Budget Steel Options

[kurto]

My wife has approved me to spend some $$ for a new bike, though I still have budgetary restrictions. I'd really like to get a steel racer, but I can probably only spend like $1500 for the frameset. I'm seriously considering a Wraith Hustle, and I could possibly swing the extra jack for a Lemond Washoe, which looks really nice. I currently ride a CAAD10 (54 fits perfectly), so I don't need weird geo. I just kind of want something new and have always wanted a steel race(ish) bike. What/who should I consider?

[eBAUMANN]

hard to beat a wraith for the money...

[jmoore]

Something lightly used from one of the guys you can't afford new? Plenty of stuff in 54 in the Classifieds if you are patient.

[RedRider]

Gunnar makes a good quality frame at that price point.

[sevencyclist]

Co-Motion might be close to that range in price.

[oldpotatoe]

My wife has approved me to spend some $$ for a new bike, though I still have budgetary restrictions. I'd really like to get a steel racer, but I can probably only spend like $1500 for the frameset. I'm seriously considering a Wraith Hustle, and I could possibly swing the extra jack for a Lemond Washoe, which looks really nice. I currently ride a CAAD10 (54 fits perfectly), so I don't need weird geo. I just kind of want something new and have always wanted a steel race(ish) bike. What/who should I consider?

Gunnar Roadie.

Http//www.gunnarbike.com

[MattTuck]

The winter is upon us, so I'd suggest taking that money, and adding to it over the next few months. If you could get another $500-1000 into the budget, your options would expand significantly if you're talking a new custom frame.

[sevencyclist]

Oh, and if you want to spend only a $1000 for custom frame and save the $500 for a nicer set of wheels, can think about Curtlo.

Desalvo is able to deliver excellent standard geometry frame at your price point of $1500 as well.

[buck-50]

My wife has approved me to spend some $$ for a new bike, though I still have budgetary restrictions. I'd really like to get a steel racer, but I can probably only spend like $1500 for the frameset. I'm seriously considering a Wraith Hustle, and I could possibly swing the extra jack for a Lemond Washoe, which looks really nice. I currently ride a CAAD10 (54 fits perfectly), so I don't need weird geo. I just kind of want something new and have always wanted a steel race(ish) bike. What/who should I consider?

I was in the same place earlier this year- wanted to get a new steel frame, didn't want to spend a ton of money, was looking at a wraith or a washoe when I realized that I had an older frame that I used to love...

this was the result:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=157481&highlight=nhx

Cant go wrong with an older Serotta thats in good shape. You might not get a carbon fork but then you can run 28s so no need...

[kurto]

Gunnar makes a good quality frame at that price point.

Duh. I forgot to include Gunnar, and I live in Wisconsin. With fork, a Gunnar Roadie is basically the same price as a Wraith Hustle. Any ideas how Gunnar's OS2 steel compares to the Columbus Life that Wraith uses?

[oldpotatoe]

Duh. I forgot to include Gunnar, and I live in Wisconsin. With fork, a Gunnar Roadie is basically the same price as a Wraith Hustle. Any ideas how Gunnar's OS2 steel compares to the Columbus Life that Wraith uses?

Yes.....

[keevon]

Lots of good options for a $1500 custom frameset, including but not limited to:

Elephant: http://www.elephantbikes.com/custom/
Curtlo: http://www.curtlo.com/frame_pages/custom_road.html
Rock Lobster: http://www.rocklobstercycles.com/frames/road/
L'Avecaise / Jeff Lyon: http://www.lyonsport.com/frames-0
Gunnar: http://gunnarbikes.com/site/bikes/roadie/
Maestro: http://maestroframeworks.com/pricing/
Boulder: http://boulderbicycle.bike/Boulder-Bicycle-Road-Sport-Overview-and-Pricing.html

...and so on. Why buy stock when you can get custom?

[kurto]

The winter is upon us, so I'd suggest taking that money, and adding to it over the next few months. If you could get another $500-1000 into the budget, your options would expand significantly if you're talking a new custom frame.

Matt, I'm already factoring in building a chest over the winter, so I don't think I'll realistically be able to go any higher than a Lemond. Also, I've always fit really well on stock sizes, so I'm not sure I need custom (though there are some highly lustworthy custom bikes out there).

[mhespenheide]

New? Curtlo for steel, if you don't mind fillet brazing.

Used is always going to be cheaper, though, so if you're willing to consider it, post a WTB in the classifieds or keep your eyes peeled over the next couple of months. Guaranteed something will turn up.

[buck-50]

Get a Gunnar and you might get to talk to Richard Schwinn...

[eBAUMANN]

Duh. I forgot to include Gunnar, and I live in Wisconsin. With fork, a Gunnar Roadie is basically the same price as a Wraith Hustle. Any ideas how Gunnar's OS2 steel compares to the Columbus Life that Wraith uses?

Life is really hard to beat. Easily some of the best steel on the market these days.

IMO, Gunnar's are pretty bland...Wraith on the other hand: new brand from a respected and super nice builder, I would buy one just because Adam is on the other end of the line. You won't find a guy more committed to the satisfaction/enjoyment of his customers.

[robin3mj]

An Indy Fab Crown Jewel in your size and below your budget is bound to come up within the near future.

Grab one of those and save the extra cash for a repaint in a year or two to really make it 'yours'.

[FlashUNC]

I'll just continue my Della Santa shilling.

He's in your price range for full custom. The world championship stripes on his bike are legit, and he's a hoot to talk to.

Worked for this kid from Reno back in the day...

http://stwww.bikemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/LeMond_DellaSanta_PAVED.jpg

[ceolwulf]

Steel racer, $1500 budget, that's a Marinoni Piuma. You could even get it with custom geometry for that price.

[velomonkey]

You know - I think, on paper, the LeMond Washoe is a great deal. Built by Zinn, good paint, you get an ENVe fork and a King inset - $1799. I dunno, I think it looks good to me.

https://greglemond.com/#!/washoe

[Admiral Ackbar]

it kind of blows my mind the you consider a $1500 frame "budget"

but id probably get a marinoni for that kind of money. you might even be able to fully custom ...geo, paint, tubing spec + brazeons... depending on the frame

[StanleySteamer]

Another vote for a Marinoni Piuma, a fantastic value for the money. It's made out of Columbus Spirit tubing and offers custom sizing at a small up charge in price.

[rphetteplace]

Kurto my fellow Wisconsinite

Really consider DeSalvo for a great deal on steel.

I've got a house full of them down in Southern Wisconsin if you're interested in seeing one in the flesh.

Ryan

[eddief]

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=105778&highlight=curtlo

[kurto]

it kind of blows my mind the you consider a $1500 frame "budget"

Ha. I know. That's really a ton of dough to me, and it'll be the most I've ever spent on a frame, but given the options available (and the kinds of bikes some paceliners ride), I think that's the budget end of "nice" steel.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far. It looks like there are a bunch of options I'd not thought of.

[scho74]

+1 for Wraith. Perfect frame/fork for 1500. I had a Gunnar Roadie, fine bike but always left me wanting more. So I got a Stoemper. Love it. I think my next frame will be a Wraith. Sweet bikes

[carlineng]

New Gunnar, or used Rock Lobster/IF Crown Jewel/Della Santa. Solid, proven brands without all the hype.

[beeatnik]

If you dig your CAAD10, get the Wraith.

[DarkStar]

Steel racer, $1500 budget, that's a Marinoni Piuma. You could even get it with custom geometry for that price.

I'll be at Marinoni's tomorrow, bringing in my old frame to be repainted, also respacing the rear triangle to 130mm. I'll take a few pics.

[DarkStar]

it kind of blows my mind the you consider a $1500 frame "budget"

but id probably get a marinoni for that kind of money. you might even be able to fully custom ...geo, paint, tubing spec + brazeons... depending on the frame
Yes! And the American dollar is very strong right now.

[smead]

Soma smoothie! Race it this w/e, tour on the next! $300-$500! Spend the saved dosh on a wheelset.

[John H.]

I would go used for sure.
You can get a top end used frame for that neighborhood. Why get a budget ride?
Just keep your eyes peeled in all the usual spots.

[Ken C]

I haven't heard of Wraith, what does it offer that would be superior to a Gunnar Roadie? They do look nice, but I am not sure what the improvement over a Gunnar would be.

Gunnar offers more sizing and you could get an Enve fork and I am not sure I would need the 44mm HT.

Great to see more options in this category though.

[Idris Icabod]

I got my custom Mercian for that with Reynolds 853.

[tumbler]

You know - I think, on paper, the LeMond Washoe is a great deal. Built by Zinn, good paint, you get an ENVe fork and a King inset - $1799. I dunno, I think it looks good to me.

https://greglemond.com/#!/washoe

+1. If I could get spousal approval for one more, this would probably be it.

[Buzz Killington]

If you don't need custom, I'd recommend a Ritchey Road Logic. I recall frame/fork about 1,000. Spend the difference on something for the wife. 2 home runs there.

[mistermo]

My wife has approved me...

If I could get spousal approval...

Seriously, this is one of my biggest pet peeves. I understand it was likely a joint decision/compromise, but grown men need to stop presenting it on here as if their wives make decisions for them.

[charliedid]

LeMonde Washoe made by Zen Bicycle Fabrication not Zinn...

Looks like a super nice bike BTW

[charliedid]

If you don't need custom, I'd recommend a Ritchey Road Logic. I recall frame/fork about 1,000. Spend the difference on something for the wife. 2 home runs there.

Could do much worse...

[tumbler]

I understand it was likely a joint decision/compromise, but grown men need to stop presenting it on here as if their wives make decisions for them.

Joint decisions generally involve approval by both parties, no? I don't consult Lady Tumbler on which seatpost or bar tape I should buy, but when it comes to a $1-2k frameset, I think a discussion is a good idea. The biggest concern in my situation isn't the cost, but the space each bike takes up in our apartment. I'm fine having redundant bikes and bikes next to the dinner table, but she (weirdly) isn't as cool with that.

I've found the rule "happy wife = happy life" to be very useful. What fun is a new bike if you're getting the stink eye every time you return from a ride?

[stephenmarklay]

Joint decisions generally involve approval by both parties, no? I don't consult Lady Tumbler on which seatpost or bar tape I should buy, but when it comes to a $1-2k frameset, I think a discussion is a good idea. The biggest concern in my situation isn't the cost, but the space each bike takes up in our apartment. I'm fine having redundant bikes and bikes next to the dinner table, but she (weirdly) isn't as cool with that.

I've found the rule "happy wife = happy life" to be very useful. What fun is a new bike if you're getting the stink eye every time you return from a ride?

He is just sour over the last one that got shot down :) I also fancy the Lemond. It is the fit I need and I like it over all.

Although its not really budget or even a great deal.

[cmg]

Wraith cycles, http://wraithfabrication.com/collections/bicycles/Road How can they build with Columbus life tubing and sell for under $1350 and stay in bussiness? as long as you like grey your good but at that price you can repaint after you get it. what a deal.

[oldpotatoe]

Wraith cycles, http://wraithfabrication.com/collections/bicycles/Road How can they build with Columbus life tubing and sell for under $1350 and stay in business? as long as you like grey your good but at that price you can repaint after you get it. what a deal.

Because they are a direct to the rider, model. AS they mentioned, agreements with suppliers, economy of scale. How most small builders do it. When and if they get larger, and perhaps decide to have a dealer network, they have to decide if the smaller margin/higher number of sales is 'worth it'. I'm sure it could be modeled somehow.

[holliscx]

If you happen to ride a 60cm square frame send me a PM because I may be selling my 853 IF Crown Jewel which is a sweet frame. I had it resprayed a year ago and they told me the condition was an 11 out of 10 saying they see the worst of the worst but that I took care of my steel.

[stephenmarklay]

I guess with this discussion a review of the newest steels is in order. I have no clue what Columbus Life is and how it compares to say Reynolds 853.

[holliscx]

I guess with this discussion a review of the newest steels is in order. I have no clue what Columbus Life is and how it compares to say Reynolds 853.

Columbus Life is modern steel which is faster

[kurto]

I guess with this discussion a review of the newest steels is in order. I have no clue what Columbus Life is and how it compares to say Reynolds 853.

I don't really know how any of these different steels compares, and I don't think I'll be able to test ride many of them before buying, so I'm hoping that somebody here can chime in with experience. Again, thanks for the info so far. There are some really great options available.

[FlashUNC]

I don't really know how any of these different steels compares, and I don't think I'll be able to test ride many of them before buying, so I'm hoping that somebody here can chime in with experience. Again, thanks for the info so far. There are some really great options available.

I'd strongly recommend not getting wrapped up in tubing. Talk to whoever you pick as a builder about what you want to do with the bike, your own body and fit issues, and let the builder worry about the tubes. Its all going to play together anyways -- the geometry, the fit to you the rider and how the tubes work in a frame as a whole -- and that's the more important bit to get right. That's why I tend to think talking to the builder and finding someone who builds the kind of bike you want and feel understands your needs is better than someone who can just weld the latest whiz-bang tubes together.

[bluesea]

The Washoe ovalized TT looks pretty cool. Nice colors, and a real ENVE fork.


http://i.imgur.com/cExxauxl.jpg (http://imgur.com/cExxaux)

[sandyrs]

I'd strongly recommend not getting wrapped up in tubing. Talk to whoever you pick as a builder about what you want to do with the bike, your own body and fit issues, and let the builder worry about the tubes. Its all going to play together anyways -- the geometry, the fit to you the rider and how the tubes work in a frame as a whole -- and that's the more important bit to get right. That's why I tend to think talking to the builder and finding someone who builds the kind of bike you want and feel understands your needs is better than someone who can just weld the latest whiz-bang tubes together.

This.

[oldpotatoe]

I don't really know how any of these different steels compares, and I don't think I'll be able to test ride many of them before buying, so I'm hoping that somebody here can chime in with experience. Again, thanks for the info so far. There are some really great options available.

Blind test by the guy that used to own Torelli, 8 identical steel frames, different tube sets. Result was that tubes really don't make that much difference, mid to high end steel tubesets so....Columbus, TT, Deda, Reynolds... Modern steel bicycle tubing all nice.

[stephenmarklay]

The Washoe ovalized TT looks pretty cool. Nice colors, and a real ENVE fork.


http://i.imgur.com/cExxauxl.jpg (http://imgur.com/cExxaux)


Pretty much want.

[Lionel]

Rock Lobster

[axel23]

Just want to echo the earlier remark about great deals on used frames (and bikes). I get the Wisconsin connection, but take a look at this (no relation to seller, etc.):
http://austin.craigslist.org/bik/4759338158.html

You could part it out and a very nice Serotta would be yours for less than $500.

[RedRider]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC View Post
I'd strongly recommend not getting wrapped up in tubing. Talk to whoever you pick as a builder about what you want to do with the bike, your own body and fit issues, and let the builder worry about the tubes. Its all going to play together anyways -- the geometry, the fit to you the rider and how the tubes work in a frame as a whole -- and that's the more important bit to get right. That's why I tend to think talking to the builder and finding someone who builds the kind of bike you want and feel understands your needs is better than someone who can just weld the latest whiz-bang tubes together.
This.


This.

Yes! It's the chef not just the ingredients.

[John H.]

Actually when used Lobsters come up for sale they sell for a pittance.
I know- I sold two awesome Lobsters in the last couple years. I recall having to dance to get $800 or so for frame/fork/king headset.

Rock Lobster

[staggerwing]

Blind test by the guy that used to own Torelli, 8 identical steel frames, different tube sets. Result was that tubes really don't make that much difference, mid to high end steel tubesets so....Columbus, TT, Deda, Reynolds... Modern steel bicycle tubing all nice.

Quick, basic engineering overview on this.

Young's moduls (E), is the material variable that enginerds bash about to describe how "springy" a particular material is. Curious fact is all steels, high strength, low strength, stainless, or carbon, are rather close in modulus (~190-210GPa). On the other hand, yield strength (Sy), which is the maximum stress a particular material can endure yet return to its original shape (ie elastic deformation), can vary by almost an order of magnitude (~175 to over 1600 MPa), depending on alloy, and heat treatment.

What does that mean. If you made 2 frames of identical geometry, and from tubesets of identical diameter and wall thickness, yet one was basic 4130 and the other was some high strength steel, they would behave identically under load. However, a higher strength steel would allow you to make a frame with much thinner wall tubing, which would build lighter. However, if built optimally, it would also deform more, because stress is proportional to deformation, and by definition, a higher strength material can endure more stress. You might find the ride to be more "alive", but from a measurement standpoint, not stiffer. Tubing diameter, butting profiles and tube shaping are significant variables also, but builders are somewhat constrained by what suppliers market.

Listen to those that suggest buying based on the skill, and reputation of an experienced builder, rather than the name on the tubes. There is no magic tubeset.

[DarkStar]

Several pics from this morning's visit to the Marinoni shop. The frame building area, Pepe hiding way in the back, an unpainted 40th anniversary, and frames waiting to be shipped.

[beeatnik]

I don't really know how any of these different steels compares, and I don't think I'll be able to test ride many of them before buying, so I'm hoping that somebody here can chime in with experience. Again, thanks for the info so far. There are some really great options available.

You want a "modern" steel race bike. Which means you want modern, manipulated OS tubing. A Speedvagen will not ride like a new Colnago Master. I have the same contact points (down to the mm) on my Cielo (round True Temper OX Platinum) and my Strong (bi-ovalized True Temper S3). They both fit great and ride like buttah. The Strong feels snappier giving a more direct sense of power transfer. It performs like my CAAD10 but smoother.

[EDS]

You want a "modern" steel race bike. Which means you want modern, manipulated OS tubing. A Speedvagen will not ride like a new Colnago Master. I have the same contact points (down to the mm) on my Cielo (round True Temper OX Platinum) and my Strong (bi-ovalized True Temper S3). They both fit great and ride like buttah. The Strong feels snappier giving a more direct sense of power transfer. It performs like my CAAD10 but smoother.

That description certainly does not make me want a Strong any less than I do now (which is to say it is at the top of my list).

[maxcolumbus]

If you want lugged then try Savine Cycles. Daniel should be able to help you out. He does all custom builds
and should be right on your budget. I bought one that's currently being painted. Columbus Zona tubing and Llewellyn lugs with a MAX fork. He's a great guy to work with.
Hit him up at:
savinecycles@googlemail.com

If you want welded I would look at Wraith, a Stoemper, or Breadwinner for a few bucks more.

Good Luck!!

[jr59]

Oh, and if you want to spend only a $1000 for custom frame and save the $500 for a nicer set of wheels, can think about Curtlo.

Desalvo is able to deliver excellent standard geometry frame at your price point of $1500 as well.


+100

both of these guys make very nice riding bikes

[Ken C]

Steel road frame $1,500. He apprenticed under Carl Strong.

[Adam Eldridge]

Hey Everyone!

Thanks for the discussion and kind words in regards to my character and to the new project launched in May!

This is not an attempt to advertise or to sell but rather a simple personal introduction.

Wraith is more than me. It's Josh the Coater, Bill the Box Maker, Mike the Machinist, Dan the Water Transfer Decal Guru, Courtney at the paint shop and Omar my part part part time helper. It's about supporting local to me business men and women who've dedicated their lives to the craft they practice.

I'm really hoping we can continue to add more made in the USA bikes to the buying channels while supporting a wonderful network of business friends I've met over the last Five years with Stanridge. It can be done!

We're stoked with the response! A lot of you have already visited the site. If you'd like to speak with me directly please kindly give me a jingle on the mobile or shoot me a mail. ;)

Adam
614.406.7678
Adam@wraithfabrication.com

All the Best,
Adam

[Mister Donut]

I would go used for sure.
You can get a top end used frame for that neighborhood. Why get a budget ride?
Just keep your eyes peeled in all the usual spots.

This is good advice. I would add that you should know all your measurement requirements or thereabouts, especially if you consider a secondhand custom. Get the blueprints, and even contact the builder as a reference. They know who and what they built that frame for. Best of luck!

[bcm119]

You live in WI, it seems like a no brainer with a $1500 budget to get a Gunnar. They are really, really nice bikes. Maybe not the hottest or most lusted after on this forum, but that doesn't mean they aren't top of the line bikes. The paint is the only thing that isn't fantastic. If the geometry works for you, Gunnar is very hard to beat.

[oldpotatoe]

You live in WI, it seems like a no brainer with a $1500 budget to get a Gunnar. They are really, really nice bikes. Maybe not the hottest or most lusted after on this forum, but that doesn't mean they aren't top of the line bikes. The paint is the only thing that isn't fantastic. If the geometry works for you, Gunnar is very hard to beat.

And less than $1500 if a stock one works. About $1500 for a custom Gunnar. The paint is better..not the chippy stuff as in the past. Lots of models as well.