paranoid or not [Archive] - The Paceline Forum

Ken Robb

12-01-2014, 08:33 PM

thwart

12-01-2014, 08:55 PM

Yeah, I don't know about the 'I believe in fate' thing�

I try to ride in less congested areas at off-peak times, and ride defensively.

Everything entails some risk. I think road cycling has a reasonable risk/benefit ratio.

DarkStar

12-01-2014, 09:26 PM

Keep to bike paths and ride like I'm in a war zone.

fogrider

12-01-2014, 09:52 PM

In San Francisco, they have gone cray cray with bike paths and there seems to always be options to get around safely...and I have a knog blinky on my helmet which I leave on most of the time...most of my buddies ride with a blinky light too so it's hard to miss us and most of the road we ride on are pretty windy...pretty tough to drive on without keeping your eyes on the road. I also see news stories of people just driving into peds, so when your number is up...there is no dodging the bullet.

josephr

12-01-2014, 09:59 PM

rbtmcardle

12-01-2014, 10:08 PM

charliedid

12-01-2014, 10:13 PM

Same as it ever was

sand fungus

12-01-2014, 10:14 PM

I have not changed anything and do not plan to, I always ride defensively and have had a Dinotte on my commuter bike from day one. I expect you might get more participation in the poll if you added that as an option.

Kirk007

12-01-2014, 11:26 PM

your poll sucks. I've not changed/altered my habits because of media reports related to incidences with cyclists. I think the numbers of incidences has increased b/c there's a larger number of cyclists and number of drivers than there were 30+ years ago. You should talk to your doctor about low-T.

I've changed my habits because of deaths on the roads I ride, documented by media and witnessed by friends. It matters not if the number of incidences has increased due to more volume riders/drivers; per capita rates don't matter much if your on the paths where this is occurring. To wit: new two way divided bike lane on 2nd Ave in Seattle is an example. Supposed to be safer option to the previous condition. Tragically a rider was killed there a few months ago just before this opened; my friends whose office overlooks that intersection witnessed it. Talked with them today and they estimate that 3/4 cars are blowing through the red bike signals, making left hand turns when bikes have the right of way through the intersection - exactly how the young woman died. Come ride in Seattle traffic everyday josphr; we'll see if your still inferring other riders need a hormone boost or whether you do the prudent thing - adjust your riding to match the conditions.

Steve in SLO

12-01-2014, 11:34 PM

I don't believe in fate but I do believe in managing risk...I optimize what is in my control and go ride.
My only real change lately is to ride with a rear blinky. I've been riding with a viewpoint mirror on my glasses for years, and it has saved my bacon once or twice.

Dead Man

12-01-2014, 11:35 PM

No change. Actually, if anything, I've just become a bit more aggressive about asserting my rights on the road, recently. Having a couple really ridiculous brushes with asshole motorists who take advantage of my consideration, I don't ride on the shoulder unless it's perfect, anymore. If it varies between ridable and unridable, I just take the lane. I'd rather them be pissed at me than hit me trying to squeeze past, which has now finally happened.

When it comes to distracted driving and getting creamed by a texting teenager.... Nope. Not gonna let the terrorists win. I LOVE to ride, and roads are where road bikes get ridden.

Tony

12-01-2014, 11:36 PM

Remember the words of Leo F. Buscaglia: "The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live."

Louis

12-01-2014, 11:45 PM

i haven't changed anything and i don't have a road id. This choice is not available. Seems like there is some bias here.

+1

54ny77

12-01-2014, 11:50 PM

Somehow I don't think ol' Leo was talking about riding a bike on PCH bike lane (what little there is) in Malibu on a sunny Saturday afternoon.

:p

Remember the words of Leo F. Buscaglia: "The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live."

christian

12-02-2014, 05:24 AM

I haven't made any change. Well, I started MTBing a bit more because MTBing is fun.

oldpotatoe

12-02-2014, 06:08 AM

Nope, I am not living my life in fear of what might happen. If I get hit from behind hopefully I live long enough to test drive some of those fancy machines the hospitals spent millions on. :banana:

Neither have I and I have been hit from behind while riding..pay your money, take your chances. You can 'what if' yourself right out of riding alltogether.

I generally ride where there is a shoulder. I don't ride on those roads without them during the week(trucks, big trucks altho they are some of the best drivers, IMHO). BUT the object of the ride is the ride. I don't really care where, and I don't care if I ride the same route.

As jlwdm said, need another choice. I don't ride in fear, I don't wear a road ID..as if it's inevitable that some ambulance tech will be looking at it.

Gummee

12-02-2014, 06:44 AM

Same as it ever was

Yes and no around here.

I live out in (what used to be) cow fields. Civilization has caught up to rural Prince William Co and there's a ton more traffic on all the little farm roads that used to see an occasional car.

More rats in the cage as it were. That leads to more interactions. Most are still OK with the occasional idiot passing too closely or in an unsafe spot.

I just wish people would drive like they want to be treated. Failing that, drive like there's a family member on the road with them.

M

Tony T

12-02-2014, 07:16 AM

I don't wear a road ID..as if it's inevitable that some ambulance tech will be looking at it.

I use a road ID. Not for the tech, and not for myself.
If I'm unconscious and in a hospital 4 towns away without ID it could be days before a family member tracked down my location � I wouldn't want them to go through that.

DRZRM

12-02-2014, 07:22 AM

Honestly I do ride differently than I used to, maybe because I have kids now.

I commute with lights front and rear and generally will take a bike path over the road, though I think the Memorial Drive bike path in Cambridge is more dangerous than riding in traffic there (tons of runners and bikers, surface a mess).

Like Christian, I'm also more likely to ride my MTB or a CX bike on trails, but that has a lot to do with the fact that I like riding trails.

When I ride road, I take traffic into consideration, I usually ride out into the suburbs away from the city, and use a rear blinky. I don't think this is a direct response to recent accidents/deaths, there have always been a lot of car vs. bike accidents, and I generally feel like social media and forums like this just share that information better (I'm not claiming that this is true, that's just the way I've interpreted it).

So, yes and no, I don't see a poll response that quite fits.

oldpotatoe

12-02-2014, 07:27 AM

I use a road ID. Not for the tech, and not for myself.
If I'm unconscious and in a hospital 4 towns away without ID it could be days before a family member tracked down my location � I wouldn't want them to go through that.

To be honest, I have considered a road ID. When I got nailed, I was out for 15 minutes and was "John Doe', until the ER doc recognized me. When I came to I was in post concussion, la-la land and wouldn't give them my name.

Wish it were a little less 'thick', I guess. I understand the idea that it needs to stay on when you get smacked by a car. Being tied to Leipheimer doesn't thrill me either.

cash05458

12-02-2014, 07:28 AM

well, I have been riding for about 27 years now in all sorts of different stuff...I always assumed Riding in itself will always be dangerous...but I haven't changed anything and I don't know if it is anymore dangerous now than before, just more publicity (which can be a good thing hopefully)...sure, I ride, and always have ridden defensively...speeding 4000 pound vehicles brings that out in you...but I don't do anything different at all...riding is dangerous and there is no getting round that...there isn't anything that will ever stop me from riding (if that is to be helped...if not, then so be it...)

shovelhd

12-02-2014, 07:28 AM

I also don't like the choices but there was only one option that did not involve significant change. I ride and train, often hard, on public roads during peak commuting hours. I choose my roads carefully, ride in the shoulder, and I am hyper aware of my surroundings. When I eventually retire from racing I expect to get a mountain bike to add to the mix. I am also thinking about trying a helmet mirror on the left side, more for medical reasons than paranoia.

weisan

12-02-2014, 07:40 AM

I am hyper aware of my surroundings. ..

+1 There is no substitute for that. On top of being smart about things.
You can only do what you can. Don't get overly worried about things that you have no control over.

unterhausen

12-02-2014, 07:57 AM

I'm a little paranoid. But I think some of these issues are overblown. Most people are not irresponsible, and even the people that text do it when they are pretty sure it is safe. So actually, if there are good sight lines on your route, that might be more of an issue.

BITD, we were paranoid about people fussing around with audio tapes. If there were really a lot of people driving out of control while texting, there would be a lot of crashes on two lane roads. There are a few, but there always have been crashes.

Chris

12-02-2014, 08:06 AM

I've been considering it. It isn't just about being aware. You can't say that things haven't changed. On the way home (I live in the country) it is a daily occurrence to watch cars drift across the center while someone is looking at their phone. It's just a matter of time, statistically speaking, until everything lines up right behind one of us. A friend has gotten one of those mirrors and says that helps a lot. I don't know that there are a lot of evasive moves to make when a car swerves directly behind you, but maybe so. I've started running more. At least going against traffic I feel like I have a fighting chance.

sandyrs

12-02-2014, 08:06 AM

No change here, but I have family in southern Westchester and when I visit them, I do spend a lot of time on the south county / north county trail, north of Kensico lake, or over the CT border on Greenwich back roads. The only issues I've had with drivers have been south of White Plains and east of Sprain Brook parkway, ie precisely where you live.

FlashUNC

12-02-2014, 08:14 AM

To be honest, I have considered a road ID. When I got nailed, I was out for 15 minutes and was "John Doe', until the ER doc recognized me. When I came to I was in post concussion, la-la land and wouldn't give them my name.

Wish it were a little less 'thick', I guess. I understand the idea that it needs to stay on when you get smacked by a car. Being tied to Leipheimer doesn't thrill me either.

I've got their dog tag version. Just a single dog tag with all the particulars on it. Pretty easy for the EMTs to find if they really need it. And since its just one, doesn't clink around when you've got the jersey unzipped on a hot day.

Way better than the wrist one imo. Cheaper too.

druptight

12-02-2014, 08:21 AM

I haven't changed anything and I don't have a road ID. This choice is not available. Seems like there is some bias here.

Jeff

This. Maybe you should change the snarkly title of the last choice to just "I have not changed my riding habits"

rbtmcardle

12-02-2014, 08:34 AM

druptight

12-02-2014, 09:16 AM

I dont think I can change the poll... and frankly just wanted to start a discussion... the reality is that I will continue to ride on the road, in other areas I would have no hesitation to go ride at any time of day, generally now I ride only in the mornings, as afternoon traffic is just too crazy.

Fair enough. Since I commute by bike, I'm in the thick of it without much choice. I do all I can to ride the safest of my possible road choices, pay as much attention as possible to my surroundings at all times, be as visible as possible, and make the best decisions I can to avoid sketchy situations. The same applies for my more general road riding, but I definitely try to stick to safer areas in that case and avoid traffic when possible. I don't own a mountain bike.

rugbysecondrow

12-02-2014, 09:21 AM

I was much less concerned about my chances of being killed or injured riding my bikes BEFORE my motorcycle accident on 7/6/14. I was taken out by a car at about 50mph while wearing an armored jacket and gloves and a full-face helmet. Nine hours of surgery, lots of ti plates nd screws, 5 weeks in the hospital with excruciating pain and I'm still doing physical therapy to regain range of motion and strength. I think about it every day. Any one who doesn't weigh the risk/reward aspect of riding is naive or foolish. I'm not saying we should all quit but we should all seriously consider potential consequences of every ride. I used to love descending at 45-50mph but now I get sweaty palms just thinking about how that might lead to me sliding along the pavement on shorts and a jersey. :eek:

The gist, riding is one of many activities enjoy doing, and it isn't at the top of the list. I have changed my habits some and I try to be aware of where I ride, when and other conditions. Frankly, I am not worried about being killed, I am concerned with being disabled not being able to care for my family but having to be cared for (see Ken's note above), and being unable to participate in other activities I enjoy. I think it is the catastrophic nature of accidents on bikes. The fact that I have to trust that everybody else on the road will do the right thing is becoming more of mindset I am less and less inclined to overcome.

I still enjoy riding, I have my routes I stick to, but I am going to ride more MTB this spring and spend more time in the woods. I can still get hurt, have accidents etc, but I don't have to worry about texters, cell phones, teenage drivers, or just plain ol' accidents.

bobswire

12-02-2014, 09:23 AM

Yeah, I don't know about the 'I believe in fate' thing…

I try to ride in less congested areas at off-peak times, and ride defensively.

Everything entails some risk. I think road cycling has a reasonable risk/benefit ratio.

Spot on, though I chose the "fate" scenario for lack of a better response.

I still enjoy riding, I have my routes I stick to, but I am going to ride more MTB this spring and spend more time in the woods. I can still get hurt, have accidents etc, but I don't have to worry about texters, cell phones, teenage drivers, or just plain ol' accidents.

Instead you'll have be worried about bears,mountain lions, snakes,skunks and other assorted vermin not to mention getting lost,no cell service in case of accident and careless no fear teenage mountain bikers. :)

Tony T

12-02-2014, 09:37 AM

To be honest, I have considered a road ID. When I got nailed, I was out for 15 minutes and was "John Doe', until the ER doc recognized me. When I came to I was in post concussion, la-la land and wouldn't give them my name.

Wish it were a little less 'thick', I guess. I understand the idea that it needs to stay on when you get smacked by a car. Being tied to Leipheimer doesn't thrill me either.

As long as you carry some ID with you (not just in a phone which can be damages), it doesn't need to be Road ID�.
All I have with me for ID when I ride is a cell phone and my Road ID (no wallet).

oldpotatoe

12-02-2014, 11:13 AM

As long as you carry some ID with you (not just in a phone which can be damages), it doesn't need to be Road ID�.
All I have with me for ID when I ride is a cell phone and my Road ID (no wallet).

Now I carry phone only. Road ID looks like a good Xmas present, wear when I ride, type thing. Ok I give.

johnmdesigner

12-02-2014, 11:53 AM

My biggest enemy isn't paranoia but discouragement. It's a shame that you are made to feel like a criminal every time you go out for a ride.
I have also stopped looking at all these negative articles.
Being on the street here is inherently risky. Lately I've had more close calls when I was in the crosswalk with the light than I have on the bike. Drivers here have become more aggressive and since they are rarely punished for their recklessness have no reason to change their behavior.
Riding here just isn't that enjoyable for me anymore. But I keep doing it because if I stop then they have won. And I hate to lose.;)

AgilisMerlin

12-02-2014, 01:16 PM

Paranormal or not �

rwsaunders

12-02-2014, 01:31 PM

I assume that I'm invisible to motorists and I use front and rear lights regardless of the time of day. I also typically ride early in the mornings where my biggest fear is hitting an animal or swallowing a bee. I avoid riding in the shoulder as I follow the "stay on the left side of the white line" rule. I find that cars actually give me more room this way as the shoulders around here range from three feet to nothing.

I have to believe that brighter clothes make a bit of a difference and Rapha and Castelli have helped to make construction worker fluro colors cool for the cyclist. Quite frankly, all of this doesn't mean jack if a texting and distracted motorist is barreling down the road, unaware of what lies ahead. That's the risk I take.

AgilisMerlin

12-02-2014, 01:33 PM

I worry, a little, about the deer that walk run amble skurry plod - in front of me, while riding

For me, I don't think about the cars around me, I ripped my face off on a bridge cable/gate with headphones - listening to music

Btw // while waiting for a room in the er, a nun was sitting in front of me, figuring out what looked like a crossword puzzle. She turned and smiled at me while I was holding my face.

Love that hospital

K

spiderman

12-02-2014, 01:33 PM

A few years ago I was hit from behind
While riding fixed and ruined a nice atmos
...mildly concussive event...
Last valentines day I was hit head on
By a driver that never looked up
...I'm kinda out of the bike commuting mood
And still ride daily but stick to the trails lately
Much more than ever before

AgilisMerlin

12-02-2014, 01:52 PM

A neighbor, Greece, collided with me and my bicycle

I held her hand a couple times to calm her down

Then I had her hold my upper arm, I thought it was broken

For whatever reason

I told her to relax'

Police, poss frame misalignment

Got to work

A chef threw me a piece of chocolate on the upper deck of the establishment

I knew, at that moment, no concussion, when I caught the chunk

I used to ride with a Chevy/gt jersey down south

Conform to your environment, or not

Who knows

All the luck

K

AgilisMerlin

12-02-2014, 01:53 PM

Oh, the family is Greek

They run a Greek rest.

K

Ken Robb

12-02-2014, 02:12 PM

Now I carry phone only. Road ID looks like a good Xmas present, wear when I ride, type thing. Ok I give.

Hey, we can probably find some old dog tags to wear, right? :banana:

rugbysecondrow

12-02-2014, 03:18 PM

Hey, we can probably find some old dog tags to wear, right? :banana:

For a while I was going to get a tattoo with my name and blood type on my chest. That idea lost steam, but might have merit.

Cheers

Paul

carpediemracing

12-02-2014, 05:00 PM

I've got their dog tag version. Just a single dog tag with all the particulars on it. Pretty easy for the EMTs to find if they really need it. And since its just one, doesn't clink around when you've got the jersey unzipped on a hot day.

Way better than the wrist one imo. Cheaper too.

FYI in the one fatality I've ever been around the rider had the dog tag RoadID. Because they did the neck brace thing, because they couldn't move his head much, they didn't know he had it until he was in surgery in the hospital. Until that point they had no idea who he was, who to notify, etc. At my first visit to the hospital, about 5 hours post crash, there was no one there. Second visit, 10 hours post crash, there were 5 people there. The first few hours everyone was frantically trying to figure out who to call.

I got myself (or rather, the Missus got me) a wrist one. I wear it even when I'm not riding.

BumbleBeeDave

12-02-2014, 05:04 PM

. . . but I just consider them prudent safety precautions.

I now ride with a rear light all the time, even in daylight. I just automatically put it on the bike and turn it on, even if I'm just going on the bike trail. L&M 180 Micro. It's super bright. If I'm doing a night ride I generally avoid riding on main streets if I'm, solo. I'll do the bike trail or ride the roads if a few buddies are with me also with lights.

I always wear a helmet and have for almost 30 years. In 2010 it saved my life, but that crash was my own fault. It didn't involve another vehicle.

I have a Road ID dog tag that gets worn religiously (printed info, not just the one where the EMT has to call some number to get the info).

I also always carry my drivers license and med insurance card in my jersey pocket.

There are some local roads I just avoid. Having lived in this area for over 20 years, I just know by now they are too busy and/or narrow shoulders for my taste. If I'm going to be riding in a strange place while on vacation I've found Google Street view to be invaluable in checking out local roads if they are on there.

I've also learned to be hyper aware and look around--a lot. But that's not that different from the past. The guy who taught me how to ride back in Oklahoma 30 years ago told me to always assume every driver is going to hit me and to make eye contact--and then STILL assume they are going to hit me and act accordingly.

I don't really consider this stuff paranoid. It's just reality. Take prudent precautions and don't take stupid chances. Every year thousands of cars pass me without a problem . . . but it only takes ONE to end it.

BBD

carpediemracing

12-02-2014, 05:06 PM

Today I drove behind a car (okay, it was a CRV so an SUV) for about 20 minutes while it jerked left and right, unpredictably and more than a few feet. At the one light where I could get close enough to it I saw the driver peering over to the right pretty intently. I'm guessing a phone/text thing.

This drive was on my normal loop. The CRV was tailgating another sort of tall vehicle, maybe 15-20 feet (one car length gap) at 35-55+ mph (posted 30-45 mph). There's no way the CRV driver could have seen something like a rider in any sort of reasonable time, and a jerk the wrong way would have been catastrophic. A few times I backed off because I couldn't believe how close the CRV was to roadside stuff (guardrail, curb, etc) and I thought the car would crash.

If the weather is nice and I'm motivated then I'll go out. If it's not (like it's too hot) or if it's a bit busy out, like rush hour, then I'll ride the trainer.

For me I ride to race, or at least to go fast in tight but controlled situations. Last year I had a bunch of weeks where my only ride was a race and others where my other ride was either another race or a trainer ride.

cash05458

12-02-2014, 05:43 PM

I don't do the rear light or the little dental mirror to see em sweeping me up...I don't want to see it from behind to be honest...but then again, I don't wear a helmet and have never...like Old Potatoe I think: "you buy your ticket..." and get in the game...riding is and always has been dangerous....that said, I am unmarried, no children...I can't imagine riding without a helmet if I had kids...or a wife who would miss me...but I guess I have been "lucky" that way to be 50 and never married ect...I say that with abit of cynicism so don't get offended guys~! But I honestly doubt road accidents are really way up with bikers...I think it just gets more attention...I mean, yeah folks text now...for years, it was drunk driving...and there are loads more cops everywhere...so show me a study that actually says riding on the road is any more dangerous now than 20 years ago...and one that factors in the huge increase in folks riding over last 15 years or so...ratio wise I mean...I really doubt it...I would be interested...

it's like this I think...and it may be a terrible analogy and I mean no offense...but everyone with kids is now very aware about the nut picking up their kid somewhere and killing them...every parent worries about this and is very protective...actual facts say that this used to happen ALOT more in the happy day 50's in terms of actual per child risk...

Kirk007

12-02-2014, 06:14 PM

so show me a study that actually says riding on the road is any more dangerous now than 20 years ago...and one that factors in the huge increase in folks riding over last 15 years or so...ratio wise I mean...I really doubt it...I would be interested...

I may be a bit slower today than normal, but this concept - that what we are reacting to is greater reporting of incidents and more incidents due to more folks riding - I'm struggling with it.

Take commuting in Seattle: If we assume that 1 in 50 drivers is inattentive and a true risk, and that has remained constant over the past 20 years (which seems unlikely but I've give on this one) - whether from alcohol, music, now cell phones and texting - but the total number of cars traveling along a given route at any given time has doubled or tripled or more (not our of the realm of reason for Seattle), hasn't my relative risk increased regardless of how many other cyclists are on the road?

If I'm out in the countryside with low volume traffic on a pleasure ride, then I'm inclined to be more in agreement with the same as it ever was view. But the reality for many of us living in cities is that, unless we want to put the bike on or in the car and drive it to the country, you will be navigating in the city if you ride on a regular basis. In the City the total volume of traffic has increased; bus traffic has increased, pedestrians have increased, cyclists have increased, time constraints and pressures have increased, impatience leading to road rage has increased, the likelihood of someone texting in-between stoplights downtown has to be much greater than the likelihood of a drunk driver downtown during busy periods - all these factors have increased in the past 30 years in downtown Seattle creating a more distracted and chaotic environment.

I can be just as aware now as I was twenty years ago. I can adorn my bike with blinky lights and wear florescent reflective materials - there is a lot I can do to make myself more visible and hope that it all works (which is what I do). But even with all that, there's no denying that for me, the stakes have been raised and its a more nervous ride at certain times and certain places than it used to be. Conservation biologists are documenting how the mere return of apex predators to ecosystems, like wolves, changes the behavior of prey species - the ecology of fear. It seems to me that much the same is happening with how urban cyclists - at least those of us who are old enough to realize that we aren't invisible - are reacting to urban transportation systems in 2014.

cash05458

12-02-2014, 06:27 PM

I may be a bit slower today than normal, but this concept - that what we are reacting to is greater reporting of incidents and more incidents due to more folks riding - I'm struggling with it.

Take commuting in Seattle: If we assume that 1 in 50 drivers is inattentive and a true risk, and that has remained constant over the past 20 years (which seems unlikely but I've give on this one) - whether from alcohol, music, now cell phones and texting - but the total number of cars traveling along a given route at any given time has doubled or tripled or more (not our of the realm of reason for Seattle), hasn't my relative risk increased regardless of how many other cyclists are on the road?

If I'm out in the countryside with low volume traffic on a pleasure ride, then I'm inclined to be more in agreement with the same as it ever was view. But the reality for many of us living in cities is that, unless we want to put the bike on or in the car and drive it to the country, you will be navigating in the city if you ride on a regular basis. In the City the total volume of traffic has increased; bus traffic has increased, pedestrians have increased, cyclists have increased, time constraints and pressures have increased, impatience leading to road rage has increased, the likelihood of someone texting in-between stoplights downtown has to be much greater than the likelihood of a drunk driver downtown during busy periods - all these factors have increased in the past 30 years in downtown Seattle creating a more distracted and chaotic environment.

I can be just as aware now as I was twenty years ago. I can adorn my bike with blinky lights and wear florescent reflective materials - there is a lot I can do to make myself more visible and hope that it all works (which is what I do). But even with all that, there's no denying that for me, the stakes have been raised and its a more nervous ride at certain times and certain places than it used to be. Conservation biologists are documenting how the mere return of apex predators to ecosystems, like wolves, changes the behavior of prey species - the ecology of fear. It seems to me that much the same is happening with how urban cyclists - at least those of us who are old enough to realize that we aren't invisible - are reacting to urban transportation systems in 2014.

listen...you may be entirely right...of course...I have no idea evidence wise...just my gut feeling...when I started riding in early 80's thing were tough on the roads you know...that is all I mean...people were nasty with their cars...and this could come down to something as simple as population increase and more vehicles ect...but I think you will find the roads are certainly better policed since then...i.e. more cops everywhere...not a great thing to me to be honest as I don't like a big force like that...but I also live in Vermont, on an island...with great roads and most folks know me...so riding seems safer than I ever imagined...I could see it being very different in other parts of the country...but I still see no evidence that NOW is actually unsafer...not trying to pick a point here...but sometimes things like "texting"...bad teens and driving ect...the old "things are so much worse now than in the heyday " stuff...just so much fluff in reality...but yeah, city riding? no way in hell to be honest but that was true 25 years ago when I left Boston...

Kirk007

12-02-2014, 07:02 PM

city riding? no way in hell to be honest but that was true 25 years ago when I left Boston...

probably what Seattle is like now! Would love to ride in Vermont sometime, city life is wearing but its my lot for now.

I suspect that if I still lived in Eugene I'd be of the same view as you, although Gasman might tell me things have changed the past few years even in the bucolic Willamette Valley!

gdw

12-02-2014, 07:25 PM

Here's the latest stats:

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/pedestrians-and-bicyclists/fatalityfacts/bicycles

Fatalities have dropped over the years as the number of cyclists have increased.

Ken Robb

12-02-2014, 07:40 PM

I wonder how much increased use of helmets and better trauma care have affected fatal cycling accidents. We can't assume that everyone would agree that dying is the worst possible outcome of a severe crash.

Vonruden

12-02-2014, 07:56 PM

I just ride a brighter Bike

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj533/vonruden1/25BB908C-73EC-499E-96CD-520F0190887A_zpsyansrlyy.jpg

gasman

12-02-2014, 09:30 PM

Here's the latest stats:

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/pedestrians-and-bicyclists/fatalityfacts/bicycles

Fatalities have dropped over the years as the number of cyclists have increased.

Well looking at the study the number of male bicyclists over the age of 20 that have died has increased from just under 200 in 1975 to just over 500 in 2012. That's not a decrease for most of our population here on the forum. Now we don't know what the denominator is but I suspect it was quite a bit smaller in 1975. When I was riding then there were a lot fewer bicyclists around.

Kirk007-I think Eugene was worse for bicyclists in 1975 than now. I used to get yelled at to ride on the sidewalk. People seem to be more respectful of bicyclists in 2014 and the city has continued it's efforts to improve bike lanes and crossings on some major streets. More to do but it's better. Still, I always ride with lots of vigilance, and my blinky.

rugbysecondrow

12-03-2014, 08:25 AM

it's like this I think...and it may be a terrible analogy and I mean no offense...but everyone with kids is now very aware about the nut picking up their kid somewhere and killing them...every parent worries about this and is very protective...actual facts say that this used to happen ALOT more in the happy day 50's in terms of actual per child risk...

I understand what you are saying, it is real vs. percieved risk...but there is still risk. While mountain biking, what is the chance I get hit like Ken by an inattentive driver going 50MPH? What about road riding? Do I enjoy cycling so much that I am willing to accept that risk?

It is a very personal decision, but part of the problem is that we all know somebody who has been hit, hurt, maybe killed riding their bikes. That is not so much that boogie man, it hits home and make you reassess your risk tolerance.

For me, riding less is not a huge loss as I have plenty of other activities I enjoy, so there is no void for me. For other folks, cycling is less of an activity and more of a lifestyle, they have the opportunity to make their own decisions.

Cheers!

Paul

Dave Ferris

12-03-2014, 09:50 AM

I don't ride everyday like many on here, weather permitting. But agonized over spending big bucks on a road or mountain bike the last year.

Ended up with a Potts 29er , simply because the LA traffic is getting more intense - even in the fairly mellow area of North East Glendale / La Canada/ Pasadena Rose Bowl vicinity- where I would do all my road riding.

Also two different Verdugo Mountain trails are within 1 & 1.7 miles from my house. That played a big part in my decision. Plus I just dig riding on trails as it's an extension of running on them.

It's a steep climb up the Verdugo fire roads and on days I'm just not feelin' it., I will take the Potts out on the well thought out side streets and tool around for an hour to 90 minutes.

Even though someone who's going to hit you from behind doesn't know or care if it's a mtn or road bike- I generally feel more at ease and less stressed on the Potts 29er then on my Litespeed Classic.

I do ride the road but usually only on Saturdays or Sundays. And again within a very controlled *take the side street* mentality.

I understand the roadie thinking of - I'm gonna ride wherever and whenever I want , damn the cars. I'm simply not passionate enough about road cycling to share that same hardcore attitude.

However, if my main sport wasn't running, and all bikes weren't merely a cross-training tool for me, I very well might share the roadie perspective and embrace the overall lifestyle that goes with it..

I do wish we had dirt/gravel roads here where one could take a cross bike/gravel grinder out for a 20 mile spin. That appeals to me much more then all extreme down hils and technical stuff that goes with mtn. biking.

Mark McM

12-04-2014, 12:47 PM

The latest round of posts and news regarding distracted driving and accidents has me seriously considering a drastic change to my riding habits. The area I live is very congested with notoriously impatient and discourteous drivers.

Statistics show that road cycling over the past few decades has become less dangerous, not more dangerous. If you are considering changing your riding habits due to recent reports on road dangers, it is an indication that you are becoming more paranoid, not that road cycling is any more dangerous.

What has changed over the last few years isn't actual dangers on the road, but an increase in communications about road crashes/injuries. The wider spread and sheer volume of stories about road crashes/injuries may give an impression that cycling is more dangerous today, even when in fact it may actually be less dangerous.

shovelhd

12-04-2014, 12:57 PM

Dead Man

12-04-2014, 01:05 PM

Statistics don't accurately represent driver aggression. That's the difference I see in the last five years. I have a lot more close calls. So maybe the statistics may say less dangerous but maybe they are a lagging indicator.

Have the roads become more congested in the last 5 years?

I live where I live and do what I do. But traffic has actually improved around the Portland Metro area in the last decade. Despite more people on the roads, extended high-volume hours (rush "hour" is now more like rush "3 hours"), the bike infrastructure has progressed with some pretty good traffic management improvements. There are really very few roads where cyclists and motorists can have major conflicts, and the city has an overall cyclist friendly attitude that conditions folks to have more patience for cyclists than they would have otherwise, even if they're not bike-friendly people. They just expect it, experience it frequently, and deal with it better.

So while I'm sure it's entirely possible bike-motorist interaction has gotten MORE hostile in some places, I think it's gotta vary a lot city to city, and I'd surely hope and like to think that most cities are improving things.

Seramount

12-04-2014, 01:10 PM

ride less...?

hardly, setting a record high number of miles this year.

I like the challenge of riding in traffic, keeps the senses sharp.

shovelhd

12-04-2014, 01:22 PM

I live in a rural/suburban area where most roads other than state roads have no shoulder. We have MUPs but they are too heavily populated to do anything but interrupted recovery on.

kevinvc

12-04-2014, 05:12 PM

I'm an everyday bike commuter and my main route is in the midst of a major transformation. The city is trying a whole new concept on a one-way street placing the bike lane on the left side of the road and some forced mixing with left turning vehicles. There's also a ton of new construction going on, which means poor sight-lines and occasional fencing blocking part of the lane. It's an absolute cluster right now and I'm not particularly optimistic that it will be much better even once all of the work and striping is done.

I was reading on a local bike blog this morning that a cyclist was hit by a car during the evening commute yesterday (fortunately no serious injuries). It made me decide to take my alternate route home when I leave work this evening since it will be dark and raining heavily. Then I read that a cyclist was hit by a car on that route this morning. My third route is undergoing street re-paving and is all torn up, so that's unrideable for now. I'll just have to make a choice and be even more hyper-aware than usual.

All said, I feel pretty safe when riding around here. That goes for both in-town commuting and faster training rides throughout the area. After a while you learn the places to avoid when possible and where you need to be extra aware and defensive. Still, I know plenty of extremely experienced riders who have been hit through no fault of their own; there's always that possibility.

In the end though, in my 5 years of regular riding I've lost 30 pounds, have much less seasonal depression and my arthritic knees, back and neck feel better than they have in over 20 years. So yeah, I think riding has been an overall health benefit for me.

jimoots

12-04-2014, 06:13 PM

I haven't changed anything and I don't have a road ID. This choice is not available. Seems like there is some bias here.

Jeff

Totally agree, humans are tribal and as such atrocious at managing risk when bad news is constantly blasted at us.

This is an absurd poll.

Dead Man

12-04-2014, 06:37 PM

Still, I know plenty of extremely experienced riders who have been hit through no fault of their own; there's always that possibility.

My buddy lives close-in NW (17th & Everet) and works down town... has about a 4 mile round-trip commute... and has been hit three times in the last year. All minor... but sheesh

Kirk007

12-05-2014, 12:29 AM

Statistics show that road cycling over the past few decades has become less dangerous, not more dangerous. If you are considering changing your riding habits due to recent reports on road dangers, it is an indication that you are becoming more paranoid, not that road cycling is any more dangerous.

What has changed over the last few years isn't actual dangers on the road, but an increase in communications about road crashes/injuries. The wider spread and sheer volume of stories about road crashes/injuries may give an impression that cycling is more dangerous today, even when in fact it may actually be less dangerous.

I disagree, not that statistics may say what they say, but that they have little if any relevance to real world decisions by riders. Statistics blah, blah, blah. Unless those statistics apply to where I ride they are meaningless to me and I think the same is true for any rider. It doesn't matter a wit to me if its safer overall in Portland or Boulder or Des Moines or the United States or China. What matters to me is it is safer where I ride and where I am exposed to significant traffic most of the time, which is to/from and through downtown Seattle. I don't need statistics to tell me what I know from riding regularly now, and having ridden regularly on the same streets a decade ago. I don't need statistics to tell me what I see everyday as a rider and a car driver and bus passenger.

You can choose to pay attention to what is happening around you and make changes as you deem prudent or you can say "I ride my bike where and when and how I want and I'm not changing." Everyone is free to make that choice and live with the consequences, have at it. I suspect there are many places where it is same as it ever was or perhaps even safer, but to leap from experiences in that environment to blanket statements that riding your bike is safer today is too big a leap for me.