OT cars: where will it end, the complete massacring of grills

[eddief]

this new Camry takes the old Mazda3 and says FU to that!

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/in-defence-of-the-2015-camrys-front-end-1637943718

At least Mazda found a pleasant way to come to its senses.

[cmg]

reminds me American Chopper's Paul Teutul Sr's mustache. :) He should have trademarked it. too late....

[ceolwulf]

I liked the grill on the first gen Infiniti Q45.

[Louis]

http://s.petrolicious.com/2014/your-car/06-jun/alfa-romeo-1750-gtv-list.jpg

[bobswire]

'39 Ford Coupe.

http://i62.tinypic.com/eaigpd.jpg

'26 Rolls

http://i57.tinypic.com/nxjlzl.jpg

[Louis]

You sure can tell that cars didn't go very fast back then - those bumpers look like they were designed more to move animals and people out of the way, than to absorb energy. (Hence the name, I suppose.)

[oldpotatoe]

'62

[Louis]

'62

That doesn't have an air intake so it doesn't count.

[Ralph]

Cars don't really need grills anymore. Most of the cooling air for AC parts and radiators (at speed) comes in below the front bumper. Air dams then direct the air where it needs to go. Designers think they need something there that looks like a grill, then at highway speed they (in many cases) put electronically controlled shutters in to close off any openings for air to enter thru the grill. Worth 1 MPG on a Ford Explorer at highway speed. Modern aero design for best fuel economy is for no air to enter the grill area and not much to go under the car. Then difuse it when it comes around the car at rear (what do you think about looks from the rear of some cars). Thus.....you get these grills that don't look like grills. A sharks mouth or smiley face or something. Weird! Ford and GM are very advanced in this science of air management.

[oldpotatoe]

That doesn't have an air intake so it doesn't count.
this

[Louis]

this

A high-tech model. ;)

[oldpotatoe]

A high-tech model. ;)

high tech..used to have an '87, should have never sold it.

Sorry for the thread heist.

[thirdgenbird]

That doesn't have an air intake so it doesn't count.

Neither does the Camry. I haven't seen one up close, but apparently 75% or more of that is black plastic that's blocked off on the back side.

As mentioned, most cars take air from below the bumper.

Tesla
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4242&d=1329095744

[Tony T]

http://i.ebayimg.com/14/!BsF+S-gEWk~$(KGrHqYH-CwEvF4U2iG0BL2ekF!i(Q~~_35.JPG

[572cv]

Little air comes in from below, its all through the grille on the 2cv, funneled directly at the mighty 2 cyl. air cooled FWD boxer motor, pumping out a massive 18 hp.

[thirdgenbird]

I want a 2cv in a bad way.

[pitonpat]

1697891080

[Louis]

This one's mine. (Taken by the previous owner, so the stupid plate is now gone.)

[dave thompson]

In a previous life, this grille was mine.

[Louis]

If we're doing red rag tops, here's one essentially identical to my '87 Spider...

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/attachments/alfa-romeo-cars-sale-wanted/525385d1398794842-87-spider-graduate-img_2018.jpeg

[pbarry]

I had a long love affair with old Volvos.

[Gsinill]

The (really) good ol' days of MB!

http://www.sl113.org/wiki/uploads/Buying/EuroFront.jpg

[eddief]

check in with you at post #10,000.

The (really) good ol' days of MB!

http://www.sl113.org/wiki/uploads/Buying/EuroFront.jpg

[Rueda Tropical]

Grills I love

1697891099

1697891100

1697891101

[Tony T]

http://www.simplebites.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/3449467540_2b7d5f704c.jpg

Opps, sorry, wrong grill :)

[jghall]

Camry - just a scaled down version of the grill on its cousin, Lexus IS series.

[eddief]

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1027824_2016-kia-optima-first-look

[ORMojo]

http://www.datsunsports.com/Cars/2010-nov16/img-l/DSC00224_thumbnail.jpeg

Never, ever should have sold mine - needless to say, I miss it. It was a blast to drive, very fast and stable, and a bit ahead of its time for a production car (although I modded mine a fair amount). Idled low and smooth, with redline all the way up at 8,000 - occasionally I would top it out at just over 130 MPH. (Not my street record - that belonged to my '72 Mustang Fastback with the 4-barrel 351 Cleveland, topped out at 142 MPH one day on a brand new highway about a week before they actually opened the road - I-205 for you fellow Oregonians!)

I did all my own mechanics, and drove it constantly (had hard, soft, and tonneau covers). Been thinking for the past couple of years about finding another one, might even go to the Shasta meet this July.

I found one about five years ago that was meticulously professionally restored with all the absolute best materials, and it would have been awesome, but my wife probably wouldn't have wanted me dropping $30k on it!

Unfortunately I don't have any photos of the one I used to own, but the red one front and center could be its twin - mine had those same black stripes.
http://www.datsunsports.com/img2014/S-night.jpg

[TPetsch]

http://wallfoy.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Mustang-Shelby-102.jpg

[unterhausen]

the current lineup of GM trucks have ridiculous grills that just shout, "I am inadequate" Most of those things get purchased by people with major ego deficits, so I suppose it's appropriate

As far as the one on the Camry, seems like the wrong image for that car, but it doesn't look that bad to me.

[FlashUNC]

Much like the Lexus grills that are out there, I like it. I'm probably giving it more of a pass because Toyota finally seems to be waking up just a bit and realizing that cars can have some kind of fun and personality to them while being reliable as the day is long.

(Ahem...bring us a new Supra already...)

And on the subject of grills. I'll trade you a grill for hood slats, pop up headlights and rally stage airtime any day:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8177/8015110057_e1df9500c4_b.jpg

[Mark McM]

Cars don't really need grills anymore. Most of the cooling air for AC parts and radiators (at speed) comes in below the front bumper. Air dams then direct the air where it needs to go.

They still have grills (or the function of grills, which is to protect the radiator from debris) - they just camouflage them into the body work when they put them under the bumper.

The reason the grill is below bumper is largely due to federal uniform bumper height regulations. Bumpers are most affective when cars only contact bumper to bumper. To guarantee this, all bumpers (front and rear) have to be the same height. The actual height used is federally regulated. Cars with low front fascias don't have space above the bumper, so the grill has been moved below the bumper.

[ORMojo]

Cars don't really need grills anymore. Most of the cooling air for AC parts and radiators (at speed) comes in below the front bumper. Air dams then direct the air where it needs to go.

They still have grills (or the function of grills, which is to protect the radiator from debris) - they just camouflage them into the body work when they put them under the bumper.

The reason the grill is below bumper is largely due to federal uniform bumper height regulations. Bumpers are most affective when cars only contact bumper to bumper. To guarantee this, all bumpers (front and rear) have to be the same height. The actual height used is federally regulated. Cars with low front fascias don't have space above the bumper, so the grill has been moved below the bumper.


Beat me to it - regulated bumper height. Thanks!

And as to air flow, my new Turbo Forester takes in the air just under the hood lip and, yes, through the grill, routing it to the turbo. Note how, when the hood is closed, the air intakes settle down behind the top of the grill. Much nicer than the hood scoop they used to use (never liked the look of that on the Subarus), and I understand they did away with the scoop at least in part because of the added risk of injury it presented in front-end impacts with pedestrians.

http://wildsau.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/engine-bay-with-air-routing.jpg

[Ralph]

I'll stand by what I said above. You really don't want air going into a grill, if you can design around it. Too much drag. You want air going over, under, and around the grill area, not into it. Lastest designs, for vehicles that need air directly into the "grill" area, for turbo's, even super chargers, etc, are using shutters that close off the air flow at speed. Turbo Ford Explorer comes to mind as an advanced design. The grill shutters close off as cooling air need declines. When turbo cranks up, they open. Ford claims about 1 MPG inprovement on the highway with these conputer controlled shutters. And they are several other makes doing this now also. Racing cars been doing this a long time.

[ORMojo]

I'll stand by what I said above. You really don't want air going into a grill, if you can design around it. Too much drag. You want air going over, under, and around the grill area, not into it. Lastest designs, for vehicles that need air directly into the "grill" area, for turbo's, even super chargers, etc, are using shutters that close off the air flow at speed. Turbo Ford Explorer comes to mind as an advanced design. The grill shutters close off as cooling air need declines. When turbo cranks up, they open. Ford claims about 1 MPG inprovement on the highway with these conputer controlled shutters. And they are several other makes doing this now also. Racing cars been doing this a long time.

I don't disagree with you, everything else equal.

That said, compare the specs:
http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv48/ORMojo1/ExplorerForester_zpsqtpx6zhw.jpg (http://s668.photobucket.com/user/ORMojo1/media/ExplorerForester_zpsqtpx6zhw.jpg.html)

I'm very impressed by the performance of my turbo Forester, both on road and off (there are some very good off-road enhancements you can activate). I'm using 93 octane ethanol-free gas, and regularly get 32-33 MPG on my highway drives up & down I-5, and 25-28 during in-town driving, dropping to 23 at the lowest under bad traffic or other conditions. And my wife will tell you I am not light-footed - she reminds me all too often!

Minor edit, but the table should indicate that the transmission's 6- and 8-speed modes are available either in automatic shifting or manual shifting mode. It really is a blast to drive an 8-speed "manual" with the steering wheel mounted paddle shifters.

[Mark McM]

I'll stand by what I said above. You really don't want air going into a grill, if you can design around it. Too much drag. You want air going over, under, and around the grill area, not into it. Lastest designs, for vehicles that need air directly into the "grill" area, for turbo's, even super chargers, etc, are using shutters that close off the air flow at speed. Turbo Ford Explorer comes to mind as an advanced design. The grill shutters close off as cooling air need declines. When turbo cranks up, they open. Ford claims about 1 MPG inprovement on the highway with these conputer controlled shutters. And they are several other makes doing this now also. Racing cars been doing this a long time.

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grille_(motor_vehicle)):

Grille (motor vehicle)

In automotive engineering, a grille covers an opening in the body of a vehicle to allow air to enter. Most vehicles feature a grille at the front of the vehicle to protect the radiator and engine. Merriam-Webster describes grilles as "a grating forming a barrier or screen; especially: an ornamental one at the front end of an automobile."[1] Other common grille locations include below the front bumper, in front of the wheels (to cool the brakes), in the cowl for cabin ventilation, or on the rear deck lid (in rear engine vehicles).

Every picture of a front engine water-cooled car in this thread has a grill, regardless of whether it is above or below the bumper.

[cnighbor1]

As an architect and born in Detroit in 1936 I look at and read a lot about cars. Also I eat Pizza once a week outside dinning area at whole foods where I look at one heck of a lot of car grilles. and try to see which is better
Here is what I concluded. Car designer when they decided the front of the car had to be closer to the ground they had more vertical dimension to deal with.
A lot have at least two grilles. the one in the normal position and one down lower. why? with bigger frontal area they had too much mass for just one grille and to take away that massive look one answer you mentioned with Mazda design and Audi designs where the grille is one grille and goes nearly to the bottom of front. second option was two grills with the upper one at times being the dominate one but not always
I like neither but cars design must evolve to keep selling
One question I have is this with a lower front when driving in deep snow you must be pushing that snow aside. Are you?
charles

[rwsaunders]

Dave Thompson tried to sell me his old Caddie before he went South of the border...

[Idris Icabod]

Austin Healey 3000 does it for me

[rnhood]

I liked the 3000 Austin Healy too. Other grills or front ends I liked were the TR6 Triumph, '72 Gran Torino, and the current Ford Fusion. And the '68 Charger was decent too.

[Louis]

my new Turbo Forester

If there's a car with an engine oil filter that's easier to access, I haven't seen it. I was amazed, the first time I popped the hood on my Impreza.

[sg8357]

Who needs a grille?

[Tony T]

If there's a car with an engine oil filter that's easier to access, I haven't seen it. I was amazed, the first time I popped the hood on my Impreza.

Jeep TJ.

[Louis]

Jeep TJ.

Where is it on that engine?

[Tony T]

Where is it on that engine?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evGJJpBb4gM

[Louis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evGJJpBb4gM

That's nearly inaccessible compared to the Subie!

[bikinchris]

The big Infiniti SUV is just plain ugly. I have seen maybe three total Japanese cars that I would be willing to say weren't just plain ugly.
Hire a frickin Italian to design your cars for goodness sake.

[don compton]

this new Camry takes the old Mazda3 and says FU to that!

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/in-defence-of-the-2015-camrys-front-end-1637943718

At least Mazda found a pleasant way to come to its senses.
The European Pedestrian Standard has contributed to this problem 100%

[ceolwulf]

if there's a car with an engine oil filter that's easier to access, i haven't seen it. I was amazed, the first time i popped the hood on my impreza.


rx-7.

Edit: thank you vBulletin for valiantly preventing the use of all caps. Whether it's warranted or not.

[FlashUNC]

Jeep TJ.

Where is it on that engine?

I was going to suggest the TJ as well.

My 64 Plymouth Belvedere with a 318 small block had enough room in the engine bay for me to stand in it while I changed the oil filter. Only did that once to show off to some buddies.

[Elefantino]

The Car I Wish I Had Never Sold (exactly like this '74) had no need for a stinkin' grille.

http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/12/CC-68-047-800.jpg

[eddief]

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/06/29/2016-scion-ia-first-drive-review/

Take a cool looking Mazda...and kill it.

[Louis]

Guppy-mouth.

[eddief]

if they thought that was a good looking car, what percent would say yes. You'd think a giant like Toyota does a ton o market research before committing to stuff like this?

[Tony T]

Guppy-mouth.

Good description…
(also looks like it has braces :))

http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/750x422/quality/95/http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/353/191/4/S3531914/slug/l/06-2016-scion-ia-fd-1.jpg

[Louis]

One of the ugliest planes ever built:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/images/x-32-c35-1781-65.jpg

[Tony T]

…at least it's happy :)

[Lewis Moon]

On a darker note:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=121885&stc=1&d=1200187409

That's a 140 lb deer.

[jh_on_the_cape]

That is brilliant. My wife's passat is the opposite of that. German engineering at its finest.

That's nearly inaccessible compared to the Subie!

[martl]

You sure can tell that cars didn't go very fast back then - those bumpers look like they were designed more to move animals and people out of the way, than to absorb energy. (Hence the name, I suppose.)

They used to exist as an inexpensive-to-replace protection for more expensive painted body parts. Now, they *are* expensive-to repair painted body parts.

[stephenmarklay]

high tech..used to have an '87, should have never sold it.

Sorry for the thread heist.

I have an 85 that is with the interior out and such. I really need to get it together.

[oldpotatoe]

One of the ugliest planes ever built:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/images/x-32-c35-1781-65.jpg

Good thing it lost altho in radar cross section, even with the big mouth, smaller RCS. It also had certain aspects of it's performance better than the competitor but yes, butt ugly.

[fiataccompli]

blasts from my past...
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/144/334988909_05f463ca15.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/vAUwR)

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2922/14260415446_590d9c03a6_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nJ9mFQ)

[fiataccompli]

blast from my past...
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/144/334988909_05f463ca15.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/vAUwR)

(uh, sorry for the large file size there)

[Mark McM]

One of the ugliest planes ever built:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/images/x-32-c35-1781-65.jpg

I think the design for this plane (and some of the cars being discussed here) were inspired by the basking shark.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/twobestfriendsplay/images/1/1e/Basking-shark1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20131116143359

[eddief]

http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/new-2016-lexus-gs-200t-set-for-november-unveiling-at-lexus-dealerships.html

[mtechnica]

Man, I don't even wanna get started. I'm a huge (closet) car guy, used to race, got into bicycles, blah blah. I can't stand most new cars, how much they weigh, how big they are, or how most of them look. The new miata is one of the only new appealing cars out there, to me, and at least BMW and (some) ford are going in the right direction of lightening their cars. RWD for life. Rant over...

[bikinchris]

Man, I don't even wanna get started. I'm a huge (closet) car guy, used to race, got into bicycles, blah blah. I can't stand most new cars, how much they weigh, how big they are, or how most of them look. The new miata is one of the only new appealing cars out there, to me, and at least BMW and (some) ford are going in the right direction of lightening their cars. RWD for life. Rant over...

You might like this car:
https://youtu.be/HmscSzFurwg

[sworcester]

On a darker note:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=121885&stc=1&d=1200187409

That's a 140 lb deer.

My sister hit a deer in PA at about 70+ in a new RX350, fixed it and as a bonus smelled like barbecue from then on.

[sworcester]

I have a year old Acura MDX that I wanted to trade to another, but the larger mustache grill turned me off. Same for the Lexus arachnid grill.

[downtube]

My little Ford coupe

http://img5.hostingpics.net/pics/87294512.jpg

[dave thompson]

Certainly not your typical wimpy front end.

[eddief]

http://specscars2016.com/2016-lexus-rx-350-release-date-price-review/2016-lexus-rx-350-latest-news/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnmccormick/2015/11/05/new-lexus-rx-an-act-of-madness-or-a-masterstroke/?utm_campaign=yahootix&partner=yahootix

[Louis]

Yuck.

[eddief]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnmccormick/2016/10/17/muddled-design-undermines-toyota-prius-prime/#4c9cdb1a4f49

[MattTuck]

Saw a 300SL on my ride yesterday...

50 years of progress. Depends on your definition of progress.

https://s17-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http:%2F%2Fsrv2.betterparts.org%2Fi mages%2Fmercedes-benz-300-sl-roadster-04.jpg&sp=ea6622d008505f356d06b396da40f27b

http://cdn2.ubergizmo.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/prius-640x346.jpg

[Dave B]

the BEE (for sale) doesn't have the best example of a sports grill, but the hood scoop directs air to the heads to cool them down. These HEMI's heat up really quick! I took the air funnels off once to mess around with something and the temperature of the engine did register rather high after spirited driving. I let the car cool down, replaced the funnels and drove it again and noticed the temps did not climb as high.

Whether you like the looks or not it does actually work. I dig the aggressive look to it, but that is just me.

[eddief]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jaclyntrop/2017/06/26/toyota-jazzes-up-the-next-generation-camry-with-a-new-look-and-more-power/#72c190801189

[thirdgenbird]

The mk6 and mk7 golf/gti looks better every day.