OT: Germans Land Probe on Comet

[rounder]

I was listening to CNN this morning and they reported breaking news about a probe that was about to land on a comet 350 million miles away. The probe had been dropped from an orbiter 7 hours before and was in a free fall (not steered). They said it had probably already landed a half hour before, if it landed at all, but they space center would not get a signal for another 30 minutes because it was so far away. Upon landing, the probe was to shoot out harpoons to be screwed down so that the probe would be secured to the comet.

They later announced that it landed successfully.

The orbiter was launched 10 years ago! The goal was to be able to analyze samples from the comet that dated back over 4 billion years ago.

Makes riding a bike seem really easy.

[MattTuck]

amazing.

I can't begin to imagine the complexity of the physics for such a operation. Well, I can... newtonian physics, but it sounds incredibly difficult to pull off. And to think, this would be like doing a math problem in 7th grade and then not finding out if you were right until you graduated college.

[MadRocketSci]

All hail Rudy Kalman and the Kalman filter!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/Rudolf_Kalman.jpg/220px-Rudolf_Kalman.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_E._K%C3%A1lm%C3%A1n

http://bilgin.esme.org/portals/0/images/kalman/iteration_steps.gif

Ironic in that I think the Germans thought it was a stupid idea initially....

[FlashUNC]

ESA's Rosetta probe has been a marvel. For perspective, the comet is the size of Central Park.

http://www.esa.int/var/esa/storage/images/esa_multimedia/images/2014/11/rolis_descent_image/15044808-1-eng-GB/ROLIS_descent_image_node_full_image_2.png

[gasman]

So amazingly cool to pull this off. Even my sister at NASA was excited !
Thanks for the link to Kalman , heard the name but didn't know his significant contributions.

[buck-50]

ESA's Rosetta probe has been a marvel. For perspective, the comet is the size of Central Park.



Actually, it's the size of New York City:

http://i60.tinypic.com/aw6zqf.jpg

[Cicli]

Well come on 'Merica.

What are we gonna do?

[slidey]

Well come on 'Merica.

What are we gonna do?

Tap Merkel and, ESA Chief's phone. There, that ought to solve everything!

[Mr. Pink]

Actually, it's the size of New York City:

http://i60.tinypic.com/aw6zqf.jpg

That would make for some interesting MTB right out of the office.

[Louis]

Does space exploration make US fat-cats rich? If not, what's the purpose? A waste of money.

Shut NASA down.

[OtayBW]

We REALLY need a head-slap smilie around here...:banana:

[malcolm]

Does space exploration make US fat-cats rich? If not, what's the purpose? A waste of money.

Shut NASA down.

Louis I know this is tongue in cheek, but I think at some point in the future people will look back and the US abandoning virtually all official support of basic science research will be seen as the beginning of the end. As an example when the government decided to no longer support the development of the particle accelerator in Waxahachie, Tx all high energy particle research moved to Cern and see whats happened there. This idea our politicians have that there has to be cash value at the end completely ignores the benefit of basic knowledge and the useful things that are developed along the way. How many graduate level physicists, chemists and advanced degree engineers do we produced compared to India and other countries? It's appalling.
Rant over and how cool is that landing anything on a comet??

[MattTuck]

Malcolm, we have a new particle accelerator being developed in the US, it is a foot long. http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/193725-the-worlds-most-advanced-particle-accelerator-is-just-12-inches-long-and-sits-on-a-lab-bench-in-the-us


That said, I generally agree. Sequestration has resulted in discretionary budget items (NASA, NIH, DOE, etc) getting squeezed big time as military, entitlement and debt payments get priority. If the trend continues, the government will be in the business of collecting tax revenue for the sole purpose of funding the military, social security benefits, medicare and paying the national debt.

The idea of CapEx in business (also known as investing for the future) is completely lost on policy makers in D.C.

[rnhood]

Maybe some people here are not up to date with news. NASA participated in the Rosetta program. Just because the satellite was not launched from a US pad doesn't mean we have abandoned space and science projects. Since science and space affects us all I think collaborative efforts (like Rosetta) are the best way forward. It makes more economic sense to work together on these projects than for each country pursuing similar missions - which creates duplicity and becomes a very costly approach.

With regards to the current NASA funding or budget, the Republican House gave NASA about $435M more than Obama requested in their 2014 budget. In addition, the NASA budget is something like $17T this year. Their budget is just about as high as its ever been. If you're not satisfied with what NASA is doing, its more likely a management issue - its not a money issue. The Space and science programs are like any other programs, they need to change and align with requirements and expectations. And that is what they are doing. I think change is more difficult for government funded activities though, and that is likely why it might look like we are starving the organization. Reading third rate media outlets will also make it look like we are downsizing and cutting back on NASA. But the fact is the NASA org is changing to align itself with new goals and objectives. This should be a continual process just as in a corporate environment.

The comment about entitlements (MattTuck) is a good point however. If the upward trend continues on this then we will likely see some cutting back in other non essential areas.

[buck-50]

Does space exploration make US fat-cats rich? If not, what's the purpose? A waste of money.

Shut NASA down.

Not to get political, but the incoming head of the Wisconsin Senate said

“Part of the things that we’ve put in our forward agenda ... is to make sure that people who are in the UW system are actually teaching, and they’re not using their time for purposes that don’t directly impact the lives ... of students,” Vos said at the press conference.

He added that he envisions a public education system that produces students going into jobs that benefit Wisconsin’s economy.

“Of course I want research, but I want to have research done in a way that focuses on growing our economy, not on, you know, ancient mating habits of whatever,”

Pretty sure we're seeing the next line of attack on science by conservatives here- science should only study things that make products. Of course, the state doesn't actually control who gets grants for what and the state would actually have to increase funding for the university system to gain that control...

[Mr. Pink]

We're lucky that the Chinese are only able to copy us, and not invent things.

[sg8357]

The Germans have just taken the high ground of space.

Shouldn't we be worried ?

Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Komet!!

[Gsinill]

ESA reports malfunction of the Philae harpoons (link (http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/weltall/rosetta-mission-philae-ist-sicher-gelandet-a-1002565.html))

The Germans have just taken the high ground of space.

Shouldn't we be worried ?

Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Komet!!

[oldpotatoe]

Did the harpoons fire securing it to the comet?, Heard they had not.

[FlashUNC]

The harpoons not firing is not good...

[MattTuck]

If the harpoons didn't fire, perhaps a better name for the probe would be Ishmael....

[PQJ]

Zoze Germans are zo krafty. I like.

[Louis]

If the harpoons didn't fire, perhaps a better name for the probe would be Ishmael....

That dude HM could write:

Lord save me, thinks I, that must be the harpooneer, the infernal head-peddler. But I lay perfectly still, and resolved not to say a word till spoken to. Holding a light in one hand, and that identical New Zealand head in the other, the stranger entered the room, and without looking towards the bed, placed his candle a good way off from me on the floor in one corner, and then began working away at the knotted cords of the large bag I before spoke of as being in the room. I was all eagerness to see his face, but he kept it averted for some time while employed in unlacing the bag's mouth. This accomplished, however, he turned round—when, good heavens! what a sight! Such a face! It was of a dark, purplish, yellow colour, here and there stuck over with large blackish looking squares. Yes, it's just as I thought, he's a terrible bedfellow; he's been in a fight, got dreadfully cut, and here he is, just from the surgeon. But at that moment he chanced to turn his face so towards the light, that I plainly saw they could not be sticking-plasters at all, those black squares on his cheeks. They were stains of some sort or other. At first I knew not what to make of this; but soon an inkling of the truth occurred to me. I remembered a story of a white man—a whaleman too—who, falling among the cannibals, had been tattooed by them. I concluded that this harpooneer, in the course of his distant voyages, must have met with a similar adventure. And what is it, thought I, after all! It's only his outside; a man can be honest in any sort of skin. But then, what to make of his unearthly complexion, that part of it, I mean, lying round about, and completely independent of the squares of tattooing. To be sure, it might be nothing but a good coat of tropical tanning; but I never heard of a hot sun's tanning a white man into a purplish yellow one. However, I had never been in the South Seas; and perhaps the sun there produced these extraordinary effects upon the skin. Now, while all these ideas were passing through me like lightning, this harpooneer never noticed me at all. But, after some difficulty having opened his bag, he commenced fumbling in it, and presently pulled out a sort of tomahawk, and a seal-skin wallet with the hair on. Placing these on the old chest in the middle of the room, he then took the New Zealand head—a ghastly thing enough—and crammed it down into the bag. He now took off his hat—a new beaver hat—when I came nigh singing out with fresh surprise. There was no hair on his head—none to speak of at least—nothing but a small scalp-knot twisted up on his forehead. His bald purplish head now looked for all the world like a mildewed skull. Had not the stranger stood between me and the door, I would have bolted out of it quicker than ever I bolted a dinner.

[goonster]

The idea of CapEx in business (also known as investing for the future) is completely lost on policy makers in D.C.
Well . . . the concept is rapidly rediscovered when the future is to be invested in your district. ;)

I'd also like to point out that CapEx is not what it used to be in the private sector either. The era of Bell Labs and PARC is long gone and thoroughly dead. The ROI has to be low-risk and in the near to medium term. Innovation is viewed more and more as a commodity. When you run out of your own ideas, buy a startup.

[avalonracing]

Not to get political, but the incoming head of the Wisconsin Senate said



He added that he envisions a public education system that produces students going into jobs that benefit Wisconsin’s economy.

“Of course I want research, but I want to have research done in a way that focuses on growing our economy, not on, you know, ancient mating habits of whatever,”



And of course any research or findings that does not support economic growth is dismissed.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . that the total cost of the 10 year mission is STILL cheaper than a new Rapha outfit.

BBD

[Bradford]

Let's keep the politics out of this one. It was veering off towards a cliff for a bit.

[pbarry]

That dude HM could write:

Well done, Louis! :beer:

[rounder]

I understand the fact that anything that is done can be viewed politically.

But, I am still having a hard time getting over the fact that this group of people (scientists) actually went about creating a project where they would launch a rocket into space that would send another object into orbit that would 10 years later drop another object into free fall for a period of time so that it would land exactly on a comet 350 million miles away travelling at 41,000 mph so that they could study matter originating over 4 billion years ago. And, except for a couple of glitches, the project went as designed.

[Louis]

Let's keep the politics out of this one. It was veering off towards a cliff for a bit.

Perhaps, but the gravity there is so low ( 1 / 10,000 of an earth G) I don't think that the impact would be a big deal. ;)

[wc1934]

I understand the fact that anything that is done can be viewed politically.

But, I am still having a hard time getting over the fact that this group of people (scientists) actually went about creating a project where they would launch a rocket into space that would send another object into orbit that would 10 years later drop another object into free fall for a period of time so that it would land exactly on a comet 350 million miles away travelling at 41,000 mph so that they could study matter originating over 4 billion years ago. And, except for a couple of glitches, the project went as designed.

so amazing -HOW SMART ARE THESE GUYS/GALS
"Rosetta took off from Earth 10 years ago carrying Philae and traveled 6.4 billion miles before arriving in early August at the comet".

[MattTuck]

so amazing -HOW SMART ARE THESE GUYS/GALS
"Rosetta took off from Earth 10 years ago carrying Philae and traveled 6.4 billion miles before arriving in early August at the comet".

Not sure who this Philae guy is, but his strava KOMs should hold up for a while. :banana:

[Louis]

Not sure who this Philae guy is, but his strava KOMs should hold up for a while. :banana:

That's nothing compared to Voyager 1, currently the man-made object that's the farthest from earth. It will probably continue to hold that title for quite a while.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_1

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/PIA17046_-_Voyager_1_Goes_Interstellar.jpg/1280px-PIA17046_-_Voyager_1_Goes_Interstellar.jpg

[pbarry]

MT, you just had to put this amazing feat into context with our mundane lives??
;)

[martl]

The Germans have just taken the high ground of space.

Shouldn't we be worried ?

Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Komet!!

What high ground, Brce Willis did this 15 years ago.

Well come on 'Merica.

What are we gonna do?

No worries, once the first meteorite with oil in it is discovered, i trust the US of A to be the first liberating it.

[MadRocketSci]

No worries, once the first meteorite with oil in it is discovered, i trust the US of A to be the first liberating it.

I'm assuming you mean asteroid...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSIRIS-REx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploration_Mission_2

[MadRocketSci]

That's nothing compared to Voyager 1, currently the man-made object that's the farthest from earth. It will probably continue to hold that title for quite a while.


You forgot that the Jupiter 2 is somewhere out by Alpha Centauri...

[saab2000]

That's nothing compared to Voyager 1, currently the man-made object that's the farthest from earth. It will probably continue to hold that title for quite a while.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_1

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/PIA17046_-_Voyager_1_Goes_Interstellar.jpg/1280px-PIA17046_-_Voyager_1_Goes_Interstellar.jpg

I wish maps like this contained the disclaimer that they are not to scale and should not be used for navigational purposes.

[Louis]

I wish maps like this contained the disclaimer that they are not to scale and should not be used for navigational purposes.

Yeah, tough to show massive distances and keep everything proportional.

There's a neat something or other out there on the web that allows you to zoom from a sub-atomic scale to a galactic scale. Lots of orders of magnitude difference.

[saab2000]

Yeah, tough to show massive distances and keep everything proportional.

There's a neat something or other out there on the web that allows you to zoom from a sub-atomic scale to a galactic scale. Lots of orders of magnitude difference.

I get that that pic is just an illustration. But we had pictures like that as kids in textbooks because there's no other way and certainly no way to illustrate to scale.

A few years ago I read a book by Bill Bryson which tried to describe the scale of the solar system and basically said that the distances between the planets' orbits isn't even remotely proportional. I don't remember the exact illustration he described but it was eye opening.

I hope this Philae lander is wildly successful in giving us some good facts and science.

[Rada]

With regards to the current NASA funding or budget, the Republican House gave NASA about $435M more than Obama requested in their 2014 budget. In addition, the NASA budget is something like $17T this year. Their budget is just about as high as its ever been.


You added a few extra zeros on to that budget. It's 17B. Also in terms of the percent of the Federal budget going to NASA you would have to go back to 1960 to find it as low.

[FlashUNC]

I get that that pic is just an illustration. But we had pictures like that as kids in textbooks because there's no other way and certainly no way to illustrate to scale.

A few years ago I read a book by Bill Bryson which tried to describe the scale of the solar system and basically said that the distances between the planets' orbits isn't even remotely proportional. I don't remember the exact illustration he described but it was eye opening.

I hope this Philae lander is wildly successful in giving us some good facts and science.

The Space and Rocket Center in Huntsville has a proportional solar system set up to scale on their grounds. The sun is in the center of the museum with the bulk of the planets inside the building not to far from one another. Pluto -- yeah...I know -- is on the far side of the furthest parking lot.

The scale is pretty tremendous, and that's just our solar system.

[MadRocketSci]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/PaleBlueDot.jpg

Seen from about 6 billion kilometers (3.7 billion miles, 40 astronomical units), Earth appears as a tiny dot (the blueish-white speck approximately halfway down the brown band to the right) within the darkness of deep space.

From this distant vantage point, the Earth might not seem of any particular interest. But for us, it's different. Consider again that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity – in all this vastness – there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.

The Earth is the only world known, so far, to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment, the Earth is where we make our stand. It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.

-Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot: A Vision of the Human Future in Space

[Louis]

Blue dots be dammed.

I still prefer my carbon-spewing SUV and coal-fired power plants.

[goonster]

I wish maps like this contained the disclaimer that they are not to scale and should not be used for navigational purposes.

It is to logarithmic scale, no?

[rounder]

Blue dots be dammed.

I still prefer my carbon-spewing SUV and coal-fired power plants.

So. Does the meaningless blue dot theory mean that we can buy more bikes regardless, because it is all meaningless? Just wondering and whether to get in another queue

[Louis]

To quote Prince:

I was dreamin' when I wrote this
Forgive me if it goes astray
But when I woke up this mornin'
Could of sworn it was judgment day

The sky was all purple
There were people runnin' everywhere
Tryin' to run from the destruction
You know I didn't even care

'Cause they say two thousand zero zero
Party over, oops out of time
So tonight I'm gonna party like it's 1999

I was dreamin' when I wrote this
So sue me if I go too fast
But life is just a party
And parties weren't meant to last

War is all around us
My mind says prepare to fight
So if I gotta die
I'm gonna listen to my body tonight

Yeah, they say two thousand zero zero
Party over, oops out of time
So tonight I'm gonna party like it's 1999
Yeah, yeah

Lemme tell ya somethin'
If you didn't come to party
Don't bother knockin' on my door
I got a lion in my pocket
And baby he's ready to roar, yeah yeah

Everybody's got a bomb
We could all die here today, uhh
But before I'll let that happen
I'll dance my life away

They say two thousand zero zero
Party over, oops out of time
We're runnin' outta time
So tonight, we gonna, we gonna (tonight I'm gonna party like it's 1999)

Say it one more time
Two thousand zero zero
Party over, oops out of time
Yeah, yeah
So tonight we gonna, we gonna (tonight I'm gonna party like it's 1999)

1999 (1999)
Don't ya want to go (1999)
Don't ya want to go (1999)
We could all die here today (1999)
I don't want to die
I'd rather dance my life away

[malcolm]

I get that that pic is just an illustration. But we had pictures like that as kids in textbooks because there's no other way and certainly no way to illustrate to scale.

A few years ago I read a book by Bill Bryson which tried to describe the scale of the solar system and basically said that the distances between the planets' orbits isn't even remotely proportional. I don't remember the exact illustration he described but it was eye opening.

I hope this Philae lander is wildly successful in giving us some good facts and science.

I think some of it is we are innately scaled to our environment our brains can't comprehend those sizes/distances. Alpha centauri is what like 4.5 light years away. I can't comprehend the speed of light much less the distance it could travel in 4.5 years.

[zap]

Tap Merkel and, ESA Chief's phone. There, that ought to solve everything!

Merkel is busy finding German military aircraft that can finish a mission.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11130506/Military-failures-stall-German-response-to-Ebola-and-Isil.html

[dancinkozmo]

It is to logarithmic scale, no?

we have a winner :banana: :banana: :banana:

[earlfoss]

America's descent to the level portrayed in "Idiocracy" is coming along nicely.

Good for the Germans!

[brockd15]

This site shows our solar system to scale...pretty interesting.
http://joshworth.com/dev/pixelspace/pixelspace_solarsystem.html

[MadRocketSci]

Louis - just watch the dolphins. If they're suddenly gone then it's time to panic..

[martl]

Merkel is busy finding German military aircraft that can finish a mission.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11130506/Military-failures-stall-German-response-to-Ebola-and-Isil.html

I can see how germany spending less than expected on military fits in with all those Nazi stereotypes :)

[Louis]

Louis - just watch the dolphins. If they're suddenly gone then it's time to panic..

When I was a kid I read "The Day of the Dolphin" and have been communicating with them ever since. I'll let you know what's up when they tell me.

http://www.foggearth.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/day_of_dolphin.jpg

[MattTuck]

on the topic of this probe... it sounds like it was not so successful. They're going to start drilling soon, which could send the probe off the comet for good.

They landed in a shadow apparently, so the solar sail isn't going to be of any use, and the battery will only be good for another day at most.

[Louis]

on the topic of this probe... it sounds like it was not so successful.

They probably won't achieve 100% of their objectives, but all in all, given the feat of landing an object on a comet and communicating with it, I think they're probably pretty happy.

[MattTuck]

They probably won't achieve 100% of their objectives, but all in all, given the feat of landing an object on a comet and communicating with it, I think they're probably pretty happy.

Yes, didn't mean to say it was a failure. Which is kind of how I worded it. They certainly accomplished some amazing things, and I'm sure that the learnings they have from this mission will go into future missions.

[notsew]

They probably won't achieve 100% of their objectives, but all in all, given the feat of landing an object on a comet and communicating with it, I think they're probably pretty happy.

The whole this is really fantastic and amazing, but between the failed harpoons and landing in a shadow, the team must be devastated. I sure would be if I waited 10 years and only got a taste of what could have been. ugh, it bums me out for them.

PS. Love the Melville quote, I'm reading the whale for the first time right now, its such an amazing book!

[Louis]

PS. Love the Melville quote, I'm reading the whale for the first time right now, its such an amazing book!

And then there's this (if you aren't yet tired of whale hunting):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3b/In_the_Heart_of_the_Sea_--_book_cover.jpg/200px-In_the_Heart_of_the_Sea_--_book_cover.jpg

[MadRocketSci]

Philae not two fault tolerant it seems....next time put some wet extendable "tongues" on the lander feet, that ought to stick.

At least rosetta looks to be a complete success...

[FlashUNC]

It sounds as if they're still getting useful data from the lander. Maybe not everything they wanted, but still plenty to study for a good long while.

I don't think the team has anything to ashamed of, personally. Just getting the probe and lander there were incredible feats. Even getting it on the surface was a stunning achievement, whether it was a perfect landing or not.

Between this and NASA dropping a nuclear powered laser tank from a flying hoverboard onto the surface of Mars, I'd say we can still do some pretty cool stuff.

[Louis]

Between this and NASA dropping a nuclear powered laser tank from a flying hoverboard onto the surface of Mars, I'd say we can still do some pretty cool stuff.

I'm still waiting to meet (and marry) 7 of 9. Once that's happened, I'm fine with them shutting down the space program.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/103184/1902216-7of9.jpg

[saab2000]

I'm still waiting to meet (and marry) 7 of 9. Once that's happened, I'm fine with them shutting down the space program.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/103184/1902216-7of9.jpg

I've been hacked. Where did you find that pic of my girlfriend?

[Louis]

I've been hacked. Where did you find that pic of my girlfriend?

On the discarded hard-drives of the "Jack Ryan for Senate" campaign computers. ;)

[Vientomas]

Sorry guys, I have 8 of 9 and 9 of 9.

[dave thompson]

I've been hacked. Where did you find that pic of my girlfriend?

On your Twitter account.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm still waiting to meet (and marry) 7 of 9. Once that's happened, I'm fine with them shutting down the space program.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/103184/1902216-7of9.jpg

otherwise known as 3 of 8...