Climbing Wheels - Advice Wanted

[gngroup]

I'm in the market for a set of climbing wheels. I have narrowed it down to either Dura Ace 9000 C24 Tubulars or Enve 25 Tubulars. I think I'd prefer Chris King R45 hubs to the more commonly available DT Swiss 240s on the Enve. Seems like it's going to be $2500 for a custom set of Enve with CK hubs. About the same for the Dura Ace wheels. Probably about $1,500 for a set of 'new takeoff's' for the Enve DT Swiss.

I'll be selling my more or less new Mavic Cosmic Carbone Ultimates to make room for these.

Anybody have any thoughts or opinions or experience they'd like to share about these wheels OR other wheel options to recommend?

[John H.]

By climbing wheels do you mean for events? Or just general use.
I am not a fan of carbon wheels for everyday use (if that use is a lot of vertical).
They just don't brake as well when wet.
But for race wheels I would get the Enve wheels. You might want to have someone like Ergott build them for you. I bet he can build a set of Enve wheels with lighter and cooler hubs than a King- same or less $.

[happycampyer]

Personally, I would just keep the CCU's. I have a set of the CCU's and the 1.25's, and I prefer the CCU's, even though the 1.25's are lighter. What is it that you don't like about the CCU's?

[gngroup]

I will be using them just for general use. That said, I have several bikes and wheels and don't plan on using these on wet rainy rides.

By climbing wheels do you mean for events? Or just general use.
I am not a fan of carbon wheels for everyday use (if that use is a lot of vertical).
They just don't brake as well when wet.
But for race wheels I would get the Enve wheels. You might want to have someone like Ergott build them for you. I bet he can build a set of Enve wheels with lighter and cooler hubs than a King- same or less $.

[gngroup]

Interesting. I'm not sure exactly what it is about the CCU's that I don't like. I suppose one is that the front rim cannot be trued and I'm not a huge fan of the hubs. However, I have no experience with the CK or DT Swiss hubs I references.

Why do you prefer yours to the Enve's?

Personally, I would just keep the CCU's. I have a set of the CCU's and the 1.25's, and I prefer the CCU's, even though the 1.25's are lighter. What is it that you don't like about the CCU's?

[RedRider]

Having done a bit of demo testing, I'm a big fan of Corima wheels. Great carbon rims and the hubs are some of best. Made in France.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm in the market for a set of climbing wheels. I have narrowed it down to either Dura Ace 9000 C24 Tubulars or Enve 25 Tubulars. I think I'd prefer Chris King R45 hubs to the more commonly available DT Swiss 240s on the Enve. Seems like it's going to be $2500 for a custom set of Enve with CK hubs. About the same for the Dura Ace wheels. Probably about $1,500 for a set of 'new takeoff's' for the Enve DT Swiss.

I'll be selling my more or less new Mavic Cosmic Carbone Ultimates to make room for these.

Anybody have any thoughts or opinions or experience they'd like to share about these wheels OR other wheel options to recommend?

these, or Hyperon or Fulcrum equivalent.

[CPP]

I really like the Zipp 202 for races. They are light, not too profiled and the hub bearings turn very smoothly.
For everyday riding, I really appreciate the Vision TC 24 Carbon tubular. Low profile, light, awesome bearings, great braking AND not too expensive! These wheels are really under rated and could easily be used as race wheels!!!
http://www.visiontechusa.com/products/road/trimax-carbon-tc24/

[shovelhd]

How much do you weigh?

[Lionel]

I've gone full circle on this from reynolds to Enve 1.25 and 1.45 handbuilt, Corima winium handbuilt. None are as good as Bora or Hyperon IMO.

[zap]

End of discussion.


these, or Hyperon or Fulcrum equivalent.

[saab2000]

After owning numerous sets of Campagnolo's "Climb Dynamic" Nucleons I am inclined to agree with those who recommend Campagnolo wheels.

The Nucleons are no longer truly competitive in weight but they're just so freaking good I can't imagine needing anything else.

And if you don't want Campagnolo, get Fulcrum. They're the same thing but unbranded as Campagnolo and are Shimano compatible.

[FlashUNC]

Hyperons. A thousand times Hyperons. I love mine.

[gngroup]

Wow, so much love for the Hyperon's! Do they make a Shimano compatible version? I had a set of Eurus before and loved those. These wheels will go on my Colnago C59 and it has a Dura Ace 9000 group. Someone asked about my weight, I am 6'1" and weigh 165 lbs.

I'm surprised that nobody has said anything about Dura Ace wheels.

I'm off to google hyperons and the Vision wheels mentioned. By the way, I owned a set of Zipp 202's and liked them fine but want to try something else this time (they were not 11 speed compatible).

[Lionel]

Yes hyperon have a shimano version. Fulcrum has the same wheel as well if you do not want campy wheels on your shimano bike :)

[FlashUNC]

Fulcrum does a Hyperon version in Shimano I believe.

Can find a gently used set for well within your budget.

[Joachim]

And you can use a Fulcrum shimano splined freehub on Campagnolo Hyperon wheels and then run a Shimano cassette. So you aren't limited to which version is on sale. Just swap the hub body! If you run 11spd, you can use campy cassettes with a shimano drive train. I do.

[gngroup]

Yes hyperon have a shimano version. Fulcrum has the same wheel as well if you do not want campy wheels on your shimano bike :)

Are the Fulcrum hubs equivalent?

[gngroup]

And you can use a Fulcrum shimano splined freehub on Campagnolo Hyperon wheels and then run a Shimano cassette. So you aren't limited to which version is on sale. Just swap the hub body! If you run 11spd, you can use campy cassettes with a shimano drive train. I do.

Good to know. By the way, I love your signature line! I've noticed it before and even quoted it to my wife one day while we pulling out of a garage that had too many nice bikes and off to a cafe of her choice for some gourmet coffee!

[wooly]

Are the Fulcrum hubs equivalent?

Yep

[oldpotatoe]

Fulcrum does a Hyperon version in Shimano I believe.

Can find a gently used set for well within your budget.

All Campagnolo and Fulcrum wheels can be either Campagnolo 9/10/11s or HG/shimano 8/9/10/11s...

[happycampyer]

A little late to the Hyperon love-fest, but they are actually my favorite wheels. I wouldn't consider them "climbing" wheels, but they are simply great all-around wheels. Another potential option (to complicate things further) is the Bora 35—the Fulcrum equivalent is the Racing Speed XLR 35. I picked up a set of Bora 35's a while back but haven't gotten around to gluing tires onto them yet—they look quite promising.

[bluesea]

Great Thread. :D

[gngroup]

It's very interesting that so many have chimed in to plug the Hyperon's. Someone mentioned that it's not a pure climbing wheel but also a great all-around wheel and that's really what I'm looking for. The CCU's that I own fit the bill but I find myself wanting something else. I have a set of DA 7850 C24 tubular wheels on another bike and love them for all around wheels.

I should also point out that I ride almost exclusively in Marin County, CA (hilly) and a typical ride might be about 40-60 miles with 2,500-5,000 feet of climbing. I like the lightweight shallow carbon wheels for this terrain.

[Climb01742]

It's very interesting that so many have chimed in to plug the Hyperon's. Someone mentioned that it's not a pure climbing wheel but also a great all-around wheel and that's really what I'm looking for. The CCU's that I own fit the bill but I find myself wanting something else. I have a set of DA 7850 C24 tubular wheels on another bike and love them for all around wheels.

I should also point out that I ride almost exclusively in Marin County, CA (hilly) and a typical ride might be about 40-60 miles with 2,500-5,000 feet of climbing. I like the lightweight shallow carbon wheels for this terrain.

Aren't blingy carbon wheel required by law in Marin?;):):p

[gngroup]

Aren't blingy carbon wheel required by law in Marin?;):):p

Ha! I'm trying to buck the trend!

[FlashUNC]

It's very interesting that so many have chimed in to plug the Hyperon's. Someone mentioned that it's not a pure climbing wheel but also a great all-around wheel and that's really what I'm looking for. The CCU's that I own fit the bill but I find myself wanting something else. I have a set of DA 7850 C24 tubular wheels on another bike and love them for all around wheels.

I should also point out that I ride almost exclusively in Marin County, CA (hilly) and a typical ride might be about 40-60 miles with 2,500-5,000 feet of climbing. I like the lightweight shallow carbon wheels for this terrain.

My Hyperons have been great here in the East Bay. Drop me a line if you want to go ride at all.

[tv_vt]

Sorry if this is hijacking the thread, but is there a good alloy rimmed clincher wheel worthy of mention here?

[happycampyer]

Sorry if this is hijacking the thread, but is there a good alloy rimmed clincher wheel worthy of mention here?I really love the ride quality of Neutron Ultras. Great ride quality and very durable.

[Lionel]

sorry if this is hijacking the thread, but is there a good alloy rimmed clincher wheel worthy of mention here?
no ! :)

[a4racer]

about the Mavic Ksyrium R-Sys SLRs?

super light, super stiff, darth vader aesthetic, and they SCREAM like jet engines when you brake. So there's that.

[kgreene10]

Boras seem to be on sale as Campy announced that they are coming out with a wider rim in 2015. I'm tempted by the Bora One 35 Dark Label. Anyone use these as a race day climbing wheel? How is the braking?

[gngroup]

about the Mavic Ksyrium R-Sys SLRs?

super light, super stiff, darth vader aesthetic, and they SCREAM like jet engines when you brake. So there's that.

I already have Mavic Cosmic Carbone Ultimate's which are lighter and stiffer and don't scream down the hills!

[Lionel]

Boras seem to be on sale as Campy announced that they are coming out with a wider rim in 2015. I'm tempted by the Bora One 35 Dark Label. Anyone use these as a race day climbing wheel? How is the braking?

I have these as well. They are very nice, closer to the hyperon that the Bora 50. Braking is better than hyperon in the wet. About the same when it is dry.

[djdj]

Boras seem to be on sale as Campy announced that they are coming out with a wider rim in 2015. I'm tempted by the Bora One 35 Dark Label. Anyone use these as a race day climbing wheel? How is the braking?

I use them as my everyday, decent weather wheels (not ridden in the rain yet). Excellent braking, "stiff," stay true, external nipples so they can be trued without removing the tire (mine have not needed to be trued). The finish is beautiful and the weight was spot on what Campagnolo said it would be. I highly recommend them and you can get the non-wide version for $1,500 or less now at Wiggle or Ribble.

[gngroup]

I use them as my everyday, decent weather wheels (not ridden in the rain yet). Excellent braking, "stiff," stay true, external nipples so they can be trued without removing the tire (mine have not needed to be trued). The finish is beautiful and the weight was spot on what Campagnolo said it would be. I highly recommend them and you can get the non-wide version for $1,500 or less now at Wiggle or Ribble.

Crazy good deal at Wiggle right now. I'm still not sure. A ton of Campy wheel endorsements in this thread but I'm looking at the C24's on paper and the Hyperons are skinnier, heavier, and more expensive! Bora's seem like the best deal for Campy.

I think I'm more confused now than when I started the thread! Maybe I'll just keep the CCU's.

[Ralph]

If the hi end Campy wheels are as good for the price as the lower end, you will be very satisfied. I've got Zonda's, (plus several sets of handbuilts on Record hubs) and for the money, I don't think anything is close. If I were younger and a stronger rider, and rode more than my 150 miles a week or so, I would get some Bora's. One of the things I like about Campy wheels to some is a disadvantage.....they are so strong and dependable, unless you have an accident or something, they just don't give any problems. If this means they are somewhat over built and 100 grams heavier than some competing wheels, so be it. I have friends on Eurus and Shamil, one uses his for cross, they just hold up. Have heard the same for Shimano BTW. But I don't know anything about their wheels.

[PaMtbRider]

Interesting thread. I currently have a set of Fulcrum Racing Zero clinchers. I've never owned a carbon rim. What difference would I notice between my current wheels and the Hyperons?

[tv_vt]

One of the things I like about Campy wheels to some is a disadvantage.....they are so strong and dependable, unless you have an accident or something, they just don't give any problems.

...yet when I look at reviews by owners (roadbikereview, for example), there are always a handful complaining about all the spokes on the rear wheel they've broken. At that point, I stop thinking about pulling the trigger on a set. Those Neutron Ultras look really nice, but same deal.

Shimano DA c24 wheels seem to be universally loved, from what I've seen in various forums lately.

[kramnnim]

The carbon tubular 9000's seem very expensive compared to the C24s.

[gngroup]

The carbon tubular 9000's seem very expensive compared to the C24s.

I am only looking at the C24 carbon tubular version. Obviously it will be more expensive than an alloy clincher.

[kramnnim]

Yeah...but 2.5 times more? I guess I assumed the carbon skinned rims were a bigger part of the price.

[CPP]

The Vision TC 24 wheels can't be beat for the price! Less known, less bling for sure but fantastic wheels!

[gngroup]

The Vision TC 24 wheels can't be beat for the price! Less known, less bling for sure but fantastic wheels!

Thanks. I'll look into these as well.

[rnhood]

I can't imagine a better wheel set than the DA C24s. I guess they are out there though.....maybe.

[gngroup]

I can't imagine a better wheel set than the DA C24s. I guess they are out there though.....maybe.

There's the ringing endorsement I've been waiting to hear!

[wooly]

I've got a set of DA9000 C24 tubeless wheels that I will be posting in the classifieds as soon as I get around to it. Not tubular but let me know if you're interested. They really are great wheels.

And I will be driving up to San Fran for the Christmas holidays for a face to face delivery!:beer:

[gngroup]

I've got a set of DA9000 C24 tubeless wheels that I will be posting in the classifieds as soon as I get around to it. Not tubular but let me know if you're interested. They really are great wheels.

And I will be driving up to San Fran for the Christmas holidays for a face to face delivery!:beer:

Not interested in alloy clinchers, thanks though.

[gngroup]

Despite all the Campy praise and the other interesting and good suggestions, I bit the bullet and went with a set of DA 9000 C24 tubulars. I guess in the end, that's just want I 'wanted' the most. I don't imagine I will be disappointed. Anyhow, thanks for all the feedback. I'll chime in with a ride report once I have them set up. The Mavic Cosmic Carbone Ultimate's with a full 439 miles on them will hit the classifieds soon . . .

[apeescape]

I think its either a Bora Ultra 35 or Lightweights. Obviously neither suffer the stigma of low price, but will probably fly under the radar up in Marin ;)

[aramis]

Is there really a difference between "regular" wheels and climbing wheels? I thought unless you were super slow that the aerodynamics were more important than the 200g weight savings.

Also I meant where I am there is a lot of climbing, but that means descents too and there's usually at least some flat parts.

[kgreene10]

Is there really a difference between "regular" wheels and climbing wheels? I thought unless you were super slow that the aerodynamics were more important than the 200g weight savings.

Also I meant where I am there is a lot of climbing, but that means descents too and there's usually at least some flat parts.

More knowledgeable posters may chime in, but Zipp and the guys at Aeroweenie agree with you - over the course of a long course with mixed terrain, aero wheels trump lighter wheels. But racers often prefer to have light hoops that spin up fast on the climbs so they can either make or cover the key move.

[happycampyer]

Is there really a difference between "regular" wheels and climbing wheels? I thought unless you were super slow that the aerodynamics were more important than the 200g weight savings.

Also I meant where I am there is a lot of climbing, but that means descents too and there's usually at least some flat parts.Obviously the term "climbing wheel" can mean different things to different people. When one mentions "climbing wheel" and "carbon," I generally think of mid- to low-profile wheels in the sub-1,200g category. The extreme end includes wheels like the Enve 1.25 and the Lightweight Ventoux, which are around (and depending on the build for the 1.25's, can be below) the 1,000g mark.

If one is going up climbs that last, say, 45 minutes to an hour (or more), a super light weight wheel will be noticeable, and aero properties don't come into play. On the flip side, on the descent, I would argue that good braking is more important than aero properties—if one can go 40-50mph with low profile rims, deeper profile rims won't add much advantage, but smooth, reliable braking will. Add rain and/or wind/gusts to the mix, and the choice of profile (in the case of wind) and braking quality become even more critical.

That is why I think that the ~35mm depth has become so popular in the carbon wheel space (think Zipp 202 or 303, Enve 3.4, Bora 35, Mavic CCU, etc.). The wheels are generally still very light, in the 1,000-1,200g range, are modestly aero, and are not so deep to be susceptible to side gusts, etc.

[gngroup]

When I started the thread, I certainly used the term 'climbing wheel' to denote exactly what you wrote below; low-profile lightweight carbon wheels. The discussion on what it actually means and to whom is an interesting one. happycampyer seems to sum it up well.

For me, riding in the fairly hilly terrain of SF and Marin County, I like the shallow to mid profile carbon hoops. I have owned the Zipp 202's and still own the Mavic CCU's both of which do well in this arena and are very nice wheels. I did however almost get completely blown over by a gust of wind on the GG Bridge while riding the CCU's and also descending on them in high winds was scary a few times. That said, 'high winds' can be 25 mph gusts coming off the Pacific. In the end, that's one of the reasons I'm selling them for something shallower. I think it just comes down to personal preference as I see many deeper dish carbon hoops going up and down hills around me.


Obviously the term "climbing wheel" can mean different things to different people. When one mentions "climbing wheel" and "carbon," I generally think of mid- to low-profile wheels in the sub-1,200g category. The extreme end includes wheels like the Enve 1.25 and the Lightweight Ventoux, which are around (and depending on the build for the 1.25's, can be below) the 1,000g mark.

If one is going up climbs that last, say, 45 minutes to an hour (or more), a super light weight wheel will be noticeable, and aero properties don't come into play. On the flip side, on the descent, I would argue that good braking is more important than aero properties—if one can go 40-50mph with low profile rims, deeper profile rims won't add much advantage, but smooth, reliable braking will. Add rain and/or wind/gusts to the mix, and the choice of profile (in the case of wind) and braking quality become even more critical.

That is why I think that the ~35mm depth has become so popular in the carbon wheel space (think Zipp 202 or 303, Enve 3.4, Bora 35, Mavic CCU, etc.). The wheels are generally still very light, in the 1,000-1,200g range, are modestly aero, and are not so deep to be susceptible to side gusts, etc.

[FlashUNC]

When I started the thread, I certainly used the term 'climbing wheel' to denote exactly what you wrote below; low-profile lightweight carbon wheels. The discussion on what it actually means and to whom is an interesting one. happycampyer seems to sum it up well.

For me, riding in the fairly hilly terrain of SF and Marin County, I like the shallow to mid profile carbon hoops. I have owned the Zipp 202's and still own the Mavic CCU's both of which do well in this arena and are very nice wheels. I did however almost get completely blown over by a gust of wind on the GG Bridge while riding the CCU's and also descending on them in high winds was scary a few times. That said, 'high winds' can be 25 mph gusts coming off the Pacific. In the end, that's one of the reasons I'm selling them for something shallower. I think it just comes down to personal preference as I see many deeper dish carbon hoops going up and down hills around me.

I'm still new to the East Bay, but I really don't get the guys I see riding 50mm+ deep rims given some of the descents we've got around here. Personal preference as you point out, but when I decided to dip my toe into the carbon water with the Hyperons (happycampyer provided just a bit of advice on this front, much of what he's already posted in this thread), the low profile and braking characteristics were a huge plus in my book. I didn't care about aero as much since I'm slow, but shaving some grams of rotating weight sure didn't hurt the climbs around me.

[bluesea]

I have an Ergott Signature SES 3.4 wheelset (nib), for the specific purpose of doing the Haleakala Cycle to the Sun. 36mi in 4hr is about 9mph avg.

[gngroup]

I'm still new to the East Bay, but I really don't get the guys I see riding 50mm+ deep rims given some of the descents we've got around here. Personal preference as you point out, but when I decided to dip my toe into the carbon water with the Hyperons (happycampyer provided just a bit of advice on this front, much of what he's already posted in this thread), the low profile and braking characteristics were a huge plus in my book. I didn't care about aero as much since I'm slow, but shaving some grams of rotating weight sure didn't hurt the climbs around me.

I hear you! I'm not sure how those guys manage to go up or down with the super deep carbon wheels. More power to them I guess. Though I don't think the vast majority of us out there come anywhere close to get getting the aero benefit that those wheels offer.

[Likes2ridefar]

I hear you! I'm not sure how those guys manage to go up or down with the super deep carbon wheels. More power to them I guess. Though I don't think the vast majority of us out there come anywhere close to get getting the aero benefit that those wheels offer.

some or a lot of it depends on the wheels. I've had terrifying experiences on older zipp 404s and even scarier times on reynolds 66 and even their 46. also mavic cosmic carbones. I remember once in a race in Indonesia I was hit by a crosswind on 404s and I was literally blown halfway across the road. Thankfully I was in a break and didn't hit anyone.

But on some of the newer rim shapes like firecrest 404 and the black inc wheels i currently ride which are similar to firecrest, i don't mind descending very fast and in windy conditions. I ride the carbon clinchers I have in all conditions besides wet/rain where I live now which is very hilly and steep terrain with lots of curves.

Good call on the dura ace wheels. I had the 7850 version and they were fantastic. one of the best wheelsets I've ever ridden. Too bad I broke them racing down in Brazil. Those damn death dots...

[gngroup]

I thought I'd return to this post to provide an update. I had ordered the DA 9000 C24 tubulars from Jenson as they were on steep discount and the last one in stock. About a week later, I was able to track down a set of Enve 25 tubulars laced to DT Swiss 240's, brand new, for a great price. I returned the DA's and kept the Enve. I've yet to glue them up and ride them but I am happy with the quality as far as a visual inspection goes and for the price differential, I don't think they will be any worse than the DA's (though I prefer the DA hubs).

[John H.]

They are all nice wheels.
I will be interested to see what you think of them when braking in the fog and moisture.

[gngroup]

Me too! My past carbon wheels have all been pretty good; especially the Mavic CCU's recently. I have an older (7850) pair of C24 tubulars though and with SwissStop pads even in the dry the braking was downright scary.

They are all nice wheels.
I will be interested to see what you think of them when braking in the fog and moisture.