Mag vs Fluid - Direct Drive Trainer Opinions

[eBAUMANN]

So I'm thinking about investing in a direct drive trainer for the winter. I currently own and enjoy my kurt kinetic fluid trainer but I think the Wahoo Kickr is the only fluid direct drive option at the moment? (Its out of my price range)

I was instead looking at some offerings from Jet Black (whisper drive) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul8jZvixAwQ) and CycleOps (9800 silencer), which are both mag trainers.

Thing is, I don't think I've ever used a quality mag trainer before...

Is there a HUGE (noticeable) difference between fluid and mag?

Would I hate a mag trainer if I enjoy the feel of the kurt kinetic?

Any of you guys have any first hand experience with the Jet Black trainers? They look like a pretty nicely put together unit with some great software to complement.

Oh, and finally, if there is another thread already discussing this, please feel free to point me in that direction and kill this one ;)

[AngryScientist]

curious why you want to go to a direct drive trainer if you're happy with the KK? what's the advantage?

[eBAUMANN]

curious why you want to go to a direct drive trainer if you're happy with the KK? what's the advantage?

built in power meter and no more burning through tires/dedicated trainer wheel ;)

[shovelhd]

I haven't ridden all of them but I have found that mag trainers tend to have a more exponential power curve where the fluid trainers are more linear. They feel different.

I only have two bikes so the dedicated trainer wheel with trainer tire works for me. If I had a collection, swapping would get old fast.

Off to ride the KK.

[Alan]

Take a look at his annual trainer article at link below. He does a great job on tech reviews and other very helpful info.

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2014/11/2014-winter-trainer-recommendations.html

I have a KK trainer but would like to step up to one w power capability.

Alan

[ceolwulf]

The Kickr is a magnetic resistance unit, but apparently with excellent road feel.

I think the Elite Turbo Muin (http://www.elite-it.com/en/products/trainers/indoor-trainers/turbo-muin) is the only pure fluid unit? There's also the smart trainer version of it the Real Turbo Muin (http://www.elite-real.com/en/products/real-turbo-muin) which is a hybrid fluid/magnetic.

[eBAUMANN]

The Kickr is a magnetic resistance unit, but apparently with excellent road feel.

good to know! i actually couldn't find any definitive info on that one way or another so thanks for the input!

I guess my real curiosity lies in the Jet Black offerings (which I can get a deal on)...but they aren't available yet...:(

[bjf]

A couple of years ago I bought PowerBeam Pro on ebay, and I have been really happy with it. I like the ability to set resistance/cadence combinations, unlike a regular trainer where the cadence/resistance curve is a given. I also just learned from this thread about the Virtual Trainer and other software, which is going to make it more fun to use. I think I spent about $600 for the open box but unused PowerBeam; well worth it.

[stephenmarklay]

I haven't ridden all of them but I have found that mag trainers tend to have a more exponential power curve where the fluid trainers are more linear. They feel different.

I only have two bikes so the dedicated trainer wheel with trainer tire works for me. If I had a collection, swapping would get old fast.

Off to ride the KK.

Not to discount your experience but it seems like the opposite is actually true. Now maybe you meant to say that.

[stephenmarklay]

I would say that overall my KK fluid does have a more natural "fluid" feel than my mag emotion rollers. Having said that they both work fine.

I am interested in the power control units like Kickr but I am unsure. I kind of like shifting the gears like being on the road. My only experience is at the gym with lifecycle like units that do the resistance thing.

[Charles M]

This is why you want a KICKR...

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/tech-n-spec/wahoo-fitness-kickr-trainer/


Asking what the differences are between Mag and fluid is just to damn general... There are big differences between one Mag and another and several fluid trainers as well.




Here's the deal with the Kickr.

It has A LOT of flywheel mass from two relative flywheels.

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/13-wahoo-kickr-13.jpg

It spins that mass with a BIG gear...

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/13-wahoo-kickr-14.jpg

It has VERY large magnets that don't kill them selves trying to regulate that mass...

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/13-wahoo-kickr-15.jpg

Functionally there is not a more linear OR more rapid changing trainer available right now other than maybe the Velotron or a couple of other gigs costing thousands of dollars. The Kickr is smoother and more road like than any fluid trainer can be because of the mass AND the fact that the resistance is much more finely tunable (where fluid is a fixed resistor).

That combined with the fact that there are more than a dozen programs to drive different training (from entertaining videos to boiled down DATA fields to Live interactive races to GPS logged real courses (your own or others) with elevation (and logged strava segments from guys like pro racers to compete against)...

And these companies are constantly updating things...

This is the trainer you want right now.

No fluid unit gets close to the power tracking consistency and accuracy and VERY few have a fraction of the flexibility.

Oh and you don't wear out a tire using it.

[Peter P.]

[QUOTE=eBAUMANN;1651564]
Is there a HUGE (noticeable) difference between fluid and mag?

The resistance curve of a fluid trainer is as close to real world as you'll get in a trainer. While the resistance of the mag trainer will increase with speed, it doesn't ramp up as exponentially as a fluid trainer. In the end I don't think it matters much; as long as you can shift up to a higher gear when you want more resistance and you don't run out of gears, there should be no problem with a mag trainer supplying sufficient resistance for a satisfying workout.

Would I hate a mag trainer if I enjoy the feel of the kurt kinetic?

No. I had the occasion to compare an inexpensive Blackburn mag trainer with my Kurt Kinetic and was amazed at how well the mag trainer acquitted itself. I almost felt I overspent in buying the Kurt Kinetic and that the Blackburn was a better value.

[Charles M]

I think that's overly general.

What you're saying is only true if there is no adjustment available to either trainer. And then the smoothness / Road feel depends on the mass of the flywheel.

And there are resistance changes (adjustable) available for Fluid and Mag and they work to variable degrees of success depending more on the design than the fact that one is fluid and one is Magnetic. Fluid are generally also never self adjusting where the more expensive ergo trainers with programmed courses or workouts are all self adjusting (but some lack the flywheel weight and mag stregnth to do a good road-like job).

[shovelhd]

Not to discount your experience but it seems like the opposite is actually true. Now maybe you meant to say that.

It's all in how you look at it. The power isn't linear but my RPE ramps up that way. The KK just feels more like the road than any mag trainer I've ridden. However, I have only ridden one direct drive trainer, and that is the Lemond. Hellishly loud, but a very comparable road feel to the KK. The Kickr or Computrainer is in a while 'nother league though. Nothing beats the erg.

[Charles M]

The Kurt with the pro flywheel is awesome (I just gave the test unit I had to a friend).

The Cyclops is not bad for the money...

I wouldnt change from the Kurt unless it was for a quality mag unit that was programmable and had good repeatable power settings...