OT: Jimmy Page speaks: Jimmy on Jimmy by Jimmy

[fuzzalow]

Jimmy Page has hit the book tour circuit in support of his photo autobiography “Jimmy Page by Jimmy Page”.

http://www.genesis-publications.com/jimmy-page-by-jimmy-page-2014/images/jpwithbook-614px.jpg

I had the enjoyment of seeing Jimmy and hearing him speak about his career at the 92dn Street Y Monday evening. The interview was conducted with Jimmy by the graphic artist Jeff Koons who was not shy about telling Jimmy how big a fan he was of his work. As was the same with most everyone else in attendance that evening. The setting was a simple stage with two chairs and a large screen overhead displaying slides of pictures from the book. The interview took less the form of a Q & A but rather happened much as a conversation between Jimmy and Mr. Koons. As if they were thumbing through pictures with the book laid out on a coffee table in front of them as Jimmy talked through the stories behind each picture. All the while, 900 of the rest of the audience us gazed on in rapt attention.

As this was a reserved ticket event at the 92ndY, word got out fast and tickets sold out quickly. It brought to mind the frenzy from long ago in getting tickets to Led Zeppelin concerts at Madison Square Garden. Even to this day, there is nothing about Jimmy Page/Led Zeppelin that does not stoke enthusiasm for many that was long deemed an upshot of youthful freneticism and dispensed with as a casualty of maturity. That same enthusiasm to be seen in both young and older alike for that was how varied was the audience mix for the evenings event. Rockers in Zep t-shirts and motorcycle jackets; the suit & tie Burberry 'n briefcase contingent, young adults born after Zep disbanded; middle-aged blokes like myself. One Zeppelin father attended with his pre-teen aged daughter – her name was Paige.

Jimmy spoke through a selection of slides that covered all the different staging points of Jimmy's life and musical career: choir boy; young skiffle music guitar player; studio session man (Donovan's 'Hurdy Gurdy Man', The Who's 'Can't Explain', 'Goldfinger' theme, among others), Yardbird, Zeppelin. Every time a song was mentioned by name as to what he worked, wrote or collaborated on, he was interrupted by audience applause. All of the songs and all of the music had lasting and positive influences to the lives of most everyone in the audience. Jimmy, ever the cheeky conversationalist, would purposely not mention a song title “as it makes applause” and continue his story anew. Only to moments later name-drop the song title in his telling of the story with a sidewards glance and a mischievous grin. Much audience laughter and applause.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-11LKcqj32ps/VFg-x_NfPRI/AAAAAAAAAuo/J6ZOw6OtI8M/s640/jimmy-page_92ndStY.jpg

Mr. Page is an intelligent and articulate man who has been to the summit of stardom, money and fame. He seems not to overstate his importance or distract from himself as being but a conduit for the music he creates. As the driving force who only viewed himself as but one of four equals in Led Zeppelin, he is surprisingly modest in all that he has achieved as a musician. But he clearly knows the impact of what he has done. However, he does take special pride in his ability to capture the sound of the four Zeppelin artist members in all its unfettered energy and musical explorations. Compositions that in turn gave him the springboard to the layers and textures of guitars Mr Page was so beholden to and enamoured of. All part of his attack on dual theater fronts using both his guitar army and studio recording techniques and wizardry. He mentions that 'Achilles Last Stand' he views as a crowning example of his “guitar artillery” heard to full effect in the studio.

Only one moment of bittersweet irony from the evenings conversations that I came away with. Jimmy was talking about having a hand in the design of some of his stage costumes and mentioned that he referred to the versions used on particular tours by name. The “Dragon Suit” was the one seen during the 1975 tour and used in the film “The Song Remains the Same”. The white satin stage costume used during the 1977 tour was named ”Poppy”. Mr Page was ostensibly deep in the thrall of heroin addiction during and throughout the 1977 tour and after. And yet decades later he will say the word, speak of the times and recall the places without a hint of regret or a tinge of relief. Not a backwards glance and with nary an afterthought because he lived to tell the tale.

[54ny77]

Awesome review, thanks for posting. That must've been one special event. Only in NYC!

Can you just imagine the life those guys have led (no pun intended)?

I always enjoy the 92nd St. Y "conversations" that are broadcast on t.v. For those in the northeast, it's an awesome program if your cable co. carries it.

[Mr. Pink]

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/jimmy-page-led-zeppelin-was-an-affair-of-the-heart-20141028

[jlwdm]

Glad you enjoyed the event.

Many years ago my wife was a stewardess (not flight attendants yet) for Pan Am and Led Zeppelin was in first class. In those days first class was full of famous people as you did not have everyone flying in private jets. My wife had never heard of Led Zeppelin and asked the group which one of them was "Led."

Jeff

[redir]

I saw him interviews a while back and thought he was surprisingly cogent and seems to have a high intellect. Not actually your archetypical drugs, sex and rock and roller for sure.

[Saint Vitus]

Koons' must be shopping in the boys dept, check out those flood pants!

[93legendti]

Whether you like Zep's music or not, Jimmy Page was unique among rock guitarists. Not surprised he sounds cogent, Zep's music was exceptionally diverse and often complicated. He didn't just show up, the studio was often the 5th band member.

He was a master in the recording studio, ie being able to make a Tele sound like a Les Paul and using innovative miking techniques. He was also a chameleon of sorts, not having a signature sound (ala Slash), instead he used a varied tone...Communication Breakdown, The Rover, Rock and Roll, In The Light, to name a few (and Radioactive, All The King's Men later on). He recorded heavy tracks without resorting to a mush of distortion.

He also used alternate tunings so effectively- ie Kashmir, The Rain Song, In My Time Of Dying, Traveling Riverside Blues.

Finally, his layering technique, building track upon track, but still allowing the song to breathe without turning to a busy mess- ala Ten Years Gone, Song Remains The Same, Achilles Last Stand, Carouselambra.

I'm a fan...

[texbike]

Jimmy Page has hit the book tour circuit in support of his photo autobiography “Jimmy Page by Jimmy Page”.

http://www.genesis-publications.com/jimmy-page-by-jimmy-page-2014/images/jpwithbook-614px.jpg

I had the enjoyment of seeing Jimmy and hearing him speak about his career at the 92dn Street Y Monday evening. The interview was conducted with Jimmy by the graphic artist Jeff Koons who was not shy about telling Jimmy how big a fan he was of his work. As was the same with most everyone else in attendance that evening. The setting was a simple stage with two chairs and a large screen overhead displaying slides of pictures from the book. The interview took less the form of a Q & A but rather happened much as a conversation between Jimmy and Mr. Koons. As if they were thumbing through pictures with the book laid out on a coffee table in front of them as Jimmy talked through the stories behind each picture. All the while, 900 of the rest of the audience us gazed on in rapt attention.

As this was a reserved ticket event at the 92ndY, word got out fast and tickets sold out quickly. It brought to mind the frenzy from long ago in getting tickets to Led Zeppelin concerts at Madison Square Garden. Even to this day, there is nothing about Jimmy Page/Led Zeppelin that does not stoke enthusiasm for many that was long deemed an upshot of youthful freneticism and dispensed with as a casualty of maturity. That same enthusiasm to be seen in both young and older alike for that was how varied was the audience mix for the evenings event. Rockers in Zep t-shirts and motorcycle jackets; the suit & tie Burberry 'n briefcase contingent, young adults born after Zep disbanded; middle-aged blokes like myself. One Zeppelin father attended with his pre-teen aged daughter – her name was Paige.

Jimmy spoke through a selection of slides that covered all the different staging points of Jimmy's life and musical career: choir boy; young skiffle music guitar player; studio session man (Donovan's 'Hurdy Gurdy Man', The Who's 'Can't Explain', 'Goldfinger' theme, among others), Yardbird, Zeppelin. Every time a song was mentioned by name as to what he worked, wrote or collaborated on, he was interrupted by audience applause. All of the songs and all of the music had lasting and positive influences to the lives of most everyone in the audience. Jimmy, ever the cheeky conversationalist, would purposely not mention a song title “as it makes applause” and continue his story anew. Only to moments later name-drop the song title in his telling of the story with a sidewards glance and a mischievous grin. Much audience laughter and applause.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-11LKcqj32ps/VFg-x_NfPRI/AAAAAAAAAuo/J6ZOw6OtI8M/s640/jimmy-page_92ndStY.jpg

Mr. Page is an intelligent and articulate man who has been to the summit of stardom, money and fame. He seems not to overstate his importance or distract from himself as being but a conduit for the music he creates. As the driving force who only viewed himself as but one of four equals in Led Zeppelin, he is surprisingly modest in all that he has achieved as a musician. But he clearly knows the impact of what he has done. However, he does take special pride in his ability to capture the sound of the four Zeppelin artist members in all its unfettered energy and musical explorations. Compositions that in turn gave him the springboard to the layers and textures of guitars Mr Page was so beholden to and enamoured of. All part of his attack on dual theater fronts using both his guitar army and studio recording techniques and wizardry. He mentions that 'Achilles Last Stand' he views as a crowning example of his “guitar artillery” heard to full effect in the studio.

Only one moment of bittersweet irony from the evenings conversations that I came away with. Jimmy was talking about having a hand in the design of some of his stage costumes and mentioned that he referred to the versions used on particular tours by name. The “Dragon Suit” was the one seen during the 1975 tour and used in the film “The Song Remains the Same”. The white satin stage costume used during the 1977 tour was named ”Poppy”. Mr Page was ostensibly deep in the thrall of heroin addiction during and throughout the 1977 tour and after. And yet decades later he will say the word, speak of the times and recall the places without a hint of regret or a tinge of relief. Not a backwards glance and with nary an afterthought because he lived to tell the tale.

FANTASTIC write-up! Thanks!

Zep's music was exceptionally diverse and often complicated.

I'm a fan...

I'm a huge fan as well. I often felt that many of their songs were multiple songs in one that employed that "confounded bridge" to bring them together.

Have you guys heard any of Robert Plant's new album? It sounds fantastic!

Texbike

[54ny77]

I like the quote in one of the referenced links/articles where, when asked would he consider being a producer for others, he said he basically has via Led Zeppelin's albums, which provide all the guidance someone would (or could) need. Great answer.

Whether you like Zep's music or not, Jimmy Page was unique among rock guitarists. Not surprised he sounds cogent, Zep's music was exceptionally diverse and often complicated. He didn't just show up, the studio was often the 5th band member.

He was a master in the recording studio, ie being able to make a Tele sound like a Les Paul and using innovative miking techniques. He was also a chameleon of sorts, not having a signature sound (ala Slash), instead he used a varied tone...Communication Breakdown, The Rover, Rock and Roll, In The Light, to name a few (and Radioactive, All The King's Men later on). He recorded heavy tracks without resorting to a mush of distortion.

He also used alternate tunings so effectively- ie Kashmir, The Rain Song, In My Time Of Dying, Traveling Riverside Blues.

Finally, his layering technique, building track upon track, but still allowing the song to breathe without turning to a busy mess- ala Ten Years Gone, Song Remains The Same, Achilles Last Stand, Carouselambra.

I'm a fan...

[93legendti]

FANTASTIC write-up! Thanks!



I'm a huge fan as well. I often felt that many of their songs were multiple songs in one that employed that "confounded bridge" to bring them together.

Have you guys heard any of Robert Plant's new album? It sounds fantastic!

Texbike

No, not yet. I will check it out.

Slight tangent, there is a very old clip of Plant singing Little Sister with Dave Edmunds and Rockpile backing him up. Very cool.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

A living, breathing and still playing legend.

[bobswire]

My fav band from that period as well as fav guitarist. I heard quite a few live from those days and these guys had no equals. IMO

[93legendti]

I get a kick out of my 11 year old daughter humming the harmonized, ascending break in Achilles Last Stand whenever I play it in the car....the music has held up.

[Mr. Pink]

What an unfortunate choice for an interviewer.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

.......the music has held up.
Plus about one billion. That particular tune is owned by Bonham, but what is often missed is Page's somewhat subtle, but major imprint on it. Rumor has it a lot of bands audition guitarists with that tune. One of my favorite songs from them.

[54ny77]

they all have a sly grin, seem like merry pranksters even as...senior citizens!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7F54QBCA1w

[ChrisG]

And then there's this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ffBRhtWjEQ

Great thread, btw.

[Bob Ross]

Can you just imagine the life those guys have led (no pun intended)?

I only just recently finally sat down to read Hammer Of The Gods, the bio of Zeppelin in their heyday. All I can say is, it's amazing that any of those guys are still alive.


He recorded heavy tracks without resorting to a mush of distortion.

A few years ago I put together a "heavy" playlist of rock tunes, mostly from the 80s and 90s, on a demo CD...it included some Soundgarden, Living Color, Steve Vai, Bad Brains, King Crimson, all tunes with archetypal big loud crunchy chunky guitars. I also included one Led Zeppelin track. In the context of this heavy guitar mix tape, the Zeppelin guitars sounded thin, flaccid, rinky-dink, wimpy...yet at any other time, heard in isolation, that same tune conveys absolutely huge, muscular rock weaponry. Fascinating.

[93legendti]

...



A few years ago I put together a "heavy" playlist of rock tunes, mostly from the 80s and 90s, on a demo CD...it included some Soundgarden, Living Color, Steve Vai, Bad Brains, King Crimson, all tunes with archetypal big loud crunchy chunky guitars. I also included one Led Zeppelin track. In the context of this heavy guitar mix tape, the Zeppelin guitars sounded thin, flaccid, rinky-dink, wimpy...yet at any other time, heard in isolation, that same tune conveys absolutely huge, muscular rock weaponry. Fascinating.

Do you remember which Zep song was on the tape?

The other part of Zep's heavyness was Bonham's drumming, which was massive sounding and almost impossible to replicate, ie When The Levee Breaks...listen to Rock and Roll...the timing is very difficult to get right.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

Do you remember which Zep song was on the tape?

The other part of Zep's heavyness was Bonham's drumming, which was massive sounding and almost impossible to replicate, ie When The Levee Breaks...listen to Rock and Roll...the timing is very difficult to get right.

This. An old friend who was a session drummer told me Bonham's timing was more like a Jazz drummer, didn't just "keep time," and that although everyone thought Bonham was just loud in the mix, and on stage, the "secret" was that Bonham hit very hard, and that it never was effects/studio manipulation/loud amplification/etc. He was just a monster. Rumor has it he actually broke quite a few sticks. Listen to a "quiet" song like Since I've been loving you, Bonham is LOUD, and Page is killing it, imo. Btw, speaking of When The Levee Breaks, I believe it is the most sampled song, ever.

[echelon_john]

If you haven't watched it yet, take an hour and a half and watch "It Might Get Loud," a documentary featuring Jack White, Edge from U2 and Jimmy Page.

Loosely based on their different approaches to guitar, but it really brings a lot more into the story. They talk a lot about Led Zeppelin recording sessions & production, and JP comes across beautifully (and rightly so) as an elder statesman of rock who is supremely confident, but not an egoist or db like so many are. The other guys have good stories, but he's the highlight of the film IMO.

http://vimeo.com/74587704

[93legendti]

if you haven't watched it yet, take an hour and a half and watch "it might get loud," a documentary featuring jack white, edge from u2 and jimmy page.

Loosely based on their different approaches to guitar, but it really brings a lot more into the story. They talk a lot about led zeppelin recording sessions & production, and jp comes across beautifully (and rightly so) as an elder statesman of rock who is supremely confident, but not an egoist or db like so many are. The other guys have good stories, but he's the highlight of the film imo.

http://vimeo.com/74587704
+1.

[Mr. Pink]

If you haven't watched it yet, take an hour and a half and watch "It Might Get Loud," a documentary featuring Jack White, Edge from U2 and Jimmy Page.

Loosely based on their different approaches to guitar, but it really brings a lot more into the story. They talk a lot about Led Zeppelin recording sessions & production, and JP comes across beautifully (and rightly so) as an elder statesman of rock who is supremely confident, but not an egoist or db like so many are. The other guys have good stories, but he's the highlight of the film IMO.

http://vimeo.com/74587704

Yeah, I never knew Jimmy was so influenced by Link Wray, but, after a few seconds of thought, it was like, duh.

Jack White was way over his head on that one.

[fuzzalow]

A few years ago I put together a "heavy" playlist of rock tunes, mostly from the 80s and 90s, on a demo CD...it included some Soundgarden, Living Color, Steve Vai, Bad Brains, King Crimson, all tunes with archetypal big loud crunchy chunky guitars. I also included one Led Zeppelin track. In the context of this heavy guitar mix tape, the Zeppelin guitars sounded thin, flaccid, rinky-dink, wimpy...yet at any other time, heard in isolation, that same tune conveys absolutely huge, muscular rock weaponry. Fascinating.

If you mean that Jimmy's guitar bits were always done within the context of the entire songs sound palette, then I agree. 93legendti made this point earlier also.

In a live concert setting, most of the guitar stuff was also fairly clean, at least by today's standards of guitar tonality. The live guitar tone from "The Song Remains the Same" is IMO great stuff and is consistent with most of Jimmy's live tone through the years. Zep is the most bootlegged concert band of them all except for the Dead who never prohibited recording of their shows. In fairness, these Zeppelin live recordings are decades old and even Jimmy has modernized his sound. The O2 show was much higher gain than the Jimmy of old.

Jimmy spoke of how their concerts got longer and longer, both for how they just kept adding numbers and from the consequence of just going off on improvised tangents when Zeppelin did their shows. Mostly true and for a Page guitar fan, it was some of the most anticipated parts of seeing a Zep show - whether Jimmy was going to be "on" that night. Because when Zep was "on" live, they were untouchable. And even when they were just OK they were pretty good. Those guys were real musicians. It wasn't a canned extravaganza like most "live" concerts are today. Autotuned, canned tracks, a nameless performing band offstage while the headliners prance onstage, etc.

Again, the O2 was a concession to the modern times. In the old days "Since I've Been Loving You" was a launching point for Jimmy to play what he felt like until he decided to come back to the band. That song played at the O2 was given a free space of probably 36 bars. Disappointing for the guitar fans but understandable as most people don't care for endless noodling, say as Clapton and Cream were famous for in their touring heyday. But I never saw Cream live. I did see Zeppelin in 75 and 77.

+1 to "It Might Get Loud" and Jimmy's face doing the air guitar to "Rumble" when it goes to the A chord. Priceless.

[Tom]

The story of the drum sound in that song - apparently they were at some country house and Bonham ordered a new drum kit, it arrived and he was so excited instead of moving out the one he had and putting the new one in he set it up in the front foyer, started playing and the acoustics were so amazing they recorded the tune right there. Probably also the source of that air raid siren echo effect on the harp.

Plant was a genius, too. I so want to see the Band of Joy if they ever play out anywhere near where I happen to be at the time.

[93legendti]

The house is called Headley Grange.

If the walls could talk:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headley_Grange

[malcolm]

Love Zepplin. They were my favorite growing up and remain one of my favs today. I was lucky enough to see them twice in the 70s. The thing I find interesting is the transition from edge music of the day, "listen to that and you'll go to hell" to mainstream, selling cadillacs and the other places zep music and riffs show up. My kids 12 and 14 listen to it often and have zep T-shirts.
I think this will be the Beethoven of our times, the music that is still being played 2-300 years from now. I've seen lots of good musicians and bands come and go and this hand full of bands from the '60s-70s just keeps chugging along with zep at the top. I play guitar, not well but it amazes me how many talented players are out there that you've never heard of. There is a half dozen people I've seen locally that can absolutely destroy a guitar, but they never become Page, Clapton, Beck etc..

As an aside the story of black dog is funny. I don't remember if it was Page or Plant and don't recall the whole story but it was something like this, they were staying at an old run down mansion trying to put together I assume what became IV and there was the big old blind black dog that followed one of them around everywhere and anyway that became the name of the song. Don't remember where I read it but it was a good story if you can turn it up.

[onekgguy]

With all of the Led Zeppelin knowledge being exhibited here I have to ask; what do you all make of the lawsuit (http://time.com/3528555/led-zeppelin-loses-first-round-in-stairway-to-heaven-lawsuit/) that's playing out in PA?

Kevin g

[rwsaunders]

My first ever rock concert was Led Zeppelin at Three Rivers Stadium in Pittsburgh...somewhere in this photo near 2nd base is a 15yo RW enjoying the sound and the aroma.

http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/led-zeppelin/1973/three-rivers-stadium-pittsburgh-pa-3bd600d8.html

[93legendti]

With all of the Led Zeppelin knowledge being exhibited here I have to ask; what do you all make of the lawsuit (http://time.com/3528555/led-zeppelin-loses-first-round-in-stairway-to-heaven-lawsuit/) that's playing out in PA?

Kevin g

I am a Spirit fan, but never heard Taurus before. Just listed on iTunes. I see the similarity with the descending bass line. But that is a motif lifted from minor blues songs. I think Clapton used it on Old Love. I will try to remember the first blues song I heard it on...Buddy Guy, iirc. Maybe it's from All Your Love?

There's only so many notes. I don't think I'd listen to Taurus if it was on the radio.

Otoh, I still goose bumps hearing the drums kick in on Stairway and during the guitar solo.

[Mr. Pink]

With all of the Led Zeppelin knowledge being exhibited here I have to ask; what do you all make of the lawsuit (http://time.com/3528555/led-zeppelin-loses-first-round-in-stairway-to-heaven-lawsuit/) that's playing out in PA?

Kevin g

All the old blues players should rise from the dead and sue Zep and the Stones for every cent they earned.

[Bostic]

Slightly off-topic, but does anyone else think the music used on the "Ask a mechanic" webisodes on velonews sound very much like the intro to Whole Lotta Love?

[54ny77]

That's a slippery slope. But fun billable hour fodder for the IP lawyers. :bike:

Should Led Zeppelin sue Heart for stealing the riff from Achilles Last Stand on Barrcuda?

They're both great songs. Neither could have done what the other did despite the respective similarity.

And there's no way the original blues artists who created so much of the base material could ever have done what anyone like Led Zeppelin, or Elvis for that matter, did with certain of them.

That said, the right thing would have been for the modern artists who've achieved untold success to give the proper credit ($ and otherwise) where credit is due, assuming they did use the original material as a foundation (which in many cases it's obvious it started not from the minds of Page/Plant/et al).

Look at rap/hip hop music, for example. Some 1970's funk basslines and drum beats are the foundation for so much of it, yet those pioneering artists don't get the credit due either.

All the old blues players should rise from the dead and sue Zep and the Stones for every cent they earned.

[93legendti]

I used to think Chuck Berry was a genius, till I heard Tbone Walker...well, they're both geniuses

[Bob Ross]

If you mean that Jimmy's guitar bits were always done within the context of the entire songs sound palette, then I agree. 93legendti made this point earlier also.

What I meant was that we often think of Page's guitar work in Zeppelin as being loud, crunchy, in-your-face, the archetype/Platonic Ideal of eardrum-searing hard rock/heavy metal electric guitar...and yet when audiated side-by-side with other examples of loud, crunchy, in-your-face, eardrum-searing hard rock/heavy metal electric guitar, you realize that Page is only giving the illusion of all that volume & distortion.

[Bob Ross]

Do you remember which Zep song was on the tape?


Something from Houses Of The Holy ...either "The Song Remains The Same" or "Over The Hills & Far Away" I think.

[fuzzalow]

What I meant was that we often think of Page's guitar work in Zeppelin as being loud, crunchy, in-your-face, the archetype/Platonic Ideal of eardrum-searing hard rock/heavy metal electric guitar...and yet when audiated side-by-side with other examples of loud, crunchy, in-your-face, eardrum-searing hard rock/heavy metal electric guitar, you realize that Page is only giving the illusion of all that volume & distortion.

Yeah, Jimmy as a producer would never succumb to something as unoriginal as just running a Marshall dimed out. He was famous for using little practice amps in the studio and making them sound big. It's how the Supro became a scarce amp in the vintage market (Supro & Tele used for the Stairway solo). IMO the style and fashion of the guitar sounds on all of the Zep albums was never high gain guitar distortion sound. I think the fuzz-box sounding guitar solo on "Fool in the Rain" was an early guitar synthesizer.

BTW in the same vein as the Supro, the Layla album was done almost exclusively by Clapton using just the Brownie Strat and a Fender Champ. All amp sounds that were never meant to be distortion amps but sounded that way when turned all the way up. Kinda the happy accident discovered about sound of the Fender Bassman amp which then became the amp circuit copied by Jim Marshall in Great Britain. The rest is history.

But still lots of difference in the amount of gain used as the rock guitar sound progressed. For example rock songs that most people know with guitar parts in them that reflect the sound prevalent at the time they were recorded might be:

Early 70's All Right Now - Free
Late 70's You Really Got Me - Kinks song remade by Van Halen
Mid 80's Welcome to the Jungle - Guns 'n' Roses
And then anything off the charts after that post Marshall JCM800 amp and death metal and all the rest. It's got its place but to me sounds like mush.

I like the quote in one of the referenced links/articles where, when asked would he consider being a producer for others, he said he basically has via Led Zeppelin's albums, which provide all the guidance someone would (or could) need. Great answer.

Ha Ha! There is not a chance Jimmy would ever let his recording techniques be seen or known by anyone. I don't think he has ever produced a record other than for his own project or his own band.

[marciero]

Great review and comments all around.

I think Page created some wonderful guitar tones on record-def not the high-gain thing that came into vogue later. There was plenty of crunch, but you could hear the notes in the chords. He was a master of composition and creating textures in the studio, with clean and distorted tones. Live, it was bare bones, ragged (in a good way) even sloppy sometimes, and not always in a good way.

As was mentioned-he did most solos in the studio on Tele. I read an interview with Joe Walsh a long time ago where he said he thought that Page did the Stairway solo on "the 59 Les Paul that I gave him", suggesting, whether or not the solo was done on that guitar, that he, Joe, was the one who gave Page his signature guitar. That is something I have not heard elsewhere. (So may or may not be true)

Page said playing the Tele was a bit tougher but "there are rewards". I remember hearing that in a recorded interview by the Rolling Stone journalist that was portrayed in "Almost Famous". It takes place on a plane flying between cities after a gig. It's on the internet somewhere. probably youtube

Regarding Page being cagey about studio techniques. I can believe that. I read an interview in Guitar Player in the 70's where he refused, when asked by the interviewer, to reveal his tuning on some song (either Kashmir or Black Mountain Rag).

Regarding Bonham- Page said (70's interview) that "the room exploded" from the first note when they got together. They did Train kept a rollin. He said he had never seen anyone get so much volume out of a kit. Remember that Page was a seasoned studio pro, who in addition to playing with lots of other rock drummers, also played on hundreds of records coming out of England before he formed Zep.

Regarding the Stairway intro and lawsuit. That descending intro line is called a minor "line cliche", it's ubiquitous. (The addition of the line on top, of course, is something else, though I am sure you could find examples of that too-its contrary motion, probably some piano etude somewhere) I am pretty sure that, generally, you can't copyright a chord progression. For the most part, only melodies and lyrics.

[bironi]

All the old blues players should rise from the dead and sue Zep and the Stones for every cent they earned.

Sometimes the good guys are rewarded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPF1BRDT5Bo

BTW, I always thought Zep was frequently over the top.

[93legendti]

What I meant was that we often think of Page's guitar work in Zeppelin as being loud, crunchy, in-your-face, the archetype/Platonic Ideal of eardrum-searing hard rock/heavy metal electric guitar...and yet when audiated side-by-side with other examples of loud, crunchy, in-your-face, eardrum-searing hard rock/heavy metal electric guitar, you realize that Page is only giving the illusion of all that volume & distortion.

+1...which I had put it that way.

In the "It Might Get Loud" film his playing of a Ramble On showed how the juxtaposition of soft and hard created that illusion.

I also think there was a fair amount of "tension" built into the music, so when the harder parts came it added to the heaviness.

Something from Houses Of The Holy ...either "The Song Remains The Same" or "Over The Hills & Far Away" I think.


Great songs...also examples of the soft/hard formula. Page's tone is pretty clean on both songs.

[Louis]

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2013/09/26/t-magazine/26dogdance-williams-slide-G7QM/26dogdance-williams-slide-G7QM-jumbo.jpg

[rustychisel]

With all of the Led Zeppelin knowledge being exhibited here I have to ask; what do you all make of the lawsuit (http://time.com/3528555/led-zeppelin-loses-first-round-in-stairway-to-heaven-lawsuit/) that's playing out in PA?

Kevin g


Been looking at this one quite closely of late, knew it was coming, and contrasting it against many other well known cases. One of interest to you might be the Larrikin Publishing v Men At Work over the use of flute line in Downunder...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-02-04/men-at-work-plundered-kookaburra-riff-court/321624

Many professionals were stunned by the judgement and the size of the award, which was beyond considerable, so never rule out a sympathetic judge, but this ought to be a difficult one for Spirit to win. So say I and a few others I've discussed it with, including a law professor.

[Louis]

Many professionals were stunned by the judgement and the size of the award, which was beyond considerable, so never rule out a sympathetic judge, but this ought to be a difficult one for Spirit to win. So say I and a few others I've discussed it with, including a law professor.

Is there a legal definition of musical plagiarism?

For someone who knows nothing about either copyright law or music (me), I listened to the Spirit music and I can hear similarities, but IMO that's no different from listening to say, two Zydeco songs. You can hear the distinctive relationship between the two songs, but that doesn't mean that one is copying the other.

[rustychisel]

Is there a legal definition of musical plagiarism?

For someone who knows nothing about either copyright law or music (me), I listened to the Spirit music and I can hear similarities, but IMO that's no different from listening to say, two Zydeco songs. You can hear the distinctive relationship between the two songs, but that doesn't mean that one is copying the other.


Under Australian law, not really... too difficult to define, so it's based on case law (precendent) and, stunning idea, I know, common sense. 'If it sounds like a duck, dances like a duck, and the duck had opportunity...'.

It's this last point which might tip against LZ v Spirit. That Page etc had opportunity to see and hear Spirit in action, thus the opportunity to 'lift' a section of the song. Whether the intro constitutes a substantial or defining part of Stairway To Heaven is another major part of the consideration.

I suspect 'no'. In contradistinction, have a look at how many [more] times (sic) Oasis have been taken to the cleaners for grubby rewriting of their favourite 60s tracks.

[onekgguy]

Great review and comments all around.
Regarding the Stairway intro and lawsuit. That descending intro line is called a minor "line cliche", it's ubiquitous. (The addition of the line on top, of course, is something else, though I am sure you could find examples of that too-its contrary motion, probably some piano etude somewhere) I am pretty sure that, generally, you can't copyright a chord progression. For the most part, only melodies and lyrics.

Interesting thoughts from you and others about this. Thanks.

I would imagine that once Stairway to Heaven was released and became as popular as it did, other musicians were less inclined to go anywhere near that chord/note progression. I know zilch about such stuff but find it interesting that after all these years it's just now playing out in court.

Kevin g

[fuzzalow]

What lies ahead musically for Jimmy I am not sure. During his talk he mentioned hopes of plans to projects upcoming, some of which may involve playing live again. Most fans of Jimmy are covetous to new music and would eagerly greet anything new. But, in fairness, this is not the first time this type of tease has enticed our anticipation.

It has always been more arduous to adopt new styles for an instrument and an instrumentalist than the chameleon qualities enjoyed by a vocalist. I say this in overview of the span of work produced by Robert Plant over the long, long sunset of Led Zeppelin to his musical life. I believe the O2 was the last glimpse of brilliant rays of that sun dropping below the horizon for Robert. He has gone well past that era to a vastly different frame of reference to which there cannot be any return. His latest recording "lullaby and... The Ceasless Roar" is a mature and sophisticated work. The greatest beauty of age and worldliness is the ability to make and recognize a point, however subtle, with dignity and without bombast. This is the Robert Plant now in his long arc from Led Zeppelin.

Jimmy might best use a rekindled partnership with Robert as a guideline to different musical horizons. Understandably almost undoable given the weight and burden of expectations. But I think it a viable one as the creative collaboration would be built on respect as equals even if Jimmy's guitar is not quite the creative epicenter to the preponderance as it was before. But never underestimate Jimmy to create a new soundstage venue for revised sonics.

Comment on the plagiarism suite: I don't hear enough of any resemblance to Stairway in the Spirit composition. As a guitar player who knows the chord arpeggios in Stairway, the Spirit tune doesn't duplicate the underlying progression in any substantive way that I can hear. It sounds more like Ritchie Blackmore in his current incarnation as a Renaissance minstrel noodling on a lute.

[Bob Ross]

I think the fuzz-box sounding guitar solo on "Fool in the Rain" was an early guitar synthesizer.

MXR Blue Box, according to whatever industry geek I spoke with about it 30-something years ago...which is plausible, though certainly not authoritative. More fodder for the Page apocrypha machine.

[93legendti]

MXR Blue Box, according to whatever industry geek I spoke with about it 30-something years ago...which is plausible, though certainly not authoritative. More fodder for the Page apocrypha machine.

Yup. I had a Blue Box-fuzz with an octave down blended in. Never could stand the sound of it.

Jimmy and Robert are feuding and Jimmy is said to be working on a new project for touring.

[cfox]

I hope none of you Jimmy fans has a 14 yr old daughter.

[Jeff N.]

The The Mighty Zep several times when they practically lived at the Forum in Los Angeles (Inglewood) back in the 70's. Linda Lovelace introduced them at one concert and Keith Moon sat in with John Bonham during a performance of Moby Dick at another. Unforgettable. -Jeff N.

[fuzzalow]

Jimmy and Robert are feuding and Jimmy is said to be working on a new project for touring.

Feuding? I think it might be more like Jimmy is pouting! Because Jimmy likely brings up the prospect of a Led Zeppelin reunion and Robert doesn't want any part of it.

The possibility of christening HMS Zeppelin II collapsed in dry dock with Robert's "Now and Zen" album. Jimmy's guitar solo in 'Heaven Knows' is very Zeppelin-esque, right up there with the Stairway solo IMO.

For any mortal, having done Zeppelin once is enough for four lifetimes. I am a fan but everyone of us is in a different place than where we were in 1974 through 1980. There's no going back.

[Jeff N.]

Somebody tell that to The Stones. -Jeff N.

[fuzzalow]

Somebody tell that to The Stones. -Jeff N.

If Mick were able to launch his solo career with the same artistic success as Mr. Plant, he would have run so far and so fast away from Keith as he were able that the Stones would been a distant memory before sunset.

Mr. Plant has been able to make good music on his own, either through his own skill, vision or stubbornness. Mick was not stylized enough to stand apart from the Stones.

[54ny77]

Keith Richards probably OD'd 30 years ago. What exists today is a Disney animatronic.

http://ris.fashion.telegraph.co.uk/RichImageService.svc/imagecontent/1/TMG8186521/p/Keith-richards_1779933a.jpg

Somebody tell that to The Stones. -Jeff N.

[Jeff N.]

If Mick were able to launch his solo career with the same artistic success as Mr. Plant, he would have run so far and so fast away from Keith as he were able that the Stones would been a distant memory before sunset.

Mr. Plant has been able to make good music on his own, either through his own skill, vision or stubbornness. Mick was not stylized enough to stand apart from the Stones.If Bob has been successful on his own it sure isn't because of any airplay/promotion....and "good music" is up to interpretation... I have as yet to hear one recent thing from him that I'd download. I'm certain he'll eventually reconsider and reunite for a Zep tour/album when he gets down to his last $10 million or so.

[54ny77]

terrific rain song rendition. no idea when this was--gotta be at least a decade or so ago. page & plant, live, in an more intimate orchestral/acoustic setting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWAFzPoShRw

and i just gotta include this. so good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14GYov0EdyQ

[Mr. Pink]

Keith Richards probably OD'd 30 years ago. What exists today is a Disney animatronic.

http://ris.fashion.telegraph.co.uk/RichImageService.svc/imagecontent/1/TMG8186521/p/Keith-richards_1779933a.jpg


Just listened to Life in the car on my long commute for a few weeks. Highly recommended for men of a certain age. Very entertaining story. Very. What a time. Lucky fellow. He lives on one of my very local rides.

Plant will be on Jules Holland next week/show with his new band.let's not forget him here. Palladium network on your cable. Great show.

[fuzzalow]

If Bob has been successful on his own it sure isn't because of any airplay/promotion....and "good music" is up to interpretation... I have as yet to hear one recent thing from him that I'd download. I'm certain he'll eventually reconsider and reunite for a Zep tour/album when he gets down to his last $10 million or so.

The comparison was between Mr Plant and Mr Jagger's respective solo careers. Mick tried 2 albums worth and threw in the towel. Percy has been making solo records since 1982. This isn't to rank one artist over another but the facts are that one has a viable career as a solo artist and one doesn't. Mick carries on as a front man and CEO to a global entertainment corporation; this is not disparagement on my part as I admire what Sir Mick does.

Success based on airplay & promotion? Taylor Swift then by a landslide. Good music based on what you like or download? Fine by me, all music is good. I take no issue with your disagreement to me.

Either Page or Plant could name their price for a Zeppelin tour. And that tour will never happen and you can guess who will cast the dissenting vote. There's more to life than money for some of the fortunate that can afford to say "no".

[93legendti]

terrific rain song rendition. no idea when this was--gotta be at least a decade or so ago. page & plant, live, in an more intimate orchestral/acoustic setting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWAFzPoShRw

and i just gotta include this. so good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14GYov0EdyQ

Unleaded around 1994...thanks for posting them. I forgot how good they sounded. The eastern accents remind me of Ofra Haza's rendition of a Jerusalem of Gold. And that's a good thing.

[93legendti]

Somebody tell that to The Stones. -Jeff N.

As well as The Eagles, David Bowie and Fleetwood Mac

[josephr]

I only just recently finally sat down to read Hammer Of The Gods, the bio of Zeppelin in their heyday. All I can say is, it's amazing that any of those guys are still alive.




A few years ago I put together a "heavy" playlist of rock tunes, mostly from the 80s and 90s, on a demo CD...it included some Soundgarden, Living Color, Steve Vai, Bad Brains, King Crimson, all tunes with archetypal big loud crunchy chunky guitars. I also included one Led Zeppelin track. In the context of this heavy guitar mix tape, the Zeppelin guitars sounded thin, flaccid, rinky-dink, wimpy...yet at any other time, heard in isolation, that same tune conveys absolutely huge, muscular rock weaponry. Fascinating.

Fool in the Rain?

[54ny77]

crank this up on the trainer this winter. it'll get your heart pumpin'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZZY4mrm--g


Unleaded around 1994...thanks for posting them. I forgot how good they sounded. The eastern accents remind me of Ofra Haza's rendition of a Jerusalem of Gold. And that's a good thing.

[93legendti]

crank this up on the trainer this winter. it'll get your heart pumpin'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZZY4mrm--g

Wow. That was great. Sounded like he was trying to drive the sticks thou the drum heads. Thanks.

[fuzzalow]

Not to belabor the point about a Zep reunion tour never happening but I wanted to throw this quote into the discussion. It was from the time of shortly after the O2 as a comment from Mr. Plant:
On a musical level, we've had sublime moments and there were several on December 10. Bear in mind that we're old guys now and we're not supposed to be hip-shrugging teenage idols. It was pretty ... I'm not sure 'sincere' is the right word. But it was as real as you're going to get. And Jimmy [Page] was on fire at times.As sourced from the Wiki page on the O2-Ahmet Ertegon Benefit Concert. I was checking to see if Zeppelin had 'The Lemon Song' on the O2 set list because I did not think Robert would want to do that number as it would have been out of place for their station in life as self professed "old guys".

Pete Townsend probably said it best in its simplest and most plaintive form:I want to age with some dignity.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

Either Page or Plant could name their price for a Zeppelin tour. And that tour will never happen and you can guess who will cast the dissenting vote. There's more to life than money for some of the fortunate that can afford to say "no".

Rumor has it they were offered HIGH 9 figures (first number a 7!) and they balked. Rumor also was that Plant said point blank in an interview that he cannot (and will not) get to the high registers any more and that would make for a subpar performance, of which he didn't want any part of. As far as working or not being able to work with Page, only two people know the real reason, and it's them.

Fwiw I like some of Jagger's solo stuff. The Stones it is not. And Bill, totally agree, if Mick could be gone, he would be.

Nice try, Mick, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUk_Dqiow0A

[93legendti]

Robert in fine form in 2013

http://youtu.be/OjTeJzvWFy4

[fuzzalow]

robert-plant-turns-down-led-zeppelin-reunion-money.cnn (http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/10/showbiz/music/robert-plant-turns-down-zeppelin-reunion-800-million/index.html?iref=allsearch)

In fairness to Mr. Plant, he has never hinted or teased that he would be willing to do a reunion Zeppelin tour. Quite the opposite. IMO he did the O2 in honor and respect for Ahmet Ertegon; "Ahmet, we did it!" said Plant to the heavens during the O2. It was never about the money.

[Bob Ross]

In fairness to Mr. Plant, he has never hinted or teased that he would be willing to do a reunion Zeppelin tour.

I don't know any of the details, but over on another internet forum I frequent, the whole reason for the buzz about this $8M deal rejection is because allegedly Plant explicitly told Page that he would "make room for Led Zeppelin in 2014" at some earlier (but post-O2) date.