How do you choose between?

[Brainbike]

i know. It's a tough life, and not that I am about to pull the trigger, but would love thoughts, experience and feedback.
Firefly
Strong
Moots
Ericksen
Seven

All build incredible bikes, my heart loves the attention to detail and the ornate facets of Firefly. But these bikes are never around to test....

[sjbraun]

Add Hampsten to your itch list

[gregblow]

had a Moots and a Seven. Love the seven!!

[rnhood]

I also like riding something before I buy it. That way I don't have to list bikes or frames for sale.

You should be able to test ride Moots fairly easily. They tend to be the benchmark for Ti bikes imho. And you don't have to wait months on one to buy. If I was buying a Ti bike for the first time, it would very likely be the Moots.

But I agree, the few Fireflys that I have seen look impressively good.

I would get one of those two. Too many choices will just make things confusing and you're not going to get a better bike than one of these two.

[tumbler]

When you're shopping in that league, it's difficult to choose one over another analytically. If you can test ride... test ride. If you're going custom, a test ride won't matter as much, so talk to the builders and go with the one that makes you most comfortable.

I've found that even with top notch companies, experiences can vary. I may have the best experience with someone and you may feel like they were on a different page from you. Talking to each about what you're looking for may help to narrow down your list... or you could be left wanting 5 new bikes!

The good news is, you'll get a ridiculous product from any of those builders.

[tigoat]

It is not possible to decide which one to get from just a test ride, from any of these builders. In fact, test riding is not a good way to evaluate a bike to buy custom or not. To properly evaluate, you will need a frame from each builder built specifically for you and then all of them will have to be configured the same way, as otherwise you will not be comparing apples to apples.

[donevwil]

Speak with the builders and see who makes you feel fuzzy. I always like to meet the builder as well, so look local or semi-local if possible. I've got a Potts and a Hampsten, I highly recommended both as they both Steves are awesome people. Steve Potts is in Petaluma, Steve Hampsten in Seattle and you may even consider DeSalvo in Ashland.

[vav]

Speak with the builders and see who makes you feel fuzzy. I always like to meet the builder as well

^ This.

If I were to pick from that list, I'd go with FF and Seven as they both are less than 50 miles away from me. But again, I'd order a David Kirk without thinking twice and he is 3000 miles away so there goes my rationale :cool:

[texbike]

i know. It's a tough life, and not that I am about to pull the trigger, but would love thoughts, experience and feedback.
Firefly
Strong
Moots
Ericksen
Seven

All build incredible bikes, my heart loves the attention to detail and the ornate facets of Firefly. But these bikes are never around to test....

Spectrum would be another good one to add to your Ti wish list. If I were to purchase a new, custom Ti frame, Tom Kellogg would be the first person that I would call (and this is from a Moots owner that loves his Vamoots!).

Texbike

[c-record]

So many good builders right now we're blessed to have the choices we do. I think a lot of it is going to come down to regional influences. What is out there in your cycling community, what do your friends ride, what does the shop you like have experience with etc.

You can't go wrong. Ride what you can & listen to that little voice that gets excited about one over the other. Buy it and don't look back! Whatever choice you make will be the best one.

[Mister Donut]

I totally concur with tigoat, insomuch that a proper evaluation isn't feasible though it might be worthwhile.

Now I wouldn't go with feeling, but rather history of the builder based on your needs and perhaps riding philosophy. I'm guessing you're leaning toward a titanium frame, because I'd recommend a handful of other "steel specific" builders if that's what you're actually thinking.

None the less, of all the bikes you've listed, I have ridden every one of them. Unfortunately, each was built to a different standard for a specific purpose. So I won't compare the 29er Moots 1x9 to the the CX Seven 2x10, or the Monstercross Firefly 1x11 to the 650b Strong SS. Do you see what I'm getting at?

All of that said, I would choose steel over titanium, titanium over carbon, and carbon over aluminum, but that's just me.

[merlincustom1]

In all seriousness, buy the one that you think looks the best. I venture that if you were to have each one built up for you, identically, you'd notice slight differences, maybe. You wouldn't say one was better than another.

[bicycletricycle]

Firefly, sweet anodized logo and designs push them over the top IMHO

[enr1co]

Stopped in Above Category shop in Sausalito and saw a couple Ti bikes by Mosaic. Chad, the store owner was busy with some other customers so didnt
have time to learn about them there or query the web this week but they looked to of nice quality. They also have some $$$ Baum Ti bikes there if you want to expand your Ti list even more.

[beeatnik]

Brainbike, do you work for Google (Apple, Facebook, Sun, Twitter, Craigslist)?

[jtakeda]

Pick the one you think looks the best.

At that level they're all going to be very very nice.


The more and more I ride the more I realize that pining over what I want doesn't hold a candle to grabbing what I have and riding the snot out of it.


Pick one you think looks good, ride it till it dies.

[oldpotatoe]

i know. It's a tough life, and not that I am about to pull the trigger, but would love thoughts, experience and feedback.
Firefly
Strong
Moots
Ericksen
Seven

All build incredible bikes, my heart loves the attention to detail and the ornate facets of Firefly. But these bikes are never around to test....

Moots but I'd add Mosaic. All except Seven and Moots are direct to the customer. So more time as a bigger, successful biz on one hand(Moots, Seven), more flexibility as to what you may want, on the other.

As for a test ride not answering any questions, I'd disagree with that. I rode bikes I tuned all the time and first impressions on these were pretty easy. BUT the 'test ride' ought to be a long one, 2-3 hours, after the bike is set up as close as possible for you. Maybe not possible for those frames not supported by a dealer network. BUT maybe you could visit the builder, ride a bike...might be expensive tho..to travel there, etc.

[roadie7]

All these shops will give you a great bike. I chose Serotta (10 years ago) because the shop owner was a certified fitter. I thought this would assure me a proper fit.

Good luck.

[soulspinner]

spectrum would be another good one to add to your ti wish list. If i were to purchase a new, custom ti frame, tom kellogg would be the first person that i would call (and this is from a moots owner that loves his vamoots!).

Texbike

+1

[weisan]

many new kids have come on the scene over the last few years and doing some really cool stuff...BUT...Tom Kellogg is still my man no matter what. There's something that cannot be replicated: Experience which translates into fit...and FIT is EVERYTHING. When I say "fit", I am referring to the perfect union of man and his machine in every aspects. I am sure the others mentioned can do just as good a job...but I sticking to Tom. :banana:

[znfdl]

If you are going with a custom fit, interview each of the designers to determine who you would like to build you a bike.

[enr1co]

If you visit the classifieds enough here ;) you may get lucky and find a pre-owned gem on sale at an attractive price point by a top tier builder on your list which meets your fit and riding style requirements of a bike with little or no compromise :)

e.g
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=157143&highlight=firefly
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=157858&highlight=mosaic
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=158198
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=148917
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=139621&highlight=hampsten

[chiasticon]

i'd vote firefly, but that's only because i have a ti indy fab made before firefly left 'em. and because i think they look the most awesome.

as others have said though, any of those are going to be awesome. and likely they'll all fit you very well, especially if custom. so buy the one that looks the best and that you'll always want to jump on, just by looking at it.

[merlinmurph]

Ginger or Maryann?

[alexstar]

Can't go wrong with any of those builders IMHO. If your heart wants the Firefly, get the Firefly. You'll ride your bike more often if you LOVE it.

[krismac23]

Out of that list I'd say Firefly, but IF it was me. I'd get a SV with the custom option.

[malcolm]

If you are adding to the list consider Kish
http://www.kishbike.com/
I love mine. Short wait time and 20 years building Ti.

I've got a TK Ti road bike, it only has peers
I've owned a couple Legends, no longer in the mix unless you go used.
I spent a long time on the phone with a guy from firefly, can't recall his name but I would get one without hesitation, but the wait is long.
Any of those guys will build you a great bike. If you really need to ride it first moots and seven will be your choices and for me I would go with the moots beautiful bike and for what it's worth re-sale is by far better than any other Ti.

I've had a half dozen bikes built for me without testing and all but one was a success and the failure wasn't because of no test ride but trusting a fitter.

[Ti Designs]

You'll ride your bike more often if you LOVE it.

Unless you see it as a work of art, then you never ride it. Cuts both ways...

[chiasticon]

Unless you see it as a work of art, then you never ride it. Cuts both ways...
this is very true. for some reason, i view my carbon bike as being way more precious than my ti bike; probably because of the fancy paint job, matte finish, more fragile material, etc. whereas i view my ti bike as a utilitarian tool. still beautiful in its own right, though.

[eBAUMANN]

how would I choose? probably by proximity, as I am fortunate to not have to look further than a few miles from my house (firefly) ;)

for me, a huge part of buying a custom is the process and the people involved, as those 2 things are really what separates the custom experience from all other bike purchases IMO.

i would also suggest you add mosaic to your list, super nice guys and a great product, I've owned and enjoyed 3 of their bikes, dealing with aaron directly (as they were all his old frames haha).

[alexstar]

Unless you see it as a work of art, then you never ride it. Cuts both ways...

Good point, admittedly that possibility never crossed my mind.

[Jeff N.]

Don't forget this guy...

[classtimesailer]

Local builder would be cool.

[donevwil]

Ginger or Maryann?

Well, this pretty much sums it up doesn't it ? Mary Ann by the way.

[enr1co]

Well, this pretty much sums it up doesn't it ? Mary Ann by the way.

This could likely add another 3 pages- Mary Ann does it for me :banana:

[xeladragon]

Factors I considered when pondering this same decision several months ago (in no particular order):

Local builder? An important plus but not a deal breaker.
Builder reputation.
Cost.
Builder communication (responsiveness/helpfulness)
Lead time.
Future resale value (you never know...)

I might be missing a few things, but that's the bulk of it, I think.

Depending on when you decide to pull the trigger, Mike Zanconato might be an option as well.

[d_douglas]

Can't go wrong with any of those builders IMHO. If your heart wants the Firefly, get the Firefly. You'll ride your bike more often if you LOVE it.

This is true. I bought a ti CX bike and it came down to Potts and Desalvo. I chose Desalvo due to good reputation and cost. Potts was a very close second and still makes my heart beat fast. Donevwil's fat tire road bike is a beautiful example.




I thought of Firefly, but just didn't have the guts to pay that kind of cash. They are amazing machines no doubt, but I got 95% the bike for 75% the cost, in my opinion.

All options that you have chosen are great. In terms of trying them out, that is a problem. All you can do is trust the builder to build a perfect fitting machine and the rest will fall into place. They are all great companies.

[donevwil]

This is true. I bought a ti CX bike and it came down to Potts and Desalvo. I chose Desalvo due to good reputation and cost. Potts was a very close second and still makes my heart beat fast. Donevwil's fat tire road bike is a beautiful example.

I was actually going to go wish Kish initially (originally in SLO) before he made me aware of his impending move, that was a bit of a deal breaker for me. Didn't even know about Steve Potts at the time even though he was only 15 miles (now 4 miles) away. Met him at NAHBS in Sacramento and new I'd found the builder for me.

[CunegoFan]

Which of those offer a threaded BB?

[sandyrs]

Which of those offer a threaded BB?

I would imagine all of them if one is going full custom. The only exception might be the Moots RSL.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

I would imagine all of them if one is going full custom. The only exception might be the Moots RSL.

Even that one is offered as a threaded BB as an option.

[Brainbike]

No, I don't work for Google, Facebook, etc... I've become a CL & now PL junkie! I have never bought new, and have had decent luck selling "previously enjoyed" to fund other builds. I bought a used Ottrott and love it, but the fit is not quite perfect for me, a touch big. I thought next year, treat myself to a new "custom for me" build...in Ti. Love the feedback all, and yes Hampsten, De Salvo, Kirk, Spectrum, and Holland Exogrid are all sweet. The only truly local I know semi close here is Caletti. I met him once, but don't know his work.

[donevwil]

The only truly local I know semi close here is Caletti.

Potts is in the North Bay, Petaluma.

[buddybikes]

Being a FF owner (FF257) I am a bit biased, but had the opportunity to meet them in person. However, before you get heart set on that direction (or any direction) do you need quick gradification? If so FF wait list is probably way out there. Give them a jingle to find out. Others like Ind Fab you could get first of the year probably.

[velomonkey]

So this is coming from a firefly owner and my best buddy has a moots.

Let me be upfront: if you wait you can find one that fits you in 4 or 5 months. Trust me, you can. I'm not totally sold on custom fit - I'm not opposed, but unless you have a totally odd body you can get away with standard. I did custom and guess what my firefly is built up just like C-59 - same geometry.

Here is the deal, if you don't go to see firefly, you are leaving part of the whole experience on the table. You will want to give those guys your money. Jamie and Tyler weld the bike and Kevin does the fit - once I met them I was sold.

My buddy who has a moots - and a wicked eye for detail - wishes he got a firefly. Only cause he paid about the same as me, not sure of your case, though. My firefly is totally me: I will never sell it and since it's so 'just for me' I keep it around and will do so for a long, long time.

So again, not anti-custom just not pro custom either. If you go firefly get to Boston - they are very close to the airport and train station and I am sure Kevin or someone will pick you up.

Only thing is I would add a used IF to that list - and if you get a firefly, go nuts on the anodization - make it your own.

[jerrym]

You can put me down to "buy from who you think you will like working with best". They are all great bikes. I have personally worked with Bill Holland, and would recommend him. I have also purchased from David Kirk and would recommend him as well, but he only does steel.

[d_douglas]

The only truly local I know semi close here is Caletti. I met him once, but don't know his work.

I met Caletti at NAHBS and he was very nice. He builds gorgeous bikes as well and yes, he was in the running for a while for me. In the end, experience won out and I went with Desalvo mostly because of his reputation as a 'builder's builder'. He doesn't do much in terms of self promotion and prefers to bang out plenty of frames, which I kind of like. Every once in a while, he seems to take a project on and make it a work of art, at his own admission.

Mine was not one of these bikes, but I am very pleased nevertheless.

It seems like Firefly fetishes the details (which I love) but you obviously need to pay for that level of detail and it is often unnecessary or decorative (anodizing-wise). Stunning though - I would welcome one into my house if it showed up at my door :)

[Waldo]

Spectrum.

[Waldo]

Ginger or Maryann?

Both...

[buddybikes]

If you choose Firefly - and go for anodizing - I did the TOP of the stem, the one piece of a bike you look at while riding - and it is so awesome. They did detailed deco roses in memory of my parents. think of them every time I ride it.

[rw229]

Sun?! Long gone.

To the OP, I don't think you could go wrong with any of the builders you've listed. Are you good with stock geo or do you need custom? Take your time an work with each to determine who will earn your business.



Brainbike, do you work for Google (Apple, Facebook, Sun, Twitter, Craigslist)?

[sparky33]

^ This.



If I were to pick from that list, I'd go with FF and Seven as they both are less than 50 miles away from me. But again, I'd order a David Kirk without thinking twice and he is 3000 miles away so there goes my rationale :cool:



This again.
Seven and Firefly strike me as infinitely skilled and great at making clients happy. Had some nice talks with both, particularly FF on how they fit clients. Fit is key.

Hard to choose....
The nice thing about Seven is that they sell through dealers/shop who can do the fitting if you aren't local to Boston.

Being local, FF gives me the good fuzzy feeling lately....

outside of ti, Kirk is hard to top.

[Dave Ferris]

If I were in the market for a new custom road bike, Holland would probably be my first choice because of the close proximity to Glendale/Los Angeles. Also because of the short lead time.

I highly considered going with Bill before I decided my fear and hate for riding on the streets of Los Angeles, with all the maniacs, far outweighed any fulfillment, or buzz, that even the most high end road bike, like a Holland, would give me. But that's personal of course and subject matter for an entirely different thread.;)

If I lived in the SF Bay area , I'd probably give Steve Potts another call.

I just received my 29er from him the first week of Sept. and already it has just under 400 miles on it. I think there has maybe been 3 or 4 days that I haven't been on it since I did my maiden voyage ride on Sunday 9/7.

I know it's a different animal then a road bike but, on these dry, super rutted (from the drought), dusty and rocky fireroads I ride in the Verdugos and Santa Monicas-- the Potts feels like a Lexus. Very plush for a hardtail mtn. bike. (I went with the 100mm sus.)

My only gripe was the longer then expected wait time of 11 months. But like I've posted before, to be fair, Steve was going through a difficult transition time with his house and workspace in Inverness. He has a much larger space now in Petuluma, and I would assume his turn around time would probably be much quicker now.

You won't find a nicer, more down to earth guy to deal with then Steve.