Dura Ace C24 vs. HED Ardennes LT+

[theprep]

Can anyone shed some light on how these 2 wheelsets compare?

I have a set of 7850 C24's that are 10 speed compatible. I love this wheelset but my new bike will be 11 speed and not compatible. They are laterally stiff, accelerate fast and seem to hold speed better than a low profile wheel should.

My new bike is coming with the HED and I am wondering if I should try to change the spec (add $) to the C24's.

I have never tried one of the new wide rims that seem to be popular now.

Joe

[tv_vt]

Have a pair of 7850 scandium wheels and HED Belgium rimmed handbuilts. If you can spring for it, go for the c24s. Not much to really say about the HEDs. They're OK, but I don't get what all the fuss is about.

[professerr]

I have the 7900 c24s and the Ardennes FR (the narrower, non "plus") version. Even though c24s are slightly wider than a normal rim, the Ardennes are, of course, wider. I prefer the Ardennes. They ride better and descend better, even when using with a slightly narrower tire (23mm Vittoria Open Corsa a 25 mm version of the same tire).

When I upgraded to 11 speed, the price of c24s was the same as Ardennes FR on sale. I picked the Ardennes, even though the c24s have superior hubs, cool carbon/alum tech rims, and are probably lighter. The Ardennes just rode much better. I imagine the "plus" version, even more so. Somewhere here I posted about this in greater detail.

[Bruce K]

I have HEDs on everything I ride.

They are durable, fast, and not so stiff that they rattle your fillings out.

In the + versions they have given me longer tire life and better ride comfort from the lower pressures.

I don't plan to ride anything else....

BK

[Black Dog]

It is all about ride quality and the HED's wider rims makes all the difference. Better grip and low rolling resistance at lower pressures for a nice smooth ride.

[mike p]

If I could ride nothing but shimano C wheels, 24's 35's and 50's I could die a happy man. To me they're the best line of wheels ever.

Mike

[theprep]

It is all about ride quality and the HED's wider rims makes all the difference. Better grip and low rolling resistance at lower pressures for a nice smooth ride.

I'm 185 lbs.. With 25 mm pro 4's, what pressure would you recommend with the + version of the HED's?

I am glad to hear positive reports on the HED.

[Black Dog]

I run the same tires of the same size on one of my bikes. Perhaps start at 90psi rear and 85 psi front and try going down from there. Remember, that lower pressure is not slower, you may feel that it is because of the smooth ride but all the data shows that wider tires at lower pressure roll faster that skinny high pressure on irregular surfaces (like everything but a brand new road or track). I run mine at about 80 rear and 75 front and weigh 155.

[Seramount]

never ridden HEDs, but my C24s are stellar wheels.

they make me glad I bought them every time I ride.

[kgreene10]

I run the same tires of the same size on one of my bikes. Perhaps start at 90psi rear and 85 psi front and try going down from there. Remember, that lower pressure is not slower, you may feel that it is because of the smooth ride but all the data shows that wider tires at lower pressure roll faster that skinny high pressure on irregular surfaces (like everything but a brand new road or track). I run mine at about 80 rear and 75 front and weigh 155.

I thought the data shows that wider tires roll faster than skinnier ones at the same pressure.

[chiasticon]

i say just give it a shot. you won't dislike the hed wheels. all my wheels are 23mm wide or more (hed, pacenti, velocity, november, boyd, others...). not going back to thinner rims. i can run lower pressure with a wider tire footprint and more comfort. love it.

and on the off chance that you don't, just sell 'em. you won't take much of a loss - if any - and you can get the c24's for about $750 over at wiggle.

[bcroslin]

I've owned and ridden both and I don't see a huge difference between the two. The Ardennes I owned were 32 spoke so they were stiffer than my C-24's but other than that they did the same thing. IMO I'd rather have the C-24's so as to not have to deal with HED.

[John H.]

I love the Shimano wheels but my nitpicks are:
1.) They need wider rims (in this day and age).
2.) Repair sucks. Rims and spokes are scarce and expensive. Shimano will not do rebuild.
I would get Hed Ardennes or Ardennes +.
Choice of rime width should be based on tire size and brake that you are using.
I have heard that some cantis and v-brakes do not play well with the super wide + model.
I have Ardennes on most of my bikes- Pacenti SL23 on the ones that I have set up for tubeless.

[donevwil]

Since you mention "laterally stiff" in your OP, you should know that HED Ardennes are notoriously whippy laterally, primarily in the rear. They are incredibly durable and generally very good wheels, but are whippy. Unless you're a lightweight that might be an issue. I have no experience with C24s.

[Bruce K]

New lacing pattern stiffened the HEDs up a bit

I would start at 90# and play with it a bit

I am 205 and ride 95 front and 100 rear

BK

[Black Dog]

Since you mention "laterally stiff" in your OP, you should know that HED Ardennes are notoriously whippy laterally, primarily in the rear. They are incredibly durable and generally very good wheels, but are whippy. Unless you're a lightweight that might be an issue. I have no experience with C24s.

Not so if you get them with 28 spokes.

[theprep]

I will see if I can up the spoke count.

I had a 46mm carbon Reynolds rim laced to a power tap hub by a respected builder. The rim was constantly hitting the brake pads under power. We tried heavier spokes, more tension, nothing worked.

[donevwil]

Not so if you get them with 28 spokes.

I have a set of CLs, 24 front and 28 rear, whippy as hell. It's not only the spoke count, but the build tension and hubs as well I'm told. Friends on SL Stallion said the same thing, but we are all over 180.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

My friend is 300 lbs., rides HED Belgiums 28 rear/24 front, and can lay down some power. He doesn't notice any flex with these rims. I've never noticed any flex when I had a set, either (28/24).

[donevwil]

My friend is 300 lbs., rides HED Belgiums 28 rear/24 front, and can lay down some power. He doesn't notice any flex with these rims. I've never noticed any flex when I had a set, either (28/24).

They are indeed a strong, durable wheelset. In my experience the whippiness only affects the ride when making quick direction changes at speed like ripping down switchbacks. My issue is flex causing tire rub on the chainstays. Under power the rear moves more that 4mm each way causing the rub. Doesn't make the bike squirrely or scary in any way, but my 32 spoke handbuilts do handle better. Maybe it's just my CL wheelset, who knows, but I've heard the same feedback from others. Likely more an issue of how they are used.

[LegendRider]

I got the best of both worlds - handbuilts with Hed Belgium rims and Dura Ace 7900 hubs.

[PaMtbRider]

I got the best of both worlds - handbuilts with Hed Belgium rims and Dura Ace 7900 hubs.

This. I've built 2 sets of wheels using HED C2 rims. One set with White Industry T-11 hubs, the other with DT Swiss 240s. Definitely not going back to a narrower rim.

[thwart]

This. I've built 2 sets of wheels using HED C2 rims. One set with White Industry T-11 hubs, the other with DT Swiss 240s. Definitely not going back to a narrower rim.

Yep. Great combo… state of the art hubs and arguably the best 23 mm rim available. Durable, easily repaired, and they look good.

I have two sets as well. The first was built by Ergott 28/28 to a combo of silver Record/White Industry hubs (1550 gms), and one I built, 32/32 to black Record hubs (1610 gms). The second is my beater set… ;)

The ride and cornering of wider rims and good 25 mm tires is addictive, IMO.

[Tony]

My friend is 300 lbs., rides HED Belgiums 28 rear/24 front, and can lay down some power. He doesn't notice any flex with these rims. I've never noticed any flex when I had a set, either (28/24).

Same here, friend over 200 lbs rides HED Belgiums 28 rear/24 front, strong rider, likes the wheels a lot, never heard him complain about flex.

[Rebel_Biker]

The Chris King Alloy ride use HED C2 or C2 + with R45 hubs
You can usually get them for $1k

[jimoots]

If I could ride nothing but shimano C wheels, 24's 35's and 50's I could die a happy man. To me they're the best line of wheels ever.

Mike

This.


2.) Repair sucks. Rims and spokes are scarce and expensive. Shimano will not do rebuild.

But this is the catch.

I'll also add that in the event of a collision, they tend to fail pretty easily. I've ruined a couple of c24 fronts. With that said, I'm at peace with losing a wheel if the rest of the bike stays in one piece.

[soulspinner]

My friend is 300 lbs., rides HED Belgiums 28 rear/24 front, and can lay down some power. He doesn't notice any flex with these rims. I've never noticed any flex when I had a set, either (28/24).

300? Sheesh he could break a lot of bike parts!