Campagnolo Record crankset/crankring compatability question.

[pitonpat]

I've got a Campagnolo Record drivetrain, from approximately year 2000. I've considered changing my current 12-25 cassette to a 13-29, but now am also considering as an alternative swapping out my 54/39 chainrings for a compact set and keeping the current cassette.

My question is this: how does one ensure compatibility with alternative chainrings? I'd still be using Campy parts, as I have a line on some good condition Campy Record 50/34 chainrings. Is it simply a matter of determining the bolt circle diameter? If so, where is this noted on my current crankset? I've looked and don't see an appropriate number marked anywhere.

Thanks for the help.

[donevwil]

You current cranks are certainly 135mm bcd and won't accept the 50/34. You'll need a compact crankset with 110mm bcd or Campy's "proprietary" take on 110mm bcd.

Easiest and least expensive bet is to go with a 12-27, 13-29 (if you can still find one) or 12-30 cassette. You'll need a longer chain to accommodate the 29 or 30, but it will work with a standard "short" rear derailleur as long as you avoid big-big and even big-next-to-big cross-chaining.

[Steve in SLO]

You cannot simply swap out standard rings for compact ones. Their BCDs (Bolt Circle Diameters) are different. The smallest you can go with your current crank is 39 In a Campy ring. An aftermarket ring may get you to 38, but that's it.

[rileystylee]

sorry to hijack............

i run campag 10 speed and want to go compact (currently 53/39)
if i buy a compact 11 speed crankset and front dearailleur will it work with my 10 speed cassette, rear derailleur and 10 speed shifters and chain?

thanks in advance

[thirdgenbird]

You really wouldn't even need the front derailleur, just the crankset. The front derailleur may help or it may be the same, depends on what model/year you have.

[oldpotatoe]

sorry to hijack............

i run campag 10 speed and want to go compact (currently 53/39)
if i buy a compact 11 speed crankset and front dearailleur will it work with my 10 speed cassette, rear derailleur and 10 speed shifters and chain?

thanks in advance

Yes it will but you don't need a front der. The 10s one will work fine.

[dsimon]

Okay so because I'm cheap this is what I run campy record 10 short cage rear derallier and a 50/39 and a 12-29 and have had zero issues I belive the chain ring is a black stronlight no issues as far as I can tell the only thing you'll loose is top end speed but the 3 mph I lost In top end I gained an overall higher average.

[gfk_velo]

Several things here:

The 10s short cage RD can't be safely used with the chainring sprocket combination that you are looking at - it doesn't wrap enough chain and avoiding the two combinations suggested by donevwil is all well and good until you "do" grab one of those combinations - at which point you will be looking at a pretty epic bill, in all probability.

The cage design on the 10s short cage RD may & may not allow you to accommodate a 29 bottom cog - it depends very much on the length of the rear hanger on your frame as well as the exact geometry of the hanger. What works on one frame won't necessarily work on others. That's why Campagnolo (like all component manufacturers) make recommendations - they may be conservative but they are based on what will definitely work, if the frame falls within those specifications.

Rileystylee with apologies to oldpotatoe, no, you can't just swap a 10s chainset for an 11 or vice versa - it will "work" but it doesn't work reliably. The same is true of combining a 10s FD with an 11s chainset and vice versa using a 10s or an 11s chain - the shift can be "OK-ish" but you will get occasional episodes of chain drop or chain float. We've seen this a ton of times. Avoid.

HTH
Graeme
Velotech Cycling Ltd - Campagnolo main UK Service Centre

[oldpotatoe]

Several things here:

The 10s short cage RD can't be safely used with the chainring sprocket combination that you are looking at - it doesn't wrap enough chain and avoiding the two combinations suggested by donevwil is all well and good until you "do" grab one of those combinations - at which point you will be looking at a pretty epic bill, in all probability.

The cage design on the 10s short cage RD may & may not allow you to accommodate a 29 bottom cog - it depends very much on the length of the rear hanger on your frame as well as the exact geometry of the hanger. What works on one frame won't necessarily work on others. That's why Campagnolo (like all component manufacturers) make recommendations - they may be conservative but they are based on what will definitely work, if the frame falls within those specifications.

Rileystylee with apologies to oldpotatoe, no, you can't just swap a 10s chainset for an 11 or vice versa - it will "work" but it doesn't work reliably. The same is true of combining a 10s FD with an 11s chainset and vice versa using a 10s or an 11s chain - the shift can be "OK-ish" but you will get occasional episodes of chain drop or chain float. We've seen this a ton of times. Avoid.

HTH
Graeme
Velotech Cycling Ltd - Campagnolo main UK Service Centre

Not trying to argue but I have installed 11s cranks onto many 10s systems, had a 10s Record crank on. 11s Demo Moots for over a year. Compact crank, 12-29, worked fine, no issue with big/big combo, no droop in small/small and no issue with top pulley hitting biggest cog when in small ring. I have also used many 11s front and rear ders on 10s systems. Yes, the rear der over shifts a wee bit but the front works just fine.

Here we go. From the trenches.

[Mark McM]

I'll add my own data point to oldpotatoe's:

I'm currently using a Campagnolo 10spd short cage derailleur on a bike for which I occasionally swap both cassettes and chainrings in a slighter wider range than the OP is asking about. Without touching the chain (i.e not shortening or lengthening), I can change from a 12/23 cassette with a 53/39 crank to a 13/29 cassette with a 52/36 crank, and the derailleur is able to handle the full range in both combinations. The derailleur is at about its maximum ability to take up the chain slack when in the 36-13, but if the OP sticks with a maximum chainring size of 50 (vs. my 53), then by removing a few chain links he should be able to use the 36-12 combination.

In addition, I have also used Campagnolo 11spd cranks in otherwise all 10spd drivetrains, and also not found any problems.

[ultraman6970]

Ultra agrees with potato man.

[oldpotatoe]

Ultra agrees with potato man.

He's a service center do he has to follow the company line. And I agree, for very best results, match everything but putting a 11s crank onto a 10s system works.

[gfk_velo]

He's a service center do he has to follow the company line. And I agree, for very best results, match everything but putting a 11s crank onto a 10s system works.

I don't have to "follow" anybody's "line" but I do have to think who else might turn up a result on a Google search - in terms of a lot of the guys that post here are very competent mechanics, whereas a lot of guys that I run into at Sportifs and races, for example, really aren't but *do* take a lot of examples from posts on the 'net as gospel whilst lacking the wherewithal to implement them, where they'd probably be OK with a bog-standard set up, even assembled fairly shoddily.

I also have to think about the consequences if I / we say "x" will work, and for whatever reason, it doesn't. I've said it a squillion times & now I'll say it again - lots and lots of things "work" but it depends what you mean by "work" and lots and lots of things will work in a particular set of circumstances but may not work in other circumstances - hence component manufacturers making recommendations about frame spec and the like.

I've had to cobble solutions together that "worked" for everyone from a TdF winner to club riders and more guys and girls between than I'd care to think about - but I'd want to be damn sure about what I'd done and test it on alot more than one two or even twenty-two bikes before I went out onto the internet and said "yep, that'll be OK" ...

So it's not about being proscribed by anything other than native caution really - follow the spec, set it up right, check it, check it again & someone else can do the worrying. Take a flyer on something outside of that and if it all goes horribly wrong - you're on your own ...

[choke]

And just to throw my 2 lira in...

Campy 8sp MTB crank, 50/34 rings, 13-29 10sp cassette, short cage Chorus RD. It shifts fine and I have no problem with the 50-29, which even though I know I'm not "supposed" to do, I use often.

[oldpotatoe]

I don't have to "follow" anybody's "line" but I do have to think who else might turn up a result on a Google search - in terms of a lot of the guys that post here are very competent mechanics, whereas a lot of guys that I run into at Sportifs and races, for example, really aren't but *do* take a lot of examples from posts on the 'net as gospel whilst lacking the wherewithal to implement them, where they'd probably be OK with a bog-standard set up, even assembled fairly shoddily.

I also have to think about the consequences if I / we say "x" will work, and for whatever reason, it doesn't. I've said it a squillion times & now I'll say it again - lots and lots of things "work" but it depends what you mean by "work" and lots and lots of things will work in a particular set of circumstances but may not work in other circumstances - hence component manufacturers making recommendations about frame spec and the like.

I've had to cobble solutions together that "worked" for everyone from a TdF winner to club riders and more guys and girls between than I'd care to think about - but I'd want to be damn sure about what I'd done and test it on alot more than one two or even twenty-two bikes before I went out onto the internet and said "yep, that'll be OK" ...

So it's not about being proscribed by anything other than native caution really - follow the spec, set it up right, check it, check it again & someone else can do the worrying. Take a flyer on something outside of that and if it all goes horribly wrong - you're on your own ...

I agree that using what's made to work together is best but manufacturers are conservative and proprietary by definition and the last post was 9 months ago.