Another disc brake thread......

[macaroon]

I'm debating whether to order a custom steel disc frame, but I havent really paid attention to the developments of road disc brakes, hence I have a few questions:

Are the rear hubs now 135mm wide as per MTB hubs? Is this likely to change?

What sort of mount is used? IS or post?

What size rotors are typical? 160mm?

What's regarded as the best mechanical caliper? Will this work with Campag levers?

Does anything need to be taken into consideration regarding the chainline with the 135mm rear end?

Does the steerer tube need to be some oversized tapered affair? Or will a straight 1 & 1/8th work?

Whats a light/stiff disc only road rim? I'd consider Archetypes, but is there anything better?

Where's the best place to mount the caliper? Seatstay or chainstay?

I think that's all for now!

Thanks

[saab2000]

Can't answer all your questions but if this is a new bike, definitely go 135 mm on the spacing. There are no chain line negatives. My Indy Fab has 135 spacing and disc brakes and Shimano 9000 components. It works perfectly.

I use TRP Spyre mechanical brakes and they work well for me. I'm sure they'd work fine with Campagnolo levers too. Just make sure you use compressionless brake housing. That makes a huge difference.

Independent Fabrication built my frame and they make a steel version too. Talk to them. Mine turned out perfectly and they know all the details as far as mounting and other construction details. I'm very pleased with how mine turned out.

One more thing - I would strongly consider hydraulic brakes from Shimano. They get rave reviews. I hope to switch when the R685 mechanically shifted, hydraulic levers become available.

[kramnnim]

I'm using TRP Spyres with Campy levers, they work great. Yes, need compressionless housing. Standard seems to be 140 rear, 160 front.

There are disc specific Enve 3.4s!

[d_douglas]

Yes, as above. I am still in the dark ages using BB7 road calipers and they work fine, but I agree with Jim, if you have the budget, check out the Shimano Hydros. I am a Campy guy as well, but these brakes make me consider switching to Shimano.

As for rims, there are tons of options. Narrower 29er rims work well too. I have two disc wheel sets for 700c - rims are Velocity Dyad and Stans Iron Cross. My buddy used HED Belgiums and they looked great. I use the rim brake version on my road bike and they are very nice rims.

Lucky you - I am envious of all these new bikes people are purchasing ;)

[oldpotatoe]

I'm debating whether to order a custom steel disc frame, but I havent really paid attention to the developments of road disc brakes, hence I have a few questions:

Are the rear hubs now 135mm wide as per MTB hubs? Is this likely to change?

What sort of mount is used? IS or post?

What size rotors are typical? 160mm?

What's regarded as the best mechanical caliper? Will this work with Campag levers?

Does anything need to be taken into consideration regarding the chainline with the 135mm rear end?

Does the steerer tube need to be some oversized tapered affair? Or will a straight 1 & 1/8th work?

Whats a light/stiff disc only road rim? I'd consider Archetypes, but is there anything better?

Where's the best place to mount the caliper? Seatstay or chainstay?

I think that's all for now!

Thanks

I'd certainly talk to the builder. Lots changing , rapidly. A lot of thru axle stuff, riad/cross frames as well. Where and what type of caliper mount is something the builder will have info on. And that may have an effect on rotor size and whether or not adapters for larger rotors are possible.

TRP mech work fine with Campag levers, BTW.

[dan682]

I recently built up a Moots Psychlo X disc, used all Campy parts with Avid BB7 brakes and 160mm rotors - not the best brakes but they work well. Rear 160mm is definitely overkill for me at 145lbs.

For the wheels I used Pacenti CL25 29er rims - disc only, pretty light, I think they're 420g. On the road I'm using 25c GP4000s, which measure 28mm on those rims, at 60F/70R psi. The rims have been great, probably can't handle much higher pressure though.

[gone]

+1 on talking to builders, especially those who've built a bunch of disc brake equipped bikes as it's more likely they're following what's happening in a rapidly evolving area.

Personally, I'd go with a head tube that accommodates a tapered fork, likely 1.5/1.25, and a thru axle, post mount design. The braking forces on the fork exerted by a good disc brake (+1 also on the soon to be released Shimano RS685 hydraulic) are huge so the ability to handle it really matters. Plus there are many more options available for tapered disc forks.

[notoriousdjw]

I gave up on BB7s after a constant battle with the "turkey gobble" braking noise in the wet. Not everyone has that problem but if you ride in a lot of wet muck (cross racing, seattle 8 months of the year) I think it's tough to prevent pad/rotor contamination. By contrast the Shimano BR-CX77 mechanical discs and ice tech rotors have been silent through summer, cross season, and now the beginnings of the rainy season.

On the hydraulic front Sram is claiming to have banished the turkey gobble but I'll either wait another year to let others experiment or maybe get shimano. This could be my excuse to try Di2 I guess.

As for some of your other questions, I'd go 135 or maybe even 142 with through-axle. Post mount is simpler and avoids one more bracket because all the calipers are made for post mount. Pacenti has a new disc-only rim that looks cool. Seatstay mounts work fine if you don't have a rack. There are brackets to fit around it if you need to. I think the chainstay mount limits rotor size choice a bit but the back doesn't need a ton of brake (160mm max). Cables run a bit differently if you are picky about that stuff.

I'll also echo the compressionless housing recommendation. For me, Yokozuna reaction cables improved the lever feel greatly.

[foo_fighter]

If you are going steel, go Thru-axle with a tapered fork. Something like a Whisky No. 9 road fork. 12x142(same chainline as 135mm) is pretty much the standard for rear. Paragon polydrops are a really nice pre-made drop out option.
If you aren't a weight weenie, go for full hydro. If you are a weight-weenie(well you probably wouldn't be using steel).
In terms of performance Hydro(sram and shimano have integrated hydro levers) > HY/RD > Spyre > BB7.

If you want to go Campy, then consider the TRP HY/RD calipers.
160/140 is a good combo but Shimano claims 140mm all around with the Freeza rotors work fine. Go for a center lock wheelset for that reason. Either White Industries CLD-11 or DT swiss 240 or 350 center locks.

[dustyrider]

You're shooting at a moving/changing standard. I'd stay away from disks on a custom build for another year or three. I'd hate to build up a 135mm spec'd rear with everyone going to 142mm. Or be stuck with a straight steerer tube while everyone is going tapered. Never mind which BB... Maybe look to a stock bike with discs and get some real world experience. Then you can work with a builder and talk in concrete terms rather than abstract ones.

[GeorgeTSquirrel]

TRP Spyre would be my choice. Hy/Rd doesn't work as well with Campy, or so I hear (and I don't really like hydraulics anyways, so I doubt I'd like the hybrid). BB7 are runners up, but overpriced when you consider the improved design of the TRPs.

Most frames currently being made are 135mm o.l.d.

chainstay vs seatstay... doesn't matter, unless you have a rack, in which case get chainstay mounts which don't get in the way.

Steering taper doesn't matter, you can find a fork for either.

Chainline isn't as good, but no sense in trying to compensate for it.

[eippo1]

One think I'll add is to go with 160 mm rotors on the Spyres. I had 140 mm in the rear and since the dual piston is so wide, it hit the spokes being down close to the hub. No issues with the 160 and the braking is better to boot.

[yashcha]

Excited for you on this project. Like others have said, the standards are changing all the time. When I ordered my custom road disc frameset two years ago there were not as many choices as there are now. I Included my answers below your questions.

I'm debating whether to order a custom steel disc frame, but I havent really paid attention to the developments of road disc brakes, hence I have a few questions:

Are the rear hubs now 135mm wide as per MTB hubs? Is this likely to change?
135mm seems fairly standard. Gives you a lot of options with mtb hubs.

What sort of mount is used? IS or post?
Not sure.

What size rotors are typical? 160mm?
With Shimano Freeza rotors, 140mm size work very well, front and rear. At 135 pounds, I have had no problems on numerous 30 minute sketchy descents.

What's regarded as the best mechanical caliper? Will this work with Campag levers?
I use the shimano cx77 brakes. With slick cables and compressionless housing, the action is so light, and has a really solid feel.

Does anything need to be taken into consideration regarding the chainline with the 135mm rear end?
Not that I know of. I use a 39/53 rotor rings, 11-26 with no problems.

Does the steerer tube need to be some oversized tapered affair? Or will a straight 1 & 1/8th work?
My framebuilder recommended going with the 44mm headtube with the 1.125-1.5 tapered enve road disc mated with the King inset 7 headset. Really stiff, really responsive front end. We also used a wishbone rear stay.

Whats a light/stiff disc only road rim? I'd consider Archetypes, but is there anything better?
I am using dt240 hubs laced to archetype rims. My next wheelset will be built with the new Pacenti SL25 disc specific rims.

Where's the best place to mount the caliper? Seatstay or chainstay.
I have mine mounted on the seatstay, but I think it looks cleaner when it is on the chainstay.

I think that's all for now!

Thanks

[foon]

Excited for you on this project. Like others have said, the standards are changing all the time. When I ordered my custom road disc frameset two years ago there were not as many choices as there are now. I Included my answers below your questions.

What levers are you using with the cx77?

[yashcha]

What levers are you using with the cx77?

1st generation Sram Red, although I dream of 6800. Actually, I just realized I am still using the recalled cx75.

[kramnnim]

The Enve fork only comes in a 1.5" taper. I like mine a lot. 180g lighter than the OEM one it replaced.

[binouye]

TRP Spyre would be my choice. Hy/Rd doesn't work as well with Campy, or so I hear ....

Actually, I think the TRP Hy/Rd work very well with Campy ergos -- I have that combination on 2 bikes now, having changed both over from BB7s. However, it took a little extra effort. I had to take off the reservoir covers, add several drops of mineral oil, then put the covers back on and wipe everything clean. That simple change (explained in several youtube videos) got rid of the excess initial lever travel and improved brake feel.

I haven't used the new Shimano 685s, but have the M785 on a bike and they are great, and I hear the road version is similarly good. The TRP Hy/Rds aren't quite as nice, but I like them a lot better than the BB7s and better than the Spyres. 160 rotors are fine, or 160/140, and not all rotors or pads are created equal.

For rims, I just got a pair of the new Pacenti SL25s -- the disc only version of the SL23s. They look great, and I'm excited to build up the wheels with them. Rear hub just shipped to me today (WI CLD, Campy), and I'll post something on the new wheels once they're built up and ridden a bit.

[d_douglas]

.

Rear hub just shipped to me today (WI CLD, Campy), and I'll post something on the new wheels once they're built up and ridden a bit.

wow - those are nice hubs! I wish my Campy/disc bike had those!!

[macaroon]

Thanks for the responses. I don't think I'll be going full hydro, I'd prefer a mechanical setup so I can use them with my existing shifters. Plus, I domn't like bleeding brakes.

Perhaps it is worth holding out for a while yet to see what happens with axle standards and what not?

Personally I'd prefer QR front and rear, never had a problem with it on my MTB with discs so don't see why it'd be any different for the road. Faffing with through axles does not appeal to me at all.

As some of you suggested, perhaps a cheap off the peg frame might be best to get going with first, see how things pan out?

[foo_fighter]

It's harder to get things lined up on a stiff road fork(that and no suspension to absorb flex)....so you'll get more zzzing zzzing when standing. The velonews technical editor claims this is eliminated with thru-axles. At the very least take a look a thru bolt. Actually, the R.A.T. thru-axles look easier to use than standard QRs.



Personally I'd prefer QR front and rear, never had a problem with it on my MTB with discs so don't see why it'd be any different for the road. Faffing with through axles does not appeal to me at all.

[ergott]

I have standard QR hubs for my bike. The fork is carbon and I get no rub at all.

I highly recommend hydro, especially since Shimano offers a mechanical shifting group for their hydro levers. Sure you have to bleed them, but they are simply better than cable brakes. Bleeding is real easy once you do it once.

If you get a bike with QR front and 135mm qr rear you won't run out of parts anytime soon. The other standards are still in flux and are more likely to change leaving you stranded. Look at bottom brackets. You can still easily source English BBs a plenty. It's not going anywhere anytime soon despite what the bike bike companies tell you.

[p nut]

It's harder to get things lined up on a stiff road fork(that and no suspension to absorb flex)....so you'll get more zzzing zzzing when standing. The velonews technical editor claims this is eliminated with thru-axles. At the very least take a look a thru bolt. Actually, the R.A.T. thru-axles look easier to use than standard QRs.

My mountain bike is rigid with a springy front fork, and I've not experienced any rotor rub. It's a singlespeed, so I stand a lot. Thru axles may stiffen it up, but using good ol' Shimano QR skewers, it has never been a problem for me.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Thanks for the responses. I don't think I'll be going full hydro, I'd prefer a mechanical setup so I can use them with my existing shifters. Plus, I domn't like bleeding brakes.

Perhaps it is worth holding out for a while yet to see what happens with axle standards and what not?

Personally I'd prefer QR front and rear, never had a problem with it on my MTB with discs so don't see why it'd be any different for the road. Faffing with through axles does not appeal to me at all.

As some of you suggested, perhaps a cheap off the peg frame might be best to get going with first, see how things pan out?

I just got a 2014 Salsa Colossal 2 because I'm interested in road disc bikes. I was planning on getting the 2015 model, but I came across a 2014 that was too cheap to pass on.

It's got qr front and rear. (The 2015 has a front 15 mm thru axle.) It's got an ENVE carbon fork and I haven't had any disc rub so far.

I'm really enjoying it. I'm tempted to get an 11-speed drivetrain so I can get the Shimano hydro levers when they come out. I've got XTs on my mountain bike and they are the best brake I've ridden. I'd love to have them on my road bike, too.

[yashcha]

Thanks for the responses. I don't think I'll be going full hydro, I'd prefer a mechanical setup so I can use them with my existing shifters. Plus, I domn't like bleeding brakes.

Perhaps it is worth holding out for a while yet to see what happens with axle standards and what not?

Personally I'd prefer QR front and rear, never had a problem with it on my MTB with discs so don't see why it'd be any different for the road. Faffing with through axles does not appeal to me at all.

As some of you suggested, perhaps a cheap off the peg frame might be best to get going with first, see how things pan out?

If you are looking for more stiffness without committing to thru axles, you can get a thru bolt system, which I ended up going with.

DT, AmClassic, Hope hubs, stans...can be converted to 9mm thru bolts, which can be used with normal open ended dropouts. This system uses a quick release skewer that looks like a really thick skewer. I have heard this system is a really nice upgrade.

This page has some info on the benefits, as well as what the thru bolt looks like.
http://www.amclassic.com/en/products/components/9mm-and-10mm-thru-axle-quick-release

[ispy]

You're shooting at a moving/changing standard. I'd stay away from disks on a custom build for another year or three. I'd hate to build up a 135mm spec'd rear with everyone going to 142mm. Or be stuck with a straight steerer tube while everyone is going tapered. Never mind which BB... Maybe look to a stock bike with discs and get some real world experience. Then you can work with a builder and talk in concrete terms rather than abstract ones.

I'm in the same boat too trying to think through the options and predict the future. As for 135 vs 142 axles... recently spoke with Paragon Machine Works and they suggested that their slider dropouts offers the option to swap out 135 disc tab inserts for 142 width inserts. On paper this is appealing but not sure if this is asking the bike to do too much. Seems to me Swiss army knives never do any one thing particularly well.

[ergott]

I'm in the same boat too trying to think through the options and predict the future. As for 135 vs 142 axles... recently spoke with Paragon Machine Works and they suggested that their slider dropouts offers the option to swap out 135 disc tab inserts for 142 width inserts. On paper this is appealing but not sure if this is asking the bike to do too much. Seems to me Swiss army knives never do any one thing particularly well.

I wouldn't sweat it. My bike has QR 135mm and it is all the bike I need for getting rad. I just don't trust these fly by night "standards" that keep popping up. Perfect example, I can still use a 68mm shell frame with all the latest groupsets out there. All the other BB standards are an oxymoron of the phrase.

[gdw]

The Paragon sliding dropouts are exceptional and the way to go if you're planning to keep the frame for more than a few years. The inserts don't slip and allow you to switch to another standard for $40 or less.

[Neil]

We've built a lot of disc equipped bikes in the past few months, here's what's in the stand at the moment:

- Standard QR rear, 135mm spaced
- Tapered steerer, thru-axle front
- R-685 brakes, Ultegra 6800 group, 160 F/R (rear is a Powertap or it'd be 140 R though

A friend of mine has pointed out that technically all the road groups cranks are designed to be 2.5mm further out than they end up, due to the increased axle length, but as I said earlier, we've built a lot of disc-braked bikes now and that's not been an issue.

You can, kind of, get the skewers to match, if that matters to you (does to me!):

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7528/16308761285_f3c9a8b354_b.jpg

[vqdriver]

i think enough of these bikes are out there that all the changing setups have narrowed themselves down to a few pseudo-standards that you can build around.

135 qr rear
qr front or TA if prefab carbon deal.
IS mount rear
post or IS front, doesn't seem to matter
chainstay or seatstay will depend on if you want fender mounts and where you want to run the hose/cable
1 1/8' straight for a custom fork, or 44mm headtube to fit your preferred carbon fork

keep in mind that we're still kind of at the point that mtb parts are being adapted for road use. but i can't imagine that we'll need a 142 maxle in back.

the one thing that will change are the caliper offerings. i'm going with campy actuated hy/rd so i'll see how that goes. but if you like shimano or sram, give full hydro a go. either way, you should have the ability to run full cable housing or hose.

[vqdriver]

If you are looking for more stiffness without committing to thru axles, you can get a thru bolt system, which I ended up going with.

DT, AmClassic, Hope hubs, stans...can be converted to 9mm thru bolts, which can be used with normal open ended dropouts. This system uses a quick release skewer that looks like a really thick skewer. I have heard this system is a really nice upgrade.

This page has some info on the benefits, as well as what the thru bolt looks like.
http://www.amclassic.com/en/products/components/9mm-and-10mm-thru-axle-quick-release

i've been chewing on the 9mm thrubolt myself. but dt doesn't make an official adapter for my 350 hub. i may try out this "universal" converter for 15mm ta

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MTB-Tools-Mountain-Bike-15mm-Thru-Axle-to-9mm-Quick-Release-Wheel-Adapter-/251374805174?ssPageName=ADME:X:eRTM:US:1123

[Neil]

^Agree with that, one thing I forgot to add, we tuck the caliper inside the rear triangle, much neater that way.

Here's the most recent to come out of the workshop:

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10606214_383670651799832_4625163767135231370_n.jpg ?oh=3a2165ca24ba7be2e19d294160df3b3e&oe=555ACE71

(Which I am aware directly contradicts what I said about hydro and thru-axle).

[yashcha]

i've been chewing on the 9mm thrubolt myself. but dt doesn't make an official adapter for my 350 hub. i may try out this "universal" converter for 15mm ta

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MTB-Tools-Mountain-Bike-15mm-Thru-Axle-to-9mm-Quick-Release-Wheel-Adapter-/251374805174?ssPageName=ADME:X:eRTM:US:1123

I have never seen that converter before, I wish they would show it installed on a hub!

That is too bad that the 350 does not have the conversion kit because it is so easy to do on the 240. I think the extra stiffness is important because the tolerance between the brake pads and rotor is qute tight. What ever helps stiffen up that fork end hub interface is a Plus.

[vqdriver]

well, this thread reminded me so i just bought one off his listing. (cool guy btw, makes some neat odds and ends that are well liked by some mtbr members)

i'll put up a pic if i ever get my geekhouse built up. watch that thread.
hoping for some time this weekend but with the big game, we'll see.....

[crownjewelwl]

I have never seen that converter before, I wish they would show it installed on a hub!

That is too bad that the 350 does not have the conversion kit because it is so easy to do on the 240. I think the extra stiffness is important because the tolerance between the brake pads and rotor is qute tight. What ever helps stiffen up that fork end hub interface is a Plus.

Fyi...dt doesn't make the thru bolt conversion caps for 11speed

My shop had to do some drilling to make it work

[abalone]

The Paragon sliding dropouts are exceptional and the way to go if you're planning to keep the frame for more than a few years. The inserts don't slip and allow you to switch to another standard for $40 or less.


Ditto this. I recently talked to a framebuilder about doing a disc road bike with these modular Paragon dropouts and he says that Paragon is having some trouble keeping these things in stock because of the many builders who are getting orders from customers for these on their custom frames.

[yashcha]

Fyi...dt doesn't make the thru bolt conversion caps for 11speed

My shop had to do some drilling to make it work

That is good to know since I was planning to go 11 this year.

[macaroon]

I haven't ordered anything yet. It's on my to do list for sometime in February.

I've prety much narrowed it down to two options now; a semi custom frame with a 1&1/8th headtube (the forks it is supplied with are this size), QR's front and back, and a chainstay mounted caliper.

Or a new frame that's coming out which has the same "standards" as above but a tapered headtube. I need to get a proper look at this before I make a decidsion, but I'm currently more inclined by the semi custom since I can spec the geometry I want (or think I want!)

Will be going cable operated calipers since I use campag. It'll either be TRP Spyres (providing they fit) or Shimano CX77; unless anyone knows of anything better than these two?

[Neil]

I'd go HY/RD.

[vqdriver]

i think we're beyond the one-moving-pad design. spyres or hy/rd
either way, have fun. it's fun building these things out in your head before pulling the trigger.

[vqdriver]

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10606214_383670651799832_4625163767135231370_n.jpg ?oh=3a2165ca24ba7be2e19d294160df3b3e&oe=555ACE71


that thing is hawt

[GRAVELBIKE]

Currently running SRAM Force CX1 HydroR brakes on conventional q/r hubs (11-speed/135mm rear). Frame is a steel Salsa Vaya. Very happy with the performance.

[NHAero]

Are there hydraulic brake-only levers for hydraulic calipers, or only integrated brake/shifter levers? I want to retain my bar end shifters but am interested in upgrading the BB7 calipers on my Anderson.

[bcgav]

Are there hydraulic brake-only levers for hydraulic calipers, or only integrated brake/shifter levers? I want to retain my bar end shifters but am interested in upgrading the BB7 calipers on my Anderson.

These fit the bill.

http://www.trpbrakes.com/category.php?productid=1207&catid=206

[NHAero]

Thanks!

[macaroon]

i think we're beyond the one-moving-pad design. spyres or hy/rd
either way, have fun. it's fun building these things out in your head before pulling the trigger.

Hydro is definitely out; I'd need to buy a whole new groupset.

I just want brakes that stop me as well (or better) as my current Campag Skeleton brakes. I assume a cable disc brake would be upto the job?

Main reason for the change to discs is to get more life outta my wheels, and avoid having to swap wheels when the winter comes. Also, it'd be nice to have a bike not covered in that black rim brake pad sludge.

The only thing putting me off the Spyres is I've heard of issues with them catching on spokes, due to the width of the caliper?

[vqdriver]

Hy/Rd is cable actuated So no need for new group

Your framebuilder can help you with clearance issues re the spyres. iirc those were wheels with slightly wider flanges

[dton]

My 2cents. I use BB7 Road's but I'd give a slight edge to the Spyres if I were to start over. Stopping power should be pretty similar, but I like the dual moving pistons. That being said, it's pretty easy to adjust the BB7s and they seem to wear pretty evenly for me.

Looks like both have slight clearance irregularities. With the BB7s (depending on chainstay length and if you're installing it on the chainstay), are quite wide but to the outside, so you could have heel strike issues. The TRP's may have issues with spokes IF you're going for the 140mm rotor in the rear. Step it up to 160 and I'm sure you'd be fine. I have 160/140 F/R and have no issues with stopping power, but I'm pretty light at 63kg.

[bcgav]

Hy/Rd is cable actuated So no need for new group

Your framebuilder can help you with clearance issues re the spyres. iirc those were wheels with slightly wider flanges

+1 on the HY/RDs.

[11.4]

I moved from Spyres to Hy/Rds to R785s. I'd never go back. Sell a bike or a kidney and get it. I'd also think very seriously about Ultegra 6870 with Di2. It does make shifting that much better, and even more, it has fewer problems than the mechanical stuff.

That being said, other people's observations are entirely correct: the world is changing rapidly, and whatever you get isn't going to be defunct in a couple years but may not be the standard that evolves. Issues include

1. rear hub spacing -- 135 isn't by any means final, with a number of forces pushing 142 mm.

2. brake mounting -- it isn't just whether you are on posts or not, because flush studs on the stay seem to be getting very popular and calipers are being designed in multiple formats to accommodate different mounts.

3. aerodynamics -- everything is going to evolve as calipers become more aerodynamic. And of course everything is going to change to save weight.

4. hydraulics -- the new Shimano hydraulics are so simple to service that you shouldn't be scared of them at all. It's easier than cables and you no longer have the accumulated friction of cables in their housing either. It's not just about braking strength. R785's give amazing modulation, better than what you can get with cantis, and that's worth a lot.

5. controls -- patents are getting issued on electronic braking so you end up back with a caliper without a hydraulic hose and just a wire.

6. through axles -- this is just a mess, whatever anyone says. Different bike and equipment manufacturers are supporting different standards -- 12 mm, 15 mm, traditional quick releases, and every oddball dimension in between. You can get Chris King hubs in one through axle configuration but your frame may need another and your equipment group may demand a third. It's nuts. People say that they will be interconvertible so nobody is left out in the cold, but I don't quite see how that's going to happen.

And it goes on. I had a bike stolen and insurance replaced it with a fully maxed out Psycho-X RSL with hydraulics and Di2, but if I were spending my own dollars right now I'd seriously think about going with a factory disc bike and waiting for some of the confusion to settle down. That's likely to be 3+ years because standards will have to be set in racing and it's already taken ages just to get discs into cross, and another couple years or longer before they'll be in UCI road events. If a bike has a useful lifetime to you of less than 3-4 years, go with the newest technology and have fun. If you want it to last longer, I'd hedge for a year or so just to see where the technology is headed. I just finished selling all my 10-speed wheels and am still digesting that lesson.

[bingomck]

Was going to post a new thread, but searched and found this. Thanks guys, very informative all around.

Anyone know any factory frames that fit this bill that are less than $4,000:
Generally standard-ish road geo
Di2
Thru axle F/R
Shimano hydro?

Thanks!

[ergott]

I can't say enough praise for the Endpoint Coffee Grinder I got. It's quick release, but I never find it lacking and when they change the standard (again), you can be sure QR isn't going anywhere anytime soon. The bike had met all my winter, crummy weather needs and is ready for action on fire roads or even D2R2 if I can make it this summer.

Price is well under your mark and all the choices in the design make sense. I can easily access the brake hose, and actual standard for bottom bracket (68mm Eng.), tapered fork, etc.

http://ergottwheels.smugmug.com/Cycling/The-bikes/i-BSJ5nqd/0/X2/CoffeegrinderUpdate-4-X2.jpg

[bingomck]

Your bike is so sweet. I've lusted over it for a while.

Re: QRs, I get what you are saying in terms of them being around for a while. I've been riding my buddy's S-Works Tarmac Di2 disc the past week while he's out of town--by far the nicest bike I've ever ridden--and while it's awesome, I get rubbing on the front fork when I'm out of the saddle. I'm about 175-180 and often am commuting with another 20lbs in a backpack. I do think TAs would get rid of that issue. Given the way QRs have gone on MTBs, I just don't see a different evolution with road bikes.

I do get that there are different standards. The Paragon suggestion for rear above was a good idea. But after seeing pictures of the NAHBS DeSalvo road disc with a 12mm front TA (instead of "standard" 15mm), I do get a little worried and consider your reasoning again in just avoiding it all and going F/R QRs.
http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/03/17/nahbs-2015-desalvo-builds-12x142-ti-gravel-bike-with-new-paragon-machine-works-x-12-dropouts/

Decisions!

[JeffS]

Your bike is so sweet. I've lusted over it for a while.

Re: QRs, I get what you are saying in terms of them being around for a while. I've been riding my buddy's S-Works Tarmac Di2 disc the past week while he's out of town--by far the nicest bike I've ever ridden--and while it's awesome, I get rubbing on the front fork when I'm out of the saddle. I'm about 175-180 and often am commuting with another 20lbs in a backpack. I do think TAs would get rid of that issue. Given the way QRs have gone on MTBs, I just don't see a different evolution with road bikes.

I do get that there are different standards. The Paragon suggestion for rear above was a good idea. But after seeing pictures of the NAHBS DeSalvo road disc with a 12mm front TA (instead of "standard" 15mm), I do get a little worried and consider your reasoning again in just avoiding it all and going F/R QRs.
http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/03/17/nahbs-2015-desalvo-builds-12x142-ti-gravel-bike-with-new-paragon-machine-works-x-12-dropouts/

Decisions!

What's rubbing? Where?

At 200+lbs I've never seen this. I've had disc CX/commuter bikes for about a decade now.

[bingomck]

Front disc in the rotor. Stays that way until I tap brakes, which seems to put it back in line/re-center the rotor.

Good to hear it doesn't happen to you with QRs; another vote for them.

[Hermes_Alex]

I think that it's probably a prudent idea at this point to start looking out for 12MM front through-axle stuff moving forward. Some of the really big fish are jumping on board with it, to the point where it's probably going to be really blowing up in the coming model year. I've actually ditched 15mm TA compatibility in favor of it for my own disc stuff.

[oldpotatoe]

I think that it's probably a prudent idea at this point to start looking out for 12MM front through-axle stuff moving forward. Some of the really big fish are jumping on board with it, to the point where it's probably going to be really blowing up in the coming model year. I've actually ditched 15mm TA compatibility in favor of it for my own disc stuff.

Thank goodness......sarcasm intended.