Wider Pedal Axles to Cure Chainstay Bashing

[Uncle Jam's Army]

So I have a new frameset with flared chainstays that is causing my left heel to hit my chainstay a few times each ride. It is annoying. Thinking about getting the Dura Ace 9000 pedals with the 4mn longer axel. Wondering if the longer Q factor will mess me up on my other two bikes with regular Dura Ace pedals. Any insights you can offer?

[pbarry]

Hmm, if that were my frame, I'd try rotating the cleats away from the bb a smidge before messing with the Q. Especially since heel strike is not happening frequently. Marking the current cleat position with a fine tip Sharpie, before making a change, is always good.

[dvs cycles]

My Santana Tandem has a much wider Q-factor than my singles and doesn't seem to bother me any. Just feels different for a few minutes. YMMV.

[Charles M]

NOPE...

You may just be trading an already incorrect fit for a worse fit...

If you're set right, your feet likely wouldnt track like that (hitting) in the case the frame is fairly standard.

If your ankles are turning in on the upstroke, you might be reaching too far and or have a cant issue and or...

They're still going to want to turn in only now they're be twisting your tib-fib and ankle even further with the pushed out axle.


Go see someone that knows their stuff.

[rustychisel]

NOPE...

You may just be trading an already incorrect fit for a worse fit...

If you're set right, your feet likely wouldnt track like that (hitting) in the case the frame is fairly standard.

If your ankles are turning in on the upstroke, you might be reaching too far and or have a cant issue and or...

They're still going to want to turn in only now they're be twisting your tib-fib and ankle even further with the pushed out axle.


Go see someone that knows their stuff.


+ 1

A wider 'Q' is unlikely to be too noticable, but it doesn't fix the issue.

[Peter P.]

I'm with pbarry. I think you're overthinking the solution to your problem. Rotating the cleats a smidge should give you the heel clearance without causing any knee issues or lightening your wallet.

If you had Speedplay cleats you could easily make this adjustment.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

I've run the same cleat for many years now with no issue until I obtained a new (to me) Ti frameset that has these ultra beefy 1-inch chainstays that are really flared out. I tried moving the cleat to kick my heel out a bit so that it is almost dead center and clears the stay comfortably, but that caused knee pain. my gait is naturally heel in a bit.

Again, this is not an issue with my other bikes, only this new one. Just wondering if the change in Q factor will mess me up moving between bikes.

[CunegoFan]

I have a sloppy right foot that can contact the chainstay on my ti bike. What helped me was going to gray or black cleats so there was less float.

[John H.]

Try riding with a couple pedal washers before you spend the $ on different pedals.
I think you can ride with 3mm of spacers.

[pbarry]

I've run the same cleat for many years now with no issue until I obtained a new (to me) Ti frameset that has these ultra beefy 1-inch chainstays that are really flared out. I tried moving the cleat to kick my heel out a bit so that it is almost dead center and clears the stay comfortably, but that caused knee pain. my gait is naturally heel in a bit.

Again, this is not an issue with my other bikes, only this new one. Just wondering if the change in Q factor will mess me up moving between bikes.

UJA, you've definitely put time and thought into your fit. Good to know the additional info. Of course you already tried the obvious. You may end up lowering your saddle height a wee bit to accommodate the wider Q.

If the wider axles/washers don't work, a good frame builder can dimple the chain stays easily to clear your heels.

Try riding with a couple pedal washers before you spend the $ on different pedals.
I think you can ride with 3mm of spacers.

Excellent idea.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

I have a sloppy right foot that can contact the chainstay on my ti bike. What helped me was going to gray or black cleats so there was less float.

Yeah, I thought of this. I'm on blue SPD-SL cleats with 1 degree float. And like you mention, I only strike when I get sloppy. Thinking of locking out the cleat completely, but not sure my knees can handle it. Took a while to go from yellow to blue. Margin for error pretty much disappears.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

Try riding with a couple pedal washers before you spend the $ on different pedals.
I think you can ride with 3mm of spacers.

John, would that be on both sides, or just the left pedal?

[ultraman6970]

you can put a washer in the pedal, a thin one and see if it works but there is a chance since you are having the problem touching the stays not all the time, IMO there is a slight chance that you need a little bit more of support in the shoe that is bothering you.

Easy to find out and problably free... grab like 2 stripes 2 inches long of handlebar ribbon, try with 1 first if you want and put that under the insole and just over the arch then go for a ride or ride in the trainer.

Hope this helps.

[RedRider]

NOPE...

You may just be trading an already incorrect fit for a worse fit...

If you're set right, your feet likely wouldnt track like that (hitting) in the case the frame is fairly standard.

If your ankles are turning in on the upstroke, you might be reaching too far and or have a cant issue and or...

They're still going to want to turn in only now they're be twisting your tib-fib and ankle even further with the pushed out axle.


Go see someone that knows their stuff.

If you have a new frame you should have a new fitting.

[John H.]

Both

John, would that be on both sides, or just the left pedal?

[oldpotatoe]

NOPE...

You may just be trading an already incorrect fit for a worse fit...

If you're set right, your feet likely wouldnt track like that (hitting) in the case the frame is fairly standard.

If your ankles are turning in on the upstroke, you might be reaching too far and or have a cant issue and or...

They're still going to want to turn in only now they're be twisting your tib-fib and ankle even further with the pushed out axle.


Go see someone that knows their stuff.

what he said.

[bironi]

I'd recommend that you crease the lateral chainstays for clearance. Don't add weight with longer pedal spindles or washers.

[Mikej]

I run the longer axles - contrary to what the board is saying about making your fit worse, I actually feel much better with more qfactor. My hips may act different than yours, but it's worth a try for 250$ We have frames built with 1 mm increments but we are all supposed to run a Q factor with no adjustment? i actually ride a fat bike and a Mtb with astronomical qfactor and feel fine. Seriously- dimple your frame? Plus you are not going to get 4 mm out of a dimple -UJA rides a ti frame I recall. I'm just saying that fit is not scientific it's just a an estimate and a second eye to get you in the range. I've also found that lowering my bars tilts my hips forward which straightens my feet as well.

[John H.]

I agree that you should try wider- just try it with spacers before you spend $.
I see more people set up too narrow than too wide.
You see them out on the road as well- the riders that look like they are on a horse.
Another thing to consider is arch support. If you run stock insoles you might be pronating through and causing the foot to hit.

[Peter P.]

I'd recommend that you crease the lateral chainstays for clearance. Don't add weight with longer pedal spindles or washers.

I was just thinking the same thing; have a framebuilder crimp the chainstay.

[RedRider]

Maybe take a dremel tool and shave the side of the offending shoe?

[Uncle Jam's Army]

Thank you so much for the wealth of replies. I really appreciate it, as it has helped me think through the approach I should take here.

Also, just to add to the mix of information, I had custom orthotics made by my orthopedist, which I've been using for about two years. My left knee tracks straight, with no pronation.

[54ny77]

I have a belt sander out yonder you're welcome to borrow. Some 60 grit on your heel or shoe and presto, we'll make it fit, dammit!

;)

[Uncle Jam's Army]

Hah, and ruin my pimp daddy white Sidi Wires?

See you out here soon, Jim :)

[Fivethumbs]

I don't know what kind of bottom bracket you have, but if its threaded, try some bottom bracket shims to widen the Q factor. I had experience with frames where someone faced the bottom bracket too much taking quite a bit of material off. Using bottom bracket shims allowed the outer edges of bottom bracket to sit out wider which allowed the crank arms to sit out wider. Maybe someone faced your bottom bracket too much.

[thirdgenbird]

I don't know what kind of bottom bracket you have, but if its threaded, try some bottom bracket shims to widen the Q factor. I had experience with frames where someone faced the bottom bracket too much taking quite a bit of material off. Using bottom bracket shims allowed the outer edges of bottom bracket to sit out wider which allowed the crank arms to sit out wider. Maybe someone faced your bottom bracket too much.

What crankset? Crank arms bottom out on the axle, not the bottom bracket shell. spacers can change the chainline and move the clearance one way of the other, but I can't think of a bb and crankset that changes Q factor with bb spacers.

[shovelhd]

I don't know what kind of bottom bracket you have, but if its threaded, try some bottom bracket shims to widen the Q factor. I had experience with frames where someone faced the bottom bracket too much taking quite a bit of material off. Using bottom bracket shims allowed the outer edges of bottom bracket to sit out wider which allowed the crank arms to sit out wider. Maybe someone faced your bottom bracket too much.

Wouldn't that make things worse?

[macaroon]

Yep, a couple of pedal washers should sort you. I run two on my right hand pedal with no problems.

[Satellite]

Yep, a couple of pedal washers should sort you. I run two on my right hand pedal with no problems.

UJA,

Yep I do the same thing two pedal washers on the Drive Side of my VaMoots. One pedal washer on the NON-Drive Side. Not for shoe clearance but knee motion my fitter suggested it, seems to work just fine.

Hope you get it figured out, it amazes me how many crank arms and chainstays I see are worn from shoe rub.

Do NOT dimple your frame, that is the craziest thing I have ever heard. No one would get with-in a mile of my Moots if I thought they were going to hit it with a hammer. Except Moots who dimpled inside the chainstays for tire clearance prebuild.

Best regards,

Satellite

[oldpotatoe]

UJA,

Yep I do the same thing two pedal washers on the Drive Side of my VaMoots. One pedal washer on the NON-Drive Side. Not for shoe clearance but knee motion my fitter suggested it, seems to work just fine.

Hope you get it figured out, it amazes me how many crank arms and chainstays I see are worn from shoe rub.

Do NOT dimple your frame, that is the craziest thing I have ever heard. No one would get with-in a mile of my Moots if I thought they were going to hit it with a hammer. Except Moots who dimpled inside the chainstays for tire clearance prebuild.

Best regards,

Satellite

You 'might' be surprised. I have dimpled a few Serotta Legends. Both for small ring to chainstay clearance and for more inward travel of the front der.

Hammer and big socket on it's side. SMACK. titanium 'moves' quite easily.

BUT I wouldn't do that to this frame for heel clearance. Fit/sizing/shoes/pedals, better alternatives, IMHO.

SpeedPlay offers longer spindles for a LOT less than the $250 mentioned..and ones at a time and a variety of lengths. AND cleat has more adjustment-both for-aft and in-out.

[Rueda Tropical]

I had a problem with my right foot bashing the chain stays. My right foot was toe out while my left was straight - parallel to the frame.

Turned out my right leg was structurally shorter then my left. A shim on the right along with placing the cleat further back straightened out my foot and eliminated the chainstay bashing. Also eliminated the occasional knee issues on the right.

[Charles M]

Hmmm... now there's a recurring theme.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

Just a postscript. I put up my Firefly for sale, as I couldn't abide by the problem. No takers. Decided to order the longer axle Dura Ace pedals and problem solved (thanks Nick aka AngryScientist). The wider Q-factor doesn't seem to be a problem. Really happy to keep the bike as it is awesome.

Still don't know why I was hitting the chainstays, as I don't have that problem on any other bike I ride.

[Veloo]

I've never used but have seen these if you have to go further out than a few washers.

http://www.kneesaver.net/ecommerce/

[54ny77]

Too much staring at the local "scenery," as it were, not focusing on pedal stroke.

:banana:



Still don't know why I was hitting the chainstays

[Uncle Jam's Army]

Too much staring at the local "scenery," as it were, not focusing on pedal stroke.

:banana:

What am I supposed to do Jim, ride with my eyes closed? Especially when I see one of those Carl's Jr. All-Natural burgers. :p

[54ny77]

Now that's a tasty burger!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_eVV7bbZtU

What am I supposed to do Jim, ride with my eyes closed? Especially when I see one of those Carl's Jr. All-Natural burgers. :p