Showed some concern for cyclist's safety => negative response

[yoshirider]

I was waiting at a left turn light on my commute home and a cyclist on a road bike with a backpack comes up in front of me but parks himself at the right edge of the left turn lane. It's already dark and the street lights are doing a mediocre job at helping with visibility. The bike has a tiny tail light (a knog?) and was completely in the lane, but his body was leaning towards the right. The light for the cars going straight turns green, but left turn light still red. The speed limit on this road is 50mph so you can expect people to be going 55mph. At this point, I'm worried about the guy getting clipped by distracted drivers and I wish he would just come towards the middle of the lane a little more. I've seen cars do stupid things at this intersection. Left turn light changes to green and the cyclist pedals off. He gets 20 ft in front and then all of sudden slows down suddenly because he couldn't clip his right foot in. He's still in the left turn lane at this point. Finally, he gets into the bike lane and I drive ahead and stop at the next light. It's red and he pulls up next to me. I roll down my window and tell him that I was worried back there that he was going to get clipped. His response to me was "this the lane of travel for bikes" and told me to stay in my lane. I immediately try to explain to him that I'm a cyclist too and that the cars going straight were going fast and they could have clipped him. He tells me to worry about myself instead. Wow I was just showing some concern for his safety. I would have been grateful if someone showed me the same concern. What a jerk!

[ultraman6970]

It depends a lot of what is the perception the other dude has, if you think over it looks like the dude had the situation under control?

[vqdriver]

we've all met these riders, whether in cars or on our own bikes. it happens. just like some (not all) drivers consider cyclists to be a nuisance, some riders are equally combative whenever someone in a car says anything other than "nice bike". it sucks but it's real. you tried.

[yoshirider]

Maybe in his head he's riding according to the law and he should be safe. However, we all know the law won't keep us safe every time and I didn't feel he rode defensively at all. Not once did I see him look around or back at the cars. If I were turning in the left turn lane I would've darted straight for the bike lane. His unexpected slowdown from not being able to clip could have caused him to get hit. I definitely braked for that and I wasn't even following him closely.

[Dead Man]

I'd bet he was just caught off guard and assumed you were coming at him as an irritated ignorant motorist sharing your irritation, not just a fellow cyclist trying to help a bro out. I seem to get hassled often enough that I can guarantee you someone trying to talk to me about my riding style from a car is just automatically going to get met with an intellectual brick wall. I might think about it and re-assess again later, but that's just the automatic response in the moment.

[CheshireCat]

most people who ride a lot are used to everything coming out of a car driver's mouth to be the product of a human sized sphinter ani externus.

I wouldn't put too much into it. I just don't like people talking to me whether I'm in my car or on my bike or motorcycle and tend to try to cut interactions as short as possible. It's easy to be immediately put off and defensive when you see a vehicle rolling down their window.

Most often when I see that I brace for having something thrown at me, or reach for whatever self defense method I am legally allowed to carry in that jurisdiction, if it applies to the situation.

You likely just spooked the poor guy. SoCal was not a friendly place to ride, in my memory. People tend to be short and slightly rude when they suspect they might be in danger of intentional bodily harm.

[rustychisel]

most people who ride a lot are used to everything coming out of a car driver's mouth to be the product of a human sized sphinter ani externus.

I wouldn't put too much into it. I just don't like people talking to me whether I'm in my car or on my bike or motorcycle and tend to try to cut interactions as short as possible. It's easy to be immediately put off and defensive when you see a vehicle rolling down their window.

Most often when I see that I brace for having something thrown at me, or reach for whatever self defense method I am legally allowed to carry in that jurisdiction, if it applies to the situation.

You likely just spooked the poor guy. SoCal was not a friendly place to ride, in my memory. People tend to be short and slightly rude when they suspect they might be in danger of intentional bodily harm.


+ 1

It doesn't mean much. I tell my friends if they honk the car horn when they see me cycling in the city in all likelyhood they'll get the finger.

[rcnute]

It sounds like you were well-intentioned but not a surprising response to unsolicited advice.

Ryan

[gdw]

And some us wonder why the general public thinks cyclists are a------s....

[tumbler]

I'd bet he was just caught off guard and assumed you were coming at him as an irritated ignorant motorist sharing your irritation, not just a fellow cyclist trying to help a bro out. I seem to get hassled often enough that I can guarantee you someone trying to talk to me about my riding style from a car is just automatically going to get met with an intellectual brick wall. I might think about it and re-assess again later, but that's just the automatic response in the moment.

My thoughts exactly.

[rustychisel]

And some us wonder why the general public thinks cyclists are a------s....

no, that's an unfair characterisation. We were offering an explicable reason, not the truth. It's understandable, doesn't make it right.

Don't read more than that into it.

[eddief]

in many different forms. Feel lucky you got to drive off without having him take his pump to your hood. Carma works in mysterious ways. Stick with being caring and some will appreciate it, some will get whacked at 50 mph.

[callt5]

You did a good thing.

If someone offers unwanted advise to me while riding, and it's not confrontational, I will respond with a short, non sarcastic "Thanks!" and leave it at that. Definitely no need to be an A-hole.

Like others said, hopefully he will get it when he thinks about it later.

[fogrider]

Yeah, I always give helpful advice to other cyclist on the road doing dangerous things on the road, but they always seem to a be a$$holes too. they should be thanking me!!!

[Dead Man]

I don't know, man. There's just something special about getting unsolicited advice from a completely un-vetted source in the middle of a given activity, especially when you feel very competent, experienced, and possibly even superior to most others around you participating. Even if it's another cyclist on a bike I'm probably not going to be just immediately receptive to any advice or constructive criticism. New to a particular organized event, I've taken some well-verbalized pointers from other dudes on bikes, sure. Out on the velodrome this summer I felt like a total noob and probably acted like one... I took pretty much all advice offered to me. But out on the roads, you probably can't tell me jack ····, unless I know and respect you.

And if I'm really being honest with myself, I know why: I know that I'm a better rider than most people out there; and I have to admit that deep down, I kind of feel like most everyone else out there are kind of idiots. So until I know for a fact that you have the requisite experience, sense, and bike-handling skills to be offering mighty-me any advice, I'm just going to assume you're a choad.

Again... this is just me being very candid here... I'm not trying to sound like an arrogant prick, I just think this is how our heads work. Off the cuff, anyway.

[rustychisel]

I don't know, man. There's just something special about getting unsolicited advice......

I'd agree. I think this sums up the attitude I and others bring to the table [or road].

viz... the fact that I always know what I'm doing and where I'm going, even if it doesn't seem like it to others [like, why are you riding in the middle of the lane dude?].

[yoshirider]

I guess my understanding of giving advice is different. I told him my observations and didn't say anything about riding a certain way or to do anything. I really only just told him I was worried about him and it looked like he was going to get clipped by the cars going straight. *shrug* There wasn't much time to say anything else as the light turned green shortly after.

[beeatnik]

Which SoCal intersection, Yoshi?

[Scuzzer]

I started road riding in 1978 and I've had exactly one time when someone rolled down their window and said something nice*. Every time I see I a window coming down I immediately go into defensive mode and it wouldn't surprise me that this guy did as well. We're just conditioned to that response.

*The one time was a rather attractive late 20s female that said "Nice shoes!". I'm pretty sure she was making fun of me but I choose to believe she actually liked them. Either way I responded the same way I do to F-bomb laced diatribes. "Thanks, have a nice day!"

[oldpotatoe]

I was waiting at a left turn light on my commute home and a cyclist on a road bike with a backpack comes up in front of me but parks himself at the right edge of the left turn lane. It's already dark and the street lights are doing a mediocre job at helping with visibility. The bike has a tiny tail light (a knog?) and was completely in the lane, but his body was leaning towards the right. The light for the cars going straight turns green, but left turn light still red. The speed limit on this road is 50mph so you can expect people to be going 55mph. At this point, I'm worried about the guy getting clipped by distracted drivers and I wish he would just come towards the middle of the lane a little more. I've seen cars do stupid things at this intersection. Left turn light changes to green and the cyclist pedals off. He gets 20 ft in front and then all of sudden slows down suddenly because he couldn't clip his right foot in. He's still in the left turn lane at this point. Finally, he gets into the bike lane and I drive ahead and stop at the next light. It's red and he pulls up next to me. I roll down my window and tell him that I was worried back there that he was going to get clipped. His response to me was "this the lane of travel for bikes" and told me to stay in my lane. I immediately try to explain to him that I'm a cyclist too and that the cars going straight were going fast and they could have clipped him. He tells me to worry about myself instead. Wow I was just showing some concern for his safety. I would have been grateful if someone showed me the same concern. What a jerk!

Most anytime a person in a car wants to say something to a person on a bike, the cyclist is going to be annoyed or downright angry, it seems. If you were on a bike, he probably would have listened. The conflict between car drivers and bike riders doesn't seem to be getting any better..IMHO, also here in the republic.

[coffeecake]

I agree with others. I would likewise be automatically defensive if someone in a car rolled their window.

E.g. I was riding on the very left of the left lane on a 4-lane road (in preparation to turn left in the cut-out that was about 100 m ahead) when a car pulls up on my right and the guy goes "You do know you're supposed to ride on the right?" And I stare blankly at him as I get in the left lane cut-out to make my turn.

So I am conditioned to believe drivers have very little idea of what a cyclist needs to do to stay safe while riding with automobile traffic.

[Gummee]

IMO the minute you (generic you, not the OP specifically) yell ANYthing out the window, you've just proven that you're too stupid to listen to and your 'advice*' is summarily ignored.

M

*even if it really IS advice. Mostly I hear 'get off the road!' or variations of that theme

[Rusty Luggs]

OP-
Not even unsolicited “advice”, just unsolicited comment from a random stranger.
In my opinion, you created a confrontation where there was none. No comment was required from you. Expressing your “worry” was not constructive. I think you actually got a relatively benign response given the circumstances.
And your opinion about the riders lane positioning was just a matter of judgment, where your judgment was different from someone else’s. Expressing your opinion about it was not required.
Who appointed you everyone’s dad?
Do you roll up to folks telling them you are concerned because they aren’t wearing a helmet, or aren’t wearing neon, or don’t use a blinky light day and night, etc.?

[Raffy]

I don't know, man. There's just something special about getting unsolicited advice from a completely un-vetted source in the middle of a given activity, especially when you feel very competent, experienced, and possibly even superior to most others around you participating. Even if it's another cyclist on a bike I'm probably not going to be just immediately receptive to any advice or constructive criticism. New to a particular organized event, I've taken some well-verbalized pointers from other dudes on bikes, sure. Out on the velodrome this summer I felt like a total noob and probably acted like one... I took pretty much all advice offered to me. But out on the roads, you probably can't tell me jack ····, unless I know and respect you.

And if I'm really being honest with myself, I know why: I know that I'm a better rider than most people out there; and I have to admit that deep down, I kind of feel like most everyone else out there are kind of idiots. So until I know for a fact that you have the requisite experience, sense, and bike-handling skills to be offering mighty-me any advice, I'm just going to assume you're a choad.

Again... this is just me being very candid here... I'm not trying to sound like an arrogant prick, I just think this is how our heads work. Off the cuff, anyway.

I'm with you on this and I personally don't think you're coming off as prickly or douchey.

I don't consider myself to be the best rider out there on the road nor do I claim to know everything there is about riding. However, I don't enjoy being given advice by total strangers especially in the middle of riding, especially in more stressful situations such as riding in the dark, blustery winds, rain, etc. If you're my riding buddy, fire up the advice at will but if I don't know you, I don't really care for what you have to say to be quite blunt.

I think a minor "issue" with cyclists is that they have a too strong sense of "community" at times. They think that just because you're a fellow cyclist, you are allowed a little bit more access to that person's personal space/business. That being said, this is just my opinion.

OP, just want to clarify that my comments above are not aimed at you; it's aimed at cyclists and how they relate to each other in general.

[eddief]

and you are a driver and you see me doing something where you think I might get killed, please feel free to roll down your window and say something like "I am concerned about your safety and would like to suggest that you consider ____.

[zap]

I guess my understanding of giving advice is different. I told him my observations and didn't say anything about riding a certain way or to do anything. I really only just told him I was worried about him and it looked like he was going to get clipped by the cars going straight. *shrug* There wasn't much time to say anything else as the light turned green shortly after.

As other posters noted, being the driver, during the act of motoring/cycling and limited time, you (the motorist) are at the least going to be ignored. It's the auto bad mentality many cyclists have.

I learned this one day last year. The situation ended up being a one way conversation no matter how much I tried to say I'm a cyclist, event organizer (USCF), etc. I suspect that if I had this conversation with this bloke at a social event that he would have understood the problem.

[snah]

and you are a driver and you see me doing something where you think I might get killed, please feel free to roll down your window and say something like "I am concerned about your safety and would like to suggest that you consider ____.

Heck, if someone actually said ^^^ to me, I might actually listen. Been riding for the better part of 20 years, never heard this from a motorist, would be a welcome change to "Get off the road a**h*l*!!".

[malcolm]

I had an interesting experience while in my car with cyclists the other day. The entrance to my neighborhood is a very steep short hill that occasionally attracts cyclists. I was leaving my house meaning I would be driving up the hill and about halfway to the hill two guys on bikes are stopped in a driveway removing a back wheel. I pull to the edge and roll down the window and they immediately start profusely apologizing for blocking my drive, not my house, I'm like wait a minute guys I just live down the street and was stopping to see if you have everything you need to fix your problem as I've got a shops worth of tools just a couple houses down. Well they were just swapping wheels to try out one another's hoops, but were just flabbergasted that someone in a car would stop to offer help. All in all a good experience for both, I was surprised by how they immediately assumed I was mad at them and they were shocked I just wanted to help. Strange world we live in.

[eddief]

and you can see that "us" has little chance to get there. much more excitement in being angry, fearful, and carrying a gun.

Heck, if someone actually said ^^^ to me, I might actually listen. Been riding for the better part of 20 years, never heard this from a motorist, would be a welcome change to "Get off the road a**h*l*!!".

[beeatnik]

I'm with you on this and I personally don't think you're coming off as prickly or douchey.

I don't consider myself to be the best rider out there on the road nor do I claim to know everything there is about riding. However, I don't enjoy being given advice by total strangers especially in the middle of riding, especially in more stressful situations such as riding in the dark, blustery winds, rain, etc. If you're my riding buddy, fire up the advice at will but if I don't know you, I don't really care for what you have to say to be quite blunt.

I think a minor "issue" with cyclists is that they have a too strong sense of "community" at times. They think that just because you're a fellow cyclist, you are allowed a little bit more access to that person's personal space/business. That being said, this is just my opinion.

OP, just want to clarify that my comments above are not aimed at you; it's aimed at cyclists and how they relate to each other in general.

Don't think the OP was giving riding advice. Sounds like he was giving the rider a heads up. From the OP's description of the intersection, I would guess the incident occurred in Orange County (or Ventura Co). If the cyclist was about the get clipped at Intersection 1, there's a good chance he would be putting himself at risk at the next major intersection.

[brando]

And some us wonder why the general public thinks cyclists are a------s....

The general public also thinks other drivers are a------s....

[bikinchris]

It's everywhere. Lady today told me she was eating at a restaurant and the lady on her right had her purse hanging behind her chair, open with her wallet right on top. She told that she shouldn't do that and was cursed out for her effort.

[rw229]

In generally folks don't appreciate unsolicited advice. In my experience cyclists interacting with cars are probably already in a code orange/red mindset and will be even less receptive... even if your just telling them they're saddle bag isn't zipped and stuff is falling out.

It's everywhere. Lady today told me she was eating at a restaurant and the lady on her right had her purse hanging behind her chair, open with her wallet right on top. She told that she shouldn't do that and was cursed out for her effort.

I wish someone could drill that point in to my wife's head. I'm surprised (and thankful) she has lost her wallet yet. :(

[giverdada]

you're up against a lot, man, rolling down your window while sitting in a car and talking to someone on two wheels. likely, we're all on defence when we are in either position, and it's about context more than the actual situation.

my favourite method is the unsolicited compliment. it tends to dissolve the defensiveness and maybe or maybe not open it up to further discussion wherein you can say what you really wanted to say. if not, at least you engaged in a favorable interaction with a rider/driver. this is awesome. roll down the window, say, 'hey, that's a nice frame, man! c50 with b-stays? awesome!…' (obviously, i have no idea if such a frame even exists.) then he responds and then maybe you chat/mention you were looking out for him back there at that intersection where you frequently ride and have to deal with unaware drivers etc. etc….

just a thought.

i've take to waving/knocking on windows of cars with taillights out, just to give them a friendly reminder that they have a light out. no need to engage in it, but it's a positive interaction (and might save them a ticket) between rider and driver, and we need as many of those as possible. good on ya.

[twangston73]

It is hard to make too much out of a short interaction. He may have figured he was following the rules and therefore immune to a comment that, however helpfully intended, could be construed as criticism.

[Tony T]

Shoulda told him to learn how to use clipless pedals ;)

[unterhausen]

I have to work at this, I"m a little tired of stupid and unsolicited advice. Not that the OP fits in that category, sounds like a cogent observation. Some guy that passed me while going twice the speed limit slowed down to tell me he thought my left turn was dangerous. I really had to control myself from cussing him out -- there is no way it would have been dangerous had he been following the law. I'm getting better at that, mostly because I figured out that cursing people leaves me feeling worse about myself. I don't flip off people that honk anymore either, I just wave to let them know I heard them but I'm not changing what I'm doing

[kevinvc]

There is such an extreme power differential between someone on a bike, probably <300 lbs., and someone in a car, probably around 4,000 lbs. Despite intentions or how the message is delivered, it's almost impossible for someone in a motor vehicle to initiate a conversation and not have it come across as threatening.

The cyclist probably saw the speed of cross traffic, was aware of the poor lighting and was already nervous about being exposed so long during the turn while having trouble locking into his pedals. It's likely he was already frazzled and the OP's message, despite best intentions, was inferred as unhelpful at best and somewhat menacing at worst.

[Dead Man]

Re-reading the OP, I'm further convinced that if "blame" can be assigned, it's with him.

Dude feels like he knows how to ride a bike. He has thought about all of the decisions he makes while riding the bike- like where he likes to be in the lane while waiting for the light, and why, and has reasoned that he likes to be where he likes to be for his own reasons.

He was probably at least a little embarrassed about mis-clipping - nobody likes to look like a noob, but you feel like that's what you look like when you ···· up a clip (I know I do).

Then along comes some dude contradicting your own well-reasoned decisions about what is and isn't safe on the bike, and he's claiming to be a cyclist, and probably thinks you're a noob because you missed your pedal clip off the line........

How can you NOT understand how he wouldn't be receptive to you?

I don't mean this with any hostility, here from the comfort of my comfy desk chair (not on a bike in the middle of the night), but you gotta just keep your "advice" to yourself. Guys might or might not know what they're doing, but the implication that they don't is almost always going to be insulting.

[Waldo]

When I'm bike commuting in traffic, unsolicited advice from a stranger in the car is the last thing I seek.