sort of o/t: Grant's new book "Eat Bacon Don't Jog"

[idrinkwater]

Grant Petersen has written a new book entitled "EAT BACON, DON'T JOG: get strong. get lean. no bull····"

I know that his opinions and writings, as well as the ethos of rivendell goes against the grain, and that talking about food, nutrition, diets, is at most political, at least; touchy. But, I think the things he says are important.

I haven't read the book yet, but plan to, and have no connection to Grant or Rivendell whatsoever.

" Eat Bacon, Don’t Jog shows why we should drop the carbs, embrace fat, and hang up our running shoes, with the latest science to back up its claims. "

I'm interested to see where he places cycling within his health paradigm. Also, how do I vegetarian?

His blog
http://eatbacondontjog.com/

[fiamme red]

I really like Grant, but wish he'd leave off proselytizing the paleo gospel.

[JStonebarger]

What's his argument against running?

[firerescuefin]

Can't wait for his book on "the golf swing" :rolleyes:

[fiamme red]

He left out some important words: "Eat Bacon Don't Jog, Get Fat."

If jogging is bad for you, so is going for a bike ride.

[firerescuefin]

Can't wait for videos of Branch Grantivians comparing the merits of Bacon vs Carrots by attempting to break both by slamming them on the edge of a kitchen table.

[idrinkwater]

If jogging is bad for you, so is going for a bike ride.


This is my question. I ride largely because I don't like going to the gym

[buck-50]

Having spent the last 10-15 years getting the bicycle industry to agree with him (room for bigger tires, room for fenders, 650b, riding on gravel, commuter bikes that aren't just crappy hybrids, racks, baskets, wool, apparently clipless pedals aren't actually better than flats, etc), I'm guessing he's decided his work is done and it's time to move on to regular people.

I'll say this for Grant- as long as you take his audience into consideration, he's usually right.

What I mean is, yeah, if you are a racer or if you have a BMI that's closer to being too low than to being obese, then yeah, Grant's stuff doesn't make a lot of sense and it's kinda stupid.

BUT, if you're an overweight guy who really just wants to be able to ride a bike, a bike that looks like a goddamned bike and won't break if you lean on it funny and you'd like to be able to ride it to work every now and then too and christ, whadya mean I have to wear special shorts, no way am I going out in public in those...

That's when Grant is absolutely awesome.

When I got heavy and according to the skinny racers/sales guys LBS "you should just get a hybrid, dude", Rivendell is what got me back on the road, got me to lose weight and got me able to ride one of those lightweight wonderbikes.

Grant is kind of awesome because he knows how to talk to people who are out of shape. He doesn't tell you about hill repeats and power meters. He says "Hey, the reason you can't ride is because that bike isn't designed for real people" and you say, "Hey, yeah, I'm a real person". And he shows you how to set up a bike that actually fits a "regular person"- handlebars higher than the saddle (he never says "this will keep your legs from hitting your gut every time you pedal" but that's what it prevents). And he says, "hey, regular people who aren't racing don't need to wear lycra," and that's a lot better than saying "you should wear lycra and just get over your body issues"... And you end up riding all the time because someone is telling you to concentrate on having fun instead of getting in shape and you end up getting in shape almost by accident.

[rzthomas]

He left out some important words: "Eat Bacon Don't Jog, Get Fat."

If jogging is bad for you, so is going for a bike ride.

What do people say, 80% of weight loss is in diet, the other 20% is in exercise?

I'd wager that a daily 3-4 miles of quick-paced walking and weight-bearing activities (i.e. doing gardening, chopping wood) would be enough exercise to keep weight off. You might not be athletic, but you'd probably look decent, provided you were eating a diet heavy in vegetables and protein.

I laugh when I hear riding buds talk about how they need to ride 200+ mile weeks to keep the weight off. Sure, that's because you're drinking four beers a night and having pizza for dinner, followed by a big bowl of ice cream ––·you're riding 200+ a week to sustain bad dietary habits. I'm not quite one to judge (i.e. I definitely enjoyed some ice cream last night), but let's be real here.

[CunegoFan]

What's his argument against running?

"Back when I started travelling no one had invented shoes yet, so you don't need any of these newfangled contraptions that are needlessly expensive and complicated. Unlike the reliability of bare feet, a lace might break and leave you stranded. Shoes are only necessary for racers, which is a very small percentage of travellers. We don't think you need to get dressed in a special get-up, like shoes, to simply go from one place to another. Instead we prefer the calm dignity of walking on callused feet hardened by a lifetime of stepping on thorns and sharp rocks."

[beeatnik]

Having spent the last 10-15 years getting the bicycle industry to agree with him (room for bigger tires, room for fenders, 650b, riding on gravel, commuter bikes that aren't just crappy hybrids, racks, baskets, wool, apparently clipless pedals aren't actually better than flats, etc), I'm guessing he's decided his work is done and it's time to move on to regular people.

I'll say this for Grant- as long as you take his audience into consideration, he's usually right.

What I mean is, yeah, if you are a racer or if you have a BMI that's closer to being too low than to being obese, then yeah, Grant's stuff doesn't make a lot of sense and it's kinda stupid.

BUT, if you're an overweight guy who really just wants to be able to ride a bike, a bike that looks like a goddamned bike and won't break if you lean on it funny and you'd like to be able to ride it to work every now and then too and christ, whadya mean I have to wear special shorts, no way am I going out in public in those...

That's when Grant is absolutely awesome.

When I got heavy and according to the skinny racers/sales guys LBS "you should just get a hybrid, dude", Rivendell is what got me back on the road, got me to lose weight and got me able to ride one of those lightweight wonderbikes.

Grant is kind of awesome because he knows how to talk to people who are out of shape. He doesn't tell you about hill repeats and power meters. He says "Hey, the reason you can't ride is because that bike isn't designed for real people" and you say, "Hey, yeah, I'm a real person". And he shows you how to set up a bike that actually fits a "regular person"- handlebars higher than the saddle (he never says "this will keep your legs from hitting your gut every time you pedal" but that's what it prevents). And he says, "hey, regular people who aren't racing don't need to wear lycra," and that's a lot better than saying "you should wear lycra and just get over your body issues"... And you end up riding all the time because someone is telling you to concentrate on having fun instead of getting in shape and you end up getting in shape almost by accident.

buck-50, I like your style.

[Likes2ridefar]

He left out some important words: "Eat Bacon Don't Jog, Get Fat."

If jogging is bad for you, so is going for a bike ride.

while bacon is probably not the best choice, recent study(ies) have shown high fat/minimal carb diets lead to more lean muscle mass and less fat. and that was across the board regardless of exercise.

avocado, veggies, etc not tons of bacon.

[sg8357]

If GP makes you grind you teeth, here is a different book to get to
a similar place, low carb food guidance for endurance athletics.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Art-Science-Carbohydrate-Performance/dp/0983490716

[Mr. Pink]

Having spent the last 10-15 years getting the bicycle industry to agree with him (room for bigger tires, room for fenders, 650b, riding on gravel, commuter bikes that aren't just crappy hybrids, racks, baskets, wool, apparently clipless pedals aren't actually better than flats, etc), I'm guessing he's decided his work is done and it's time to move on to regular people.

I'll say this for Grant- as long as you take his audience into consideration, he's usually right.

What I mean is, yeah, if you are a racer or if you have a BMI that's closer to being too low than to being obese, then yeah, Grant's stuff doesn't make a lot of sense and it's kinda stupid.

BUT, if you're an overweight guy who really just wants to be able to ride a bike, a bike that looks like a goddamned bike and won't break if you lean on it funny and you'd like to be able to ride it to work every now and then too and christ, whadya mean I have to wear special shorts, no way am I going out in public in those...

That's when Grant is absolutely awesome.

When I got heavy and according to the skinny racers/sales guys LBS "you should just get a hybrid, dude", Rivendell is what got me back on the road, got me to lose weight and got me able to ride one of those lightweight wonderbikes.

Grant is kind of awesome because he knows how to talk to people who are out of shape. He doesn't tell you about hill repeats and power meters. He says "Hey, the reason you can't ride is because that bike isn't designed for real people" and you say, "Hey, yeah, I'm a real person". And he shows you how to set up a bike that actually fits a "regular person"- handlebars higher than the saddle (he never says "this will keep your legs from hitting your gut every time you pedal" but that's what it prevents). And he says, "hey, regular people who aren't racing don't need to wear lycra," and that's a lot better than saying "you should wear lycra and just get over your body issues"... And you end up riding all the time because someone is telling you to concentrate on having fun instead of getting in shape and you end up getting in shape almost by accident.


Well, it is a much much bigger market. Smart move. And, as you say in the end, it will do a whole lot more people a whole lot better than marketing to skinny, "serious" bikers. I like that, in a way. I never would have gotten into biking if I met 80% of the type As, and, I'm sorry, a****les I meet today on bikes around some group rides who are always, well, competing with everybody else. I was lucky enough to meet a strong biker who also knew how to have fun and be social on rides and afterwards, and loved to get people like me riding. Baby steps, you know? Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

Btw, I love bacon. Bacon rules.

edit: best bacon in the world: http://www.oscarsadksmokehouse.com/meat/bacon

[beeatnik]

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=133016&highlight=matttuck

[mhespenheide]

I acknowledge the mild irony of writing about this on a bicycling forum...

...and that I'm almost certainly not Grant's target audience, but:



When I'm in shape for it, I don't jog. I run. I don't run to get healthy. I don't run to lose weight. I don't run because other people have told me it's good for me.

I run because running is awesome and primal and spiritual and animalistic. I run because running lets me push my boundaries, because it anchors me in who I am (or who I want to be), and because I like who I am more when I run than when I'm just a spectator. I run because I remember the times when I ran across the Golden Gate Bridge and kept up with cyclists and felt like a predator. I run because running trails is even better than mountain biking singletrack; it's like a roller coaster without a track or car. I run because the feeling of racing a 10k is exhausting and draining and redlining my aerobic threshold for 35-40 minutes seems agonizing (and is), but is also amazingly rewarding.

I run for any number of reasons. But not, ultimately, to get healthy. That's a nice side effect, but not the main reason.

[FlashUNC]

So the tl;dr version:

Grant Petersen discovers paleo and writes a book about said fad diet. That about cover it?

[beeatnik]

I acknowledge the mild irony of writing about this on a bicycling forum...

...and that I'm almost certainly not Grant's target audience, but:



When I'm in shape for it, I don't jog. I run. I don't run to get healthy. I don't run to lose weight. I don't run because other people have told me it's good for me.

I run because running is awesome and primal and spiritual and animalistic. I run because running lets me push my boundaries, because it anchors me in who I am (or who I want to be), and because I like who I am more when I run than when I'm just a spectator. I run because I remember the times when I ran across the Golden Gate Bridge and kept up with cyclists and felt like a predator. I run because running trails is even better than mountain biking singletrack; it's like a roller coaster without a track or car. I run because the feeling of racing a 10k is exhausting and draining and redlining my aerobic threshold for 35-40 minutes seems agonizing (and is), but is also amazingly rewarding.

I run for any number of reasons. But not, ultimately, to get healthy. That's a nice side effect, but not the main reason.

Running hurts.

A lot.

[Louis]

If GP makes you grind you teeth, here is a different book to get to
a similar place, low carb food guidance for endurance athletics.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Art-Science-Carbohydrate-Performance/dp/0983490716

I'm waiting for something like this for vegetarians.

[guido]

It is very healthy to eat the grass fed... :fight:
I'm waiting for something like this for vegetarians.









I insist that all the cows I eat are vegetarians...

[jds108]

buck-50, I like your style.

Seconded!

[jimoots]

My sister lost 30-40kg on a diet that was high fat, low carb, no exercise. Pushes body into ketosis.

Kinda weird, but science backs it up, and science says its 'healthy'.

That said, balanced diet makes more sense to moi.

[Louis]

It is very healthy to eat the grass fed... :fight:

I insist that all the cows I eat are vegetarians...

;)

[oldpotatoe]

I'm old, .1 offa ton and would rather walk than ride a GP bike, thanks. There is a middle group between young, skinny racer dudes and GP-esque riders. Like me and most of the .6 of a century cyclists I know and ride with.

[ptourkin]

I'm not sure he believes all of what he says. It's like academia. You can't publish what has already been said, so contrarian attention-seeking works. He posts pics of oddball employee bikes that follow his principles, but when I've seen the bikes they ride for fun, they have clipless pedals and many other things that Grant says are a sin. He's laughing all the way to the publisher.

[idrinkwater]

Something that he has that people like sinyard don't is honesty. I really believe that he and riv are honest, and I value that. If anyone has seen this video, he talks about their finances. You don't see spesh doing that, not that riv are the anti spesh.
http://vimeo.com/57271334
plus the frames look nice

[mtechnica]

How the F are you supposed to fuel your muscles without carbs??? I doubt there's one cyclist on a heavily carb restricted diet that is actually fast. :rolleyes: Yeah you might be lean but your muscles won't work right so it doesn't matter.

[Louis]

A Google search found this:

Every cell in the body requires a constant supply of energy. Carbohydrates are a critical source of fuel for the brain, heart, muscles and central nervous system. Some diets promote a very low carbohydrate intake for weight loss, but the heath implications are controversial. Diets lacking in carbohydrate will utilize protein and fats as a source of energy. This can lead to long-term complications and increased mortality from diseases of the heart, kidney, gastrointestinal tract and certain types of cancer.

[cinema]

90% of the time, Grant's usually always right. I've been mostly paleo for like 2 years I won't go into it but he's far from wrong. Obligatory gummy worms on long hard rides and beer/ice cream afterwards. And he's seriously interested in helping people deal with the biggest epidemic of our time. I've had the book on preorder since it was announced, looking forward to reading it.

[Mr. Pink]

My sister lost 30-40kg on a diet that was high fat, low carb, no exercise. Pushes body into ketosis.

Kinda weird, but science backs it up, and science says its 'healthy'.

That said, balanced diet makes more sense to moi.

My ex wife lost a lot of weight on a similar diet. What, it was called the Pritkin or something, been around since the 70s. I was impressed. She looked much better without clothes, but, it didn't last. Like us.

[pdxharth]

Thirded!

Wish there was a like button for thoughtful posts like yours.

Seconded!

[Ti Designs]

How the F are you supposed to fuel your muscles without carbs??? I doubt there's one cyclist on a heavily carb restricted diet that is actually fast. :rolleyes: Yeah you might be lean but your muscles won't work right so it doesn't matter.

A few years back I tried a carb restricted diet in the winter while doing base mileage. For me, base mileage rides are long zone 3 rides where I force my body to burn what I'm eating on the ride. Being carb restricted off the bike, but eating carbs on the bike was always an odd feeling because I would feel like I was bonking at the beginning of the ride, but feel much stronger at the end. If nothing else, it gave me a sense of when my body is well fueled...

[dancinkozmo]

I acknowledge the mild irony of writing about this on a bicycling forum...

...and that I'm almost certainly not Grant's target audience, but:



When I'm in shape for it, I don't jog. I run. I don't run to get healthy. I don't run to lose weight. I don't run because other people have told me it's good for me.

I run because running is awesome and primal and spiritual and animalistic. I run because running lets me push my boundaries, because it anchors me in who I am (or who I want to be), and because I like who I am more when I run than when I'm just a spectator. I run because I remember the times when I ran across the Golden Gate Bridge and kept up with cyclists and felt like a predator. I run because running trails is even better than mountain biking singletrack; it's like a roller coaster without a track or car. I run because the feeling of racing a 10k is exhausting and draining and redlining my aerobic threshold for 35-40 minutes seems agonizing (and is), but is also amazingly rewarding.

I run for any number of reasons. But not, ultimately, to get healthy. That's a nice side effect, but not the main reason.

running is boring

[cfox]

90% of the time, Grant's usually always right.

I love this ^^ sentence! ...50% of the time it works every time


Why not run? If the goal is weight loss, for your average fat, busy, overworked 40 something doofus, it's way more time efficient than cycling. No gear except a pair of shoes, safer, etc. Riding is much more fun, but running is a quicker way to lose weight if you are busy.

I've known a dozen or so people who've lost a ton of weight with paleo or atkins, but not a single one has kept it off. We Americans with kids are busy; it takes a lot of discipline to stick with these diets when you are shuttling hungry kids around on a busy Saturday. If you can eat smaller portions, and always eat protein when you eat carbs, you will be on your way to losing weight.

[1X10]

How the F are you supposed to fuel your muscles without carbs??? I doubt there's one cyclist on a heavily carb restricted diet that is actually fast. :rolleyes: Yeah you might be lean but your muscles won't work right so it doesn't matter.

Agreed!!...

I have tried a high fat/protein feed system the past few years and no matter how much I tweaked or tried to monitor, IMHO, it didn't work for myself.

I ate WAAAY too many almonds, cashews, Brasil nuts, seeds, beef, fish, chicken,etc and even though I will admit I didn't really gain much weight, I never put a stitch of muscle mass on and felt like a bag of hammers hit me every other day...

I can see this type of diet working fine if your training regime is all 60min burst/hit training or not uber active,but as soon as I would push LONGER rides back to back the body said WOOOAAAHHHHH...

It basically pushed me to insanity some days and really messed with my sleeping...

Balanced diet is what I like with common sense...and lots of coffee:)

[oldpotatoe]

running is boring

Depends. I loved to run, ran for 10 years..stopped because of injury. If for some reason I couldn't ride, I'd go back to running in an instant..

I loved to run, it was never 'boring', but I don't bore easily. Runs along the boardwalk during blustery days in Va. Bch..along the trail in Ft Story during a quiet snowfall, along the shoreline in Newport, RI....really loved it.

[AngryScientist]

i like variety more than anything.

i like to run, i like to cycle. i have bikes that are set up like skinny tire race machines, fat tired dirt bikes, a tandem, fixie...

in the winter i row a lot...

i dont like the idea of getting pigeon holed into thinking that one particular sport, or bike type, or diet, or whatever is the best and everything else is "bad".

[idrinkwater]

i miss rowing a lot

[coffeecake]

...it's way more time efficient than cycling. No gear except a pair of shoes, safer, etc. Riding is much more fun, but running is a quicker way to lose weight if you are busy.

Completely agree. I have never been lighter than when I was running competitively. Running gets you fit quickly.

[Dave Ferris]

running is boring

At age 61, If I could lose this stage 4 Hallux Rigidus (stiffening of the big toe joint ) and return to my 6 days a week, 40-50 miles a week, with Wed. night track workout, Friday 3 mile Tempo run and Sat. or Sunday long run of 12-18 miles regimen I had going for just under 30 years. Well, I'd be a much more happy and content (not to mention 10 lbs. lighter) guy then I am now - where I'm forced to be on "the bike" a few days a week.

Now to me that's boring. Running ? Never !

[goonster]

He left out some important words: "Eat Bacon Don't Jog, Get Fat."
Obviously, low-carb diets work for many people. I'm convinced by both the literature and personal observation that a proper "paleo" diet will not make you fat.

I won't do it because:
a) I'm not desperate to lose weight
b) I could not stand to eat like that all the time
c) I'm concerned that the jury is still out on some serious long-term risks

If jogging is bad for you, so is going for a bike ride.
From what I read, Grant is not anti-jogging, per se, but he opposes the notion that people who hate it should do it regularly in the erroneous belief that it will remedy a host of health problems caused more by diet than lack of time on a treadmill.

[p nut]

I'm forced to be on "the bike" a few days a week.

Now to me that's boring. Running ? Never !

Im sure the Potts eases that pain! :D

[dancinkozmo]

Now to me that's boring. Running ? Never !


http://www.liveintentionally.org/images/life_is_short.jpg

[buck-50]

I can give you a lot of reasons why people who are really out of shape shouldn't run- running is really, really hard and it has a very high failure rate. Lots of people start, realize it's hard as hell and then figure, "well, if I can't run I might as well give up".

Running when you are fat makes you look and feel ridiculous- you've got stuff jiggling and bouncing every step of the way, reminding you that you are big and fat and gross. It's not inspiring at all.

Unless you are a special kind of weirdo, running is not fun.

I get the idea that you don't focus on exercise and calories but just focus on getting active- for some people that's a challenge right there- just getting out and walking. And after a while, after eating better (any diet that forces you to be conscious of what you are eating will make you lose weight, so pick one and go) and getting out and walking and not driving to get the mail you might actually get to a point where running is actually achievable. And it feels like you got there all by yourself and nothing is better than that.

We've got a huge problem in this country of separating exercise from our daily life. Ditto eating healthy. And we seem to expect people who haven't ever run to do a 5k in 5 weeks because that's what they do on TV.

I'd be willing to bet we could get more people in shape by stopping talking about exercise and starting to push reasonable goals.

there are groups that say you have to walk 10,000 steps a day to be healthy. That's 5 miles. Even with walking my daughter to school, walking at lunch and then walking the dog at night, I can't hit 10,000 steps- that's a crapload of walking. And if that's a fitness goal, it's gonna be one you fail a lot. And goals you fail are goals you give up on. Switch from "hit this number or fail" to "hey man, get out and walk when you can, it's a great stress reliever at work and it's kinda nice" and watch the failure rate drop...

[malcolm]

How the F are you supposed to fuel your muscles without carbs??? I doubt there's one cyclist on a heavily carb restricted diet that is actually fast. :rolleyes: Yeah you might be lean but your muscles won't work right so it doesn't matter.

I think it goes something like this. Your body, liver and muscle can only store about 2-3k of calories as glycogen/carbohydrate. Once you exceed that carbs tend to be converted to fat. Most of the western population eat way more carbohydrates than necessary to replenish their glycogen stores. Carb use during exercise is a different ball of wax, during exercise you have to replace or provide what stored glycogen doesn't or replenish before fully used up. The aforementioned is why carb loading has pretty much been proven useless for years now yet folks still flock to it. Zealots are just that and the truth is almost always somewhere in the center. We eat too many carbs and usually not enough lean protein, naturally occurring fats are not evil, but all in moderation.

[Dave Ferris]

Im sure the Potts eases that pain! :D

Somewhat. But you know what ? If I could make a trade and get back to the level I was at only 10 years ago at age 51, I'd give that Potts away in a NY minute. :cool:

Monday- Firefly
Tuesday-Potts
Wed.-Kish
Thursday-Crumpton
Friday-Ericksen
Sat.- Holland
Sunday-Moots

I could have a different high end bike for every day of the week and still wouldn't be the same buzz and sense of fulfillment I get from running 8 miles a day. :)

[cinema]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/02/health/low-carb-vs-low-fat-diet.html

^ contemporary data as opposed to outdated conjecture.

A lot of people confusing bad carbs with good carbs. Vegetables and fruit have lots of good carbs. The bottom line is a lot of the grains you eat are engineered and not at all what an animal in its natural habitat would encounter and it would cause problems. It causes problems in humans too, but 1: they are used to it, take pepto, a slew of other medicines, anti inflammatory medications, acid reflux medications, etc and 2: their bodies have gotten more used to it. It's why lots of animals have emotional, allergy and general health problems and skin conditions, tons of ····ty grains in their grocery store bag food. It took us a long time to figure that out with our dog. They are carnivores not grain harvesters.

[GRAVELBIKE]

"Back when I started travelling no one had invented shoes yet, so you don't need any of these newfangled contraptions that are needlessly expensive and complicated. Unlike the reliability of bare feet, a lace might break and leave you stranded. Shoes are only necessary for racers, which is a very small percentage of travellers. We don't think you need to get dressed in a special get-up, like shoes, to simply go from one place to another. Instead we prefer the calm dignity of walking on callused feet hardened by a lifetime of stepping on thorns and sharp rocks."

/thread

[raygunner]

Again, Rivendell has time for this and promoting books entitled "Why We Get Fat" but can't sell a good Rivendell branded sportwool jersey.

[ginsued]

Well I'm a cat 1 in Northern California and I definitely restrict my carb intake. Not to the point of Ketosis but definitely less carbs than most people. Low carb before most rides unless I'm doing very hard efforts. In that case I'll add some quinoa or oats to eggs and veg. Lately been riding fasted more too. Then I'll have some carbs at lunch but I keep dinner low carb. Leanest I've ever been and power is the same. Racing better than ever.

How the F are you supposed to fuel your muscles without carbs??? I doubt there's one cyclist on a heavily carb restricted diet that is actually fast. :rolleyes: Yeah you might be lean but your muscles won't work right so it doesn't matter.

[pbarry]

Somewhat. But you know what ? If I could make a trade and get back to the level I was at only 10 years ago at age 51, I'd give that Potts away in a NY minute. :cool:

Monday- Firefly
Tuesday-Potts
Wed.-Kish
Thursday-Crumpton
Friday-Ericksen
Sat.- Holland
Sunday-Moots

I could have a different high end bike for every day of the week and still wouldn't be the same buzz and sense of fulfillment I get from running 8 miles a day. :)

It's a lovely high, when your feet just fly. That feeling is attainable with high mileage fast pace cycling. For me, that requires 200+ miles a week, which I don't have time for, (or, I'm not making the time). Much bigger time investment compared to running at the same level.

Sorry to hear about the toe. At least you ran farther and for more years than most. :beer: