowest 3 miles I've ever run in my life. No pain during the run, miraculously, but the legs did get tight during the last mile. Later that night, however.... yea, the delayed-onset-muscle-soreness didn't delay long. I was crippled for three whole days.

But you know what's weird? Despite not being able to walk right at all, for the pain, I still rode almost as strong as before. Great demonstration of just how different the muscle groups are between the two activities.

Still struggling with the same problems, and still haven't run much. I started trying again a couple weeks ago... just doing 1 mile a morning for a week, then 1.5, then 2..... gonna keep with that pattern going until I can't do it anymore or it works

HAVE to find a way to stay fit over the winter. Can't deal with trying to cut 20lbs for the race season again.. that **** was awful, and I rack disciprine.

One thing I've noticed this time around, though - I don't get sore if I heel strike. Back when I was a big runner, I heel struck until my knees started taking a big hit. Did a 12 mile hill run one night, and running down the backsides of rollers killed my knees - wasn't able to run or do anything for quite a while. I think I even ended up having to do physical therapy and ****.. anyway, I decided to try fore-striking, and it definitely reduced my knee pain while running, but I could never do more than about 3 miles before the sides of my lower legs would just die on me. Once I made the transition, though, I just kept at it, and it's my natural running form even now... but I deliberately heel-struck during my last run, and guess what? No lower leg pain.

So I think I'm gonna go back to heel-striking, at least for a while. Maybe once I'm up to 3 miles, I'll do first two heel, then switch to fore for the last mile, and see what that does. Or something.

I did feel it in my knees a little, though.

[kppolich]

Runner here. Many marathons, boston twice, 50k and 50 milers under my belt at 28 years old. Coming from playing college football at 205 and dropping down to 155 now. I can't do anything more than 4x a week so I split up running and biking to try to avoid burnout. Never had an injury problem, run year round here in Iowa and ride on the trainer 3x a week using TrainerRoad.

*The key for me avoiding injuries is yoga and taking days off. If I don't feel good or have excess soreness I'll take the day completely off or ride easy for 1 hour on my bike

It is possible to build good running fitness with 3-4 runs a week. I usually do something like this:

Sunday: Ride inside 1 hour TrainerRoad
Monday: Run 3-7 miles easy to shake the previous weeks long run out of my legs
Tuesday: Run -Focuesed speed work or hill repeats
Wednesday: Ride inside 1 hour Trainer Road
Thursday: Run -Group Trail run 12.4 Miles at 5AM
Fri:OFF/or long RUN depending on what I'm training for. I've found that back to back longish runs build fitness quickly.
Sat: Ride inside 1.5 Hours or long run solo

[Dave Ferris]

I haven't posted in a long time…too busy running . The bike has been pretty much an afterthought most of the year.

Back to running 6 days a week , maybe once a month I'll hit 7 days. But then I take a day or two off and hit the gym.

Haven't been on the Potts since Sept. 16. I occasionally feel guilty looking at a 9K mtn. bike that's just sitting there. But that guilty feeling is soon forgotten about 45 seconds into my daily 6 -7 mile run. :D

With this morning's 6 miler, I'm at 1610 miles for the year. My goal is 1700 by 12/31. I'm way up from last year's recovery total of 1167 but down from my 18 consecutive years between the ages of 38 to 56 where I averaged 2100 miles for the year.

At 63 I'm not certain I have it in my legs to get to 2000 again. The 32 miles a week average seems to be about at my breaking point. I've been able to string together some 40 mile weeks this year but then I need to take it down for the recovery for a week or two.

On 12/31, I'll be exactly two years out from my last radiation treatment for the Prostate Cancer. I still don't feel 100% of where I was before the radiation. So maybe in year three I'll get even stronger and be able to hit 2000 miles again.

I have slowed WAY down in the last 2 years and my strength on steep, long continuous hills has practically vanished - before the radiation the hills used to be one of my specialties. Still, I just feel lucky and blessed to still be out there grinding away at 63 when many of my friends - younger in their 50s and faster then I ever was, have stopped altogether - due to nagging injuries or burnout.

The only downside is - man they aren't making running shoes near as durable as they used to. I used to get easily 400 miles out of a pair. These days all manufacturers make the shoes lighter and more flexible- I'm lucky to get 200 miles out a pair before I crush the outsole. I'm at 155 and a neutral runner , no over pronation.. Couple that with the price increase to $120-150 - running is not as cheap as it once was. :(

[deechee]

Hey DeadMan,

Have you tried Hoka shoes? I'm also a heel striker, and I've used racing flats, but honestly, Hokas have been a life saver. When I was doing long distance tri, with my legs already messed up, the Hokas with the extra padding helped a ton, and kept my plantar fasciitis at bay. Running with a metronome also helps to up the cadence which I find helps the foot injuries more than thinking "oh I gotta run like a bunny" or whatever.

[Dave Ferris]

I ran in the Brooks Dyad (104E) for many years. Back in early March I switched over to the Hoka Bondi 4s (10 2E). I alternate Hoka days with the Altra Torin 2.0 (10.5). The Torins are now at version 2.5.

The Hokas are way more durable then the Altras. But I highly like the zero heel drop of the Altras, and the much lower heel drop of the Hokas compared to the Brooks Dyad.

If you come from the traditional running shoe, you need to allow time for your body to acclimate to the lower heel drop -- cut your mileage in half or even just do walks with them - for at least 3 weeks. They said a month but i'm too impatient. :D Once I got used to the new tech though, I feel much more in touch with the ground and more stable on my feet. I'm picking my feet up more and tripping less to hardly at all. At 63 and older, tripping is a common occurrence as the stride shortens and we don't have that same spring and flexibility in our legs.

I don't ever seeing myself going back to the traditional 12mm heel drop shoe. I will walk around, maybe even a hike, with the Dyad or go to the gym in it. It still fits my foot great and feels super comfortable but won't run in them anymore.

[redir]

I just got a new pair of Brooks but I think I'm going to take them back. They seem to run too wide. I just replaced a pair of Saucony which were great. I think if I find a pair I like I should buy 3 of them!

[Ryun]

Back to the winter running routine. 4-5 times a week while the girls are at soccer practice and squeezing in 3 bike rides a week. Not so much cold here in Florida is lack of daylight.

Did a half marathon on thanksgiving and another on the 18th. I find a competitive event every couple weeks keeps me motivated even tho I am not really age group competitive.

[giverdada]

it's late in my old-man friday evening now. i'm old enough to have too much crap to do tomorrow but not old enough to be staying up, drinking good scotch, writing out my memoirs while enjoying a stuffed leather chair and the crack of hardwood in a fireplace. i'm heading out on my daily run in a few minutes. in the dark. in the cold. hell, it might even snow a little more.

as it rests, i've been enjoying my biggest run streak of my life, ever, these past few weeks. somehow, this is the first time in my life that i've been able to pull of back to back days, back to back runs, and bear no debilitating injury consequences, like shin splints or screaming ITBS. and my shoes were on sale! (have to find more though, as they've been discontinued and are increasingly rare.) i don't know why, other than daily stretching/yoga and foam-rolling, the right shoes, and an amazing physio who works with me and can kinda hear my body. he's also not trying to get me back in every week; we just work together when it's necessary, and then i spend the rest of my time running. i feel bad about hanging up my bike so much of the season and now the off-season, but i've never been hit by a car while running (close, for sure, but still not actually hit), and with so much of the 'day' in darkness these days, running is the safer workout. i am also using it as therapy for dealing with the crap that this year has ended up being.

i think you may have asked about winter running specifically in your original post, maybe even from years ago. there's lots of stuff to do to make it good or tolerable or whatever, and i'm sure many others have covered it all, but i do want to put in a plug for duct tape, and keeping your feet under you. i often get to run where it's dry (not snow-covered) down on a salted path near the lake, but the wind still rips through me there, freezing my feet. so i duct tape the toe boxes of my regular runners, and i'm good to go for at least a couple of hours. and in terms of stride length/gait/mechanics/not falling on your ass, keeping your feet underneath you when your foot strikes the ground is pretty helpful in many respects. the winter respect is that you're not reaching a long limb way out from your center of gravity to possibly land on a slick surface far from your center of gravity. it also smooths out your gait, lessens overall impact, and helps with injury, all these in my own experience, and YMMV.

anyway, good to talk about this stuff. now i'm a little more motivated to get out there in the driving wind and dark. give'r, eh.

[Jad]

I love to run. After a glorious fall of cyclocross, I'm working my way back up to ~25 miles a week w/ some 10ks dotting the schedule. There's a 50k I want to do in May, but spring riding tends to get the better of me.

Timewise, you get a lot of bang for the buck. I'd been faithful to my Asics and Brooks for a while, but the tires I put on my feet these days are Altra Instincts, which have a nice roomy last and fair cush. Impact is good for the bones!

[Dead Man]

I love to run.

how is this even possible

[wc1934]

.....
The only downside is - man they aren't making running shoes near as durable as they used to. I used to get easily 400 miles out of a pair. These days all manufacturers make the shoes lighter and more flexible- I'm lucky to get 200 miles out a pair before I crush the outsole. I'm at 155 and a neutral runner , no over pronation.. Couple that with the price increase to $120-150 - running is not as cheap as it once was. :(

Have you tried ASICS GT-2000-4? I've been using asics for a zillion years. They've gone thru some changes etc but this model is a solid dependable fairly neutral shoe.

[Jad]

how is this even possible

Haha--fair question. Running gets me as much or more into the moment as anything, so that's part of it. And for little time input, running is good stress management. The right shoes help too, of course.

By the way, what shoes do you use?

[Dave Ferris]

Have you tried ASICS GT-2000-4? I've been using asics for a zillion years. They've gone thru some changes etc but this model is a solid dependable fairly neutral shoe.

I too used to run in Asics exclusively - probably from around '88 up until maybe 2000. Then at around age 47 or 48 , my foot starting really spreading out and even the 4E in all the Asics models were still too narrow. That's when I started getting into the Brooks. It just seemed to fit my foot better. Even their 2E seemed a much more comfy fit then the Asics 4E of my Cumulus.

Also I did run in New Balance for a few years. Plenty wide but the worst fit for my feet….constantly flopping around in those boat anchors.

I noticed the GT2000 comes in a 4E. I could check it out be I'd bet it would be too narrow. Like you said they have long been a presence in the Asics line. Not that I think about it, I probably have tried them on a long time ago….not sure if it was a 4E though. Plus again, I'm highly digging the lower heel drop on the Hoka and Altra models I mentioned earlier. But hey thanks for the suggestion, I will give them another try on. ;)

The Brooks Dyad 6 & 7 were solid, durable shoes. But then they phased them out and the 8s are just terrible with regard to the rubber on the outsole wearing down prematurely !! I see now they are at version 9 but I wouldn't expect a return to the good old days. Why make a shoe that can last for 400-600 miles when you can get the younger higher mileage runners indoctrinated into spending $150 every 2 to 2.5 months ?

[estilley]

Haha--fair question. Running gets me as much or more into the moment as anything, so that's part of it. And for little time input, running is good stress management. The right shoes help too, of course.



By the way, what shoes do you use?



That's it!

I too love running.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[oldpotatoe]

Haha--fair question. Running gets me as much or more into the moment as anything, so that's part of it. And for little time input, running is good stress management. The right shoes help too, of course.

By the way, what shoes do you use?

Gotta agree. Running is simple, cycling is great but much 'busier' and much more expensive. Injuries saw me stop(achilles tendons) and now much heavier(from about 170 to 'more'). So...I'll ride but I really enjoyed running(7 marathons, a bunch of 1/2s, 10 milers, 10ks). I grew up in the Jim Fixx world of long, slow distance. 75 or so mile weeks common. Built for comfort, not for speed. Ran a marathon about same pace as 10k..meaning the 10k slow but I could run all day. Brooks vantage/Vantage supreme, Asics Excaliber GT.

Back in 'those days', wife said I wasn't running but 'running away'..maybe some..things better now, I'll stay on the bike.

[TBLS]

Running program is year round...15-20 weeks off cycling season, 8-10 in season.

Now a bridge to XC skate season.....c'mon snow!

Thoughts on sizing up running shoes? Always wore my std size 10.5 asics. Running store sized up to a 12 brooks ghost. Felt like clown shoes at first but after a few hundred miles, while still not snug, no foot pain, etc.

May try 11.5's but convert so far.

[etu]

This thread makes me jealous. Can't shake the plantar fascititis on my right heel. On year 2 now...:(

[giverdada]

Dude: shockwave therapy. It fixed my plantar fasciitis in 3 treatments at $75 a pop. Super effective. I'm only now, 3 years later, getting slight flare ups but that's with 10 days' consecutive running and my highest mileage weeks ever. I've been treating it now with a wooden foot roller on the arch and heel. Hurts so much it's nauseating sometimes, but totally fixes the problem.

Shockwave is like micro jackhammer right where it hurts the most, and ultrasound at the same time. Activates body's anti inflammatory system and makes you heal yourself. Worked wonders for me. I hope you can get back to running!

[etu]

thanks for the advice.
i know i have thight calves that contribute to the condition. i stretched religiously for awhile without much results. in fact, even biking can exacerbatie if i push too hard.
i am going to get those foot rollers today and look into the the shockwave therapy.

[BobO]

Dude: shockwave therapy. It fixed my plantar fasciitis in 3 treatments at $75 a pop. Super effective. I'm only now, 3 years later, getting slight flare ups but that's with 10 days' consecutive running and my highest mileage weeks ever. I've been treating it now with a wooden foot roller on the arch and heel. Hurts so much it's nauseating sometimes, but totally fixes the problem.

Shockwave is like micro jackhammer right where it hurts the most, and ultrasound at the same time. Activates body's anti inflammatory system and makes you heal yourself. Worked wonders for me. I hope you can get back to running!

Thanks for this. My dad has been dealing with plantar fascitis for years since his last half marathon.

[giverdada]

For sure. I had never heard of it then physio sent me for an ultrasound of my foot and I had a thickened plantar fascia of about 30% or something. Crazy. Went for shockwave and was good to go in a month. Tried the boot for sleeping. Tried stretching the calves. Nothing. Shock wave and now rolling on the wood roller are what work for me. Freezing a water bottle and rolling on that would work too.

[Dead Man]

Haha--fair question. Running gets me as much or more into the moment as anything, so that's part of it. And for little time input, running is good stress management. The right shoes help too, of course.

By the way, what shoes do you use?

Whatever is least expensive at the department store. Currently have some adidas of unknown model

I get it though - I used to "love" running on some kind of level. I never liked it, but I felt strong and free and very in the moment as you say, when just pounding along the road, listening to the rhythm of my steps, breaths, and heartbeat. If it didn't cause me so much pain, I'd probably still really value it. Hope I can get back there



Back in 'those days', wife said I wasn't running but 'running away'..maybe some..things better now, I'll stay on the bike.

My wife says everything I do is escapism. "what are you trying so desperately to escape?"

Uhh.. You, maybe?

I don't necessarily believe life shouldn't be escaped though. If I can keep the bills paid while not having to be particularly present in this so-called real world, what's wrong with that?

[cv1966]

I used to run exclusively until early 2000's when I was constantly injured. Even though I started to ride a lot more, I never totally stopped running. Started running in low drop shoes a few years ago and it's amazing how much better I felt. Recently switched to Hoka Cliftons and they have been great. Plan to do a lot more running and less riding this winter due to time constraints.

[shovelhd]

Hell no.

[MrDangerPants]

planning on doing a 1/2 marathon in the spring

If you're looking for a fantastic half marathon, try the Covered Bridges Half Marathon (www.cbhm.com) in Vermont. I've run it several times dating back to 2000. Registration was last week for 2017 and it sold out fast (it sold out in 8 minutes for the 2016 race). Previous runners get VIP registration a few days in advance and that rocks. I'm signed up for 2017 and really looking forward to it. It's in June and a wonderful time to be running from Pomfret to Quechee.

Have you tried Hoka shoes? I'm also a heel striker, and I've used racing flats, but honestly, Hokas have been a life saver.

While training for the 2014 Boston Marathon, my coach on the team I run (Jack Fultz) recommended Hoka as I got a serious stress fracture in my pelvis that year. I took his advice and have been running in them since. I've had several pairs of different models and am currently in the Clayton. Really dig them. I have a very narrow foot (B width, almost A) so wear the women's version. Fortunately the design for the model I have (Kona Edition) is the same for both sexes. Finally, I'm a heel striker and supinate. The Hoka shoes seem to have corrected some of the supination which is cool.

[keevon]

Trying to get back into running myself. Long time heel striker, but I'd like to be more of a mid- or forefoot striker... seems like less pounding.

What are some good resources for "retraining" my strike? Now is the time to do it.

[BobO]

Trying to get back into running myself. Long time heel striker, but I'd like to be more of a mid- or forefoot striker... seems like less pounding.

What are some good resources for "retraining" my strike? Now is the time to do it.

Start with getting the right shoes for the job. "Wedge" shoes promote a heel strike. You're looking for a flat "natural" shoe. I am partial to the Brooks PureConnect / PureFlow. YMMV

[loimpact]

Trying to get back into running myself. Long time heel striker, but I'd like to be more of a mid- or forefoot striker... seems like less pounding.

What are some good resources for "retraining" my strike? Now is the time to do it.

I'm a big advocate of neutral shoes but don't get crazy trying to change your foot strike! It's been beat to death ad nauseum on running forums. Just run and try to run smoothly and lightly. Let that thought be your guide.

I hardly run anymore but try to never stop. If I can get in 10 miles a week I'm happy! And so is my body and mind!

[Dave Ferris]

I didn't start young enough (reguarly) or ever logged high enough weekly mileage to hit 100K at the age these people have . I'm somewhere between 60-65K at age 63. If I'm lucky enough to keep it going into my late 80s , I might get there.

The goal is to try and hit 1825 this year. 35 miles a week average.

Major tip of the cap to these runners ! Especially the ones in cold climates . Outstanding !!

http://www.runnersworld.com/maximizing-success/what-does-it-take-to-run-100000-miles?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebutton

[Dead Man]

If it didn't cause me so much pain, I'd probably still really value it. Hope I can get back there

So happens that when I switched to heel-striking, my pain pretty much disappeared after a couple weeks. I'm now running 4-6 miles several times a week again, working on getting my pace back up. Been averaging 7:30... I know I could run a lot faster than that (and have been doing 1 mile intervals at like 6:30), but I'm afraid of hurting myself again.. so taking it slow.

I love that I can run again. I still don't exactly like it, but it's better than riding a bike at 5am in the pitch ass frosty icy dark. Not sure how bad I'm screwing myself for road racing, though... hopefully not too bad. HOPEFULLY even this running is helping me to get into good riding condition. Can running condition ever translate to good riding condition??

I'm also doing pistol squats and as soon as I get the garage cleaned up, gonna try to get back on the trainer. But... yea. F'ing hate the trainer. Dunno.

[nmrt]

the only thing that makes me better is cycling is cycling. I, too, while running train at 7:30 - 8:30 pace. Running is all I do in the winter -- no biking. Come Spring I am in terrific running shape but a horrible biker.

But I am pretty certain that if I did not run in the winter, I'd be a even more horrible biker.

So happens that when I switched to heel-striking, my pain pretty much disappeared after a couple weeks. I'm now running 4-6 miles several times a week again, working on getting my pace back up. Been averaging 7:30... I know I could run a lot faster than that (and have been doing 1 mile intervals at like 6:30), but I'm afraid of hurting myself again.. so taking it slow.

I love that I can run again. I still don't exactly like it, but it's better than riding a bike at 5am in the pitch ass frosty icy dark. Not sure how bad I'm screwing myself for road racing, though... hopefully not too bad. HOPEFULLY even this running is helping me to get into good riding condition. Can running condition ever translate to good riding condition??

I'm also doing pistol squats and as soon as I get the garage cleaned up, gonna try to get back on the trainer. But... yea. F'ing hate the trainer. Dunno.

[crankles]

thanks for the advice.
i know i have thight calves that contribute to the condition. i stretched religiously for awhile without much results. in fact, even biking can exacerbatie if i push too hard.
i am going to get those foot rollers today and look into the the shockwave therapy.

I used the Trigger Point small roller and block to fix mine (and a few other friends). I use it every time I start to feel the heel pain.

[crankles]

and this post pretty much sums up my view on running.
http://semi-rad.com/2017/01/i-hate-running/

currently training up for the "Woodmonster (http://www.lmjs.org/woodminster)"

[redir]

I find that I'm in pretty bad cycling shape too come spring but it at least keeps your cardio strong so the bounce back to cycling is easier. One thing I noticed after I started running is that I feel better when standing on climbs cycling. I never really felt comfortable standing now I do it all the time.

I jsut bought a new pair of shoes and started running on them and now have inner knee pain on my right leg. Is that a thing?

The last pair of shoes I bought were fantastic right off the bat I knew they were incredible and of course they don't make them anymore :(

So I'm walking in the new shoes now as a phase into them running on the old shoes, no knee pain.

[redir]

and this post pretty much sums up my view on running.
http://semi-rad.com/2017/01/i-hate-running/

currently training up for the "Woodmonster (http://www.lmjs.org/woodminster)"

Hahahahha! :hello::beer:

[Hindmost]

If conditions are any combination of dark, wet, cold, or sloppy and you have to satisfy the compulsion to get out:

Much easer to psych yourself up for a run.

What a relief when you finish and all you have to deal with is a small pile of dirty clothes and pair of shoes.

[crankles]

If conditions are any combination of dark, wet, cold, or sloppy and you have to satisfy the compulsion to get out:

Much easer to psych yourself up for a run.

What a relief when you finish and all you have to deal with is a small pile of dirty clothes and pair of shoes.

This.

[Dead Man]

If conditions are any combination of dark, wet, cold, or sloppy and you have to satisfy the compulsion to get out:

Much easer to psych yourself up for a run.

What a relief when you finish and all you have to deal with is a small pile of dirty clothes and pair of shoes.

YUP

We had two blissfully dry winterfallsprings (it's all one season - wet and cold, here in Cascadia) in a row till last winter, which I all but stopped riding in and got fat... tried again to ride through this WFS but it's been day after day after day of horrid weather, and then was a messy snowy icy apocalypse for two week, requiring even more layers to clean crusty silty road grime off of every damn ride, plus the bike.. ENOUGH, FOR ****S SAKE

so... running.

[giverdada]

Trying to get back into running myself. Long time heel striker, but I'd like to be more of a mid- or forefoot striker... seems like less pounding.

What are some good resources for "retraining" my strike? Now is the time to do it.

Careful with retraining anything that you do naturally, of course, but I have been working on a detraining of my former retraining and things are working out thus far. I've also had that thing where more heel striking helped with other pain, like in my knee, and also had the plantar flare up again due to too much hell maybe. Maybe it's the running every day for the last 30 straight. Whatever the case, I have found this stuff to help me:

1. Whatever kind of stride you naturally have, you naturally have. Lots of elite runners run 'like weirdos', or have 'incorrect strides' but it works for them so they do it and damn fast. Changing your stride is an endeavour that may or may not bear positive results, as others have cautioned.

2. Whatever kind of stride you want to have, I have found that minding your feet (yes, literally thinking about where they are in space while you cycle through your gait) and making them hit the ground while underneath your hips is the best way to go. Some people do this on the ball of the foot; others do it mid foot or more toward the heel. Whatever the case, your feet should contact the ground underneath you, not in front of you.

3. I like high cadence, usually about 175 steps per minute, to be light on the ground and impact-reducing. It's the same principle as with bikes; little load many times requires less exertion (and recovery) than bigger load fewer times.

4. Last, when I retrained my gait/stride at the direction of a doctor who probably should not have recommended it, I did it on this program which is basically a 'learn to run' program that integrates the body without (hopefully) injuring it. Basically, you run for 30 seconds, walk for 4.5 minutes, and that's one rep. Six times of that, and you've got a half hour session, done. Next session, you increase the run time by 30s, to a minute, and reduce the walk time by 30s, to 4 minutes. Six times for half an hour. Do it again, increasing and decreasing run: walk ratio by 30 seconds, and continue, either every day or every other day, until you work the run up to the full 30 minutes. Then run a little longer. Then a little longer. The whole time, concentrate on stepping more with your feet underneath you. It's like spinning and going nowhere - you're taking many steps, and not moving forward much or for long. Eventually it adds up. And then you skim over the ground, and run like the wind.

5. Grow a massive beard for full Forrest Gump effect... Just kidding.

Hope your running takes off. It's a beautiful thing.

[scho74]

I'm starting training for a marathon in March. Any tips?

Did your time on the saddle take a big hit?

[kppolich]

I'm starting training for a marathon in March. Any tips?

Did your time on the saddle take a big hit?

What is your goal? To finish? Specific time? First marathon? 10x marathoner and 3x ultra guy here- just looking for some baseline info before I give any advice.

[cmbicycles]

I'm starting training for a marathon in March. Any tips?

Did your time on the saddle take a big hit?
Yes, don't do it. ;) I've been training for a marathon in November and my cycling has taken a big hit in saddle time of late, but the little I've been out on the bike for x-training I've been just as fast as usual and can go longer w/o being as fatigued, so that's been a plus. This is my 1st marathon and I'm into the 16-20mi runs now on weekends and so it's a bit of a time commitment for those plus longer training runs before work can sometimew be a drag. Some weekdays I do half the run(4-5 mi) before and half the run after work.

When I got into 10+ mile long runs, doing laps around the neighborhood didn't cut it for me, so I find somewhere with some different scenery, and preferably with some hills if your marathon has hills. I've been using one of Hal Higdon's marathon training plans, he has them for all levels and it was a good place to start for me.

Good luck.

[giverdada]

i don't know, man. seems you live in LA so there's no such thing as winter. i guess you won't have to grow the winter running beard. ah well...

in other news, it also seems you've got 5 solid months of training ahead of you. i don't know any of your background as a rider or a runner or anything else you have going on in your life, but i can tell you what worked for me the last time i prepared for a marathon.

it was my seventh marathon. i had run about a marathon a year before, and had several attempts at PRs. most of the time, i got my PR. sometimes, i crashed and burned horribly, and/or had a great learning experience but not a great finishing result. whatever. i learned a lot in preparing for my last marathon, and the simplest, truest thing was this: running lots makes me lots better at running. really. i've never put in base miles on a bike. never gotten in a thousand kilometres or miles in a month. ever. and so i'm not a great bike rider. safe, steady, whatever, i just don't do it fast unless there's a good descent. last winter, i ran a lot. the most i've ever run in my life. a couple of weeks over 50 miles, which i had never ever done before any marathon. and i ran and ran and ran. lots of slow miles. lots of long runs over 20 miles. lots of long sessions of pick-ups at or faster than race pace. and then i PRed by 5 minutes. all it took was miles.

there's a great race time predictor here: https://www.runnersworld.com/tools/race-time-predictor
and basically, the gist of the story is that miles run in training is the single most influential factor a runner can adjust to change his/her race time. and it's by minutes, if you can run enough miles.

i also loved reading about running, and really got into John L. Parker Jr.'s books, Once a Runner, and its amazing sequel, Again to Carthage. Just awesome stories and writing and about running and so much more. Nice to have things to think about while you run for a couple hours in the dark before work or after the kids are in bed or whatever.

so, run a lot. have you run a marathon before? are you coming to it from other running experience? going for a time or a finish? have a coach? training plans? i don't know any of this stuff, so i just went with the single most influential part of my training that worked well for me last winter. run lots. it's beautiful.

n.

[giverdada]

totally forgot your main question: yes, running took all the saddle time out. i rode only to commute (6mi. each way), but spent all 'real training' time running. fitness-wise, running is a way better bang-for-buck activity than riding, but it also taxed me quite a lot more heavily, which could be what you're looking for or not. and, ymmv, but running never seems to make me any better at cycling, or vice versa. i might have all kinds of fitness of one or the other sport, but crossing over just uses such different muscle movements and strengths that it's never been an advantage. riding is a great way to spin out the legs after a hard run though...

[oldpotatoe]

I'm starting training for a marathon in March. Any tips?

Did your time on the saddle take a big hit?

If your first and you want to actually 'run' a marathon..with a dedicated training program which involves other things like nutrition and stretching..pretty hard to do it all and still ride unless you are not working and have no family.

My first(yeegads..1978 Marine Corps marathon)...3 months, daily run, no days off...followed a plan from Jim Fixx...worked great. Second marathon(Marine Corps again, 1979)..I took 30 minutes off my time, third, Maine Coast marathon..another 20 minutes(3:09 was the best I ever did)...BUT all I did was run...eventually doing a 8/12/8/12/8/16(6 days)..routine, that's in miles..little speed work(I aren't fast)...but it kinda took up the whole day. Throw in work, family, etc...

THEN I saw the light, ran NYC...1985, last marathon..bought a bike the day after the race..never ran again, gained 15 pounds the next day :)also...

Good luck, I really loved running..very simple, easy(cycling is way 'complicated in comparison)...shorts, shoes, ran all over the world, even on the CV(aircraft carrier).."I got my tan off the coast of Iran"..BUT calcium deposits around achilles tendons ended it for me..

[Dead Man]

I'm back to running for cardio now.. and not even because of the weather, just 'cuz my life has flipped around on me so hard it flung me right off the bike n it's all I have time for. And I don't even have time for it - I think I've logged maybe one run a week for the last couplefew weeks.

I did recently figure out why running was hurting so bad, though.

I'd get 2-3 miles into a run, be feeling strong and good and jamming along, and for no apparent reason would go from no problems to extreme lower leg pain that would sometimes even halt a run or at the very least make me not want to run again for several days. Tried two or three different pairs of shoes - Adidas, Nike, something else I forget. Also talked to runner friends, posted here, talked to my doctor, my PT, my MT.... people had ideas, nobody ever hit the nail on the head. this plagued me and kept me from getting back into serious running for years. Like most of a decade, even. Forgot how I'd ever loved running back in academy/military days, and even a couple years after... till I got married and was so busy working (cuz I sure as **** didn't want to be home much after that) I completely gave up all deliberate exercise for several years.

Several attempts at getting back into it netted varied results, but usually ended with this weird, apparently undiagnosable low leg fatigue/pain. Then, just a few months ago, after moving back into the city/civilization, slowly getting back into running again and experiencing new ankle pain I was pretty sure was shoe related, I tried a running shop in my hood - Walk into the joint, two dudes in there:

"What can we do for you?"
"Hopefully fit me a shoe that'll let me run pain free,"
"I bet we can, what kind of pain you having?"
"Well most recently it's my low ankle... but you know, my biggest problem is inexplicable low leg pain right here..." I point to the in-side of my lower left leg..
"Ah, ya, that's your (crap I've never heard of and cant remember what he called it) muscle... controls the curl of your toes. We can fix that."

Walked out of there 20 minutes later with a pair of New Balance Vongo v2s, and have NO PAIN WHEN RUNNING, any distance, now.

jeez..

[redir]

I've maintained my running by doing one 5k a week, usually every Friday after work before I hit the pub :beer:

I'll bump that up to two 5k's after cross season and when the winter hits and it's too cold to ride.

But I cannot even imagine running a marathon, that would seriously kill me.

[scho74]

awesome thanks for the tips everyone! yup, this will be my first marathon so i'm not concerned with time, i just want to finish without killing myself.

i started a nike run club training program thing so i'm hoping 6 months is plenty of time. i'm former military and am so used to running 2 miles for a fast time, that i forget that i need to keep a slow pace for long miles haha. i used to run quite a bit but that was 20 years ago. i've been running daily for the past week and man what a difference 20 years makes...i'm so sore.

i love the fact that i can just throw on my shoes and shorts and head out the door. no bibs, chamois cream, contacts, bike/tire checks, etc. so easy!

[estilley]

I’m back in the running game as well. Crashed on a dusty CX race and had a bit of a reality check that I need to pursue something less risky until I’m out of grad school etc.

I’m excited! But I also topped out at 90 ish miles a week running in college so I might be a little nuts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[redir]

I’m back in the running game as well. Crashed on a dusty CX race and had a bit of a reality check that I need to pursue something less risky until I’m out of grad school etc.

I’m excited! But I also topped out at 90 ish miles a week running in college so I might be a little nuts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Crashing is part of the game. It just means you were going all out! ;)

[Dave Ferris]

Just bumping and feel pretty good about documenting this coming off a fractured pelvis/broken sacrum bone and not running for close to 10 months.

I started back on May 30 and in my fifth week back I got up to 25 miles, running 5 days, with one bike day and Sat. totally off because of the brutal heat we had here in LA.

Looking back at my 2017 log, I hadn't run that high weekly mileage since the week of June 12-18. Man that's a LONG time to be sittin' on the bench.

Running at a super slow pace coming back. But I'm ok with it for right now. Just need to get my endurance back first. Basically I lost it all in the 10 months, in addition to packing on a few pounds. Just turned 65 a few weeks back but feel good and re-energized to be back in the ballgame.

[redir]

It's amazing how fast you loose it right? After ten months I would think it would be like starting all over again. I stopped running now for about 4 months as cycling has ramped up again. I'll pick it up probably mid August again and start back real real slow.

[velofinds]

Just bumping and feel pretty good about documenting this coming off a fractured pelvis/broken sacrum bone and not running for close to 10 months.

I started back on May 30 and in my fifth week back I got up to 25 miles, running 5 days, with one bike day and Sat. totally off because of the brutal heat we had here in LA.

Looking back at my 2017 log, I hadn't run that high weekly mileage since the week of June 12-18. Man that's a LONG time to be sittin' on the bench.

Running at a super slow pace coming back. But I'm ok with it for right now. Just need to get my endurance back first. Basically I lost it all in the 10 months, in addition to packing on a few pounds. Just turned 65 a few weeks back but feel good and re-energized to be back in the ballgame.

If you are running 25 miles per week at the age of 65 I'd say you're doing quite well.

[Dave Ferris]

Yes after 10 months totally off, and even greatly reduced milage from the end of June to August of '17 - it was exactly like stating over.

I had to start with running intervals that were 2 minutes long in duration - even with those I was totally out of breath- and then walk for 5 minutes to recover. I kept working up from there. By week 3 I was finally able to run one mile without stopping --I'm still not at where I can run for 2 miles without a short break. It's been beyond humbling. I have a new appreciation for runners just starting out.

I've been running for around 42 years and it was my longest break that I hadn't run. And yes I know at 65 I'm way ahead of the curve in relation to other friends of mine that stopped in their mid-50s.

I have my share of problem areas but fortunately I'm still able to keep a certain level of quality, without looking too much like I'm doing the old man shuffle out there…lol

If and when it ever gets to that point, I'll probably let it go and just do the bike.

[p nut]

Anyone ever use Altra shoes? Or other zero drop shoes? I've been running with various pairs off and on. My favorite shoe, though, are Salomon S-Lab's, which have about 7-8mm drop.

Just recently, whenever I switch to Altra's, I start having some hip pains. Nothing severe, but they are more tender and I can feel it during the run. I'm guessing this may have to do with the shoes, but it's strange I'd never felt it before.

Guess I will stick to Salomon's for now, but I do like the big toe box and the gaiter attachment points on the Altra's. Plus the new Lone Peak's with ultra aggressive lugs are a dream running down a steep trail.

[cmbicycles]

I think altra recommends starting slowly with their shoes to acclimate to the zero drop. I ran in a pair of older instincts for a while and really liked the shape. I tried some of the newer 2.0 version and they were not as good of a fit, they wore holes in several pairs of socks on longer runs as the toe box was a tad shorter. I would say take it easy in the shoes to start and gradually increase runs as they do work your body differently in my experience.

[p nut]

I think altra recommends starting slowly with their shoes to acclimate to the zero drop. I ran in a pair of older instincts for a while and really liked the shape. I tried some of the newer 2.0 version and they were not as good of a fit, they wore holes in several pairs of socks on longer runs as the toe box was a tad shorter. I would say take it easy in the shoes to start and gradually increase runs as they do work your body differently in my experience.

The thing is, I've had them for quite a while now, granted I've run more in them recently. Maybe I'll back off and not use them as much and see what happens. Then vamp up again after a while.

[AngryScientist]

i'm testing out a pair of Superior 3.5's right now, but i've really been easing into them slowly.

i like to travel in trail runners, as they are very versatile shoes, and certainly easier to bring along than a bike. i've done a few light hikes in my altras also.

i'm not really getting along well with them. i dont feel like they have enough arch support and overall foot retention for me. i wind up with some relatively sore feet muscles after running in them. i'll keep giving them a try though, a little at a time.

i ran in Hoka's for a while, including a few half marathons, but keep coming back to brooks as my favorite running shoes.

funny topic timing. i just got back from buying a few new pairs of running shorts and socks for a california trip i've got coming and not bringing a bike.

[Dave Ferris]

Anyone ever use Altra shoes? Or other zero drop shoes? I've been running with various pairs off and on. My favorite shoe, though, are Salomon S-Lab's, which have about 7-8mm drop.

Just recently, whenever I switch to Altra's, I start having some hip pains. Nothing severe, but they are more tender and I can feel it during the run. I'm guessing this may have to do with the shoes, but it's strange I'd never felt it before.

Guess I will stick to Salomon's for now, but I do like the big toe box and the gaiter attachment points on the Altra's. Plus the new Lone Peak's with ultra aggressive lugs are a dream running down a steep trail.

I alternate days between the Altra Torins and Hoka Bondis. I normally run 6 days a week.

It took me a solid 6 weeks around 2.5 years ago to acclimate to the lower heel drop on both shoes. I had been in the Brooks Dyads for many years before.

Now when I try any traditional running shoe with a 12 mm heel drop, or thereabouts, it feels totally wrong except for just wearing around the house doing watering or gardening.

My only complaint about the Torins - and it's fairly big because it relates to $$$- is the outsole wears very quickly. I'm lucky to get 200 miles out of a pair. So consequently I try to stock up on last year closeouts from Running Warehouse.

Love the shoes for the first 100 miles or so.

[dasein]

About 10 years ago, I continuously had nagging running injuries. Had been running for a good 15 years to that point. Then I began running most of my training runs at an easy pace, like marathon pace. I'd introduce speed work once weekly about 8 weeks before a race. Started using Hokas on the pavement. Been injury free for a decade, and at 50 I'm running 20-25 mies weekly with about 130-150 of riding. Keep it easy, and don't advance the milage much for at least a year. Everyone I know who decided to go from non-runner to marathoner got hurt and quit running.

[p nut]

Thanks, Dave Ferris. Maybe I’m just used to the drop more. Maybe I need to just stop running in anything other than the Altras. I’ve now got about 3 pair of them since I bought them fairly cheap on sale.

Salomon’s have been great, too, but 130 miles in on this pair and looks like I’ve got only a few more runs left in them.

AngryScientist - that is one of the reasons why I kept up on my running. Family vacations when I’ve got the van packed to the hilt. I like just throwing a pair of shoes in rather than setting up the hitch rack, load the bike, pack shoes, helmet, bottles, glasses, gloves, lights, etc.

[Dave Ferris]

Salomon’s have been great, too, but 130 miles in on this pair and looks like I’ve got only a few more runs left in them. .

In my experience with running shoes, going on 42 years now - with the all manufacture's quest to get a light, springy, responsive feeling shoe - the material and build quality is not as robust and long lasting as shoes in the past. Even going back just 15 years ago.

I used to easily get 400 miles to a pair and I was running 40-50 miles a week all through my middle 30s up until my early 50s. Now even with the Hoka Bondi, a $150 top of the line shoe, I'm at 300 miles, at the most.

The market pushes the light , responsive feel and the technology has evolved to still have great cushioning. But it's still at the expense of the longevity of the shoe I feel. Younger runners that have been only running 10-15 years, have never experienced the durability of the older shoes , thus they expect a pair of shoes to be toast in 200 miles. Didn't used to be that way.

[Dave Ferris]

Lacey (my Border Collie) and I were able to get up to 862.21 miles for the first half of this year.

We hit 502 on March 30 for the first quarter but early April, I ran into my first knee problem in 42 years running - x-rays showed patella tendonitis, aka runner's knee. No bone on bone or tears. And then had two cataract surgeries a week apart in early June. On the Doc's recommendation, I chilled a bit during the last few weeks.

So between all that, I fell significantly behind my goal of 2000 miles for the year. Something I was able to do 18 years straight from ages 38 to 56. I just turned 66 on June 17.

And I keep getting s..l ..o..w..e...r. Since I came back from nine months off 14 months ago from a fractured sacrum bone, I've lost a solid 2-3 minutes off my regular mile pace. 11 minute miles are now the norm. Off road and sustained climbing, I'm really slogging. Pace can be 12- 14 minutes depending on the steepness.

Since coming back after the time off, I still haven't made the 3 mile , just under 2000' elevation Beaudry North or Los Flores Motorway climb in the Verdugos, without taking a couple of 60 second breaks. It's always been hard going - been running and riding up there for 22 years - but always was able to grind through it without any breaks.

I'm happy I was at 10:54 pace on this morning's 7 miler, with some formidable hills. Hoping the knee is finally getting a tad better. My turn over was noticeably more efficient this morning.

I was never a really talented, or what was considered a "fast guy" in our in the various running groups I hung out in during my 40s, but I did manage consistent sub 40 minute 10Ks, averaged around 3:20 for most Marathons and had a few good Halves -- a 1:28 PR on a hilly course in San Pedro. And a 3:14 PR at the Long Beach Marathon in 2000 at age 47.

Looking back I couldn't fathom running 11-12 minute miles, even in my early to mid 50s. That was something the really slow, old folks did...lol Well, I guess I'm now a card carrying member. On the other hand, I feel very blessed to be able to keep doing what I'm doing at the level I'm at. Many much more gifted runners then me have had to stop altogether by 66, or sooner.

Looking forward to a solid second half of 2019 for Lacey and I.

[oldpotatoe]

Good for you Dave...I wish I could run again..I really miss it(altho I quit in 1985..achilles tendons said no mas)...Now, after 30+ years, and pretty heavy compared to my running days, not sure I could really get back into it but I'm tempted...
I was always 'built for comfort, not for speed', also..some sub 40 minute 10ks(maybe 1 or 2) but mostly ran 10k/1/2s/marathons all at about the same pace..not fast. 8 minute miles, maybe a little less.
But I'm tempted to walk this fat butt into a local running store, talk to the thin, young sales beanbag..get some shoes, some shorts, and give it a go..:)

[AngryScientist]

Hey that's great Dave!

These days, all my running is super casual. Usual during travel so i dont need to bring any "gear", just running shoes and some sorts.

keep at it. your comfortable pace is great. if you're a runner, you;re a runner.

for Peter above - just grab some new shoes and give it a go! adjust your expectations, go slow, start easy and take plenty of walking breaks. i bet it comes right back. i know you're busy these days with babysitting, etc - a nice running workout can take 20 minutes, so much more time effective than cycling really.

[mass_biker]

Got into competitive cycling (in high school) - mixing in longish rides (for me) over the weekend after Saturday races. And the running got a whole lot better.

I've always tried to mix in some running and cycling. As others have noted, running is just so time efficient, and in crummy/winter weather, running outside is often more preferable than riding outside.

If you travel a lot for work, it is reasonably easy to squeeze a run in to keep your mental sanity/fitness. I find that running enough to enjoy a run in whichever city I'm in is a good enough goal as I get older.

Good running shoes make all the difference though. I'm ~ 5 years into running in Hoka Cliftons. Love those shoes.

Another consideration for us cyclists is the inclusion of some kind of weight bearing exercise as we get older. So between runs ~2-3x/week (more in the winter), and lifting (weekly, year-round), it's a good activity to try to pursue if your body allows it.

m_b

[BobbyJones]

Thanks for sharing Dave.

Your consistency is inspiring.

[Gummee]

I've always found that running helps my riding more than riding helps my running.

M

[redir]

I've since given it up all together since I started this thread over 4 years ago now. I might start back up again this Fall. I think it's a good skill to have. In the summer I would run one 5k per week just to maintain it till winter when I would run maybe 15k per week. A 5k is about all I ever could handle and a fast one for me was 8 minute miles. I ran a few 10k's but they kill me. I am NOT a runner but I think in moderation it's a good thing to do.

[oldpotatoe]

Hey that's great Dave!

These days, all my running is super casual. Usual during travel so i dont need to bring any "gear", just running shoes and some sorts.

keep at it. your comfortable pace is great. if you're a runner, you;re a runner.

for Peter above - just grab some new shoes and give it a go! adjust your expectations, go slow, start easy and take plenty of walking breaks. i bet it comes right back. i know you're busy these days with babysitting, etc - a nice running workout can take 20 minutes, so much more time effective than cycling really.

Gonna give it a go this sunday..have decent, newish shoes, shorts, t-shirt..maybe 10-15 minutes out, turn around..

[redir]

Gonna give it a go this sunday..have decent, newish shoes, shorts, t-shirt..maybe 10-15 minutes out, turn around..

Maybe do a bit of walking in between jogs too ;)

[Dave Ferris]

Maybe do a bit of walking in between jogs too ;)

That's great Peter ! Yes I would intersperse with some walking. When I came back after the 9 month layoff on May 30th of 2018, I wasn't able to run a full mile, without stopping to walk, till my birthday on June 17. Took me another month to work up to 2 miles non-stop.

And if possible try to run on a soft, flat surface. No hills.

Maybe you'll run into Boulder's pride and joy - Benji Durden and his wife.

Wishing you the best starting up again ! Just take it real easy ! :-)

[Dave Ferris]

Well, another year in the books. With today's 7 miler up in the Verdugos, Lacy (my pup) and I totaled 1611 miles for 2020. Down from last year's total of 1921.

A bit disappointing but everything considered-- around 3 weeks out the beginning of the year due to a left knee problem, all the time off in August/Sept. and part of Oct. because of the horrific air from the fires. And throw in just an overall blah feeling the whole year -- I still feel fortunate to be able keep things going at 67, close to 80,000 lifetime miles after 42 years.

No goals for 2021, other then just try to keep running. 🏃🐕

Happy New Year...and a much better one for all of us !

[retropean]

You guys might know, or I might have to go to a doctor/someone?:

I ran 2 marathons about 7 years ago, but after starting an office job and becoming more of a cyclist I no longer can run without pain in the front of my ankle which crops up after about ten minutes. It almost feels like it’s swollen. Is this possibly a flexibility issue, caused by some sort of tightness from cycling?

I’ve been fitted for running shoes at a running store, same problems.

[redir]

Congrats Dave Ferris!

I have not run at all in the last two winters. Since indoor cycling has become at least tolerable thanks to Zwift and other technologies I have preferred that. But I have thought about getting back into it. I think running at least one 5k a week is good for you.

As for pain when running it almost always was the case for me when i tried to bite off more then I could chew. Slow and steady wins the race till you build and build and build up.

[p nut]

Short sleeve shirt and shorts. Must be nice. During my run today (below).

I’ve not fat biked this year and have gone to running snowshoes (Dion). Opens up more terrain than a fat bike.

[tctyres]

Wow! Nice job, Dave!

This year was my biggest year ever. I wouldn't call myself a runner at all. I did 1325 miles, and just over 4000 on the bike. It was my lowest number on the bike in several years, owing to shelter in place and otherwise avoiding the coronavirus.

I'll just echo what others have said in this thread: building up takes time! By October, I was good, and then I was on-and-off in November. I tapered in December. I'll start ramping up in January.

[tkbike]

A disappointing year for me, was hoping to hit 2800 miles. Finished the year at 2601 miles, it took a 17 mile run today in Atlanta to reach that.
I have been traveling for the past 4 weeks which has messed up my running. My runs for the past 4 weeks have been in Youngstown OH, Crossville TN and Atlanta...at least its been warm enough to wear shorts and a tee shirt for every run.
Still disappointing!!!!!

[C40_guy]

and this post pretty much sums up my view on running.
http://semi-rad.com/2017/01/i-hate-running/

[/URL]"

Not quite what I expected, very funny. When I started running six or seven years ago I ran a good number of 5Ks. They were local, they were easy, they were cheap, etc.

But they just don't work for me. I don't get loosened up until I'm about 3-4 miles into a run, and by then, the 5K is over. Turns out my distance is the half marathon, which gives me enough time to shake out my legs, get into a steady routine and then start picking off runners ahead of me in the last couple of miles.

Context is everything. As a lifetime cyclist, I used to be a "not-runner." It looked so uncomfortable, why would anyone want to do it. Then I experienced the conversion...on a business trip, sitting in a hotel, overlooking Central Park, thinking that if I were a runner, I could be exercising now. It helped that my son had just become a pretty serious runner.

So now I'm a runner. And I remember to smile when I run, which makes a huge difference in context. Also, running trails helps. I can't help but smile when I'm running trails. Last year (oh thank god we put that year behind us), I ran almost exclusively on dirt. No actual planned road running, just the 1/4 warmup to the trail, and a single 1/2 mile road run when a trail branch didn't reconnect back to a main trail system.

If you haven't tried trail running yet, leave your MTB or 'cross bike at home next time you go out, and run some trails.

[C40_guy]

Well, another year in the books. With today's 7 miler up in the Verdugos, Lacy (my pup) and I totaled 1611 miles for 2020. Down from last year's total of 1921.

Some years more, some years less. Last year was an unusual one.

Here's a popular running mantra that might be useful:


Every mile is a gift.

[C40_guy]

You guys might know, or I might have to go to a doctor/someone?:

I ran 2 marathons about 7 years ago, but after starting an office job and becoming more of a cyclist I no longer can run without pain in the front of my ankle which crops up after about ten minutes. It almost feels like it’s swollen. Is this possibly a flexibility issue, caused by some sort of tightness from cycling?



If it's not actual pain, but soreness or tightness, you might try running through it. I sometimes get something similar after a couple of miles, but then I loosen up and it goes away.

[retropean]

If it's not actual pain, but soreness or tightness, you might try running through it. I sometimes get something similar after a couple of miles, but then I loosen up and it goes away.

Thanks for the response. It is actual pain, but sometimes if I stop for a couple minutes I can wait for the swell to go down and can then continue with mixed results.