Full Suspension Mountain Bikes

[nmrt]

I have been enamoured with all the technology popping on FS bikes. Since, I only own a Ti hardtail, I feel I'm missing out on something. So, I went to demo a few FS bikes this summer and found that the "top of the line" bikes (e.g., Pivot Mach 5.7) had quite a bit of pedal bob when I stood up to climb. I found this to be disconcerting especially since I am used to a hardtail. But I loved the FS technology on the descent.

Now, here is my question: Are there any FS bikes with little to no pedal bob? Or is it just the nature of the beast that the FS bike is.

BTW, I am 5'8'' and 145 lb -- so, not too crazy about 29ers. Also, I realize the advantage in having the FSbike move up and down a bit on the ascent. But I just find this movement disconcerting.

Thanks for the input.

[norcalbiker]

I was told that 29er is almost as good as FS. No idea why or how.

[fatallightning]

I spend a lot more time in the saddle pedaling on my FS, you don't need to stand as much to keep traction, minimizing bob. Otherwise something with a DW Link/VPP should have a little less bob under pedaling. My BMC fourstroke (a VPP bike) pedals much better then my Scott Spark (single pivot/faux bar) Maybe some of the BRAIN Specialized FSR bikes, but that's more because of platform dampening.

[malcolm]

I spend a lot more time in the saddle pedaling on my FS, you don't need to stand as much to keep traction, minimizing bob. Otherwise something with a DW Link/VPP should have a little less bob under pedaling. My BMC fourstroke (a VPP bike) pedals much better then my Scott Spark (single pivot/faux bar) Maybe some of the BRAIN Specialized FSR bikes, but that's more because of platform dampening.

My turner with DW link doesn't feel like it has too much bob. I almost never stand to climb on the mtn bike, except for short periods to power over obstacles.

I've just started riding a 650b Ti hardtail. The only place I really miss the rear suspension is in some of the really long rock gardens, some really rocky down hills and every now in then low speed flat faced obstacles hit a just the right speed and angle seem to sap more momentum than on the fully suspended bike. All in all I don't miss it as much as I thought.

[Kirk Pacenti]

I have been enamoured with all the technology popping on FS bikes. Since, I only own a Ti hardtail, I feel I'm missing out on something.

You are! ;)

So, I went to demo a few FS bikes this summer and found that the "top of the line" bikes (e.g., Pivot Mach 5.7) had quite a bit of pedal bob when I stood up to climb. I found this to be disconcerting especially since I am used to a hardtail. But I loved the FS technology on the descent.

First being a demo, there's a very good chance that the suspension wasn't ideally tuned for you. Second, you do have to adjust your riding, you can't hop on and ride them like a hardtail and get the best performance. As others have said you'll generally end up climbing in the saddle.

That said, you can also get a remote to lock out the suspension on climbs if you really prefer / need to stand.

Now, here is my question: Are there any FS bikes with little to no pedal bob? Or is it just the nature of the beast that the FS bike is.

BTW, I am 5'8'' and 145 lb -- so, not too crazy about 29ers. Also, I realize the advantage in having the FSbike move up and down a bit on the ascent. But I just find this movement disconcerting.

Thanks for the input.

As fatallightning said, the DW link designs and some VPP bikes do have a firmer ride, some might say at the cost of small bump compliance. But if your coming off a HT and getting your first FS, it might be a great place to start.

Good luck, and have fun!

Cheers,
KP

[dogdriver]

Yeah, I'm on my second Turner DW Link bike (rode a Sultan for 4 years, now a Czar) and am very impressed with the rear suspension. As Mr P said, it is very important to properly tune the suspension. I go a little "stiff" for my weight, as I'd prefer to sacrifice a little small bump suspension in favor of being able to stand with minimum "bob'. This, however, is largely due to my laziness-- when its tuned correctly, its 'dern near perfect.

Agreed that some other bikes/earlier models did not work as well.

[crownjewelwl]

you wont notice any pedal bob climbing in the woods!

also, everything KP said...

[carlineng]

Double boingers are amazing. So much more traction and control on descents. For a pretty strong climber like myself, I'd MUCH prefer to lose a little bit of energy on the climbs for the benefit of a faster, safer descent. Santa Cruz bikes have VPP rear boingers. Several of my friends have the 5010, and it is a sweet lookin' bike.

[David Kirk]

I have little to add aside from the fact that with just a few miles under your wheels you will start pedaling and riding a FS bike differently than a rigid bike.

At first you ride the FS bike passively and it will bob and you will allow yourself to run into bigger stuff........but once you have a feel for it the bob will be greatly reduced and you will start to actively use the suspension by loading the bike to get it to unweight for stuff and to get even better grip. It's the difference between putting a lump of static weight on the bike and using that weight to influence the behavior of the bike.

There is much to be learned when first riding a FS bike and huge gains to be made.

dave

[jh_on_the_cape]

+1 what Pacenti said.

The best is to have both bikes. You ride them differently so it is fun to switch back and forth. It improves the riding of each.

Technique is key, as is setup. Most people take a few rides to dial in the suspension. I ride with a shock pump for a few rides. Lots of knobs to turn, too.
It's super helpful to ride with someone familiar with setting up suspension. Ride a bit, then stop and say what's good/bad. "Bobbed on the climb" means a little more air, a little more compression damping.
Rides too firm, a little less air.
Lots to learn. But don't spend too much effort thinking about it or it can spoil a ride.

[carlineng]

I have little to add aside from the fact that with just a few miles under your wheels you will start pedaling and riding a FS bike differently than a rigid bike.

At first you ride the FS bike passively and it will bob and you will allow yourself to run into bigger stuff........but once you have a feel for it the bob will be greatly reduced and you will start to actively use the suspension by loading the bike to get it to unweight for stuff and to get even better grip. It's the difference between putting a lump of static weight on the bike and using that weight to influence the behavior of the bike.

There is much to be learned when first riding a FS bike and huge gains to be made.

dave

+10000

I come from a road cycling background, and have been riding mountain bikes for the past 3 years. Only recently have I started to actually feel comfortable on a mountain bike and really understand what it means to be dynamic on the bike. It's a really strange and joyful sensation, more akin to downhill skiing or snowboarding than road cycling.

[nmrt]

Thanks all for the helpful feedback.
So, I guess, I can't just hop on the FS bike and start pedalling away hoping I'd get a similar ride as a hardtail. :)

With all that has been told here, i am going to go demo few FS bikes, with a more open mind.

But now, the question is, should I get a XC FS bike or a trail bike. Hmmm...
I currently have a 26'' Ti hardtail and a 29'' singlespeed rigid.

[carlineng]

If you've already got some climbers in your stable, get the trail bike! No need to get a bike that overlaps with what you already have.

[JAGI410]

Get a 650b FS bike then! I plan on getting a Santa Cruz Bronson or On-One Codeine 650B next summer

[John H.]

Where do you ride?
How much climbing?
How technical is the riding?
How good are your skills?
A trail bike can be overkill for many, but you can find some middle ground.
I am about your size, I have been riding a Santa Crux 5010 for a little over a year now. For me it checks all the boxes. I might want something sharper if I was racing but I have it built up at 23 lb with an XC type build (sram XX1, light wheels, and no dropper).
I find that the 650b is way easier for me to handle- especially in technical situations and in switchbacks.
But like I said it depends on the questions that I asked above.
I would also add that you can't tell much from a short test ride. You really need to set up the suspension properly and spend a couple hours riding trails similar to your normal rides.

[tele]

I have been riding a full squish for a few weeks now after a 26er hardtail all year and a full 26er rigid before that. I also went whole hog into a 29er. I am only 5'6" and 155 and was not sure about the FS.

I am a total believer in both! I have learned to sit more on climbs than before and the bigger wheels are amazing at rolling over rocks and gnarl. I bought a Rocky Mountain XC bike off a buddy and it has shocks that have different settings like JH mentioned: I haven't messed to much with the different settings but will research things over the winter.

[nmrt]

I ride in Colorado -- mostly in the Front Range. I do make a couple of trips to Fruita etc.
Honestly, I do not have a lot of skill. But I ride hard and overtake many people. But that is because I am one rock away from crashing because of my lack of skills heh hehe


Where do you ride?
How much climbing?
How technical is the riding?
How good are your skills?
A trail bike can be overkill for many, but you can find some middle ground.
I am about your size, I have been riding a Santa Crux 5010 for a little over a year now. For me it checks all the boxes. I might want something sharper if I was racing but I have it built up at 23 lb with an XC type build (sram XX1, light wheels, and no dropper).
I find that the 650b is way easier for me to handle- especially in technical situations and in switchbacks.
But like I said it depends on the questions that I asked above.
I would also add that you can't tell much from a short test ride. You really need to set up the suspension properly and spend a couple hours riding trails similar to your normal rides.

[John H.]

By your description a 650b with a medium amount of travel would be a good way to go.

I ride in Colorado -- mostly in the Front Range. I do make a couple of trips to Fruita etc.
Honestly, I do not have a lot of skill. But I ride hard and overtake many people. But that is because I am one rock away from crashing because of my lack of skills heh hehe

[Dave Ferris]

Personally I don't dig the new spaceship look of basically all the FS and even hardtail 29ers & 650Bs.

I'm certainly not a hard core mountain bike guy , but it seems all the new stuff is designed more for going faster downhill and being able to jump off stuff with greater ease. Neither one of those aspects of mtn. biking appeal to me at all.

I'm about getting off the streets of LA, away from the maniacs in the Mercedes, Beemers and SUVs, getting my hear rate up on the climbs and descending safely. And get a good (safe) cross training workout from my main sport- running.

I can't see how going faster downhill will improve your V2O max or overall cardiovascular fitness. Maybe I'm missing out on something outside from the adrenaline rush from bombing downhill faster - if so please someone enlighten me.

I do like the look of the some of the Ventanna cycles - the El Salt & El Rey. The Alpino is borderline for me.

I have an older '04 Ellsworth Truth that I rode for years before getting a Potts 29er recently. I'm not very good with technical stuff, mostly stay on the fireroads but they are very steep around here.

The climbing and efficiency between the two are like night and day. It rolls through all the nasty rock gardens and sand much better then the Ellsworth. And yes, I do realize the new FS are like night and day compared to my older Truth. Again I guess it's more the new school look as anything.

If I were to go back to FS, that Eriscksen/ Brad Bingham 650B FS would be my first choice. Although I could see that bike easily going for 12K built up with good stuff.

I am all for safely descending and not getting too beat up. The fireroads around here in LA are so rocky, dry and rutted from the drought , I've taken some hits bone rattling hits up on Dirt Mullholand on the Potts in recent months where I thought maybe I should be on a Turner Flux Ver. 3, or something similar.

At 61 I might be singin' a different tune in a few years and want the extra squish because of my arthritic neck.

[John H.]

Bingham/Eriksen 650b would be an "ultimate" mtb!

[mod6]

I have a Niner RDO, carbon frame with four inches of travel. Pretty sure it Niner interpretation of DW link. I ride a lot from my house on the road to the trails. I'm amazed every ride how little bob there is while on the road. Stiff fast frame that build into 23 pound range pretty easy without crazy light parts. As other have said I would kept the ti hardtail and add FS to the stable if possible. Great to have second ride especially if you live in a place like me were you get a ton of junk on the trail in the fall. Buddy broke a seat stay on his carbon hardtail last weekend kicked up stick.

[Kirk007]

I here the new refined Yeti linkage is the bees knees, you're in Colorado, they make very nice bikes, I've been very impressed with their customer support, and not everyone and their uncle has one (well at least not in Washington).

That said I just sold my Yeti 575 and bought a second 29er hardtail, this one setup with SS. Of course then I get talked into going to Stevens Pass and riding downhill trails on a 29er hardtail, which I wouldn't recommend. If I was to reinvest in FS a Yeti SB would be an easy choice.

[carlineng]

I can't see how going faster downhill will improve your V2O max or overall cardiovascular fitness. Maybe I'm missing out on something outside from the adrenaline rush from bombing downhill faster - if so please someone enlighten me.


Downhill runs do require a lot of fitness, especially if you're pumping corners or slaloming. Think downhill skiing... it's not just about pointing the skis downhill and gaining speed. In the giant slalom, you're basically doing a power squat around every gate.

http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2014/sochi-olympics/giant-slalom.html

Similar principles apply in DH MTB.

[jamie789]

I've never had a fs bike either. I want to try one of the new Lapierre Zesty 427's with the E:i shock. Maybe that's silly but there's no way I can afford on anyway. I think I'll just put the energy into bmx.

[Kirk Pacenti]

Downhill runs do require a lot of fitness, especially if you're pumping corners or slaloming. Think downhill skiing... it's not just about pointing the skis downhill and gaining speed. In the giant slalom, you're basically doing a power squat around every gate.

http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2014/sochi-olympics/giant-slalom.html

Similar principles apply in DH MTB.

Yeah, it's much more demanding than most people would assume.

Fwiw, I used to train with a heart rate monitor in the mid-90's. I would routinely get higher BPMs on DH runs than XC climbs. I chalk most of that up to a DH fueled adrenaline rush - and the fact that my pain threshold for really pushing it on XC climbs was pretty abysmal.

Cheers,
KP

[djg21]

I have been enamoured with all the technology popping on FS bikes. Since, I only own a Ti hardtail, I feel I'm missing out on something. So, I went to demo a few FS bikes this summer and found that the "top of the line" bikes (e.g., Pivot Mach 5.7) had quite a bit of pedal bob when I stood up to climb. I found this to be disconcerting especially since I am used to a hardtail. But I loved the FS technology on the descent.

Now, here is my question: Are there any FS bikes with little to no pedal bob? Or is it just the nature of the beast that the FS bike is.

BTW, I am 5'8'' and 145 lb -- so, not too crazy about 29ers. Also, I realize the advantage in having the FSbike move up and down a bit on the ascent. But I just find this movement disconcerting.

Thanks for the input.

I have an older (2008) 26" Spec Epic with Brain technology. http://www.specialized.com/us/en/technology/brain

I'm 6'3" and 215lbs. With the shock sag set up properly, I get no bob whatsoever.

[Dave Ferris]

Downhill runs do require a lot of fitness, especially if you're pumping corners or slaloming. Think downhill skiing... it's not just about pointing the skis downhill and gaining speed. In the giant slalom, you're basically doing a power squat around every gate.

http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2014/sochi-olympics/giant-slalom.html

Similar principles apply in DH MTB.

Oh I never question the astonishing skill, extreme core strength and balance that DHing requires.

Again though, all that prowess doesn't fall under the fitness category that I do Mtn. biking (or road biking) for. I do do squats, lunges, step-ups, and other one legged strength exercises on balance/wobble boards and Bosu balls (mainly running specific) at the gym.
And highly value their importance in a well rounded fitness program. Doing all that stuff for so long as been a huge reason I've been abler to stay running at age 61 after almost 35 years and probably around 65,000 miles.

But I've got too much to lose (being a pro musician/pianist) gambling with going that fast downhill on a bike - no matter how advanced the geo technology, or my skill level. Just ain't worth the gamble for the time I have invested in my ax...:) :cool:

A piano player friend of mine (who's a few years older then me at 64) frequently goes up to Mammoth for DH skiing. He's had quite a few mishaps involving legs, hips and ankles but luckily nothing were he's screwed up his hands, fingers or shoulders.

Personally I think he's nuts... :D..but each to their own.

[malcolm]

Oh I never question the astonishing skill, extreme core strength and balance that DHing requires.

Again though, all that prowess doesn't fall under the fitness category that I do Mtn. biking (or road biking) for. I do do squats, lunges, step-ups, and other one legged strength exercises on balance/wobble boards and Bosu balls (mainly running specific) at the gym.
And highly value their importance in a well rounded fitness program. Doing all that stuff for so long as been a huge reason I've been abler to stay running at age 61 after almost 35 years and probably around 65,000 miles.

But I've got too much to lose (being a pro musician/pianist) gambling with going that fast downhill on a bike - no matter how advanced the geo technology, or my skill level. Just ain't worth the gamble for the time I have invested in my ax...:) :cool:

A piano player friend of mine (who's a few years older then me at 64) frequently goes up to Mammoth for DH skiing. He's had quite a few mishaps involving legs, hips and ankles but luckily nothing were he's screwed up his hands, fingers or shoulders.

Personally I think he's nuts... :D..but each to their own.

Dave I crashed my Turner on some very fast twisty single track and did something to the extensor mechanism of my left index finger and some 8 weeks later it still hurts to make a fist or laterally stress the finger. I make noise on the guitar and couldn't begin to use that finger in my abuse of the instrument. So protect those hands/fingers and take your time going down those hills.

[weisan]

I still haven't make it over to FS yet.
In fact, I just got back an old friend two days ago from someone who was borrowing it. It's a GT Karakorum that my parents bought for me back in the early 90s. It was also my first MTB so there's some sentimental value there. Anyhow, it's got this hideously cool orange paint job with black splash stripes all over... It's hideous but I love it! And the best thing about the paint... It's almost indestructible. I just stripped it down and washed it a while ago. Look at it! I mean, it hasn't age a bit. :D
The question now is.... What should I do with it?
I do have the parts to give it a nice "upgrade" to 9-speed. Do I want to slap a set of semi-slicks on it to turn it into a commuter? I already have one. I was even thinking about doing a 650b conversion or maybe put on 700cc wheels, it would be interesting to see how they change the way it rides. What do y'all think?

Below is the "before" and "after" giving it a bubble bath.

[Ken Robb]

My 1989 MB-3 is stock except for Rivendell pull-back bars and semi-slick tires. It makes a cool grocery-getter, cruiser, urban-assault bike. I wouldn't try to make one of these beasts something they are not with too many modifications.

[josephr]

Like others have said -- riding a FS mtn bike is completely different...even the basic FS has lockout ability on the front and rear shocks. I'd suggest this bike just didn't have enough air in the shocks for your weight. I think the guys giving the demo rides set 'em up low on purpose as the softness gives that happy bouncy-house feeling. After riding a few times, you'll learn to ride on higher shock pressures.

[weisan]

I wouldn't try to make one of these beasts something they are not with too many modifications.
Good advice, thanks ken-pal. Hope you are continuing to make progress in your recovery.

[Kirk Pacenti]

Good advice, thanks ken-pal. Hope you are continuing to make progress in your recovery.

Would make a great commuter. It *could* easily be converted to 650b road wheels with the use of Paul cantis.

Cheers,
KP

[Ken Robb]

Good advice, thanks ken-pal. Hope you are continuing to make progress in your recovery.

Thanks, I am down to only two PT sessions per week. I now have to measure progress by the week rather than daily but progress continues and I'm told the medical folks may turn me loose in a month or so. Merry Xmas indeed!

[JAGI410]

Oh man that Karakorum is so sweet!